Charity

[greg123]

Well I was working on the subject of defining Charity- Now everyone knows that Dr would say The love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation. Well I came up with a definition of that

We should reflect the love we have

with one another, putting off the old man,

putting on the mind of Christ. Sharing manifestations

for the profit of the believers and non- believers.

That really captured my attention when I wrote that out, I believe this is the true meaning of Charity.

Greg

[Oakspear]

Greg, buddy, i don't know if your definition is "right", but if it works for you, then "great!".

Congratulations on starting to put waybrain behind you

[Kit Sober]

Adding my Welcome, also Greg123 :)

Agreeing with Oakspear :)

Once we begin to let go of the the pat phrases (which imho pat our minds into numbness) the Holy Spirit is able to begin to speak to us about how He views things -- and because each of us knows in part only, we find that others have their touch of Him which may not be verbatim our viewpoint, yet both are from Him -- Ohmygoodnesscanthisbeso?

Charity is one of my favorites. When looked at it as an unlabeled word, it can be filled with the kindness of the Holy Spirit.

"love" (which most versions currently translate agape) is more of a defined word and, for me, it's easier for my mind to have "charity" as a silly putty shaped word that fills up all the cracks and crevices of need with the Lord's kindness. (It's not just opening a hospital in Uganda or Mother Theresa's home for the dying in India, but the kindness and whole-hearted sacrifices of the people who make these places live.)

[Out There]

Greg - Looks to me like you hit the nail on the head! nice def,

[waysider]

Love is a verb and a verb connotes action.

OOPS!------------now we'll have to define"action".

HAHAHA.

[Oakspear]

Love is a verb and a verb connotes action.

i always hated when they said that. "Love" can be a noun too. And what about 'sit" and "sleep" - not much action being connoted there, eh?

[WordWolf]

Then there's verbs like "seems", "appears",

or "be", "is", and "was",

none of which need necessarily burn any calories or require deep thought.

=====

As for a "working definition" or a "rule of thumb", Greg,

that sounds fine.

Please keep in mind that the thing is ADVISORY and not an UNCHANGEABLE RULE.

So, you're not compelled to make everything conform to it.

The forcing of square pegs into round holes is lazy, damaging, and typical of

much of the "education" of a "good" wayfer.

(Not even getting into what the corps endured.)

[greg123]

Then there's verbs like "seems", "appears",

or "be", "is", and "was",

none of which need necessarily burn any calories or require deep thought.

=====

As for a "working definition" or a "rule of thumb", Greg,

that sounds fine.

Please keep in mind that the thing is ADVISORY and not an UNCHANGEABLE RULE.

So, you're not compelled to make everything conform to it.

The forcing of square pegs into round holes is lazy, damaging, and typical of

much of the "education" of a "good" wayfer.

(Not even getting into what the corps endured.)

Say What??

Could you repeat that in English please there is to much roundabout in this message.

Greg

[krys]

Whenever I heard that definition repeated ver batum it always sounded like just so many words.

I looked up the definition of "manifestation" and came away with a working definition (to me it worked) as "out here in the real world where somebody can see it". Then it made sense to me: Living life out in the open (no behind closed doors secrets) with my actions coming out of my heart for God and the "works" that I do being governed by "Scripture".

Of course it didn't always come out that way - - but I think I came a whole lot closer to the intent of that phrase than any of the bot's or bod's or mog's of their time. At least I gave it my best shot.

[Goey]

God is love.

Charity (love) can no more be defined in a few lines than you can define God himself.

With both however, you know/understand when you see and experience them.

I doubt "manefestations" have very much at all to do with true "charity" seeing as how they can be used/operated without it. ( 1 Cor 13)

Edited September 19, 2006 by Goey

[johniam]

Keep in mind Corinthians is a reproof epistle. Chapter 13 lists 16 characteristics about charity, 9 of which say what charity is NOT.

I think it's important to point out that God's love is usually different than the love promoted in the world. Both Neil Young and Sting have songs which say that love can break your heart. Not God's love. And of course Tina Turner says love is a second hand emotion in that song of her's. Again, not God's love.

[WordWolf]

Say What??

Could you repeat that in English please there is to much roundabout in this message.

Greg

I'll explain it for you.

Then there's verbs like "seems", "appears",

or "be", "is", and "was",

none of which need necessarily burn any calories or require deep thought.

I was continuing the discussion. We were discussing someone's claim that a

verb required ACTION, but there are "passive verbs", verbs that do not

require action. I was pointing that out.

Someone's definition of "verbs" limited their understanding and left out

some verbs that didnt fit their neat little definition.

As for a "working definition" or a "rule of thumb", Greg,

that sounds fine.

Please keep in mind that the thing is ADVISORY and not an UNCHANGEABLE RULE.

So, you're not compelled to make everything conform to it.

The forcing of square pegs into round holes is lazy, damaging, and typical of

much of the "education" of a "good" wayfer.

(Not even getting into what the corps endured.)

This was addressing your original post, where you asked what people thought

of your definition.

I was saying it was not bad when used as a "rule of thumb", but it was

needlessly restrictive if you wanted to make it the SOLE rule for defining "love".

I also pointed out that people making any "rule of thumb" into the DEFINING

rule for ANYTHING tends to lead to misunderstandings.

Life doesn't fit in neat little definitions like we were taught it does,

and God does NOT live in any box or remain confined to any definition we can

find for Him.

Got it now?

[WordWolf]

Keep in mind Corinthians is a reproof epistle.

That's what vpw said, because that's what Bullinger said.

It looks neat on a chart, and sounds learned.

However, I question whether there's sufficient evidence to say that with

authority.

One could just as easily argue it's the doctrinal epistle of the manifestation

of the spirit, or declares the doctrine of the "Gathering Together".

Chapter 13 lists 16 characteristics about charity, 9 of which say what charity is NOT.

I agree, it does.

This does not make this a "reproof" epistle necessarily, since

discussions of what something IS often include what it is NOT.

pfal did this at all 3 levels when discussing the 9.

pfal was not a class of "reproof."

It was supposedly "a class on keys", if you believe itself.

Limiting yourself ONLY to the explanations in pfal means you limit yourself

ONLY to the answers and understanding of pfal.

[Raf]

Ooh! Grammar! Can I, pleaaaase?

Okay, types of verbs:

Transitive:

These are verbs that are done to something or someone else. The often connote action, but that's not a requirement.

Example: "I love you."

Love is the verb. The subject is I, and the object receiving the action of the verb is you. This works for a lot of verbs: I smack you. I hate you. I eat real pizza.

Intransitive: These are verbs that do not take objects. They make sense all by themselves. If I were to say "I smacked," you would want to know who or what I smacked. That's because smack is transitive. But "I slept" is different. You don't sleep something. You just sleep. That's an intransitive verbs.

Some verbs can be transitive or intransitive. Love, for example. The mark of a true Christian is that he loves. Loves what? If you answer that question, the verb is transitive. If you don't, it's intransitive.

Then we have...

Linking verbs: These are verbs that, by definition, don't connote action. In elementary school, you probably heard these referred to as "state of being" verbs, which is handy but not always applicable. For example: You smell funny. This is referring to the stench you give off, and is a linking verb. You're not really doing anything. You're just sitting there, stinking.

The interesting thing is, linking verbs are ALWAYS followed either by nouns or adjectives. If it's a noun, it's always to be expressed as a subject (I, he, she), not an object (me, him, her). Which is why the correct question to ask when someone knocks at your door is "WHO is it?" You don't say "WHOM is it?" because whom is an object, not a subject. And the correct answer to the question is, "It is I," even though most of us say, incorrectly, "It is me." Saying "It is I" would be grammatically correct, but it may also subject you to physical abuse once you come through the door, as no human being really talks like that.

There's no such thing as a passive verb: passive is a matter of sentence construction.

For example, if someone grabs a gun, points it out the window and shoots someone in the street, you'd say "A sniper shot a man on Main Street." In this case, the action denoted by the verb is performed by the subject.

However, let's say the person who is shot is someone important. Then you'd switch to the passive voice:

The president was shot by a sniper at Dealy Plaza.

What's the verb? "was shot." By fidgeting with the construction, we have made it so that the person who performed the shooting is no longer the subject of the sentence.

This paragraph is for the experts: "was shot" is neither transitive nor intransitive. "Was" is a linking verb. Sometimes you'll hear the terms "main verb" and "auxiliary verb." This happens when you take a linking verb and attach it to a participle, a verb acting as an adjective (in this case, "shot"). Remember, linking verbs are always followed by a noun or an adjective. "Main verbs" are usually participles that require a linking verb to make sense. You wouldn't say "I walking to the store." You need an auxiliary verb: "I was walking to the store."

Blah blah blah.

Where does love fall?

As a verb, it is either transitive, meaning you love something or someone, or intransitive, meaning you're just a loving guy or gal.

In short: Verbs connote action? Often. Not always. Interesting choice of words, though. It would be flagrantly incorrect to say verbs denote action, because a denotation is a literal meaning. But connotation is different: connotation is what you sort of read into it, reasonably. So to say "believe is a verb, and a verb connotes action" is correct as far as "believe" is concerned. But it's not as right if you say "Is is a verb, and a verb connotes action," although you could have a terrific discussion about what it means "to be." It's more correct to say "believe is a verb that connotes action."

Was that more than anyone wanted to know?

[LG]

I believe that Mars is a planet. What action does that connote?

[pond]

is.

mars is NOT a planet any more is it?

[rascal]

Mars isn`t a planet since since WHEN????

Guess this grammatical stuff is wayt beyond me :blink:

Edited September 19, 2006 by rascal

[T-Bone]

In the Power For Astronomical Logistics class we learn that astronauts literally believe Mars is a planet – indicated by their action toward the planet. As far as everyone else – “they don’t do much interplanetary travel because of their unbelief.” :blink:

[dmiller]

is.

mars is NOT a planet any more is it?

Pond --- you're thinking of Pluto. That's the one that got *de-planetized*.

Edited September 19, 2006 by dmiller

[dmiller]

Ooh! Grammar! Can I pleaaaase?

Is it Can, or May? Or is it both -- as in Maycan?

(used in a sentence ---)

"Mom, maycan Georgia come over for supper tonight?"

And this one ALMOST slipped by unnoticed ---

Example: "I love you."

Love is the verb. The subject is I, and the object receiving the action of the verb is you.

This works for a lot of verbs: I smack you. I hate you. I eat real pizza.

:blink: :blink:

(I humbly retreat to my hillbilly hideout -- to link the transitive and intransitive passively.

All verbs need to live as one -- give passive a chance.

I think John Lennon said that in a song somewhere!)

Edited September 19, 2006 by dmiller

[Oakspear]

Ooh! Grammar! Can I, pleaaaase?

Okay, types of verbs:

Transitive:

These are verbs that are done to something or someone else. The often connote action, but that's not a requirement.

Example: "I love you."

Love is the verb. The subject is I, and the object receiving the action of the verb is you. This works for a lot of verbs: I smack you. I hate you. I eat real pizza.

Intransitive: These are verbs that do not take objects. They make sense all by themselves. If I were to say "I smacked," you would want to know who or what I smacked. That's because smack is transitive. But "I slept" is different. You don't sleep something. You just sleep. That's an intransitive verbs.

Some verbs can be transitive or intransitive. Love, for example. The mark of a true Christian is that he loves. Loves what? If you answer that question, the verb is transitive. If you don't, it's intransitive.

Then we have...

Linking verbs: These are verbs that, by definition, don't connote action. In elementary school, you probably heard these referred to as "state of being" verbs, which is handy but not always applicable. For example: You smell funny. This is referring to the stench you give off, and is a linking verb. You're not really doing anything. You're just sitting there, stinking.

The interesting thing is, linking verbs are ALWAYS followed either by nouns or adjectives. If it's a noun, it's always to be expressed as a subject (I, he, she), not an object (me, him, her). Which is why the correct question to ask when someone knocks at your door is "WHO is it?" You don't say "WHOM is it?" because whom is an object, not a subject. And the correct answer to the question is, "It is I," even though most of us say, incorrectly, "It is me." Saying "It is I" would be grammatically correct, but it may also subject you to physical abuse once you come through the door, as no human being really talks like that.

There's no such thing as a passive verb: passive is a matter of sentence construction.

For example, if someone grabs a gun, points it out the window and shoots someone in the street, you'd say "A sniper shot a man on Main Street." In this case, the action denoted by the verb is performed by the subject.

However, let's say the person who is shot is someone important. Then you'd switch to the passive voice:

The president was shot by a sniper at Dealy Plaza.

What's the verb? "was shot." By fidgeting with the construction, we have made it so that the person who performed the shooting is no longer the subject of the sentence.

This paragraph is for the experts: "was shot" is neither transitive nor intransitive. "Was" is a linking verb. Sometimes you'll hear the terms "main verb" and "auxiliary verb." This happens when you take a linking verb and attach it to a participle, a verb acting as an adjective (in this case, "shot"). Remember, linking verbs are always followed by a noun or an adjective. "Main verbs" are usually participles that require a linking verb to make sense. You wouldn't say "I walking to the store." You need an auxiliary verb: "I was walking to the store."

Blah blah blah.

Where does love fall?

As a verb, it is either transitive, meaning you love something or someone, or intransitive, meaning you're just a loving guy or gal.

In short: Verbs connote action? Often. Not always. Interesting choice of words, though. It would be flagrantly incorrect to say verbs denote action, because a denotation is a literal meaning. But connotation is different: connotation is what you sort of read into it, reasonably. So to say "believe is a verb, and a verb connotes action" is correct as far as "believe" is concerned. But it's not as right if you say "Is is a verb, and a verb connotes action," although you could have a terrific discussion about what it means "to be." It's more correct to say "believe is a verb that connotes action."

Was that more than anyone wanted to know?

[Raf]

I believe that Mars is a planet. What action does that connote?

We can play the exception game with just about any word.

Believe doesn't denote action, but it connotes action. That is, people act on what they believe. If you saw a book that purported to be genuinely scientific, but its main premise was that Mars is not a planet and the moon really is made of green cheese, you would not buy it. That is, you would reject it, an action. You would reject anyone who said Mars is not a planet, at least as an astronomy resource. So while no action is denoted by that belief, potential actions are there.

Some beliefs are easier than others when it comes to dreaming up potential corresponding actions.

Edited September 19, 2006 by Raf

[lindyhopper]

In short: Verbs connote action? Often. Not always. Interesting choice of words, though. It would be flagrantly incorrect to say verbs denote action, because a denotation is a literal meaning. But connotation is different: connotation is what you sort of read into it, reasonably. So to say "believe is a verb, and a verb connotes action" is correct as far as "believe" is concerned. But it's not as right if you say "Is is a verb, and a verb connotes action," although you could have a terrific discussion about what it means "to be." It's more correct to say "believe is a verb that connotes action."

Was that more than anyone wanted to know?

No, I am a nerd when it comes to some things and you must be a card carrying member.

Although, wouldn't "believe" both connote action and inaction?

Edited September 19, 2006 by lindyhopper

[waysider]

Perhaps I'm showing my age, but I was merely jesting when I suggested we might have to define "action".

Back in the day, the word "action" had a meaning of its' own. Maybe this was a local expression . I'm not sure. We would say something like: "It's Friday night, I just got paid and I'm ready to find some 'action'."

When people would say "love is a verb,etc., there were those who would secretly snicker at the implication.

And for goodness sake! Does noone realize Mars is not a planet? It's a candy bar!

[LG]

We can play the exception game with just about any word.

Playing is exactly what I was doing, Raf.