That is a tough one...trying to figure out that if a God that we can not figure out even exists had a hand in the destruction of the Gulf Coast, or did this possible God just let it happen. Then, if that God did let it happen or make it happen would It want us to help those people who are in serious need or let them rot away? Hmmm. Or, if this said God had the control to make the hurricane hit the evil New Orleans wouldn't said God have the power to wipe out all those that It wanted to? The same would go for allowing these same people to be wiped out or barely saved. Then what would this God want us to do with the left overs? Did he want some people to die in the hurricane and others to die slowly afterward or did he want to ruin the lives of many of the living and have the rest of us pick up the pieces? Boy, the questions could just keep coming when not knowing what a possible all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present God would want.
I sure am glad I don't have to deal with that. I just care about people, no matter their size, color, sex, or geograpihcal location. I decide to help when I can, where I can and when I feel I can make a difference.
I do know, as does anyone, that there are alot of people who suffered and many who are still suffering and that the city is a wreck
there is no guess work in that.
How are you supposed to treat your neighbor?
Or as a concerned christian, as you obviously are, what is your general response to human suffering?
Good Samaritan type stuff? something else?
If you are first at the scene of a car wreck do you stop and analyze all the spiritual whys from every angle before helping the victims?
The questions all seem sort of irrelevant to me, either your moved by some sort of compassion or empathy or identification to help in a situation or your not.
Those other unknowables only serve as a mental distraction to divert energy away from a response of yes or no--Which is up to you.
BUT Im also not so stupid to not see that there is also alot of sham charities, graft , and pockets being lined by the unscrupulous who are taking advantage of the tragedy and peoples desire to help for their own personal benefit. I doubt that I would give to anyone who knocked on my door without checking them out first and questioning them thoroughly first--especially if I dont know them.
Personally Ive been giving but is to people that I have known for years and have started a small charity with a very sizable chunk of their own funds that they cant really afford. I trust them and I know exactly where very dime I give ends up---If thats against "Gods Will" then screw him-I wouldnt want him anyway
The reality is this: There was a strong hurricane. There was a city with weak levees. The hurricane caused problems for the levees, and the city was flooded. Good people and bad people both lost a lot. It was a disaster that our country isn't used to seeing too often. It's a damn shame that the city didn't pay closer attention to the levee problem. Maybe the city wouldn't have been so affected by the hurricane if the levees were stronger.
Maybe if you had family who were victims of this disaster, you would want to help them. But the choice is up to you. You have to feel like you want to. If you feel it in your heart, then you feel convicted to do whatever is in your heart. If you don't feel it, then you won't.
I don't think it matters whether we think God caused it, or whether we think God wants it rebuilt. People will do what they are convicted to do. Some will say it was God leading them, and some won't.
The more I get away from twi, the more I stop spiritualizing things liek this. I no longer believe countries who get devastated by earthquakes got devastated because they were "unbelieving". It happened because there was a big a$$ earchquake, and their building weren't built with the engineering a lot our country's buildings are. No spiritual decision to make in that. God loves all people.
After I closed the door it struck me that is almost exactly what would happen if God allowed it in the first place. Would God want us to help even though he had to let it happen in the first place??
If God is, hmmm, "God" and is all of the things usually ascribed to Him - creator who is able to make something out of "nothing", knows all, sees all, all the time everywhere at once, bigger than big, eternal, etc. etc. -
then there are a lot of things God "lets" happen, for whatever reasons. LOTS of things. More things than He actually does directly it would appear.
If I broke a leg trying to ski at 120 mph on a 2 X 4, that would qualify as breaking a few rules. Should my leg heal? Should a doctor set it, should I receive pain-killers? If me and my 2 X 4 hit you, and you broke 4 ribs and both arms, should you be treated?
It begs the question - are things like stupidity, lack of common sense and pride sins? I can think of bible verses for "pride", but none off the top of my head for stupidtiy. Couple for ignorance, but that might not be my fault. Still, do I need a sign on a ski slope saying "don't be stupid"....? Maybe that's what humanity needs - some big billboards in the sky that would carry that kind of instruction. "Please - do not use rocks for flotation devices, nor are they to be worn as hats or any kind of underwear". Start with the simple stuff and see how that goes for awhile.
If God "let" Kartina happen, he lets a lot of bad things happen and a lot of the time to people who are doing just dandy in God's eyes, at least to hear them tell it. Weird, huh?
wayfer-maybe I used the wrong word---after coming out of TWI ...whoda thunk that something so simple and (ono!).... biblically accurate.... could have ever eluded us in the first place.
It still seems to not be apparent to some wierwillians
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lindyhopper
That is a tough one...trying to figure out that if a God that we can not figure out even exists had a hand in the destruction of the Gulf Coast, or did this possible God just let it happen. Then, if that God did let it happen or make it happen would It want us to help those people who are in serious need or let them rot away? Hmmm. Or, if this said God had the control to make the hurricane hit the evil New Orleans wouldn't said God have the power to wipe out all those that It wanted to? The same would go for allowing these same people to be wiped out or barely saved. Then what would this God want us to do with the left overs? Did he want some people to die in the hurricane and others to die slowly afterward or did he want to ruin the lives of many of the living and have the rest of us pick up the pieces? Boy, the questions could just keep coming when not knowing what a possible all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present God would want.
I sure am glad I don't have to deal with that. I just care about people, no matter their size, color, sex, or geograpihcal location. I decide to help when I can, where I can and when I feel I can make a difference.
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mstar1
Maybe.
I do know, as does anyone, that there are alot of people who suffered and many who are still suffering and that the city is a wreck
there is no guess work in that.
How are you supposed to treat your neighbor?
Or as a concerned christian, as you obviously are, what is your general response to human suffering?
Good Samaritan type stuff? something else?
If you are first at the scene of a car wreck do you stop and analyze all the spiritual whys from every angle before helping the victims?
The questions all seem sort of irrelevant to me, either your moved by some sort of compassion or empathy or identification to help in a situation or your not.
Those other unknowables only serve as a mental distraction to divert energy away from a response of yes or no--Which is up to you.
BUT Im also not so stupid to not see that there is also alot of sham charities, graft , and pockets being lined by the unscrupulous who are taking advantage of the tragedy and peoples desire to help for their own personal benefit. I doubt that I would give to anyone who knocked on my door without checking them out first and questioning them thoroughly first--especially if I dont know them.
Personally Ive been giving but is to people that I have known for years and have started a small charity with a very sizable chunk of their own funds that they cant really afford. I trust them and I know exactly where very dime I give ends up---If thats against "Gods Will" then screw him-I wouldnt want him anyway
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Oakspear
God speaks through Ray Nagin
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Nottawayfer
Thinking too hard? I think so.
The reality is this: There was a strong hurricane. There was a city with weak levees. The hurricane caused problems for the levees, and the city was flooded. Good people and bad people both lost a lot. It was a disaster that our country isn't used to seeing too often. It's a damn shame that the city didn't pay closer attention to the levee problem. Maybe the city wouldn't have been so affected by the hurricane if the levees were stronger.
Maybe if you had family who were victims of this disaster, you would want to help them. But the choice is up to you. You have to feel like you want to. If you feel it in your heart, then you feel convicted to do whatever is in your heart. If you don't feel it, then you won't.
I don't think it matters whether we think God caused it, or whether we think God wants it rebuilt. People will do what they are convicted to do. Some will say it was God leading them, and some won't.
The more I get away from twi, the more I stop spiritualizing things liek this. I no longer believe countries who get devastated by earthquakes got devastated because they were "unbelieving". It happened because there was a big a$$ earchquake, and their building weren't built with the engineering a lot our country's buildings are. No spiritual decision to make in that. God loves all people.
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mstar1
gees ---what a nouvelle idea
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rascal
So if you don`t give to the people...give to the animals...We organized a semi truck load of hay, feed and veterenary supplies for the animals.
Give where you are moved, don`t if you are not ...shrug
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Nottawayfer
????
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socks
If God is, hmmm, "God" and is all of the things usually ascribed to Him - creator who is able to make something out of "nothing", knows all, sees all, all the time everywhere at once, bigger than big, eternal, etc. etc. -
then there are a lot of things God "lets" happen, for whatever reasons. LOTS of things. More things than He actually does directly it would appear.
If I broke a leg trying to ski at 120 mph on a 2 X 4, that would qualify as breaking a few rules. Should my leg heal? Should a doctor set it, should I receive pain-killers? If me and my 2 X 4 hit you, and you broke 4 ribs and both arms, should you be treated?
It begs the question - are things like stupidity, lack of common sense and pride sins? I can think of bible verses for "pride", but none off the top of my head for stupidtiy. Couple for ignorance, but that might not be my fault. Still, do I need a sign on a ski slope saying "don't be stupid"....? Maybe that's what humanity needs - some big billboards in the sky that would carry that kind of instruction. "Please - do not use rocks for flotation devices, nor are they to be worn as hats or any kind of underwear". Start with the simple stuff and see how that goes for awhile.
If God "let" Kartina happen, he lets a lot of bad things happen and a lot of the time to people who are doing just dandy in God's eyes, at least to hear them tell it. Weird, huh?
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mstar1
wayfer-maybe I used the wrong word---after coming out of TWI ...whoda thunk that something so simple and (ono!).... biblically accurate.... could have ever eluded us in the first place.
It still seems to not be apparent to some wierwillians
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dmiller
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