Which "good" going church folk are we talking about?? The same ones who believe that God is three people. The bible states as a matter of truth. Manifestations are profitable for our learning, it doesn't matter what "good" folk do. ICOR 12:7 clearly states that no matter what anybody says.
The bible is of truth there is no way around that. Good church folk believe charity is to give all the money they have ICOR 13:3 And though I bestow all my good to feed the poor and have not charity it profiteth me nothing.
More good church folk I know don't believe Manifestations are real. This is just my personal experience, but as ICOR clearly states Manifestations are profitable for believers
See, this is the consequence of hobbling your thinking into the rigid channels of doctrine.
When some church people do that, you have nothing but contempt for that,
but it's perfectly acceptable for you to do it in the meantime.
You're dismissing fellow Christians as the result of what they don't know or what
they don't understand, or misunderstand, as you see it.
However, by that reasoning, you can be dismissed just as easily for your own shortcomings in those
areas or other areas-like COMPASSION, EMPATHY and so on. Your understanding of love
has much technical data to discuss, but it excludes a true heart-understanding on the subject,
true wisdom on the subject.
There's 2 sets of Christians I know, among others.
One set wrangles on the specific meaning of Greek words, and how many times they
occur in Scripture, and so on.
The other is inept with Scripture at times, and occupies their time doing things like feeding the
hungry, and lifting up those that have been brought low.
At the end of the week, which group has acted more the way GOD wants them to act?
If your answer isn't "obviously the second group, and it's silly to even compare them",
You have Biblical evidence for SOME of your claim.
You have not supported this business involving reflection,
nor have you even explained what you mean by reflection.
Main Entry: re·flec·tion
Function: noun
Pronunciation: ri-'flek-sh&n
Etymology: Middle English, alteration of reflexion, from Late Latin reflexion-, reflexio act of bending back, from Latin reflectere
1 : an instance of reflecting ; especially : the return of light or sound waves from a surface
2 :[u] the production of an image by or as if by a mirror [/u]
3 a : the action of bending or folding back b : a reflected part : FOLD
4 : something produced by reflecting: as a : an image given back by a reflecting surface b : an effect produced by an influence <the high crime rate is a reflection of our violent society>
5 : an often obscure or indirect criticism : REPROACH <a reflection on his character>
6 : a thought, idea, or opinion formed or a remark made as a result of meditation
7 : consideration of some subject matter, idea, or purpose
8 obsolete : turning back : RETURN
9 a : a transformation of a figure in which each point is replaced by a point symmetric with respect to a line or plane b : a transformation that involves reflection in more than one axis of a rectangular coordinate system
I don't know what reflection has to do with Biblical love, but the reflection of love does make sense in Way World. They are into conditional 'love'. Think of how many people the current Way believers have 'thrown away' in their life times. How many want to get into a deep caring friendship etc with someone they'll have to M&A in a couple of years? They must stay inside thier own tiny group, reflecting the status quo.
They don't go out of their way to help anyone, unless it is mandated by leadership. Reproof and correction can be given freely, but some people(wives) need to be careful about even giving that. Love is not a shining bright active thing that transforms or changes lives. Love is a reflection of what the hierachy of leadership has deemed suitable, and everyone does the same acceptable actions called love. You don't want to stand out or be different than the group in Way world.
Which "good" going church folk are we talking about?? The same ones who believe that God is three people. The bible states as a matter of truth. Manifestations are profitable for our learning, it doesn't matter what "good" folk do. ICOR 12:7 clearly states that no matter what anybody says.
The bible is of truth there is no way around that. Good church folk believe charity is to give all the money they have ICOR 13:3 And though I bestow all my good to feed the poor and have not charity it profiteth me nothing.
More good church folk I know don't believe Manifestations are real. This is just my personal experience, but as ICOR clearly states Manifestations are profitable for believers
Greg
So you agree then, that, by your definition, these Christians that are ignorant of manifestations are unable to practice charity.
I guess then, that by your definition, you can't have charity without a completely renewed mind. Doesn't bode well for the newcomer.
I struggled with whether to put this on the "MOM" thread or here.
My Mom is one of the most loving, giving people I have ever know. Of course, my opinion is a bit biased, but I think everyone who has ever known her would nod in agreement. Greg suggested that without manifestations, that something must be flawed in this love. It just so happens that my Mom does operate manifestations and has for many years. Now here's the problem; she evidenced this same level of love and caring long before she ever spoke in tongues. How do I fit this coincidence into Greg's definition?
My parents, too, are the most giving people I know. They give of their time, money, concern, prayers and even rooms in their home for folks and they do it out of the goodness of their hearts not expecting anything in return. Neither of them speak in tongues, interpret or prophecy according to the ways that TWI taught. Are those things not considered charity? Are they not considered "good samaritans"? "good christians"
Greg, does someone have to speak in tongues to prove to you (or your mentor) that they are born again?
WordWolf and Goey are very logical, intelligent men and they present some pretty good examples, questions and concerns about the assumptions of you and your mentor. Is attacking them instead of engaging them in meaningful dialog considered "charity" in your book? Calling people names? Insulting them instead of offering valid support for your statements? Not any kind of charity or god I want part of if you're teaching by example of what the god you believe in teaches. <_<
My parents, too, are the most giving people I know. They give of their time, money, concern, prayers and even rooms in their home for folks and they do it out of the goodness of their hearts not expecting anything in return. Neither of them speak in tongues, interpret or prophecy according to the ways that TWI taught. Are those things not considered charity? Are they not considered "good samaritans"? "good christians"
Greg, does someone have to speak in tongues to prove to you (or your mentor) that they are born again?
WordWolf and Goey are very logical, intelligent men and they present some pretty good examples, questions and concerns about the assumptions of you and your mentor. Is attacking them instead of engaging them in meaningful dialog considered "charity" in your book? Calling people names? Insulting them instead of offering valid support for your statements? Not any kind of charity or god I want part of if you're teaching by example of what the god you believe in teaches. <_<
Well let us decide what to measure a "christian" by, the world or the bible. My choice well always be the bible.
Greg
This is for Wordwolf and Slick
We should reflect the love we have
with one another, putting off the old man,
putting on the mind of Christ. Sharing manifestations
for the profit of the believers and non- believers.
The Love:
1. John 3:16 For God Loved us
2. Deu 6:5 We should love God
3. John 13:34 Love one another this is where the reflection must come in
Renewal:
1. Eph 4:22-24 putting on the new man and putting off the old man
2. Rom 13:14 Put ye on the mind of Christ
Manifestation:
1. ICor 12:7 Manifestation is for the profit of Believers
All in all
ICor 13 is how Charity is to be performed
Therefore I have biblical evidence for the quote.
Greg
Am I missing something here this is Biblical quotes isn't it
" 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?"
putting on the mind of Christ. Sharing manifestations
for the profit of the believers and non- believers.
The Love:
1. John 3:16 For God Loved us
2. Deu 6:5 We should love God
3. John 13:34 Love one another this is where the reflection must come in
Renewal:
1. Eph 4:22-24 putting on the new man and putting off the old man
2. Rom 13:14 Put ye on the mind of Christ
Manifestation:
1. ICor 12:7 Manifestation is for the profit of Believers
All in all
ICor 13 is how Charity is to be performed
Therefore I have biblical evidence for the quote.
Groggy Boy,
I perceive that you are not well schooled in debate, hermeneutuics, exegesis, or even basic logic. Too bad, since you seem to be of at least average intelligence.
When an assertation is made, the burden of "proof" falls upon the one making the assertation not upon those who might question or dispute it. You should have learned that in Jr High School - ( I assume you attended that far ?)
The above quote represents a laughble and feeble attempt at "proof" for such a bold assertation.
All you did was regurgitate some scripture references and declare by fiat that they support your "definition." --- No exegesis, no exposition, no explanation of how these references imply your definition or what inferrences were made to come to the conclusion that "this is the true meaning of Charity" --- a most bold claim, rivaling even some of VPW's outlandish assertations and definitions.
Your "evidence" only shows that the quote is scripture based, (scripture can be foisted) and miserably fails to show why these verses when paraphrased and integrated into a small paragraph communicates "the true meaning of Charity".
No dice Groogo, --- That dog won't hunt. You gotta do much better than kindergarten level proof and a string of assorted logical fallacies to make your case. Otherwise consider doing what some others around here have done and and just delcare that "God told me", which then exempts you from any rational explanation or burden of proof.
Manifest love by eating steak (Genesis 27:4) and Reuben sandwiches (Genesis 29:32). Do not get a haircut, even when nagged (Judges 16:15). Nuts and fruits are in the valley (Song of Solomon 6:11)
Manifest love by eating steak (Genesis 27:4) and Reuben sandwiches (Genesis 29:32). Do not get a haircut, even when nagged (Judges 16:15). Nuts and fruits are in the valley (Song of Solomon 6:11)
The following definition of love is from The New International CK/Gregorian Self-Mentoring Bible:
I CKGregorinthians 123
1. Because Charity rhymes with clarity my message is clear.
2. In my world evil doers do not exist.
3. If perchance you find they still exist – renew your mind.
4. Renew your mind by renewing your subscription to TWI’s magazine.
5. My kind of Charity never thinketh.
6. So whether there is logic – it shall fail, common sense – it shall cease, the manifestations of intelligence – they shall vanish away. Then you will experience my kind of Charity – but won’t know it!
The following definition of love is from The New International CK/Gregorian Self-Mentoring Bible:
I CKGregorinthians 123
1. Because Charity rhymes with clarity my message is clear.
2. In my world evil doers do not exist.
3. If perchance you find they still exist – renew your mind.
4. Renew your mind by renewing your subscription to TWI’s magazine.
5. My kind of Charity never thinketh.
6. So whether there is logic – it shall fail, common sense – it shall cease, the manifestations of intelligence – they shall vanish away. Then you will experience my kind of Charity – but won’t know it!
Somebody give Ribeye a round of applause. So you really think that what I said does not agree with KJV 100%. So if the writings that were written were wrong would the bible be wrong to?? No I don't expect you to really understand. You know some people just can't get it.
Everything that was said no only agrees it fits for everyone's life. This is not just something to say it is something to live by. Living with this saying will show your loved ones and people around you the love you have within. The nice thing is that it is a matter of Truth. Truth from the bible and it does not matter if you come up with a bible all by yourself it is still a matter of truth.
Though I am honored to be quoted writing a bible that is not my calling. The truth set before everyone is way to live life. The love a man has for fellow believers is just one example. No matter what you say truth is truth.
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WordWolf
See, this is the consequence of hobbling your thinking into the rigid channels of doctrine.
When some church people do that, you have nothing but contempt for that,
but it's perfectly acceptable for you to do it in the meantime.
You're dismissing fellow Christians as the result of what they don't know or what
they don't understand, or misunderstand, as you see it.
However, by that reasoning, you can be dismissed just as easily for your own shortcomings in those
areas or other areas-like COMPASSION, EMPATHY and so on. Your understanding of love
has much technical data to discuss, but it excludes a true heart-understanding on the subject,
true wisdom on the subject.
There's 2 sets of Christians I know, among others.
One set wrangles on the specific meaning of Greek words, and how many times they
occur in Scripture, and so on.
The other is inept with Scripture at times, and occupies their time doing things like feeding the
hungry, and lifting up those that have been brought low.
At the end of the week, which group has acted more the way GOD wants them to act?
If your answer isn't "obviously the second group, and it's silly to even compare them",
then you still don't get it. Knowledge puffs up.
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WordWolf
Here's one for free:
Ever wonder why the KJV renders this word "charity",
and how "charity" got associated with doing things for people who needed them done
with no hope of repayment or reward for doing them?
Ever consider that actually spending significant amounts of your time, money or both
to help others with no hope of getting repayment or reward
(which "even the publicans do") is a natural outgrowth of having God's love in your
heart, and the natural response to HAVING that love?
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greg123
Main Entry: re·flec·tion
Function: noun
Pronunciation: ri-'flek-sh&n
Etymology: Middle English, alteration of reflexion, from Late Latin reflexion-, reflexio act of bending back, from Latin reflectere
1 : an instance of reflecting ; especially : the return of light or sound waves from a surface
2 :[u] the production of an image by or as if by a mirror [/u]
3 a : the action of bending or folding back b : a reflected part : FOLD
4 : something produced by reflecting: as a : an image given back by a reflecting surface b : an effect produced by an influence <the high crime rate is a reflection of our violent society>
5 : an often obscure or indirect criticism : REPROACH <a reflection on his character>
6 : a thought, idea, or opinion formed or a remark made as a result of meditation
7 : consideration of some subject matter, idea, or purpose
8 obsolete : turning back : RETURN
9 a : a transformation of a figure in which each point is replaced by a point symmetric with respect to a line or plane b : a transformation that involves reflection in more than one axis of a rectangular coordinate system
Sure hope that helps,
Greg
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Bramble
I don't know what reflection has to do with Biblical love, but the reflection of love does make sense in Way World. They are into conditional 'love'. Think of how many people the current Way believers have 'thrown away' in their life times. How many want to get into a deep caring friendship etc with someone they'll have to M&A in a couple of years? They must stay inside thier own tiny group, reflecting the status quo.
They don't go out of their way to help anyone, unless it is mandated by leadership. Reproof and correction can be given freely, but some people(wives) need to be careful about even giving that. Love is not a shining bright active thing that transforms or changes lives. Love is a reflection of what the hierachy of leadership has deemed suitable, and everyone does the same acceptable actions called love. You don't want to stand out or be different than the group in Way world.
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VeganXTC
Wow, that's really beautiful. And humbling.
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DrtyDzn
So you agree then, that, by your definition, these Christians that are ignorant of manifestations are unable to practice charity.
I guess then, that by your definition, you can't have charity without a completely renewed mind. Doesn't bode well for the newcomer.
Jerry
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waysider
I struggled with whether to put this on the "MOM" thread or here.
My Mom is one of the most loving, giving people I have ever know. Of course, my opinion is a bit biased, but I think everyone who has ever known her would nod in agreement. Greg suggested that without manifestations, that something must be flawed in this love. It just so happens that my Mom does operate manifestations and has for many years. Now here's the problem; she evidenced this same level of love and caring long before she ever spoke in tongues. How do I fit this coincidence into Greg's definition?
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Belle
Waysider,
My parents, too, are the most giving people I know. They give of their time, money, concern, prayers and even rooms in their home for folks and they do it out of the goodness of their hearts not expecting anything in return. Neither of them speak in tongues, interpret or prophecy according to the ways that TWI taught. Are those things not considered charity? Are they not considered "good samaritans"? "good christians"
Greg, does someone have to speak in tongues to prove to you (or your mentor) that they are born again?
WordWolf and Goey are very logical, intelligent men and they present some pretty good examples, questions and concerns about the assumptions of you and your mentor. Is attacking them instead of engaging them in meaningful dialog considered "charity" in your book? Calling people names? Insulting them instead of offering valid support for your statements? Not any kind of charity or god I want part of if you're teaching by example of what the god you believe in teaches. <_<
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greg123
Well let us decide what to measure a "christian" by, the world or the bible. My choice well always be the bible.
Greg
Am I missing something here this is Biblical quotes isn't it
Greg
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Belle
It was a simple "yes" or "no" question, Greg.
If they don't speak in tongues, you consider them to NOT be born again?
Another "yes" or "no" question.... You consider your behavior on this thread to be an example of "charity" and how a "christian" should act?
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mstar1
Why do they have to prove to anyone whether or not they are christians?
Last I heard being a christian was having a relationship with God,
not jumping through hoops to prove it to people and becoming a people pleaser
Peoples actions make their beliefs apparent.
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WordWolf
James 2:15-16
" 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?"
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templelady
I have considered long what IMO charity is before posting---
In Mo's world
Charity means doing service for others,
Doing service for others even when they may not be your favorite people
Doing service for others even when you get no atta girl, thank you, or visible reward
Charity is not lip service or good feelings or good intentions
Charity is action
Faith without works is dead
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Goey
Groggy Posted:
Groggy Boy,
I perceive that you are not well schooled in debate, hermeneutuics, exegesis, or even basic logic. Too bad, since you seem to be of at least average intelligence.
When an assertation is made, the burden of "proof" falls upon the one making the assertation not upon those who might question or dispute it. You should have learned that in Jr High School - ( I assume you attended that far ?)
The above quote represents a laughble and feeble attempt at "proof" for such a bold assertation.
All you did was regurgitate some scripture references and declare by fiat that they support your "definition." --- No exegesis, no exposition, no explanation of how these references imply your definition or what inferrences were made to come to the conclusion that "this is the true meaning of Charity" --- a most bold claim, rivaling even some of VPW's outlandish assertations and definitions.
Your "evidence" only shows that the quote is scripture based, (scripture can be foisted) and miserably fails to show why these verses when paraphrased and integrated into a small paragraph communicates "the true meaning of Charity".
No dice Groogo, --- That dog won't hunt. You gotta do much better than kindergarten level proof and a string of assorted logical fallacies to make your case. Otherwise consider doing what some others around here have done and and just delcare that "God told me", which then exempts you from any rational explanation or burden of proof.
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Oakspear
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Oakspear
My definition of charity/agapao:
Manifest love by eating steak (Genesis 27:4) and Reuben sandwiches (Genesis 29:32). Do not get a haircut, even when nagged (Judges 16:15). Nuts and fruits are in the valley (Song of Solomon 6:11)
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Goey
Well done Oak ......
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cdbloch
One of the key things I learned from my TWI experience is:
Don't trust anyone with a complicated definition for love.
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coolchef
hi ck woops meant greg
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T-Bone
The following definition of love is from The New International CK/Gregorian Self-Mentoring Bible:
I CKGregorinthians 123
1. Because Charity rhymes with clarity my message is clear.
2. In my world evil doers do not exist.
3. If perchance you find they still exist – renew your mind.
4. Renew your mind by renewing your subscription to TWI’s magazine.
5. My kind of Charity never thinketh.
6. So whether there is logic – it shall fail, common sense – it shall cease, the manifestations of intelligence – they shall vanish away. Then you will experience my kind of Charity – but won’t know it!
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rascal
Good idea cdbloch and pretty sound advice.
Welcome to greasespot!
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greg123
Somebody give Ribeye a round of applause. So you really think that what I said does not agree with KJV 100%. So if the writings that were written were wrong would the bible be wrong to?? No I don't expect you to really understand. You know some people just can't get it.
Everything that was said no only agrees it fits for everyone's life. This is not just something to say it is something to live by. Living with this saying will show your loved ones and people around you the love you have within. The nice thing is that it is a matter of Truth. Truth from the bible and it does not matter if you come up with a bible all by yourself it is still a matter of truth.
Though I am honored to be quoted writing a bible that is not my calling. The truth set before everyone is way to live life. The love a man has for fellow believers is just one example. No matter what you say truth is truth.
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WordWolf
So, he's admitting he doesn't even have the verses on his side.
That's an amazing level of candor!
This is funny, coming from who it's coming from. Of all the people to criticize my understanding,
it's usually the ones whose OWN understandings are shallow, easily befuddled,
and locked into preconceived notions that are the quickest to accuse me of the same.
As for aphorisms like using phrases like "Truth is truth" to argue against doing
acts of mercy for others, I direct some of you to
I Corinthians 2:4 (KJV)
"And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words."
This is a FASCinating verse in the Greek because of 2 words there.
"Beguile". In the Greek, "paralogizomai".
Not "logizomai", which is logical and follows the paths of reason,
but "PARA-logizomai", like how parallel lines don't meet,
and "paralogizomai" doesn't intersect with LOGIC.
"Enticing words". In the Greek, "pithanologias".
"Logias" are words, and we've all heard our share of "pithy sayings".
They're the SLOGANS that are often confused for SOLUTIONS, ANSWERS
and THINKING.
So, Paul warned against people who would introduce clever slogans and
nifty phrases, and try to talk people out of right action and right doctrine.
Of course, some slogans are more clever than others, and some sales pitches
are more effective than others.
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krys
Love isn't love until you give it away.
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