Shall we forgive them all?

[Deciderator]

I for one won't argue against that one, mainly because I can see it from Scripture.

Forgiveness may be DIFFICULT, but that does not make forgiveness WRONG.

====

Having established that (in your mind and mine, at any rate),

there was a SECOND issue, besides "simple" forgiveness.

What's your current thinking on the OTHER issue raised?

Allowing those who have sinned as much as you or I back in office?

I think that must be done on a case-by-case basis, exceppt for Tilton - he's so entertaining he should be allowed anything.

To allow someone back in power who has messed up massively would probably take revelation.

To take a popular punching bag here Craig Martindale.

I won't go into my own differences with the man, but even after what he's done I think it is possible for him to be a blessing to God's people. How and in what capacity are between him and God.

Here, what seems to be forgotten is justice must be tempered with mercy. Otherwise it is not justice.

The more we forgive, the better we become.

Forgiveness, like love, should not be doled out stingily and we should not seek any opportunity or excuse to not forgive.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Deciderator

[George Aar]

At least one of the "sinners" in the original list is rather interesting.

Peter Popoff was exposed as the charlatan and fraud that he is many years ago.

Yet he returned to do the exact same scam all over again (geeze, and I thought I was gullible!).

Yes, he's now in the midst of "Popoff repentance #2.

You can forgive anyone you like as much as you'd like. Just don't be stupid again...

[waterbuffalo]

Forgive them all? Yes, I think so.

I hold no antimosity against anyone. I believe everyone comes into our lives for a reason. Sometimes the reason is I haven't learned my lesson yet and let people walk all over me by being naieve enough to believe they are a godly person because they can quote a lot of Bible verses and discuss life seemingly intelligently.

But, I have no qualms about warning people what to expect if they bring up a particular group that I've had experience with.

[Deciderator]

At least one of the "sinners" in the original list is rather interesting.

Peter Popoff was exposed as the charlatan and fraud that he is many years ago.

Yet he returned to do the exact same scam all over again (geeze, and I thought I was gullible!).

Yes, he's now in the midst of "Popoff repentance #2.

I forgot Popoff's scam, the name rings only a faint bell.

Besides Tilton, Reverend Ike was always good for laughs.

One scam I recall from back in the day was a buncha "psychic healers" in the Philippines.

They'd do what looked like a sort of deep tissue massage but they'd do this sleight of hand and make it look as if they were actually pulling tumors right out of people's bodies!

And there would be no wound or scar where their hands had actually entered the body!

I saw it on tv and they took one of these "tumors" to be tested and it turned out to be a chicken liver.

When they confronted the witch doctors the fun really began.

And who could ever forget Flip Wilson's "Church of What's Happenin' Now"?

Edited August 7, 2007 by Deciderator

[WordWolf]

One scam I recall from back in the day was a buncha "psychic healers" in the Philippines.

They'd do what looked like a sort of deep tissue massage but they'd do this sleight of hand and make it look as if they were actually pulling tumors right out of people's bodies!

And there would be no wound or scar where their hands had actually entered the body!

I saw it on tv and they took one of these "tumors" to be tested and it turned out to be a chicken liver.

When they confronted the witch doctors the fun really began.

20/20 had some fun with that one, that I saw.

I'm aware that vpw's Advanced Class often claimed that various things WERE "spiritual"

that arguably were not. I'm under the impression that he pronounced a LOT of

scam magic tricks as legitimate demonic activity.

Anyone who took that class- can you confirm or refute that?

[T-Bone]

20/20 had some fun with that one, that I saw.

I'm aware that vpw's Advanced Class often claimed that various things WERE "spiritual"

that arguably were not. I'm under the impression that he pronounced a LOT of

scam magic tricks as legitimate demonic activity.

Anyone who took that class- can you confirm or refute that?

Yup - I remember an Advanced Class with vpw showing a video of the guy massaging the skin, opening it and removing something - - without any surgical instruments. It was at Advanced Class 78. If memory serves me right - I think it was that Philippines guy...Yeah - in depth spiritual perception alright - he piled it high and deep.

[waterbuffalo]

You can forgive anyone you like as much as you'd like. Just don't be stupid again...

You make a good point, Geo. Reminds me of a saying:

I've never been mauled by a wild animal that I wasn't at least standing close to its cage.

[rascal]

Well...yeah, forgiveness is important...the thing that I don`t get is why we think that it works any different for us then how God operates.

To my knowledge...he doesn`t ever do it until the seeker repents and asks....why would he set it up that way?? It must be an important part of the process or he would just do it automatically...right??? I have to wonder if there must be something vitally important in requiring repentance and asking first..... Why would the operation of forgiveness work any differently for us?

WOuld he tell us to repent and ask when desiring forgiveness from him...then turn around and tell us to not bother requiring the repentance and asking before we grant our forgiveness??

One verse I read...we were to forgive our brother when he repents...why would that last part be in there if it weren`t important?

[rascal]

I remember the psychic healing teachings at the adv class......lol oh yes...the people were healed by satans power....but they all died within a year....ooooooh scarey...

I about laughed my bu tt off when I saw that documentary about how they do it last year....lmao...not that it is funny that people were scammed...but that old vic really bought it and thought it was significantly spiritual enough to teach it in the oh so advanced class as some big heavy revy.

OMG...you`d think that if God was running the show, he mightta whispered in ol vp`s ear that it was a fake...snort What a dufus.

Edited August 7, 2007 by rascal

[J0nny Ling0]

I haven't read the whole thread, and it may be way off topic by now. But, the initial question about should we forgive men who did the things WW reminded of us of. My answer is YES.

I don't think that they did anything close to what the people did who conspired to murder and carry out the crucifixion of our Lord Jesus Christ. And when he was dying Jesus said;

"Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do".

To me, that example is the "end all".

But, Groucho made what was to me an intelligent statement;

I think there's a distinct difference between forgiving someone...and restoring them to their previous position of authority.

And I agree. I can forgive, but it doesn't mean that I would ever trust that person again, and certainly would not allow them a position of authority again, that is if I had any say in the matter. I also do not think that a person who has done such things should be revered for all of their good works without noting their bad works. I do not think that they should be posthumously restored to their original position of respect either.

[doojable]

I also do not think that a person who has done such things should be revered for all of their good works without noting their bad works. I do not think that they should be posthumously restored to their original position of respect either.

:eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:

[Dot Matrix]

I also do not think that a person who has done such things should be revered for all of their good works without noting their bad works. I do not think that they should be posthumously restored to their original position of respect either.

Very well stated