Of course, it didn't take too long for Craig, Howard, and Don to recant their admissions of guilt. I wonder if that was because they learned to ignore their consciences or just decided that "their believing" had nothing to do with it.
They always seemd to appear to drink their own koolaid. I used to think they were the epitome of believing until I went on Staff. When Craig declared that we were in "The Prevailing Word", there was excitement of what that actually meant for us and what we would see in our lives.
He received many letters from people filled with excitement. One day he came to lunch and was irritated because he knew his announcements were making people think "The Prevailing Word" was portrayed more highly in our minds than it actually was. He always got up to speak his thoughts about many things at lunch. This particular day he expressed his irriation of what people were expecting and sort of regretting what he promoted.
Ironically that year, many people had died in the ministry: some by car wrecks and health issues. That seemed to irritate him even more since he declared a higher level of the more abundant life. His promotion of believing seemed to be proved wrong even moreso. People get in situations they have no control over and have to live with the consequences of the things in this life sometimes. You think they would have learned that when vpw got cancer.
It is sad that people in TWI today are ostracized when they get cancer. I knew of one person on staff who had gotten it and was drilled on their believing.
I remember even feeling protected at Y2K time because I was prepared and living at HQ. I really believed chaos would happen. I think TWI leaders spent too much time believing conspiracy theories. Then they would teach their belief of conspiracy theories and make it "thus sayeth the Lord".
It was all a vicious circle. The koolaid was and is contaminated, even the top dogs know that.
... But on the other had it seems like they really bought into the stuff they taught, and they deceived themselves in the same way they deceived others. I don't think the presence of sincerity exonerates anyone, but even to this day the board of directors seem to "drink their own kool-aid".
Yeah – it sorta looks that way doesn't it? It hits me like that too, ShortFuse. It got me thinking – what does it take to buy into bs. I read about this term "the theory of cognitive dissonance" in Hasaan's book on combating cults – and copied part of the definition pasted below from Wikipedia:
"Cognitive dissonance is the perception of incompatibility between two cognitions, which can be defined as any element of knowledge, including attitude, emotion, belief, or behavior; in laymen's terms, it is the uncomfortable tension that comes from holding two conflicting thoughts at the same time. The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions. Experiments have attempted to quantify this hypothetical drive."
Maybe that explains why people will talk themselves into something. People don't like experiencing internal dissonance. And perhaps also explains why leaders that are self-deceived come across as so sincere - and therefore good at convincing others. Because they're NOT acting – but really believe the stuff! That would make it tricky for people who are use to spotting a phony by looking for some giveaway clue from body language, voice inflection, etc. If the salesman is truly convinced of his own snake oil – only an independent lab may give you a better idea of what's in the snake oil.
Yep--------Two of the main ingredients of urban legends and cults.
I'm not so sure they bought the whole believing deal.Maybe they knew people were starting to see how they had treated DocVic toward the end and saw an expression of remorse as an effort in damage control.
Funny - that is also pretty close to a definition of Hegellian philosophy, thesis + antithesis = synthesis - one of the foundations of early communist thinking - and to think that the BOT always d@mned communism... I find that ironic even though I hate communicsm for other reasons... like it reminds me too much of TWI.
Another fun phrase for TWI is "cognitive distortion" a somewhat buzzy phrase out here in CA where therapists tell their patients "every thing is relative" using professional sounding phrases. Nothing is either good or bad. It is all in your mind. LOLOLOL
Nothing bad happened in TWI - it was all in our minds - snickers rather loudly.....
"Cognitive dissonance is the perception of incompatibility between two in laymen's terms, it is the uncomfortable tension that comes from holding two conflicting thoughts at the same time. The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions. Experiments have attempted to quantify this hypothetical drive."
Maybe that explains why people will talk themselves into something. People don't like experiencing internal dissonance. And perhaps also explains why leaders that are self-deceived come across as so sincere - and therefore good at convincing others. Because they're NOT acting – but really believe the stuff! That would make it tricky for people who are use to spotting a phony by looking for some giveaway clue from body language, voice inflection, etc. If the salesman is truly convinced of his own snake oil – only an independent lab may give you a better idea of what's in the snake oil.
If only I had photoshop, I could give you a nice pic of the cool-aid guy busting through TWI seal.
I think they all had the red mustache. VPW's original motives seem somewhere between questionable and down right evil from what I read. The account of his last words and Howard's signage on POP as well as many other things point to them all being true believers in the way of TWI. Perhaps he convinced himself over time.
LCM was/is a sociopath and a megalomaniac. When you are like that, you don't just convince people you are right you KNOW you are, you totally believe you are. Perhaps VPW was the same way. LCM learned a lot from him.
The current lot have been sheep from the start. The way TWI is set up is to incourage people to strive for more and more power- one class to the next- corps- more responsibility- more oversite- more more more and more spiritual. That combined with the teaching of "so the ministry not be blamed" has help support their lies and coverups of hurtful things that were incouraged through insane teachings like "genuine spiritual suspicion," believing, no debt, and "spiritual anger."
They believe(d) the stuff. They didn't hurt people because they are all completely evil people. The theology is one that incourages it. As it went on other teachings were added to support wrong doing and cover it up.
LCM was/is a sociopath and a megalomaniac. When you are like that, you don't just convince people you are right you KNOW you are, you totally believe you are. Perhaps VPW was the same way. LCM learned a lot from him.
I ran across an interesting article on Narcissistic Personality Disorder in management, and most of what it said fits the TWI hierarchy to a T. NPDs thrive in such conditions. it's pretty sickening to find out the depths of what that disorder can justify, and it seems to explain the leaders of TWI pretty well. I'd love to see some of them undergo pshyiatric evaluations, that would be a kick... I can only imagine what the spin would be on that.
"Cognitive dissonance is the perception of incompatibility between two cognitions, which can be defined as any element of knowledge, including attitude, emotion, belief, or behavior; in laymen's terms, it is the uncomfortable tension that comes from holding two conflicting thoughts at the same time. The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions. Experiments have attempted to quantify this hypothetical drive."
Cognitive dissonance is also believed to be an element required for creative thinking and problem solving. The intensity, and the amount of time that a person is able to tolerate this cognitive dissonance is supposed to directly correlate with the degree of creativity that a person possesses....manifests....hmmm.....both loaded words...how about: uses.
It is this uncomfortable feeling of cognitive dissonance that leads some to jump to one conclusion or another, or to accept one opinion over another, without completely analyzing all the possibilities, or the alternatives.
We are better able to tolerate smooth, not edgy thoughts or thinking. TWI discouraged this edgy thinking. They were there to grind away the sharp edges of our curiosity, and to polish off our rough questions.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Interesting point, Shortfuse.
Of course, it didn't take too long for Craig, Howard, and Don to recant their admissions of guilt. I wonder if that was because they learned to ignore their consciences or just decided that "their believing" had nothing to do with it.
George
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Nottawayfer
They always seemd to appear to drink their own koolaid. I used to think they were the epitome of believing until I went on Staff. When Craig declared that we were in "The Prevailing Word", there was excitement of what that actually meant for us and what we would see in our lives.
He received many letters from people filled with excitement. One day he came to lunch and was irritated because he knew his announcements were making people think "The Prevailing Word" was portrayed more highly in our minds than it actually was. He always got up to speak his thoughts about many things at lunch. This particular day he expressed his irriation of what people were expecting and sort of regretting what he promoted.
Ironically that year, many people had died in the ministry: some by car wrecks and health issues. That seemed to irritate him even more since he declared a higher level of the more abundant life. His promotion of believing seemed to be proved wrong even moreso. People get in situations they have no control over and have to live with the consequences of the things in this life sometimes. You think they would have learned that when vpw got cancer.
It is sad that people in TWI today are ostracized when they get cancer. I knew of one person on staff who had gotten it and was drilled on their believing.
I remember even feeling protected at Y2K time because I was prepared and living at HQ. I really believed chaos would happen. I think TWI leaders spent too much time believing conspiracy theories. Then they would teach their belief of conspiracy theories and make it "thus sayeth the Lord".
It was all a vicious circle. The koolaid was and is contaminated, even the top dogs know that.
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T-Bone
Yeah – it sorta looks that way doesn't it? It hits me like that too, ShortFuse. It got me thinking – what does it take to buy into bs. I read about this term "the theory of cognitive dissonance" in Hasaan's book on combating cults – and copied part of the definition pasted below from Wikipedia:
"Cognitive dissonance is the perception of incompatibility between two cognitions, which can be defined as any element of knowledge, including attitude, emotion, belief, or behavior; in laymen's terms, it is the uncomfortable tension that comes from holding two conflicting thoughts at the same time. The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions. Experiments have attempted to quantify this hypothetical drive."
Maybe that explains why people will talk themselves into something. People don't like experiencing internal dissonance. And perhaps also explains why leaders that are self-deceived come across as so sincere - and therefore good at convincing others. Because they're NOT acting – but really believe the stuff! That would make it tricky for people who are use to spotting a phony by looking for some giveaway clue from body language, voice inflection, etc. If the salesman is truly convinced of his own snake oil – only an independent lab may give you a better idea of what's in the snake oil.
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waysider
Self deception and sincerity
Yep--------Two of the main ingredients of urban legends and cults.
I'm not so sure they bought the whole believing deal.Maybe they knew people were starting to see how they had treated DocVic toward the end and saw an expression of remorse as an effort in damage control.
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WordWolf
Someone who saw vpw in his final days/hours saw vpw claim he was trying hard to figure out
where he slipped-up so that his believing couldn't save his life.
Perhaps he was maintaining the fiction to the end, and knew it was all a lie.
Personally, I think he'd bought so completely into his own press that he really thought
he could just super-believe and his health would flash back into existence.
As vpw himself said, the salesman who sells you the toothbrush with only one bristle
on it has got to be real sincere if he's going to sell them.
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RumRunner
Funny - that is also pretty close to a definition of Hegellian philosophy, thesis + antithesis = synthesis - one of the foundations of early communist thinking - and to think that the BOT always d@mned communism... I find that ironic even though I hate communicsm for other reasons... like it reminds me too much of TWI.
Another fun phrase for TWI is "cognitive distortion" a somewhat buzzy phrase out here in CA where therapists tell their patients "every thing is relative" using professional sounding phrases. Nothing is either good or bad. It is all in your mind. LOLOLOL
Nothing bad happened in TWI - it was all in our minds - snickers rather loudly.....
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Sushi
I believe the more common term would be 'believing their own BS'.
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lindyhopper
OH YEAH!
If only I had photoshop, I could give you a nice pic of the cool-aid guy busting through TWI seal.
I think they all had the red mustache. VPW's original motives seem somewhere between questionable and down right evil from what I read. The account of his last words and Howard's signage on POP as well as many other things point to them all being true believers in the way of TWI. Perhaps he convinced himself over time.
LCM was/is a sociopath and a megalomaniac. When you are like that, you don't just convince people you are right you KNOW you are, you totally believe you are. Perhaps VPW was the same way. LCM learned a lot from him.
The current lot have been sheep from the start. The way TWI is set up is to incourage people to strive for more and more power- one class to the next- corps- more responsibility- more oversite- more more more and more spiritual. That combined with the teaching of "so the ministry not be blamed" has help support their lies and coverups of hurtful things that were incouraged through insane teachings like "genuine spiritual suspicion," believing, no debt, and "spiritual anger."
They believe(d) the stuff. They didn't hurt people because they are all completely evil people. The theology is one that incourages it. As it went on other teachings were added to support wrong doing and cover it up.
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potato
I ran across an interesting article on Narcissistic Personality Disorder in management, and most of what it said fits the TWI hierarchy to a T. NPDs thrive in such conditions. it's pretty sickening to find out the depths of what that disorder can justify, and it seems to explain the leaders of TWI pretty well. I'd love to see some of them undergo pshyiatric evaluations, that would be a kick... I can only imagine what the spin would be on that.
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wheatland
Cognitive dissonance is also believed to be an element required for creative thinking and problem solving. The intensity, and the amount of time that a person is able to tolerate this cognitive dissonance is supposed to directly correlate with the degree of creativity that a person possesses....manifests....hmmm.....both loaded words...how about: uses.
It is this uncomfortable feeling of cognitive dissonance that leads some to jump to one conclusion or another, or to accept one opinion over another, without completely analyzing all the possibilities, or the alternatives.
We are better able to tolerate smooth, not edgy thoughts or thinking. TWI discouraged this edgy thinking. They were there to grind away the sharp edges of our curiosity, and to polish off our rough questions.
:unsure:
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krys
Damn them!
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