Now I'm really curious how that worked Oaks. You're at work, you get a call, and what? What was it called? How was it stated, to come and be the note taker guy?
Usually the whole thing was a kangaroo court to expel someone who the BC just didn't like.
Wow, Oakspear, that's not a very SPIRITUAL assessment of the motives of the leaders who were placed over you by GOD in HIS household. ;)-->
I think we need to call a MEETING RIGHT NOW about you saying such a devilish thing about the people who only wanted GOD'S BEST for your life!!! I mean, here they were, taking time out of their busy lives to watch out for GOD'S HOUSEHOLD and cleanse it from evil and you say they were doing it because they simply "didn't like some one?" How sense-knowledge of you!!!
And frank123, my brother and his wife finally left TWI because of the housecleaning thing. He said they got put on probation because "their house was too dirty." He said that their house was "dirty" because they had no time to clean it because they were always at Way things.
Oh my Gosh, I STILL can't get over this stuff!! -->
Sounds like a little bit of the difference between twi 1 and twi 2. TWI 1 would tolerate a person even that they thought there was something that bugged a leader but twi 2, if you were not liked by a head honcho, you were thrown out.
Well look where that got them. Now all that are left can have a "group hug" in one room instead of a ROA. Poor pathetic people.
justloafing...How true that is...We had to put up with anybody and everybody that showed up for twig...nobody ever got booted...
Martinfail was there in the early days of twi 1 just like a lot of us were...it probably irked him to no end, having to allow all the misfits to attend fellowships...He waited for the day when he could excercize absolute authority and purge twi of all those who didn't meet his standards...
The fact that people had always been welcomed with open arms, no matter who they were, was a main drawing card that kept a lot of people involved...it indicated a certain level of unconditional acceptance...it indicated that there was a Christian concept acually at work...of course, this was distasteful to loy...his callousness and mean spiritedness had been waiting patiently until the day when he could unfurl his wrath upon the infidels...
The twi inquisitions of the 90's were a direct manifestation of martinfails own uncaring, mean personality...I'm amazed that it didn't unravel even faster than it did...what a jerk he was.
Confrontee does something stupid (I forget what it was) and is being grilled by the BC. BC asks him if he thinks God is happy with his actions. Confrontee says that no, God is not happy with his actions. BC then asks how he pictures God expressing his disapproval.
I wonder what would have happened if "Confrontee" gave the (correct) answer: "He would forgive me." (I have a mind picture reminiscent of the healed blind man asking the Pharisees if they wanted to be Jesus's followers!)
i ran many pfal classes and of course our house was cleaned by the wabots! not me! and when i wasn't running a class i was cleaning the lc house!! what an a$$ iwas.
It's kind of funny how stuff like this comes back to bite you in the rear. You will never forget. I only made a handful of those kind of "mistakes". Makes me wonder what it's like for Loy and crowd. Screwed over so many people, I don't see how he can live with himself. I suppose anti-depressants would help..
We had people in our fellowship confronted for having a "filthy house" and for not actively trying to sell their house. -->
One woman was confronted because her son was constantly sick and she wasn't tough enough with him. If he was living in a "spiritually clean" environment you know he wouldn't have been sick all the time. -->
We actually got a HFC we loved in trouble and removed from FC status because he made a comment one time that craig has "so much more time than we do". He doesn't have a "real job" or have to deal with "real life" situations and that's why he's able to know so much more Bible than us. :(--> I'm so ashamed.
Our whole HFC and assistant C's got reamed for a good half hour at a meeting once because at the branch meeting the week-end before someone had worn a coat & tie to the meeting thereby out-dressing the wc leadership of the meeting. Not one person 'confronted' the individual on his inappropriate behavior and for trying to upstage the leadership. The poor guy was trying to show respect! He's not the sharpest tack in the box, but he has the most caring and tender heart. No way would I have gotten onto him for that!
Same wc leadership "reproved" my ex and I for offering them free movie tickets that I had gotten for free from work. How dare we put them in the position of having to even consider or be tempted to accept a bribe from us? I didn't think it was a big deal, the local rc and his wife accepted the tickets, came with a group of us who did accept the free tickets I offered.
Same wc leadership "reproved" us for not buying Dr Don's tapes of retemories. I said that my ex had already memorized all the verses when they asked me to buy them. My poor ex had to listen to this guy lecture him for a half hour very late in the evening when he had to get up in just a few hours to go to work.
Now I'm really curious how that worked Oaks. You're at work, you get a call, and what? What was it called? How was it stated, to come and be the note taker guy?
First, I got to be the "note taker guy" because the BC got a look at the notes I took at a class one time. It was the original live version of Defeating the Adversary that was the first half of an Advanced Class Special in (I think) 1992. The notes were considerably more detailed than the syllabus and contained notes on charts that for one reason or another didn't make it into the filmed class.
(I'm still kind of an obsessive note taker. Ask some of the Weenies about my little black notebook at the 2nd Weenie Roast :D-->)
The first time I got called was after a twig coordinators' meeting one night. The BC, remembering my compulsive (yet detailed & accurate) note taking, took me aside and asked me to come with him and take notes at a confrontation that was brewing. Apparently I was such a sucessful little non-Corps Nazi that I was kept on as a regular member of the Gestapo.
It helped that I was easy to get ahold of. I worked out of my home and didn't keep regular hours, we also home-schooled the kids, so both me & the former Mrs. Oak were at home most of the time. Of course, they didn't consider that just because we were HOME didn't mean that we were AVAILABLE.
Yeah, sometimes I'd get a call out of the blue - "I'm coming over to pick you up - we have to confront socks about his wise-foot comments" ;)-->
For about a year my oldest son lived with the BC and his wife. My son worked several part time jobs rather than one full time job.
One of the downfalls of this is that if you are single, working several low income jobs, the tax tables that employers use to figure withholding show that the income at each of the jobs is too low for there to be a tax liability, so there is little or no withholding, even though when you add them together there is.
Due to this, my son owed a few hundred at tax time, rather than getting a refund.
The BC confronted him for being in debt to the IRS.
(Despite the fact that Howard Allen taught that the ideal situation was to break even, or owe a small amount, so that you had full use of your money, and the gov't wasn't holding it interest-free)
Okay Oaks. I gotcha. This whole topic is foreign to me, that there would have been some kind of a formal policy, with procedures and guidelines for these 'confrontations'.
It reminded me, years ago, a Limb Boss and I were having a discussion about something prior to a meeting that we were setting up for - it was one of those deals where dozens of WOW's and Way Corps were supposed to quit their jobs or take time off and converge on a hotel days in advance to do what any hotel staff with a decent setup chart could do in a few hours.
He was having an exploded spleen over something or other and was in the process of kicking me out of the Way Corps, my assignment, I mean everything was going in the toilet and I wasn't even the main guy working on the meeting, he hadn't gotten their yet so you can imagine what was in store for him. :D-->
The Limb Boss was of course, comfortably sequestered in his hotel room thinking, dispensing wisdom, setting up Tee times with big contributors, golf clubs in the corner. He had a few of his Limb staffers and gofers who I think had already been bent over and individually reamed for not having enough tissues on the desk, or something like that, I forget all the details but there were things that were wrong that day, real wrong, spiritually wrong, things no grown man with a decent pair of functioning testicles could tolerate or do his job without. You know, insulting stuff that was tantamount to spiritually snipping off his nads, one pube at a time. Oh, it was bad, real bad.
Anyway, words were being exchanged and I looked up for a moment and saw the looks on the faces of the other people in the room and realized they were about to be exposed to a train wreck of mammoth proportions and were still rubbing their own severely abused posteriors.
So I did the only right thing - I looked at them and said to the Limb Czar "I'd like to talk to you alone about this if that's alright". It got quiet for a sec and he said "Fine". And they trooped out of the room, single file.
No witnesses. :P-->
The rest of the details are fuzzy. :)--> I think it ended up okay.
To add - I never wanted to subject other people to these in-family cat fights. Just because some Limb guy has his panties in a wad because their not silky enough on his little butt that day doesn't mean I'm going to iron them for him. But a lot of people couldn't handle that, they'd assume that arguing with The Man or The Woman was wrong under any circumstances, no matter what. And it was hard to sort through things sometimes in close quarters with people you had to still try and work with. Eventually I realized I couldn't work with these people anyway, no matter what, so it wasn't worth trying. But I preferred not having a bunch of people listening, judging, people who were usually going to be all too happy to massage the Leaders...ego later.
Here's one that was said to my ex "control your wife".
Even he, as waybrained as he was, walked away scratching his head and wondering how on earth he was supposed to control another human being. AND that, my friends, is the beginning of how abuse can begin in a marriage.
Some believers in the area decided to barbecue in their back yard. Then they invited some other people, then they thought, "Hey, let's invite Mot and Barq too! (the branch leaders)
WELL, they were rightfully REPROVED by branch leader Mot because it was wrong spiritual PROTOCOL to invite him LAST.
We also put on a surprise birthday party for said branch leader, and were royally reproved later for the party not being good enough and not showing enough respect to BL and BL's wife.
I think at one point BL's wife had nowhere to sit and no one jumped up to give her one.
They cancelled the Sunday morning fellowships to punish us.
In the mid 80's before they started kicking people out, I was a branch leader. One of my twig leaders was a real mental case but was putting a lot of people through the class so my boss didn't believe me when I said there was a problem. (His boss - the limb leader - later appologized after the whole thing went down).
But my immediate boss was an idiot. In one reproof session all he did was read me scriptures. Didn't say one word about why he thought those verses applied in my situation. I had already decided I didn't care what he thought so I just gave no response and left.
We got in trouble because a few of us decided to do something - maybe it was bbq. Anyway, the small get-together grew and half the branch must have been there. The next fellowship meeting we got in trouble for not inviting our bc's. Then there was a rule enacted that if more than three believers were getting together to do something we had to let the bc know about it.
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socks
Oaks, the Note Taker. Like a court stenographer? Did you ever read back from the notes?
"Read back that last part, Oaks!"
(shuffling paper)..."Can I go to the bathroom, I gotta pee like a race horse".
"No! The part after that, after I cast out the Pee Spirit!"
(more shuffling papers)..."Uh...you mean when he said, 'You can kiss my rosey red a$$?' "
"Yes! That's it, the last straw! Ridiculing Rosalie Rivenbark! You're out Mister! Out! Make a note Oakspear, I said O-U-T OUT!!"
(Oaks shuffling papers again) "How'd you spell that again?"
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socks
Now I'm really curious how that worked Oaks. You're at work, you get a call, and what? What was it called? How was it stated, to come and be the note taker guy?
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frank123lol
Agood friend got booted from twi,He was sick so he got up in front of the region twit,that was
considered disrespect.What a crock
I and my wife were confronted on our dirty house,we were slothful.Maybe thier house was so clean was because we were always cleaning it for a meeting.
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outandabout
Wow, Oakspear, that's not a very SPIRITUAL assessment of the motives of the leaders who were placed over you by GOD in HIS household.
;)-->
I think we need to call a MEETING RIGHT NOW about you saying such a devilish thing about the people who only wanted GOD'S BEST for your life!!! I mean, here they were, taking time out of their busy lives to watch out for GOD'S HOUSEHOLD and cleanse it from evil and you say they were doing it because they simply "didn't like some one?" How sense-knowledge of you!!!
And frank123, my brother and his wife finally left TWI because of the housecleaning thing. He said they got put on probation because "their house was too dirty." He said that their house was "dirty" because they had no time to clean it because they were always at Way things.
Oh my Gosh, I STILL can't get over this stuff!!
-->
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Ham
"We KNOW something is seriously wrong with you. It will go better for you if you admit it. Spill your guts, it's your only chance".
Unbelievable.. they must've "mastered" da revelation manifestations alright.
I should have told him, "you're right. My mother and father were from outer space".
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Ham
Mr. bread and vegetables probably would have believed it..
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justloafing
Sounds like a little bit of the difference between twi 1 and twi 2. TWI 1 would tolerate a person even that they thought there was something that bugged a leader but twi 2, if you were not liked by a head honcho, you were thrown out.
Well look where that got them. Now all that are left can have a "group hug" in one room instead of a ROA. Poor pathetic people.
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GrouchoMarxJr
justloafing...How true that is...We had to put up with anybody and everybody that showed up for twig...nobody ever got booted...
Martinfail was there in the early days of twi 1 just like a lot of us were...it probably irked him to no end, having to allow all the misfits to attend fellowships...He waited for the day when he could excercize absolute authority and purge twi of all those who didn't meet his standards...
The fact that people had always been welcomed with open arms, no matter who they were, was a main drawing card that kept a lot of people involved...it indicated a certain level of unconditional acceptance...it indicated that there was a Christian concept acually at work...of course, this was distasteful to loy...his callousness and mean spiritedness had been waiting patiently until the day when he could unfurl his wrath upon the infidels...
The twi inquisitions of the 90's were a direct manifestation of martinfails own uncaring, mean personality...I'm amazed that it didn't unravel even faster than it did...what a jerk he was.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I wonder what would have happened if "Confrontee" gave the (correct) answer: "He would forgive me." (I have a mind picture reminiscent of the healed blind man asking the Pharisees if they wanted to be Jesus's followers!)
George
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
i ran many pfal classes and of course our house was cleaned by the wabots! not me! and when i wasn't running a class i was cleaning the lc house!! what an a$$ iwas.
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Ham
Oh well.. in a way, I think we all were..
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Ham
I said my share of stupid stuff.. wish I could take it back. At least I have the priviledge to know how stupid it really was.
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Ham
It's kind of funny how stuff like this comes back to bite you in the rear. You will never forget. I only made a handful of those kind of "mistakes". Makes me wonder what it's like for Loy and crowd. Screwed over so many people, I don't see how he can live with himself. I suppose anti-depressants would help..
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Belle
We had people in our fellowship confronted for having a "filthy house" and for not actively trying to sell their house.
-->
One woman was confronted because her son was constantly sick and she wasn't tough enough with him. If he was living in a "spiritually clean" environment you know he wouldn't have been sick all the time.
-->
We actually got a HFC we loved in trouble and removed from FC status because he made a comment one time that craig has "so much more time than we do". He doesn't have a "real job" or have to deal with "real life" situations and that's why he's able to know so much more Bible than us.
:(--> I'm so ashamed.
Our whole HFC and assistant C's got reamed for a good half hour at a meeting once because at the branch meeting the week-end before someone had worn a coat & tie to the meeting thereby out-dressing the wc leadership of the meeting. Not one person 'confronted' the individual on his inappropriate behavior and for trying to upstage the leadership. The poor guy was trying to show respect! He's not the sharpest tack in the box, but he has the most caring and tender heart. No way would I have gotten onto him for that!
Same wc leadership "reproved" my ex and I for offering them free movie tickets that I had gotten for free from work. How dare we put them in the position of having to even consider or be tempted to accept a bribe from us? I didn't think it was a big deal, the local rc and his wife accepted the tickets, came with a group of us who did accept the free tickets I offered.
Same wc leadership "reproved" us for not buying Dr Don's tapes of retemories. I said that my ex had already memorized all the verses when they asked me to buy them. My poor ex had to listen to this guy lecture him for a half hour very late in the evening when he had to get up in just a few hours to go to work.
Want more? I got 'em!
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Oakspear
(I'm still kind of an obsessive note taker. Ask some of the Weenies about my little black notebook at the 2nd Weenie Roast
:D-->)
The first time I got called was after a twig coordinators' meeting one night. The BC, remembering my compulsive (yet detailed & accurate) note taking, took me aside and asked me to come with him and take notes at a confrontation that was brewing. Apparently I was such a sucessful little non-Corps Nazi that I was kept on as a regular member of the Gestapo.
It helped that I was easy to get ahold of. I worked out of my home and didn't keep regular hours, we also home-schooled the kids, so both me & the former Mrs. Oak were at home most of the time. Of course, they didn't consider that just because we were HOME didn't mean that we were AVAILABLE.
Yeah, sometimes I'd get a call out of the blue - "I'm coming over to pick you up - we have to confront socks about his wise-foot comments"
;)-->
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Oakspear
For about a year my oldest son lived with the BC and his wife. My son worked several part time jobs rather than one full time job.
One of the downfalls of this is that if you are single, working several low income jobs, the tax tables that employers use to figure withholding show that the income at each of the jobs is too low for there to be a tax liability, so there is little or no withholding, even though when you add them together there is.
Due to this, my son owed a few hundred at tax time, rather than getting a refund.
The BC confronted him for being in debt to the IRS.
(Despite the fact that Howard Allen taught that the ideal situation was to break even, or owe a small amount, so that you had full use of your money, and the gov't wasn't holding it interest-free)
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socks
Okay Oaks. I gotcha. This whole topic is foreign to me, that there would have been some kind of a formal policy, with procedures and guidelines for these 'confrontations'.
It reminded me, years ago, a Limb Boss and I were having a discussion about something prior to a meeting that we were setting up for - it was one of those deals where dozens of WOW's and Way Corps were supposed to quit their jobs or take time off and converge on a hotel days in advance to do what any hotel staff with a decent setup chart could do in a few hours.
He was having an exploded spleen over something or other and was in the process of kicking me out of the Way Corps, my assignment, I mean everything was going in the toilet and I wasn't even the main guy working on the meeting, he hadn't gotten their yet so you can imagine what was in store for him.
:D-->
The Limb Boss was of course, comfortably sequestered in his hotel room thinking, dispensing wisdom, setting up Tee times with big contributors, golf clubs in the corner. He had a few of his Limb staffers and gofers who I think had already been bent over and individually reamed for not having enough tissues on the desk, or something like that, I forget all the details but there were things that were wrong that day, real wrong, spiritually wrong, things no grown man with a decent pair of functioning testicles could tolerate or do his job without. You know, insulting stuff that was tantamount to spiritually snipping off his nads, one pube at a time. Oh, it was bad, real bad.
Anyway, words were being exchanged and I looked up for a moment and saw the looks on the faces of the other people in the room and realized they were about to be exposed to a train wreck of mammoth proportions and were still rubbing their own severely abused posteriors.
So I did the only right thing - I looked at them and said to the Limb Czar "I'd like to talk to you alone about this if that's alright". It got quiet for a sec and he said "Fine". And they trooped out of the room, single file.
No witnesses.
:P-->
The rest of the details are fuzzy.
:)--> I think it ended up okay.
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socks
To add - I never wanted to subject other people to these in-family cat fights. Just because some Limb guy has his panties in a wad because their not silky enough on his little butt that day doesn't mean I'm going to iron them for him. But a lot of people couldn't handle that, they'd assume that arguing with The Man or The Woman was wrong under any circumstances, no matter what. And it was hard to sort through things sometimes in close quarters with people you had to still try and work with. Eventually I realized I couldn't work with these people anyway, no matter what, so it wasn't worth trying. But I preferred not having a bunch of people listening, judging, people who were usually going to be all too happy to massage the Leaders...ego later.
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Abigail
Here's one that was said to my ex "control your wife".
Even he, as waybrained as he was, walked away scratching his head and wondering how on earth he was supposed to control another human being. AND that, my friends, is the beginning of how abuse can begin in a marriage.
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outandabout
Some believers in the area decided to barbecue in their back yard. Then they invited some other people, then they thought, "Hey, let's invite Mot and Barq too! (the branch leaders)
WELL, they were rightfully REPROVED by branch leader Mot because it was wrong spiritual PROTOCOL to invite him LAST.
We also put on a surprise birthday party for said branch leader, and were royally reproved later for the party not being good enough and not showing enough respect to BL and BL's wife.
I think at one point BL's wife had nowhere to sit and no one jumped up to give her one.
They cancelled the Sunday morning fellowships to punish us.
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rascal
What punks, what arrogant pukes.
They sure missed the boat on what Jesus`s definition of *protocol* ie the greatest leader being greatest servant....washing of feet...etc
Anybody want to go back and enjoy a little *fellowship* with these pseudo Christian *wannabees*?
It is so sad that they think that they are entitled to this.
They have SO missed the boat.
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My3Cents
In the mid 80's before they started kicking people out, I was a branch leader. One of my twig leaders was a real mental case but was putting a lot of people through the class so my boss didn't believe me when I said there was a problem. (His boss - the limb leader - later appologized after the whole thing went down).
But my immediate boss was an idiot. In one reproof session all he did was read me scriptures. Didn't say one word about why he thought those verses applied in my situation. I had already decided I didn't care what he thought so I just gave no response and left.
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excathedra
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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Belle
Some punishment, eh?
:D-->
We got in trouble because a few of us decided to do something - maybe it was bbq. Anyway, the small get-together grew and half the branch must have been there. The next fellowship meeting we got in trouble for not inviting our bc's. Then there was a rule enacted that if more than three believers were getting together to do something we had to let the bc know about it.
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