I don't believe God intended Humans to torture their food before eating... Or to consume food that was riddled with chemicals… Or to eat so much that we could barely move around… and smoke so much that we can barely breathe…
I believe God makes a way out in every situation so we’re not consumed with the ridiculous mayhem of the world~
I spose this isn't the place to talk about the rats I buy for my dog. :blink:
Sorry, Vegan. I like you. I just don't like PETA and I do think meat is good and tastes good for us and doggies.
PETA reminds me of those extremists who bomb abortion clinics and show kids pictures of abortions and fetuses and awful things children should never be exposed to. They aren't trustworthy, imo, and will do anything - ethical or not - to further their agenda.
And don't even get me started on the awful, horrible things they're doing to the AKC and other animal training lovers who like to participate in competitions, activities and field trials with their pets.
There are many, many people who feel that we were designed to consume dead animals. My suggestion would be to compare our bodies with known carnivores, like lions and bears, and with herbivores, like cows and horses. There's a sweet cartoon by Dan Piraro, creator of Bizarro comic, that shows the difference. I know of other movies, but they're VERY gruesome, and I don't know if many people can watch them all the way through. But here it is:
For me, the good that PETA does outweighs any bad. They have a low cost, mobile spay/neuter clinic that travel in low income areas, providing service for people that could never afford it. They provide free dog houses and hay, for dogs who are chained outside. Can you imagine spending your whole life crammed in an area so small that you are unable to even lift your arms? That's the life of a battery chicken, an animal that PETA fights for.
There are some over zealous activists in PETA, but you would be able to find these people in any organization. And there are many other animal rights groups, who do questionable and illegal things to promote the cause, but PETA is automatically assigned the blame because they are the biggest and the most well known.
I'm not familiar with any campaigns against the AKC. I know PETA does not feel it is ethical to breed dogs, because every newborn pup means a another dog remanins in a shelter. And I know PETA is against tail docking, and unnecessary and cruel practice. And of course against hunting. But as far as competions like agility training, there is nothing wrong there, as long as the training is done with respect and love.
I became vegan when I saw "Chew on This." I think everyone should should see "Meet Your Meat."
I know that chemicals in meat, and growth hormones are not good for you. This is why I do my best to kill and eat wild game. Up here in Alaska, I am allowed four deer a year, and I have the opportunity to hunt by proxy for the elderly. I split the meat from a deer with those whom I hunt for. The Sitka Blacktailed deer is very tasty in that they eat the most succulent of tender green vittles found in our temperate rain forest. No "sage brush mule deer" fer sher. And, I am not a carnivore, I am an omnivore, and I am thankful that God or Nature (to whomever you pay homage) gave me bicuspid teeth, which of course were designed for cutting into meat.
Now, on the subject of dogs. I have known of many a carnivorous dog to live into their upper twenties. Seems like the littler the dog, the longer they live. Big dogs just do not seem to have the longevity of the littler ones.
And, interesting that you brought up the vegan dog thing. My wife and I used to run a boarding kennel for dogs, and we got to know many many wonderful pooches. But there was this one vegan gal who used to bring in her three dalmatians who were also "vegans". But I do not believe that these dogs had any choice in the matter. She had us feed them rice, apples, and carrots. And scarf them up they did! (they were probably hungry all the time). And, these dogs made our lives as kennel operators most miserable. Because these dogs always had the runs and they shat all over their kennel run inside and out. And their slop would also run into the neighboring dogs' kennel run as well, which wasn't really too fair to the other paying customers. And of course, due to the nature of their mess, we would have to hose the kennel deck, which meant that there was a lot of wetness for the dogs and the neighboring dogs to deal with. Not cool in the winter, even though we had a heated slab. And, the gal who owned them would always leave them with us for weeks at a time. And each time that she returned, she would blame their loose bowels on the fact that they were just "nervous" from being left at the kennel. But geez their messes were just disgusting.
Well finally, after she left them with us on about the fourth time, against my wifes' wishes, I fed those dogs some Science Diet meat protein dog food, and, they loved it. And, after two days, their stools firmed up, and they did not crap nearly as much anymore, and I was so relieved, as was my wife. And, I did get busted by my wife when she noticed that the dogs were happier, and not strittling their foul excrement all over their kennel run anymore, but rather were leaving a "normal pile". But, she also approved. And they quit barking and whining like they normally did too. And then, when we would get word that the woman would be coming back, a few days before the scheduled pick up, I'd put them back on their rice/apples/carrots diet so that they would be their "normal", miserable, foul smelling selves in time for the lady to take on home.
And so, I wasn't inmpressed. I think dogs decended from wolves, and I know that our very healthy wolf population up here just thrives on torturing and then eating still living moose until they are dead and consumed. Oh yeah, I saw a video clip of some wolves killing a moose. It took them three days to kill this tortured moose, and they began to feed on her even while she (it was a cow moose) was still alive. She fought valiantly, but in the end, they got her. Really sad for me, because I am kind of a "mush", and wanted her to stomp all of those wolves to death, or at least get away. I have also seen a video of a wolf helping a mother caribou "give birth". Yup, that old wolf just snatched up that youngun as it was coming into this old world. Tender vittles, that...
Personally, when I kill any game, I always pray to God for "one shot, one kill", and I pray that the crittur be dead before I get up to it. And, I have been successful at this. I do not squeeze off a round until I know that I have the deer or moose in the kill zone of my scope. And boom! Badabing! Down they go, and a heck of a lot faster than the way those damned wolves do it anyway. A well placed bullet is way more humane than fangs, or an arrow....
Ya know, I think it is wonderful if a person wants to be a vegan. But just like alot of things, they should keep it to themselves or at least not "preach it", unless asked for more info once the subject comes up... :)
Now now Scooterpop, our Thread Author has not been militant at all. And discussion of the subject is just fine. And when it comes to meat, there really is some bad things done to it during processing that is well worth becoming knowledgeable about....
Scooterpop, the all caps in both your posts is equivalent to yelling. (As to your "Leave the rest of us alone" comment, ya didn't have to read this thread, if you didn't agree with it, the title was quite clear!)
FWIT, I didn't feel Vegan was pushing opinions or beliefs on me, any more than anyone else on this thread. This could be an explosive topic, but so far people have been pretty civil with each other. Maybe the PETA folks Vegan knows are nice people and not at all militant--we don't know them! (Are all people that are against abortions-- abortion clinic bombers?)
I love meat, too, but agree with Jonny--we really ought to be more aware of what we are eating!
I BLESS MY FOOD FOR LIFE HEALTH AND STRENGTH AND I HAVEN'T HAD ANY ISSUES IN LIFE SO FAR..
BLESS YOU ALL,
Damn, Scooterpop, I am absolutely starving! I'd love a big slab of prime rib right now myself! That and some asparagus spears with hollandaise sauce, and a big ol Idaho baked potato with lots of butter, sour cream, chives, salt, pepper, and some Spike. And some dinner rolls of some sort. And all the while drinking a frosty mug or two of Alaskan Amber beer!
And what would make it all better would be if Cool Chef did the honors by preparing it...
I'll bet you do a nice prime rib, dontcha CoolChef?
And hey, Scooterpop, I understand about being preached at by those who believe that their way of life is better than my own. I don't like it one bit. But, it didn't quite seem that Vegan was doing that....Anyhoo, cheers all!
And oh yeah, because I know that alot of the food we eat came from alot of places, we too ask God to bless our food, because there is just no way to know everything that is going on in the "food world....."
ok i just watched meet your meat and it was very inhumane
but i will have eggs in the morning
i agree that it could be done in a more humane way
i don't know how but it should be looked into but i am going to enjoy my dead cow tonight and i will have a nice cold glass of milk with a cookie for a midnight snack and... jonny lingo will have a few nice lobsters the first of Nov.
jonny you have to cook them live! can you do that? lol
No problem! I cook up Dungeness crab all the time live. But what is amazing to me is that you will ship them live? Cool!
Dungies are great, because they are way bigger than blue crabs, and very plentiful here. In fact, there is a veritable army of them right off the docks of our salmon hatchery where we pump the grindings of the played out salmon once we harvest the eggs and sperm to start the hatching of baby salmon. And some of the guys who dive out there to move or unclog our grinder line say that there is a ton of crab, as well as lots of big halibut. The motto of the MaCauley Salmon hatchery where I work is "Enough To Go Around", and this even includes the crabs, the halibut, the local minks (I see them every morning, the thieving little buggers! They steal the fingerlings from this one "net pen"!), and also the local seals and sea otters. Everybody gets a piece of the pie, including the bears, the eagles, commercial fishermen, the ravens, seagulls, the Japanese (they love the caviar) and all the way up and down the line. I really do dig working at a place that has such a positive impact...
Aww geez Cool, I am so sorry about that. I do know just how hard it is to have a friend who loses a son. And ya know, I remember reading that that plane went down, but, it happens so often up here, that I just thought; "Damn, another plane down and another Family shattered..." I had no idea that I would learn of a connection between me and one of my friends. And, you are a friend Brother, and I will still pray for you and your friend and your families....Vaya Con Dios,
CoolChef- I am so sorry about your friend. Love to you. And your friend.
DMiller-I told everyone at work your humanitarian joke. LOL! I'm still chuckling.
As far as God giving Noah animals to eat, yes, he did. But doesn't verse 4 make the eating of flesh impossible? (I'm not trying to be arguementative, I really don't know. Every time I've been to the supermarket, I see bloody slabs for sale. And I've never been hunting.) Either way, God's original desire was for everyone to eat vegetarian, even our carnivorous dogs, which can be done today, as evidenced by the newspaper articles. (Gen. 1:29&28)
And to everyone- I think you are an awesome, amazing, wonderful, loving, group of people.
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SafariVista
Thank you VeganXTC, enjoyed reading that story
:)
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dmiller
If vegetarians eat vegetables ---
what do humanitarians eat??
:blink:
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VeganXTC
DMiller, LOL!
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coolchef
sorry i believe that god intended dogs and humans to eat meat
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SafariVista
Meet You Meat
I don't believe God intended Humans to torture their food before eating... Or to consume food that was riddled with chemicals… Or to eat so much that we could barely move around… and smoke so much that we can barely breathe…
I believe God makes a way out in every situation so we’re not consumed with the ridiculous mayhem of the world~
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Bluzeman
I agree with coolchef. And that "Meet your Meat" thing is nothing but propaganda from PETA, an organization that I truely despise.
Rick
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outandabout
My dog likes carrots.
He's not a vegetarian, though.
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Belle
I spose this isn't the place to talk about the rats I buy for my dog. :blink:
Sorry, Vegan. I like you.
I just don't like PETA and I do think meat is good and tastes good for us and doggies.
PETA reminds me of those extremists who bomb abortion clinics and show kids pictures of abortions and fetuses and awful things children should never be exposed to. They aren't trustworthy, imo, and will do anything - ethical or not - to further their agenda.
And don't even get me started on the awful, horrible things they're doing to the AKC and other animal training lovers who like to participate in competitions, activities and field trials with their pets.
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VeganXTC
There are many, many people who feel that we were designed to consume dead animals. My suggestion would be to compare our bodies with known carnivores, like lions and bears, and with herbivores, like cows and horses. There's a sweet cartoon by Dan Piraro, creator of Bizarro comic, that shows the difference. I know of other movies, but they're VERY gruesome, and I don't know if many people can watch them all the way through. But here it is:
For me, the good that PETA does outweighs any bad. They have a low cost, mobile spay/neuter clinic that travel in low income areas, providing service for people that could never afford it. They provide free dog houses and hay, for dogs who are chained outside. Can you imagine spending your whole life crammed in an area so small that you are unable to even lift your arms? That's the life of a battery chicken, an animal that PETA fights for.
There are some over zealous activists in PETA, but you would be able to find these people in any organization. And there are many other animal rights groups, who do questionable and illegal things to promote the cause, but PETA is automatically assigned the blame because they are the biggest and the most well known.
I'm not familiar with any campaigns against the AKC. I know PETA does not feel it is ethical to breed dogs, because every newborn pup means a another dog remanins in a shelter. And I know PETA is against tail docking, and unnecessary and cruel practice. And of course against hunting. But as far as competions like agility training, there is nothing wrong there, as long as the training is done with respect and love.
I became vegan when I saw "Chew on This." I think everyone should should see "Meet Your Meat."
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J0nny Ling0
I know that chemicals in meat, and growth hormones are not good for you. This is why I do my best to kill and eat wild game. Up here in Alaska, I am allowed four deer a year, and I have the opportunity to hunt by proxy for the elderly. I split the meat from a deer with those whom I hunt for. The Sitka Blacktailed deer is very tasty in that they eat the most succulent of tender green vittles found in our temperate rain forest. No "sage brush mule deer" fer sher. And, I am not a carnivore, I am an omnivore, and I am thankful that God or Nature (to whomever you pay homage) gave me bicuspid teeth, which of course were designed for cutting into meat.
Now, on the subject of dogs. I have known of many a carnivorous dog to live into their upper twenties. Seems like the littler the dog, the longer they live. Big dogs just do not seem to have the longevity of the littler ones.
And, interesting that you brought up the vegan dog thing. My wife and I used to run a boarding kennel for dogs, and we got to know many many wonderful pooches. But there was this one vegan gal who used to bring in her three dalmatians who were also "vegans". But I do not believe that these dogs had any choice in the matter. She had us feed them rice, apples, and carrots. And scarf them up they did! (they were probably hungry all the time). And, these dogs made our lives as kennel operators most miserable. Because these dogs always had the runs and they shat all over their kennel run inside and out. And their slop would also run into the neighboring dogs' kennel run as well, which wasn't really too fair to the other paying customers. And of course, due to the nature of their mess, we would have to hose the kennel deck, which meant that there was a lot of wetness for the dogs and the neighboring dogs to deal with. Not cool in the winter, even though we had a heated slab. And, the gal who owned them would always leave them with us for weeks at a time. And each time that she returned, she would blame their loose bowels on the fact that they were just "nervous" from being left at the kennel. But geez their messes were just disgusting.
Well finally, after she left them with us on about the fourth time, against my wifes' wishes, I fed those dogs some Science Diet meat protein dog food, and, they loved it. And, after two days, their stools firmed up, and they did not crap nearly as much anymore, and I was so relieved, as was my wife. And, I did get busted by my wife when she noticed that the dogs were happier, and not strittling their foul excrement all over their kennel run anymore, but rather were leaving a "normal pile". But, she also approved. And they quit barking and whining like they normally did too. And then, when we would get word that the woman would be coming back, a few days before the scheduled pick up, I'd put them back on their rice/apples/carrots diet so that they would be their "normal", miserable, foul smelling selves in time for the lady to take on home.
And so, I wasn't inmpressed. I think dogs decended from wolves, and I know that our very healthy wolf population up here just thrives on torturing and then eating still living moose until they are dead and consumed. Oh yeah, I saw a video clip of some wolves killing a moose. It took them three days to kill this tortured moose, and they began to feed on her even while she (it was a cow moose) was still alive. She fought valiantly, but in the end, they got her. Really sad for me, because I am kind of a "mush", and wanted her to stomp all of those wolves to death, or at least get away. I have also seen a video of a wolf helping a mother caribou "give birth". Yup, that old wolf just snatched up that youngun as it was coming into this old world. Tender vittles, that...
Personally, when I kill any game, I always pray to God for "one shot, one kill", and I pray that the crittur be dead before I get up to it. And, I have been successful at this. I do not squeeze off a round until I know that I have the deer or moose in the kill zone of my scope. And boom! Badabing! Down they go, and a heck of a lot faster than the way those damned wolves do it anyway. A well placed bullet is way more humane than fangs, or an arrow....
Ya know, I think it is wonderful if a person wants to be a vegan. But just like alot of things, they should keep it to themselves or at least not "preach it", unless asked for more info once the subject comes up... :)
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Scooterpop
CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?.......
PEOPLE AND ORGANIZATIONS NEED TO STOP
TRYING TO FORCE FEED THEIR OPINIONS
AND THEIR AGENDAS ON EVERYONE ELSE......IF IT WORKS FOR YOU GREAT!
JUST LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE..... LEARN TO LOVE :) PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE IN LIFE...
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J0nny Ling0
Now now Scooterpop, our Thread Author has not been militant at all. And discussion of the subject is just fine. And when it comes to meat, there really is some bad things done to it during processing that is well worth becoming knowledgeable about....
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Scooterpop
DON'T GET ME WRONG I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS GETTING MILITANT....I JUST GET TIRED OF
PEOPLE PUSHING THERE OPINIONS AND BELIEFS ON PEOPLE WE ALL SEEM TO THINK WE KNOW WHATS
BEST FOR PEOPLE I HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF THIS MYSELF.....IF I WANTED TO CHANGE MY WAYS
I CERTAINLY WOULD SEEK OUT THE INFORMATION MYSELF......I HAVE LEARNED TO LOVE PEOPLE WHERE
THEY ARE IN LIFE REGARDLESS OF ANY BELIEF SYTEMS THEY MAY HAVE......
MORE POWER TO YOU IF VEGAN WORKS FOR YOU....ME I LOVE A GOOD SLAB OF PRIME RIB AND
I BLESS MY FOOD FOR LIFE HEALTH AND STRENGTH AND I HAVEN'T HAD ANY ISSUES IN LIFE SO FAR..
BLESS YOU ALL,
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Psalm 71 one
Scooterpop, the all caps in both your posts is equivalent to yelling.
(As to your "Leave the rest of us alone" comment, ya didn't have to read this thread, if you didn't agree with it, the title was quite clear!)
FWIT, I didn't feel Vegan was pushing opinions or beliefs on me, any more than anyone else on this thread. This could be an explosive topic, but so far people have been pretty civil with each other. Maybe the PETA folks Vegan knows are nice people and not at all militant--we don't know them! (Are all people that are against abortions-- abortion clinic bombers?)
I love meat, too, but agree with Jonny--we really ought to be more aware of what we are eating!
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coolchef
i eat dead animals you eat dead veggies
whats the diff carrots have feelings too!
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coolchef
i eat dead animals you eat dead veggies
whats the diff carrots have feelings too!
scuse me while i go cook some dead cow
jonny i wish it was venison
this is a very interesting thread
did i mention the poor abused dead corn on the cob?
damn i forgot they had to kill the hops for my beer and the grapes for my wine!
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J0nny Ling0
Damn, Scooterpop, I am absolutely starving! I'd love a big slab of prime rib right now myself! That and some asparagus spears with hollandaise sauce, and a big ol Idaho baked potato with lots of butter, sour cream, chives, salt, pepper, and some Spike. And some dinner rolls of some sort. And all the while drinking a frosty mug or two of Alaskan Amber beer!
And what would make it all better would be if Cool Chef did the honors by preparing it...
I'll bet you do a nice prime rib, dontcha CoolChef?
And hey, Scooterpop, I understand about being preached at by those who believe that their way of life is better than my own. I don't like it one bit. But, it didn't quite seem that Vegan was doing that....Anyhoo, cheers all!
And oh yeah, because I know that alot of the food we eat came from alot of places, we too ask God to bless our food, because there is just no way to know everything that is going on in the "food world....."
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coolchef
ok i just watched meet your meat and it was very inhumane
but i will have eggs in the morning
i agree that it could be done in a more humane way
i don't know how but it should be looked into but i am going to enjoy my dead cow tonight and i will have a nice cold glass of milk with a cookie for a midnight snack and... jonny lingo will have a few nice lobsters the first of Nov.
jonny you have to cook them live! can you do that? lol
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J0nny Ling0
No problem! I cook up Dungeness crab all the time live. But what is amazing to me is that you will ship them live? Cool!
Dungies are great, because they are way bigger than blue crabs, and very plentiful here. In fact, there is a veritable army of them right off the docks of our salmon hatchery where we pump the grindings of the played out salmon once we harvest the eggs and sperm to start the hatching of baby salmon. And some of the guys who dive out there to move or unclog our grinder line say that there is a ton of crab, as well as lots of big halibut. The motto of the MaCauley Salmon hatchery where I work is "Enough To Go Around", and this even includes the crabs, the halibut, the local minks (I see them every morning, the thieving little buggers! They steal the fingerlings from this one "net pen"!), and also the local seals and sea otters. Everybody gets a piece of the pie, including the bears, the eagles, commercial fishermen, the ravens, seagulls, the Japanese (they love the caviar) and all the way up and down the line. I really do dig working at a place that has such a positive impact...
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dmiller
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them,
Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth,
and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth [upon] the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea;
into your hand are they delivered.
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you;
even as the green herb have I given you all things.
Gen 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, [which is] the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
:)
(And now that I think of it -------------
that every MOVING thing surely is evident on FEAR FACTOR!)
:blink:
:blink:
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coolchef
yes jonny they will arrive live watch out for the dry ice it burns
by the way my buddy is still in anchorage he is returning sunday
i am still weeping
say a little prayer
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J0nny Ling0
Aww geez Cool, I am so sorry about that. I do know just how hard it is to have a friend who loses a son. And ya know, I remember reading that that plane went down, but, it happens so often up here, that I just thought; "Damn, another plane down and another Family shattered..." I had no idea that I would learn of a connection between me and one of my friends. And, you are a friend Brother, and I will still pray for you and your friend and your families....Vaya Con Dios,
JL
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coolchef
thanks jl
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VeganXTC
CoolChef- I am so sorry about your friend. Love to you. And your friend.
DMiller-I told everyone at work your humanitarian joke. LOL! I'm still chuckling.
As far as God giving Noah animals to eat, yes, he did. But doesn't verse 4 make the eating of flesh impossible? (I'm not trying to be arguementative, I really don't know. Every time I've been to the supermarket, I see bloody slabs for sale. And I've never been hunting.) Either way, God's original desire was for everyone to eat vegetarian, even our carnivorous dogs, which can be done today, as evidenced by the newspaper articles. (Gen. 1:29&28)
And to everyone- I think you are an awesome, amazing, wonderful, loving, group of people.
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