I remember Craig going on about "believing images of Victory" and how he would picture in his mind everything being the way he thought it should be. He explained that if he was driving down the road and saw say an old barn in disrepair, he would imagine it being all fixed up with a new coat of paint. This practice was supposed to build positive believing.
positive believing? or magic thinking and a delusional mind?
Reality is needed for problem solving and boundaries , I know people who think in delusion.. they are frightening no not happening cant be happening wont happen to me so i cant see it or in any way recognize a problem in my life.
Imagination has a number of roles and serves a number of purposes.
It is involved in problem solving many times as well as advancement. As an industrial designer, we use a phrase called "blue sky", in terms of brain storming. In other words, the sky's the limit....think of things that you never imagined before....invent something totally new. Start at a place that isn't even possible yet and then narrow it down to a workable, viable solution. This is how we got from desktops to laptops to tablets to palm computers. In school we worked on wearable computers. Back in the early days, when a single computer filled several rooms, most people wouldn't have thought of a computer you could wear, but somewear along the line, before it was even possible, someone thought of it. Imagined it. It takes people from figuring out how things work to how they could work in another way, a better way, a more efficient way, cost effective, or eronomic way.
It also serves as a means of expression. Somtimes fictionalizing things open people's eyes to ideas and concepts that would otherwise be unthinkable. It is a way to take the abstract and convey it in a more concrete way.
Take those two and put them together and you get what many of us talk about around here. The problems of how things work and why can be explained in more concrete ways. Human like Gods were invented to explain things like lightening, the sea, the wind, rain, and floods, earthquakes, life, death and everything else. One could say that all of those unseen, unvarifiable things we believe in are imagined. Of course that could mean it is all fiction or as in my field it may be something possible that is only impoossible to physically realise at this time. Who knows, someday we might see a wearable computer comprised entirely of body piercings, as I once conceptualized in school. Right now that seems a little out there, but you never know.
You realize that a wearable computer comprised of body piecings is totally doable.. In fact, they have wearable computers now.. Just need to figure out that body piercings thing.. (Don't ask me!!)
Imagination... Gee... I think it's one of those great gifts of God so that I can go about and just imagine and enjoy life without bounds for at least a couple seconds... Yeah, daydreaming.. and imagining.. No evil.. Just pure peaceful state where everything is just plain 'perfect'.. DOH! That milk got spilled.. Darn, and I was almost believing it too.. :)
I just got some great insight on imagination from a friend.
And no, it wasn't Todd.
2 Cor 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Casting down is like planting it or sticking it in the earth to see what becomes of it.
To examine it with thoughtfull reason.
The things that exalt themselves above God will melt away.
So imaginations are not wrong, and to keep this thread in doctrinal, which is where it needs to be. I thought I'd throw this in.
the word translated "imaginations" in 2 cor 10:5 doesn't mean "imagination" as we define it. it's the greek word logismos, which means "reasoning, speculation, thought."
Casting down is like planting it or sticking it in the earth to see what becomes of it.
To examine it with thoughtfull reason.
Do you know how your friend came to this conclusion?
I thought casting down, kathaireo, was to throw down to the extent of destruction. I was also taught Sprawled Out's version for the word imaginations. Destroy every thought and high thing that exhalts itself against the knowledge of God, was what I thought 2 Cor 10:5 was about.
But I learned a lot of wrong stuff, so I'd be interested to hear how casting down is like planting.
I'm sure she got it by the spirit of God working in her. Along with what she understands by common sense. They do work together. And it's an imagination thing too.
Here are some quotes from her, i don't think she would mind
"casting down" is to plant and see what it produces. In other words, anchor it with reason, and see what reason makes of it--wheat or tares
We "cast down" imaginations by securing them with reason....looking for the truth in them.
The discussion came around to that verse and imagination but the person using this verse against us was not understanding much at all.
Catching those thoughts that floating around in the sky of the mind and bring back to the earth of the mind and let grow back to the sky. And see what becomes of it and watch how the mind works with it's ownthoughts, it's own reasoning, it's own imagination.
Whether spiritual or building a computer or anything else.
There so many things that go through the mind all the time. It is the most powerful computer there is-ha!
Even those thoughts and imaginations that seem to be unlikely, and really especially those that seem unlikely are the ones to explore.
What a fun thread, Dancing! Amazing article, Lindy - for me being an old sci-fi buff I get so excited hearing about technology like that!
I think imagination is quite an unfathomable resource our Creator has given us. I think when people design something there's some kind of pairing up of roles in our heads - a dual role relationship of child and adult. The childlike thinking doesn't feel bound by rules - maybe isn't aware of them, or ignores conventions - and just wanders off, exploring, playing, having fun...Then at some point the adult-like thinking kicks in - with the discipline to work out details and specifics, drawing on past experiences, etc. to actually make the dream come true....Utilizing both creative and critical thinking.
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DrtyDzn
I remember Craig going on about "believing images of Victory" and how he would picture in his mind everything being the way he thought it should be. He explained that if he was driving down the road and saw say an old barn in disrepair, he would imagine it being all fixed up with a new coat of paint. This practice was supposed to build positive believing.
Jerry
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pond
positive believing? or magic thinking and a delusional mind?
Reality is needed for problem solving and boundaries , I know people who think in delusion.. they are frightening no not happening cant be happening wont happen to me so i cant see it or in any way recognize a problem in my life.
delusion is a form of abuse.
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dancing
Hi Jerry and pond,
No I wasn't thinking of lcm's slant on it at all.
In fact his use of it is for selfishness imo.
More the reality of what it is, how it's used in every day life and why we use it.
Because we all have it and use it, it's part of our being.
More like what's it's purpose and things like that.
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lindyhopper
Imagination has a number of roles and serves a number of purposes.
It is involved in problem solving many times as well as advancement. As an industrial designer, we use a phrase called "blue sky", in terms of brain storming. In other words, the sky's the limit....think of things that you never imagined before....invent something totally new. Start at a place that isn't even possible yet and then narrow it down to a workable, viable solution. This is how we got from desktops to laptops to tablets to palm computers. In school we worked on wearable computers. Back in the early days, when a single computer filled several rooms, most people wouldn't have thought of a computer you could wear, but somewear along the line, before it was even possible, someone thought of it. Imagined it. It takes people from figuring out how things work to how they could work in another way, a better way, a more efficient way, cost effective, or eronomic way.
It also serves as a means of expression. Somtimes fictionalizing things open people's eyes to ideas and concepts that would otherwise be unthinkable. It is a way to take the abstract and convey it in a more concrete way.
Take those two and put them together and you get what many of us talk about around here. The problems of how things work and why can be explained in more concrete ways. Human like Gods were invented to explain things like lightening, the sea, the wind, rain, and floods, earthquakes, life, death and everything else. One could say that all of those unseen, unvarifiable things we believe in are imagined. Of course that could mean it is all fiction or as in my field it may be something possible that is only impoossible to physically realise at this time. Who knows, someday we might see a wearable computer comprised entirely of body piercings, as I once conceptualized in school. Right now that seems a little out there, but you never know.
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dancing
excellent lindy,
don't know what to say but keep it coming
i'll have some eventually
i'm brainstorming it in the blue sky :)
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TrustAndObey
You realize that a wearable computer comprised of body piecings is totally doable.. In fact, they have wearable computers now.. Just need to figure out that body piercings thing.. (Don't ask me!!)
Imagination... Gee... I think it's one of those great gifts of God so that I can go about and just imagine and enjoy life without bounds for at least a couple seconds... Yeah, daydreaming.. and imagining.. No evil.. Just pure peaceful state where everything is just plain 'perfect'.. DOH! That milk got spilled.. Darn, and I was almost believing it too.. :)
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dancing
I just got some great insight on imagination from a friend.
And no, it wasn't Todd.
2 Cor 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Casting down is like planting it or sticking it in the earth to see what becomes of it.
To examine it with thoughtfull reason.
The things that exalt themselves above God will melt away.
So imaginations are not wrong, and to keep this thread in doctrinal, which is where it needs to be. I thought I'd throw this in.
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sprawled out
the word translated "imaginations" in 2 cor 10:5 doesn't mean "imagination" as we define it. it's the greek word logismos, which means "reasoning, speculation, thought."
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VeganXTC
Do you know how your friend came to this conclusion?
I thought casting down, kathaireo, was to throw down to the extent of destruction. I was also taught Sprawled Out's version for the word imaginations. Destroy every thought and high thing that exhalts itself against the knowledge of God, was what I thought 2 Cor 10:5 was about.
But I learned a lot of wrong stuff, so I'd be interested to hear how casting down is like planting.
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dancing
I'm sure she got it by the spirit of God working in her. Along with what she understands by common sense. They do work together. And it's an imagination thing too.
Here are some quotes from her, i don't think she would mind
The discussion came around to that verse and imagination but the person using this verse against us was not understanding much at all.
And of course more words could be put with hers.
Cause without imagination we couldn't 'see'.
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dancing
the conversation was jumping around quickly
this guy was dodging and changing subjects to not answer for his own reasoning
which is fine but then he turned on us like he was our god or something
it was fun...:) but kind of sad too
sprawled out, i think you got a good handle on it
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dancing
Catching those thoughts that floating around in the sky of the mind and bring back to the earth of the mind and let grow back to the sky. And see what becomes of it and watch how the mind works with it's ownthoughts, it's own reasoning, it's own imagination.
Whether spiritual or building a computer or anything else.
There so many things that go through the mind all the time. It is the most powerful computer there is-ha!
Even those thoughts and imaginations that seem to be unlikely, and really especially those that seem unlikely are the ones to explore.
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lindyhopper
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T-Bone
What a fun thread, Dancing! Amazing article, Lindy - for me being an old sci-fi buff I get so excited hearing about technology like that!
I think imagination is quite an unfathomable resource our Creator has given us. I think when people design something there's some kind of pairing up of roles in our heads - a dual role relationship of child and adult. The childlike thinking doesn't feel bound by rules - maybe isn't aware of them, or ignores conventions - and just wanders off, exploring, playing, having fun...Then at some point the adult-like thinking kicks in - with the discipline to work out details and specifics, drawing on past experiences, etc. to actually make the dream come true....Utilizing both creative and critical thinking.
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dancing
Good insight T-Bone
Great description of a mind working with what we already have.
And coming up with that which we didn't realize we had!
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