We got in trouble because a few of us decided to do something - maybe it was bbq. Anyway, the small get-together grew and half the branch must have been there. The next fellowship meeting we got in trouble for not inviting our bc's. Then there was a rule enacted that if more than three believers were getting together to do something we had to let the bc know about it.
Belle......you know, I heard that some branch coordinators were throwing down policies like you just described. I refused to do that kinda crap with my branch.
There were ENOUGH rules in twi2 without going about establish MORE!! Amazing!! -->
"i ran many pfal classes and of course our house was cleaned by the wabots! not me! and when i wasn't running a class i was cleaning the lc house!! what an a$$ iwas."
You never cleaned your own house for a class?
I am sorry, but I dont recall anyone ever helpign to clean a house of mine.
'wabots'? are they cheap? lsited in the yellowpages?
You cleaned the LC house? LOL
I know for a fact that I never cleaned a LC home. LOL
Galen, when I was on the Left Coast our TC's wife would always call me to come and visit (we were both homemakers at that time). When I arrived, rather than coffee and a doughnut, she would be waiting with a bucket of soapy water and a rag! She considered it to be granting me a privilege to scrub something in her home for her. She also allowed me to babysit for her sometimes and left a six inch list of chores to accomplish in addition to feeding, bathing and getting her little darlings off to the land of nod!
BTW, I charge $100,000 an hour for that kind of service now!
Galen, you would be surprised at all the stupid, menial things we did in TWI II and III for leaders. Remember, too, that you had it very different being military and moving around all the time.
I watched a little girl sit on the floor with a toothbrush cleaning the sliding glass door tracks on the RC's shower and doorways to the back yard.
I babysat for free more times than I can remember. In addition to babysitting, WG, I also had to fold and put up laundry, clean their bathrooms and other chores like that.
And vacuum, wash the dishes and put them away (with the 10 year old bossing me), do a couple loads of laundry, make sure the right kid got the right bath, each one drank a glass of water right before going to bed, then get yelled at because the youngest wet the bed! When this person had major surgery, I had to go every day and clean her house. The BL's wife called me and said, "dont spend more than half an hour doing it, 45 minutes max!" Then they sat together sipping herbal tea and chatting while I spent two hours cleaning for her. This included washing walls, laundry, making beds, cleaning bathrooms, dusting and vacuuming and getting reproved by the 10 year old (again!) for not doing it quite right.
My ex- she had the perfect (but not on purpose) solution to all this. She broke her arm. Right arm, specifically, the wrist. It was in a cast for MONTHS. NO washing. NO scrubbing. NO or little driving. The Nazi-ette was SO angry about it. Foaming. She had just only begun asking her over to have "fellowship" (cleaning) one with another. "I can't believe it. How long you gonna be in that cast? You've gotta be joking..."
I remember rearend St*cey B*wen R*pke and others used to say that docvic(praise be his name) said that "things are to be used, people are to be loved."
I guess that they mixed that one up, too - "things are to be loved, people are absolutely to be used."
I was thinking to myself, "Erk, I'm glad I never was in that kind of situation" when I remembered that yes, I have been in that situation.
I was head usher for a wedding for a twig leader that was going to occur at the limb home, and it was part of my job to make sure the grounds looked good. This was rearend B*ll Gre*ne's house in Portland, OR. It was up on a hill, and the side of the hill was covered with this trashy vine type of plant. I had to spend a Saturday clearing it all away. Then I had to load it into the back of a pickup truck (can't remember who I borrowed *that* from) and figure out where I could dump it.
And that was just one job of many that I had to do to help the place be ready for the wedding!
This thread is turning into "Stupid Things We Did for Leaders" but that's ok.
Ah the memories. I just remembered how, when the Advanced Class was held in San Diego at San Diego State, I had to drive out to one end of the city (not a small town here) to pick up a barbecue to take all the way back to the limb leaders's home for all the honchos who came to town to have a little get together. (Was I invited? Of course not!)
The thing had ashes in it and when I had to put it sideways in the back of my hatchback, the ashes spilled out all over the trunk. But I was a DOULOS for God and it was a small price to pay for the privilege of SERVING.
Same week of that class, I remember helping to clean the area leaders' home for the arrival of the upper echelon who would be staying there. They kicked out the peon believers who were living in the house so the big honchos could have accomodations.
Oh, man this is all coming back to me now.....I had to do the prayer room and furnish it. So my husband and a friend carted our sofa over there along with other stuff to "decorate" the prayer room. I put a few rugs on the floor as well and also put in two side tables from our living room.
Later, the area leader tells us the sofa isn't quite what they want, so we have to haul it back and they put in a couch that was already there in one of the common rooms. Sorry you didn't like my couch!
And then later some one picked up the rugs I had put down and stuck them in a corner. Sorry you didn't like my rugs!
They furnished the dorms where the hot shots were staying with believers' rugs, lamps, chairs, art work, etc. They looked like some one's plush apartment.
Meanwhile the students stayed in dorm rooms that were furnished like dorm rooms.
Some one asked me to go to one room and bring back a food processor for one of the esteemed leaders. So I brought it to her and she tells me in this condesending matter that I hadn't brought her all the parts. Sorry I didn't know all the parts of a food processor! Maybe I was too POOR from jumping all over the country doing menial jobs to ever AFFORD a food processor, unlike her who lived in nice homes off of TWI's abundance.
When I look back on this, I see so clearly that there was such a blantant heirarchy in TWI.
And we just happily went along with it - until we woke up!
Oh yeah, not to mention the time we had to clean a limb leaders' house in MS. I was up on the roof sweeping off pine needles and there was a wasp nest, and I got attacked and stung. Man, those wasp stings hurt, too!
I remember I could see into the BL's bedroom and there was a pair of panties on the floor! I was shocked! The perfect BL's wife who was so spiritual left a pair of panties on the floor??
A twig of which I was part was involved in a "before the Church" confrontation of a 62 year old woman who had barely just taken PFAL.
I had actually met her and witnessed to her with another guy while door-to-door witnessing. When we met up with her I could tell that she was just lonely and wanted to have some company. She had already expressed that she was already saved. I guess she thought we were trying to get people saved that day.
Her first meeting was a phone hookup with a production from HQ. That was the tacky one where Puke Martinfail was making fat lady jokes. She was offended by him, but she continued to come back. She must have been really lonely because she kept coming to fellowship as long as I called her up. I kept telling the FCs that I always had to call her to get her to come and I didn't think she was really interested in coming. But of course I was encouraged to keep calling. --> "No" doesn't mean "no" in the way until you actually say it, and then it doesn't always mean "NO" then because the bastages will try to talk you out of your "NO".
I left to go take the "new" ACS that Puke Martinfail did for PFAL, and my FCs signed this woman up for the class during that time with a lot of pressure involved I'm sure. I new in my heart of hearts that this woman wasn't ready for the class. Maybe she really wasn't interested, but she seemed to just go along with things. She was too easry. But she also seemed to have "problems". Not normal people every day life problems....my pea brain back then would have called the problems "mental". There was a lot of pressure to get people for this class because it was the LAST PFAL class run in the area.
The FC's wife was a stay-at-home mom, so she would invite this woman over during the day. This woman did not work. She was estranged from her husband, who lived several states away, and she had issues with her family that lived near. Let's say this now, the FC's wife was a bitch. She had a physical issue which kept her from doing the things she wanted to do, and she refused to get surgery to help her situation. She was also dropped from the corps a few years earlier because she didnt marry corps. She was still trying to act like she was corps. She was a complete hot head. I lived with the FCs. She bitched me out once for buying the wrong milk. --> After the woman took the class, she started speaking up about things she saw wrong, and she would argue with the bitchy FC wife.
One day when this woman was over visiting, the 3 year old daughter of the FCs was playing with herself. She was running around with no undies on, and like many curious children was checking things out. This woman was completely shocked to see this and told the FC's wife that the girl shouldn't be doing that.
Well FC's wife told her husband of the things that happened and all of a sudden we were having a fellowship confrontation. It was aweful. The FC told her that his daughter would touch herself wherever and whenever she wanted to. She was told to get her act together or be kicked out of the household. The problem with this is that this woman didn't understand half of what was being said to her because she only had been involved a few months and wasn't familiar with way jargon. She didn't even understand what it was to live up to par as a wayfer. It was terrible, and I've expressed my sorrow to God to even be in the damn room.
The woman ending up continuing to go to fellowship. Why? I think she was just lonley, and she seemed to be clingy to me. It was hard for me because I just didn't want to hang out with a 62 year old. I was 31 and newly divorced. I wanted to start living my single life and moving on from my divorce.
Later that year, I ended up going on Staff. This woman was still going to twig, and the twig was left to take care of her. I went back to visit on a vacation while on Staff and found out this poor woman was a full-time facility for alzheimer's patients. The "mental" thing then rang clear to me. I felt so terrible that this poor woman needed more than she was getting from the twig, and they did as little as possible. They didn't want to kick her completely to the curb because she had taken the class and continued to come to twig, yet she was probably considered a burden.
I really believe getting people to the class was about bringing in money now.
I guess I should have remembered that from the mid-nineties on, every minute of every day was a confrontation session! We got yelled at for so many things it was astounding:
BC sets up a "witnessing night" at the park. He and some of the younger guys get into a basketball game, some of us parents took our kids to the playground, and some of the singles just cruised around. After the designated time to meet, we all meet back at the basketball courts where BC is still playing basketball and not really talking to anyone. The rest of us amble over to watch the game. BC stops in the middle of a play and roars at me to "get my people together" (I was a twig coordinator) and speak the Word to some of those gathered around and stop being slothful.
...or how about the time when BC is reading from his bible during a teaching and stops, looking at us expectantly to chime in with the next word. By the time we all figure out what we are suposed to do, he is screaming at the top of his lungs that we are "dead".
...same BC has asked me to be responsible for setting up a room for fellowship at his house while he is running a WayAP class at another location. He tells me that since the room wasn't being used for anything else at the time, I could leave it set up and just come over a few minutes early and dust.
Twig night, about an hour before it was to start he calls me up, screaming at my "slothfullness" and inattention to detail. The room is not set up! Perplexed, I drive over to find that all the furniture is pushed against the walls. He is screaming again, demanding to know when I was going to set up the room for a fellowship that was to start (by then) in about a half an hour.
I reminded him that he told me that I could leave the room set up, and he admitted that he forgot, and had moved everything around so that he and his wife could exercise! No apology though, and later an explanation that if I had been spiritually sharp I would have showed up earlier and caught the problem myself!
I find it amazing that you guys stuck with TWI as long as you did! Whenever our branch was called together to prepare a house for a class, or whatever, the BC and his wife always pitched in. I did help clean a yard for a friend of mine for his wedding (I, too, was the best man); but I would have done that, TWI or not.
On the other hand, stupid things said to me in confrontation could fill a book. It was like a Bill Cosby routine: "Keep silent! ANSWER ME!!!"
"Galen, when I was on the Left Coast our TC's wife would always call me to come and visit (we were both homemakers at that time). When I arrived, rather than coffee and a doughnut, she would be waiting with a bucket of soapy water and a rag! She considered it to be granting me a privilege to scrub something in her home for her. She also allowed me to babysit for her sometimes and left a six inch list of chores to accomplish in addition to feeding, bathing and getting her little darlings off to the land of nod! "
What crack-smoking
I truly dont recall ever doing such things for anyone else' home as has been listed here on this thread.
So I asked Bonnie. She said that once while I was underwater, and she was in Bremerton Washington, there was a period where she did not maintain the twig, and she was visiting with a 'near-by' twig-coordinator in Port Orchard. Tina Meekin I think her name was. Well the BC's wife was there and the conversation did turn to the area twigs taking turns in a rotation to go over to Tacoma to the BC's home to clean it for her each week. Apparently Bonnie said whatever her immediate thought was out-loud [knowing her was was likely either: "Is the Branch Coord smoking crack, thinking that we are his slaves?" Or something fairly close to that]. Bonnie says that after whatever she said, the other ladies shifted topics. and for the remainder of the time that we were stationed there, such topic was never again brought up in her presence. Though I do seem to think that Tina did take to inviting Bonnie over, more frequently during the later era of our time stationed at Bremerton and then over to Bangor [pronounced Bang-Her, unlike the Bangor in Maine which is pronounced Bang-Gor [long O]] :-)
I think that Tina may have seen Bonnie as a 'sheild' to ward off her twig from having to do the slave routine at the BC home. That BC, we can't recall his name. We did know a 'Steve Strict' that was in Fresno 'with' us, he did have a live-in female slave [she went to college with me], the BC in Tacoma's name sounded like 'Strict' but it was something different. Sorry I cant recall his last name. I know that later when it was announced that a spy had found a book from Cummins in my closet, the BC was not capable of talking to us about it, and had to refer it to Mosquido, to 'confront' us about it.
Bonnie did remind me that we did routinely help people move. We commonly brought over a few cases of beer or a keg, and a few pizzas and had invited over as many beleivers and sailors to help load a moving van and clean the property, or in the case of someone moving into the area, they wold help cleaning the house and unloading the van.
All the PFAL classes and others [Renewed mind, harmony of the Gospels, Intermediate, Basic Keys to Research, Witnessing and Undershepherding, etc] we cleaned and organized our home ourselves.
It simply never occured to us to employ slave labor. That would be un-duly using your position in the body, to intimidate compliance from the congregation.
:-)
Belle, WG, Hamm, Excath-
See I guess that many of us did experience the same ministry, after all.
Outie-
I took the Advanced Class in San Diego, thank you for you efforts.
It never occured to me that 'big wigs' coming in, would have expected such service. I am sorry if I in anyway contributed to the burden.
Def-
You got booted from your residence whenever 'big wigs' came to town?
Ugh, it is amazing that anyone thought wuch was 'ministering'.
Oakspear-
"I reminded him that he told me that I could leave the room set up, and he admitted that he forgot, and had moved everything around so that he and his wife could exercise! No apology though, and later an explanation that if I had been spiritually sharp I would have showed up earlier and caught the problem myself!"
I know from experience that commonly it helps to remind people to thank me, ie "Yes I do except your apology for mis-takenly yelling at me" and turning my back and walking away.
A la Prochaine-
"... your summation of leadership and their arrogant ways was priceless!!!"
It is nice to read about it when it is coming from someone else. :-)
When I point it out, I apparently offend many posters. But yes, Corpse leadership was often very arrogant.
It IS amazing George. About 98% of this stuff here is news to me. Unimaginable. Some of it is even illegal.
What I find most interesting is how this stuff If it were a movie, it could be called, "Revenge of the Wannabe" Starring L. Craig Martindale. The trailer would say, "Craig Martindale IS the wannabe."
You probably all know by now how Craig REALLY wanted to be a pro football player.
Here's an interesting parallel. I was reminded of this today as I was watching "Friday Night Lights" with my boys (decent flick BTW). For those who've never seen it, its based on a true story about a Texas High School football team's quest to win the 5A (the biggest schools), state championship.
The 5A level in Texas is as big time as HS football gets. In a few other states, like California, Pennsylvania, Florida & Ohio, the top players are a "lock" at NCAA Division 1 colleges and a "good bet" at having a shot at the NFL. Of course there are other HS guys accross the entire country that have a legitimate shot at "the league," but those 5 states get the lion's share of attention from higher level scouts. Oklahoma is arguably among the top five. I'm from PA. (We're the BEST & that's all there is to it. Each of the other states says exactly what I just did. Hey> It IS about competition... :)-->)
Craig was a decent player in HS. He felt he had a legitimate shot. But once he moved up a level to Division 1 NCAA he couldn't even start on a team that was not really that great. They had one of those "special" squads you get every so often & made the Orange Bowl one year. LCM rode the bench, the splinter squad, watching from the sidelines, wishing they could get in the game, etc.
The parallel here lies in how the star player in the movie, once he blew out his ACL, the realization hit him that his future NFL career was gone forever. He cried as he also realized that "playing football well is the ONLY thing I can do." Therefore he apparently had NO future at all. All his dreams, gone, poof! In an instant, he left them all on the field.
I all of LCM's rantings, teachings, et al. I can't, for the life of me, remember what his degree from KU is in? I don't even remember if he even finished his degree...??? I DO remember his stories about his football days. He talked about then "aal the time." His picture of the Orange Bowl he sat on the bench in was displayed prominently in his office in the Corps Chalet.
What else was he good at in high school, other than football?
After not having seen a Way Magazine since the last one I worked on in 1988; the first one I saw (about 15 years later) had a picture of him on the set of one of his new classes (I think it was the Adv. WAP). He was holding a football and that Orange Bowl picture was, again, prominently displayed.
That was erie. Now that he was firmly in charge, he had changed EVERYTHING to HIS way.
Now after hearing this stuff the parallels are even downright scary. There ABSOLUTELY IS a heirarchy in big time football. Rookies serve the veterans. If you were a starter as a junior, and basically all seniors made sophomores & freshmen clean our spikes carry our travel bags, etc.
"Go get me a towel." or "Get up! Give ME your seat." ... is not only normal, it is accepted and EXPECTED.
As varsity players, the team is a closed corporation "family." I was a two-sport varsity letterman at a Quad-A western PA High School. We were treated like rock stars in general. Our names were in the newspaper on a weekly basis, people all over the city knew who we were and would talk to us, give us favors, and do stuff like in the movie. Teachers gave us breaks in class at times, especailly the football players because our sport alone funds a large portion of the school's overall budget. When we walked around town in our lettermen jackets, jerseys or sweats. little kids would stare at us as we strutted by, then they'd say "Look mommy, he's a Big Tiger...." (Tiger was our mascot.) We had status, title, and all the perks that go with it.
Coaches don't ask, they DEMAND highly detailed adherance to their policies and procedures. You DON'T question the coach's scheme, you can ask a question, but when it all said & done, YOU bend YOUR will to the way the coach demands that it be done, PERIOD. THAT coach was there because "they" wanted HIM and things done HIS way, because HE was a WINNER. If you brought yourself around and totally sold out, giving your FULL allegiance to the coach's program, he'd lead you to "the promised land of the CHAMPIONSHIP." If the star player needed extra time in the whirlpool "regular" players would give their time up to the star(s), no argument; you contribute a few tackles to the effort, he, a few touchdowns. Bench-warmers don't even get time in whirlpool, even though you get just as sore as the star. Its understood among all involved that that's just "how it is."
Coaches yell and do all sorts of things to players that in other contexts are abusive, to say the least. If you don't like it, tough; don't let the door hit you in the foot on yer way out. If you CAN'T cut it, they cut YOU....goodbye.
I could go on but... I see erie similarities to TWI 2; only the context has changed, but the same types of things go on.
Thousands of guys every year accept the fact that they are NOT a world class player, even though they're very good, they're just never gonna run out of the tunnel to the cheers of thousands of adoring fans; the question, "Hey____! You just won the Super Bowl, what are you gonna do now?" just isn't in your future.
Craig never accepted that reality. He apparently saw TWI as his chance to ascend his throne to the world class status he felt he was robbed of by "not getting the opportunity" to show his stuff to the Orange Bowl's national audience.
I remember saying to him myself, when I first saw the picture, "Hey, I saw that game, I didn't know you were in it!" He went on to tell us the story later pointing out that he didn't get the opportunity to....
Regardless of what TWI was Before LCM, he definitely seems unnaturally fixated on the "big-time sports" life-style and turned TWI into an entity that allowed him to live his fantasy life, this time on top of the heap. His real life experience saw him as the wannabe major player, watching from the bench as the stars grabbed HIS glory.
I remember the first time hearing him teach his "new Ephesians 6 research" (like VPW's research) about the whole armor of God, thinking the "athletes of the spirit" thing was a "stretch." I wondered why he would ever even START to look for an athletic tie to the already crystal clear "soldier" metaphor. Yeah we went along with it though, I know I felt it was "harmless," another way to see it.
Then when he cast HIMSELF as THE athlete!!! Oh - my - God. In SPITE of the fact that he knew he had NO skills, NO training... the big Oakie, by definition, doesn't even have RHYTHM! He brought in "all" of the best "world class" dancers in the ministry... He didn't give one damn about anything other than thumbing his nose at anyone who ever said that he couldn't compete at the "top" athletic level.
If that's not a mid-life crisis, I don't know what is.
That attitude is what led to all the stupid things said & done during "confrontation" sessions; just my opinion.
Wayfernot, What a great story of how warm an indivdule believer could be and a great story in the whole mix of twi mind set. We were each a little terd in the bowl. Makes me sad and mad (more sad) how people were and are treated today.
Oakspear, If you were speaking the Word to them then the Bc would have asked how you could be speaking the Word with all the distractions going on. It was a lose-lose situation. Sick crap.
Thanks for your reply, Galen and for Bonnie's input. We were in a city about 25 miles north of Seattle. We were under a shadow anyway for reasons I won't go into.
I often wonder what people like this would have said if one of us peons had called them up and said, "How would you like to come over, and clean MY house?"
There's a whole world of difference between helping people move, do a chore, prepare for a wedding, etc, and being expected to serve like a slave.
This is the same woman who demanded that my son and I plant flowers in her beds beside her front door to make the house look nice for a class, then when we were doing this chore and the rain was pouring down refused to let my son stand inside the door, got into a screaming contest with her spouse and my son and I had to walk home (a couple of blocks). Then she had the unmitigated audacity to come and fetch me back to finish the job after they had finished the screaming.
And she considered herself to be the living epitomy of Prov 31:10-31.
Well HCW that is a different way of looking at it. Probably a very good way :)--> I was to small to play football so I wrestled for 6 years. No I was not 6 years in high school ;)-->. I know what you mean about it all from being talked about, written about and the little kids. I also know about the coaching point of view from both sides.
I remember LCM talking the football stuff. If I remember right he had a knee injury. In his own words that is what held him back in college. It was in a teaching of his. That when the injury happened he was not going full speed. The "high point" was him saying if we did not go full speed 24/7 then we would get hurt from the debil.
I was in Residents at HQ when the "Lumbering Ox" tried doing Athletes of the Spirit. He sat us down and told us all the stuff that went on. (well not all the stuff ;)--> ) Some of it was pretty damn impressive. Then he had to talk about himself and all the personal training and stuff. He looked like a Bozo up there on stage.
Waterered Garden, You were not spineless. It was the way it was supposed to be. Why we all fell for the trap I will never know, but we did. We had enough spine to pick up either when you left or were kicked out to continue.
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Belle......you know, I heard that some branch coordinators were throwing down policies like you just described. I refused to do that kinda crap with my branch.
There were ENOUGH rules in twi2 without going about establish MORE!! Amazing!!
-->
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Galen
coolchef1248@adelphia.net:
"i ran many pfal classes and of course our house was cleaned by the wabots! not me! and when i wasn't running a class i was cleaning the lc house!! what an a$$ iwas."
You never cleaned your own house for a class?
I am sorry, but I dont recall anyone ever helpign to clean a house of mine.
'wabots'? are they cheap? lsited in the yellowpages?
You cleaned the LC house? LOL
I know for a fact that I never cleaned a LC home. LOL
No, really did you?
:-)
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Watered Garden
Galen, when I was on the Left Coast our TC's wife would always call me to come and visit (we were both homemakers at that time). When I arrived, rather than coffee and a doughnut, she would be waiting with a bucket of soapy water and a rag! She considered it to be granting me a privilege to scrub something in her home for her. She also allowed me to babysit for her sometimes and left a six inch list of chores to accomplish in addition to feeding, bathing and getting her little darlings off to the land of nod!
BTW, I charge $100,000 an hour for that kind of service now!
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Belle
Galen, you would be surprised at all the stupid, menial things we did in TWI II and III for leaders. Remember, too, that you had it very different being military and moving around all the time.
I watched a little girl sit on the floor with a toothbrush cleaning the sliding glass door tracks on the RC's shower and doorways to the back yard.
I babysat for free more times than I can remember. In addition to babysitting, WG, I also had to fold and put up laundry, clean their bathrooms and other chores like that.
My price has gone up too!
:D-->
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Watered Garden
And vacuum, wash the dishes and put them away (with the 10 year old bossing me), do a couple loads of laundry, make sure the right kid got the right bath, each one drank a glass of water right before going to bed, then get yelled at because the youngest wet the bed! When this person had major surgery, I had to go every day and clean her house. The BL's wife called me and said, "dont spend more than half an hour doing it, 45 minutes max!" Then they sat together sipping herbal tea and chatting while I spent two hours cleaning for her. This included washing walls, laundry, making beds, cleaning bathrooms, dusting and vacuuming and getting reproved by the 10 year old (again!) for not doing it quite right.
But we lead this thread astray....sorry!
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Ham
My ex- she had the perfect (but not on purpose) solution to all this. She broke her arm. Right arm, specifically, the wrist. It was in a cast for MONTHS. NO washing. NO scrubbing. NO or little driving. The Nazi-ette was SO angry about it. Foaming. She had just only begun asking her over to have "fellowship" (cleaning) one with another. "I can't believe it. How long you gonna be in that cast? You've gotta be joking..."
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Steve!
Yeeeesh!
What a nuthouse TWI is!!!
I remember rearend St*cey B*wen R*pke and others used to say that docvic(praise be his name) said that "things are to be used, people are to be loved."
I guess that they mixed that one up, too - "things are to be loved, people are absolutely to be used."
I was thinking to myself, "Erk, I'm glad I never was in that kind of situation" when I remembered that yes, I have been in that situation.
I was head usher for a wedding for a twig leader that was going to occur at the limb home, and it was part of my job to make sure the grounds looked good. This was rearend B*ll Gre*ne's house in Portland, OR. It was up on a hill, and the side of the hill was covered with this trashy vine type of plant. I had to spend a Saturday clearing it all away. Then I had to load it into the back of a pickup truck (can't remember who I borrowed *that* from) and figure out where I could dump it.
And that was just one job of many that I had to do to help the place be ready for the wedding!
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outandabout
This thread is turning into "Stupid Things We Did for Leaders" but that's ok.
Ah the memories. I just remembered how, when the Advanced Class was held in San Diego at San Diego State, I had to drive out to one end of the city (not a small town here) to pick up a barbecue to take all the way back to the limb leaders's home for all the honchos who came to town to have a little get together. (Was I invited? Of course not!)
The thing had ashes in it and when I had to put it sideways in the back of my hatchback, the ashes spilled out all over the trunk. But I was a DOULOS for God and it was a small price to pay for the privilege of SERVING.
Same week of that class, I remember helping to clean the area leaders' home for the arrival of the upper echelon who would be staying there. They kicked out the peon believers who were living in the house so the big honchos could have accomodations.
Oh, man this is all coming back to me now.....I had to do the prayer room and furnish it. So my husband and a friend carted our sofa over there along with other stuff to "decorate" the prayer room. I put a few rugs on the floor as well and also put in two side tables from our living room.
Later, the area leader tells us the sofa isn't quite what they want, so we have to haul it back and they put in a couch that was already there in one of the common rooms. Sorry you didn't like my couch!
And then later some one picked up the rugs I had put down and stuck them in a corner. Sorry you didn't like my rugs!
They furnished the dorms where the hot shots were staying with believers' rugs, lamps, chairs, art work, etc. They looked like some one's plush apartment.
Meanwhile the students stayed in dorm rooms that were furnished like dorm rooms.
Some one asked me to go to one room and bring back a food processor for one of the esteemed leaders. So I brought it to her and she tells me in this condesending matter that I hadn't brought her all the parts. Sorry I didn't know all the parts of a food processor! Maybe I was too POOR from jumping all over the country doing menial jobs to ever AFFORD a food processor, unlike her who lived in nice homes off of TWI's abundance.
When I look back on this, I see so clearly that there was such a blantant heirarchy in TWI.
And we just happily went along with it - until we woke up!
Oh yeah, not to mention the time we had to clean a limb leaders' house in MS. I was up on the roof sweeping off pine needles and there was a wasp nest, and I got attacked and stung. Man, those wasp stings hurt, too!
I remember I could see into the BL's bedroom and there was a pair of panties on the floor! I was shocked! The perfect BL's wife who was so spiritual left a pair of panties on the floor??
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excathedra
barf !
did you ever see any of those lists about what leadership liked ? all that shtuff to have on hand ?
sowwy for the continued choo choo
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alfakat
and let's not even get into all the gift and card .... that went on---yikes!
:P--> 
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def59
I remember living with my BC and getting the boot anytime anyone else came for a week or weekend. That's about the time I left TWI. Never went back!
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justloafing
alfakat, I forgot all about that crap. Damn it, we set the crap up, bring us something. Besideds all the tapes. I always thought that was BS
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Nottawayfer
A twig of which I was part was involved in a "before the Church" confrontation of a 62 year old woman who had barely just taken PFAL.
I had actually met her and witnessed to her with another guy while door-to-door witnessing. When we met up with her I could tell that she was just lonely and wanted to have some company. She had already expressed that she was already saved. I guess she thought we were trying to get people saved that day.
Her first meeting was a phone hookup with a production from HQ. That was the tacky one where Puke Martinfail was making fat lady jokes. She was offended by him, but she continued to come back. She must have been really lonely because she kept coming to fellowship as long as I called her up. I kept telling the FCs that I always had to call her to get her to come and I didn't think she was really interested in coming. But of course I was encouraged to keep calling.
--> "No" doesn't mean "no" in the way until you actually say it, and then it doesn't always mean "NO" then because the bastages will try to talk you out of your "NO".
I left to go take the "new" ACS that Puke Martinfail did for PFAL, and my FCs signed this woman up for the class during that time with a lot of pressure involved I'm sure. I new in my heart of hearts that this woman wasn't ready for the class. Maybe she really wasn't interested, but she seemed to just go along with things. She was too easry. But she also seemed to have "problems". Not normal people every day life problems....my pea brain back then would have called the problems "mental". There was a lot of pressure to get people for this class because it was the LAST PFAL class run in the area.
The FC's wife was a stay-at-home mom, so she would invite this woman over during the day. This woman did not work. She was estranged from her husband, who lived several states away, and she had issues with her family that lived near. Let's say this now, the FC's wife was a bitch. She had a physical issue which kept her from doing the things she wanted to do, and she refused to get surgery to help her situation. She was also dropped from the corps a few years earlier because she didnt marry corps. She was still trying to act like she was corps. She was a complete hot head. I lived with the FCs. She bitched me out once for buying the wrong milk.
--> After the woman took the class, she started speaking up about things she saw wrong, and she would argue with the bitchy FC wife.
One day when this woman was over visiting, the 3 year old daughter of the FCs was playing with herself. She was running around with no undies on, and like many curious children was checking things out. This woman was completely shocked to see this and told the FC's wife that the girl shouldn't be doing that.
Well FC's wife told her husband of the things that happened and all of a sudden we were having a fellowship confrontation. It was aweful. The FC told her that his daughter would touch herself wherever and whenever she wanted to. She was told to get her act together or be kicked out of the household. The problem with this is that this woman didn't understand half of what was being said to her because she only had been involved a few months and wasn't familiar with way jargon. She didn't even understand what it was to live up to par as a wayfer. It was terrible, and I've expressed my sorrow to God to even be in the damn room.
The woman ending up continuing to go to fellowship. Why? I think she was just lonley, and she seemed to be clingy to me. It was hard for me because I just didn't want to hang out with a 62 year old. I was 31 and newly divorced. I wanted to start living my single life and moving on from my divorce.
Later that year, I ended up going on Staff. This woman was still going to twig, and the twig was left to take care of her. I went back to visit on a vacation while on Staff and found out this poor woman was a full-time facility for alzheimer's patients. The "mental" thing then rang clear to me. I felt so terrible that this poor woman needed more than she was getting from the twig, and they did as little as possible. They didn't want to kick her completely to the curb because she had taken the class and continued to come to twig, yet she was probably considered a burden.
I really believe getting people to the class was about bringing in money now.
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Oakspear
I guess I should have remembered that from the mid-nineties on, every minute of every day was a confrontation session! We got yelled at for so many things it was astounding:
BC sets up a "witnessing night" at the park. He and some of the younger guys get into a basketball game, some of us parents took our kids to the playground, and some of the singles just cruised around. After the designated time to meet, we all meet back at the basketball courts where BC is still playing basketball and not really talking to anyone. The rest of us amble over to watch the game. BC stops in the middle of a play and roars at me to "get my people together" (I was a twig coordinator) and speak the Word to some of those gathered around and stop being slothful.
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Oakspear
...or how about the time when BC is reading from his bible during a teaching and stops, looking at us expectantly to chime in with the next word. By the time we all figure out what we are suposed to do, he is screaming at the top of his lungs that we are "dead".
...same BC has asked me to be responsible for setting up a room for fellowship at his house while he is running a WayAP class at another location. He tells me that since the room wasn't being used for anything else at the time, I could leave it set up and just come over a few minutes early and dust.
Twig night, about an hour before it was to start he calls me up, screaming at my "slothfullness" and inattention to detail. The room is not set up! Perplexed, I drive over to find that all the furniture is pushed against the walls. He is screaming again, demanding to know when I was going to set up the room for a fellowship that was to start (by then) in about a half an hour.
I reminded him that he told me that I could leave the room set up, and he admitted that he forgot, and had moved everything around so that he and his wife could exercise! No apology though, and later an explanation that if I had been spiritually sharp I would have showed up earlier and caught the problem myself!
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A la prochaine
Oaksie,
Where does it end?
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GeorgeStGeorge
I find it amazing that you guys stuck with TWI as long as you did! Whenever our branch was called together to prepare a house for a class, or whatever, the BC and his wife always pitched in. I did help clean a yard for a friend of mine for his wedding (I, too, was the best man); but I would have done that, TWI or not.
On the other hand, stupid things said to me in confrontation could fill a book. It was like a Bill Cosby routine: "Keep silent! ANSWER ME!!!"
George
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A la prochaine
OK...i know i'm a little behind here with my response...but i must say something just the same.
Socks you posted on page 1 of this thread.
It's been about 2 days since I read your posts and i'm still laughing...i'm dying here!!!
thank you thank you thank you.
your summation of leadership and their arrogant ways was priceless!!!
it's so great to be here on gs when i stumble across such things. makes my heart sing!
:D-->
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Galen
Watered Garden:
"Galen, when I was on the Left Coast our TC's wife would always call me to come and visit (we were both homemakers at that time). When I arrived, rather than coffee and a doughnut, she would be waiting with a bucket of soapy water and a rag! She considered it to be granting me a privilege to scrub something in her home for her. She also allowed me to babysit for her sometimes and left a six inch list of chores to accomplish in addition to feeding, bathing and getting her little darlings off to the land of nod! "
What crack-smoking
I truly dont recall ever doing such things for anyone else' home as has been listed here on this thread.
So I asked Bonnie. She said that once while I was underwater, and she was in Bremerton Washington, there was a period where she did not maintain the twig, and she was visiting with a 'near-by' twig-coordinator in Port Orchard. Tina Meekin I think her name was. Well the BC's wife was there and the conversation did turn to the area twigs taking turns in a rotation to go over to Tacoma to the BC's home to clean it for her each week. Apparently Bonnie said whatever her immediate thought was out-loud [knowing her was was likely either: "Is the Branch Coord smoking crack, thinking that we are his slaves?" Or something fairly close to that]. Bonnie says that after whatever she said, the other ladies shifted topics. and for the remainder of the time that we were stationed there, such topic was never again brought up in her presence. Though I do seem to think that Tina did take to inviting Bonnie over, more frequently during the later era of our time stationed at Bremerton and then over to Bangor [pronounced Bang-Her, unlike the Bangor in Maine which is pronounced Bang-Gor [long O]] :-)
I think that Tina may have seen Bonnie as a 'sheild' to ward off her twig from having to do the slave routine at the BC home. That BC, we can't recall his name. We did know a 'Steve Strict' that was in Fresno 'with' us, he did have a live-in female slave [she went to college with me], the BC in Tacoma's name sounded like 'Strict' but it was something different. Sorry I cant recall his last name. I know that later when it was announced that a spy had found a book from Cummins in my closet, the BC was not capable of talking to us about it, and had to refer it to Mosquido, to 'confront' us about it.
Bonnie did remind me that we did routinely help people move. We commonly brought over a few cases of beer or a keg, and a few pizzas and had invited over as many beleivers and sailors to help load a moving van and clean the property, or in the case of someone moving into the area, they wold help cleaning the house and unloading the van.
All the PFAL classes and others [Renewed mind, harmony of the Gospels, Intermediate, Basic Keys to Research, Witnessing and Undershepherding, etc] we cleaned and organized our home ourselves.
It simply never occured to us to employ slave labor. That would be un-duly using your position in the body, to intimidate compliance from the congregation.
:-)
Belle, WG, Hamm, Excath-
See I guess that many of us did experience the same ministry, after all.
Outie-
I took the Advanced Class in San Diego, thank you for you efforts.
It never occured to me that 'big wigs' coming in, would have expected such service. I am sorry if I in anyway contributed to the burden.
Def-
You got booted from your residence whenever 'big wigs' came to town?
Ugh, it is amazing that anyone thought wuch was 'ministering'.
Oakspear-
"I reminded him that he told me that I could leave the room set up, and he admitted that he forgot, and had moved everything around so that he and his wife could exercise! No apology though, and later an explanation that if I had been spiritually sharp I would have showed up earlier and caught the problem myself!"
I know from experience that commonly it helps to remind people to thank me, ie "Yes I do except your apology for mis-takenly yelling at me" and turning my back and walking away.
A la Prochaine-
"... your summation of leadership and their arrogant ways was priceless!!!"
It is nice to read about it when it is coming from someone else. :-)
When I point it out, I apparently offend many posters. But yes, Corpse leadership was often very arrogant.
:-)
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HCW
It IS amazing George. About 98% of this stuff here is news to me. Unimaginable. Some of it is even illegal.
What I find most interesting is how this stuff If it were a movie, it could be called, "Revenge of the Wannabe" Starring L. Craig Martindale. The trailer would say, "Craig Martindale IS the wannabe."
You probably all know by now how Craig REALLY wanted to be a pro football player.
Here's an interesting parallel. I was reminded of this today as I was watching "Friday Night Lights" with my boys (decent flick BTW). For those who've never seen it, its based on a true story about a Texas High School football team's quest to win the 5A (the biggest schools), state championship.
The 5A level in Texas is as big time as HS football gets. In a few other states, like California, Pennsylvania, Florida & Ohio, the top players are a "lock" at NCAA Division 1 colleges and a "good bet" at having a shot at the NFL. Of course there are other HS guys accross the entire country that have a legitimate shot at "the league," but those 5 states get the lion's share of attention from higher level scouts. Oklahoma is arguably among the top five. I'm from PA. (We're the BEST & that's all there is to it. Each of the other states says exactly what I just did. Hey> It IS about competition...
:)-->)
Craig was a decent player in HS. He felt he had a legitimate shot. But once he moved up a level to Division 1 NCAA he couldn't even start on a team that was not really that great. They had one of those "special" squads you get every so often & made the Orange Bowl one year. LCM rode the bench, the splinter squad, watching from the sidelines, wishing they could get in the game, etc.
The parallel here lies in how the star player in the movie, once he blew out his ACL, the realization hit him that his future NFL career was gone forever. He cried as he also realized that "playing football well is the ONLY thing I can do." Therefore he apparently had NO future at all. All his dreams, gone, poof! In an instant, he left them all on the field.
I all of LCM's rantings, teachings, et al. I can't, for the life of me, remember what his degree from KU is in? I don't even remember if he even finished his degree...??? I DO remember his stories about his football days. He talked about then "aal the time." His picture of the Orange Bowl he sat on the bench in was displayed prominently in his office in the Corps Chalet.
What else was he good at in high school, other than football?
After not having seen a Way Magazine since the last one I worked on in 1988; the first one I saw (about 15 years later) had a picture of him on the set of one of his new classes (I think it was the Adv. WAP). He was holding a football and that Orange Bowl picture was, again, prominently displayed.
That was erie. Now that he was firmly in charge, he had changed EVERYTHING to HIS way.
Now after hearing this stuff the parallels are even downright scary. There ABSOLUTELY IS a heirarchy in big time football. Rookies serve the veterans. If you were a starter as a junior, and basically all seniors made sophomores & freshmen clean our spikes carry our travel bags, etc.
"Go get me a towel." or "Get up! Give ME your seat." ... is not only normal, it is accepted and EXPECTED.
As varsity players, the team is a closed corporation "family." I was a two-sport varsity letterman at a Quad-A western PA High School. We were treated like rock stars in general. Our names were in the newspaper on a weekly basis, people all over the city knew who we were and would talk to us, give us favors, and do stuff like in the movie. Teachers gave us breaks in class at times, especailly the football players because our sport alone funds a large portion of the school's overall budget. When we walked around town in our lettermen jackets, jerseys or sweats. little kids would stare at us as we strutted by, then they'd say "Look mommy, he's a Big Tiger...." (Tiger was our mascot.) We had status, title, and all the perks that go with it.
Coaches don't ask, they DEMAND highly detailed adherance to their policies and procedures. You DON'T question the coach's scheme, you can ask a question, but when it all said & done, YOU bend YOUR will to the way the coach demands that it be done, PERIOD. THAT coach was there because "they" wanted HIM and things done HIS way, because HE was a WINNER. If you brought yourself around and totally sold out, giving your FULL allegiance to the coach's program, he'd lead you to "the promised land of the CHAMPIONSHIP." If the star player needed extra time in the whirlpool "regular" players would give their time up to the star(s), no argument; you contribute a few tackles to the effort, he, a few touchdowns. Bench-warmers don't even get time in whirlpool, even though you get just as sore as the star. Its understood among all involved that that's just "how it is."
Coaches yell and do all sorts of things to players that in other contexts are abusive, to say the least. If you don't like it, tough; don't let the door hit you in the foot on yer way out. If you CAN'T cut it, they cut YOU....goodbye.
I could go on but... I see erie similarities to TWI 2; only the context has changed, but the same types of things go on.
Thousands of guys every year accept the fact that they are NOT a world class player, even though they're very good, they're just never gonna run out of the tunnel to the cheers of thousands of adoring fans; the question, "Hey____! You just won the Super Bowl, what are you gonna do now?" just isn't in your future.
Craig never accepted that reality. He apparently saw TWI as his chance to ascend his throne to the world class status he felt he was robbed of by "not getting the opportunity" to show his stuff to the Orange Bowl's national audience.
I remember saying to him myself, when I first saw the picture, "Hey, I saw that game, I didn't know you were in it!" He went on to tell us the story later pointing out that he didn't get the opportunity to....
Regardless of what TWI was Before LCM, he definitely seems unnaturally fixated on the "big-time sports" life-style and turned TWI into an entity that allowed him to live his fantasy life, this time on top of the heap. His real life experience saw him as the wannabe major player, watching from the bench as the stars grabbed HIS glory.
I remember the first time hearing him teach his "new Ephesians 6 research" (like VPW's research) about the whole armor of God, thinking the "athletes of the spirit" thing was a "stretch." I wondered why he would ever even START to look for an athletic tie to the already crystal clear "soldier" metaphor. Yeah we went along with it though, I know I felt it was "harmless," another way to see it.
Then when he cast HIMSELF as THE athlete!!! Oh - my - God. In SPITE of the fact that he knew he had NO skills, NO training... the big Oakie, by definition, doesn't even have RHYTHM! He brought in "all" of the best "world class" dancers in the ministry... He didn't give one damn about anything other than thumbing his nose at anyone who ever said that he couldn't compete at the "top" athletic level.
If that's not a mid-life crisis, I don't know what is.
That attitude is what led to all the stupid things said & done during "confrontation" sessions; just my opinion.
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justloafing
Wayfernot, What a great story of how warm an indivdule believer could be and a great story in the whole mix of twi mind set. We were each a little terd in the bowl. Makes me sad and mad (more sad) how people were and are treated today.
Oakspear, If you were speaking the Word to them then the Bc would have asked how you could be speaking the Word with all the distractions going on. It was a lose-lose situation. Sick crap.
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Watered Garden
Thanks for your reply, Galen and for Bonnie's input. We were in a city about 25 miles north of Seattle. We were under a shadow anyway for reasons I won't go into.
I often wonder what people like this would have said if one of us peons had called them up and said, "How would you like to come over, and clean MY house?"
There's a whole world of difference between helping people move, do a chore, prepare for a wedding, etc, and being expected to serve like a slave.
This is the same woman who demanded that my son and I plant flowers in her beds beside her front door to make the house look nice for a class, then when we were doing this chore and the rain was pouring down refused to let my son stand inside the door, got into a screaming contest with her spouse and my son and I had to walk home (a couple of blocks). Then she had the unmitigated audacity to come and fetch me back to finish the job after they had finished the screaming.
And she considered herself to be the living epitomy of Prov 31:10-31.
Jeez. How could I have been so darn spineless?
WG
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justloafing
Well HCW that is a different way of looking at it. Probably a very good way
:)--> I was to small to play football so I wrestled for 6 years. No I was not 6 years in high school 
;)-->. I know what you mean about it all from being talked about, written about and the little kids. I also know about the coaching point of view from both sides.
I remember LCM talking the football stuff. If I remember right he had a knee injury. In his own words that is what held him back in college. It was in a teaching of his. That when the injury happened he was not going full speed. The "high point" was him saying if we did not go full speed 24/7 then we would get hurt from the debil.
I was in Residents at HQ when the "Lumbering Ox" tried doing Athletes of the Spirit. He sat us down and told us all the stuff that went on. (well not all the stuff
;)--> ) Some of it was pretty damn impressive. Then he had to talk about himself and all the personal training and stuff. He looked like a Bozo up there on stage.
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justloafing
I keep getting one post behind grrrrrrrr.
Waterered Garden, You were not spineless. It was the way it was supposed to be. Why we all fell for the trap I will never know, but we did. We had enough spine to pick up either when you left or were kicked out to continue.
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