That's an awesome video and story, excathedra. I really like that song too. Those are more inspirational than any boring bible teaching I ever sat in.
I got in the ministry in Feb 1974 after a long drug binge and immediatly they took me to HQ where the first thing we saw was Ted singing and doing his thing at a little place in Minster. I thought I was having an acid flashback.
That song "I Can Only Imagine" must have been inspired by God, because it has had a huge impact (from what I have heard from MercyMe itself and from what I heard from secular radio stations that played it). Give their other songs a listen, the band is pretty good. Their new CD is called "Coming Up to Breathe" and has a whole lot more to it than the average contemporary Christian music/lyrics.
And whatever happened with Ken McCaw? He was supposed to be headed for writing movie scores last time I heard quite a few years ago.
Unfortunately, that is my recollection toward the end, as well. In the earlier days it was: if you were on the stage, we were all in it together. But when I got to HQ (mid-late 80s) most of the 'big names' (snort) would walk right past the rest of us without a word. We were just so many plants to make them look better. Even folks I had known in their humbler days acted like this. Ridiculous!!
Musicians on stage, doing their best for what they believed in -- yea --
Thats all I ever really cared about, So there were no Joni Mitchells, or James Taylors,and it wasnt 'great' there is a certain appeal to me of music that is genuine and honest and not packaged and refined as a 'product'.
I'd much rather see someone strumming a banjo on a back porch who genuinely loves it and feels it than a technically better musician who has a canned and phony 'performance' anyway-
Somewhere along the line ( it goes to the way theology) anything that was genuine and worthwhile got pushed out and killed , the shell that was left pretty much was empty
In the olden days (like arely 1900's) music was almost always a personal activity. People played and sang at home, in their local church or town. And talent levels varied (same was true for furniture making, cooking and many other crafts). Very few were ever exposed to real professional level talent.
As technology changed and travel became more affordable more and more people could experience real professionals to the point where today we can hear and see them any time on our mobile phones.
In the 60's and 70's the folk and rock movements encouraged a bit of return to enjoying that personal level of music. It has since dissappeared. But early days of Way music was like that. Some skill and talent and lots of excitement and enjoyment.
As the way got more legalistic, they crowded out raw excitement in favor of people who would succumb to the rules. And this they preferred much more than talent.
I remember an album that was put out by Sue Pierce and Lynn Perrigo called "Timothy"...
Great songs and vocals...but they never "shot it through" the twi prism of censorship and control and they were pushed out the back door...
...Another example of how Wierwille insisted that everything was to be be controlled by him...I remember his arrogant rhetoric of "teaching" musicians how to be "right on" spiritually. What a crock of sh *t...
...Irregardless of how much talent they had or didn't have, twi musicians were never allowed to explore the depth of their inspirations without the cornfield preacher standing over them with the hammer.
Groucho----------Ditto on "Timothy". I still have a copy that I spin from time to time. I really like the total sound of it and never bothered to evaluate it's "accuracy". There was also a non TWI group that attracted lots of attention at that time called GLASS HARP. We would go to their concerts and try to win the lead guitarist,Phil Keagy, over to the TWI way of thinking. It was definately a trophy type of thinking on our part. Some of their/his work is still out there and available. He is/was a very talented musician who seemed to borrow from a classical background. He found the JCING thinking a great stumbling block.
Another memorable effort from that era is O THEOPHILUS by a group called Hope.( TWI but not HQ sanctioned) Lynn and Sue are mentioned in the special thanks credits.
i don't know about the when, but the why is because the leaders got more and more involved. the more they injected their "spiritual perspective" into what the musicians did, the worse it got. it's sprawled out's law.
case in point, when i was in residence, i played in a pretty hot band. we had four good singers, and two strong lead vocalists. it didn't take long for one of the corps coordinators to pull me aside and suggest splitting the two strong singers up into two different groups--even though it was the combination that made the band as good as it was. THAT'S the kind of thing that happened all the time, and brought everything down to that vanilla level. it was like there was a fear of excellence. in music, anyway.
(for the record, when i was asked what i thought of the coordinators' suggestion, i said i thought it sucked. amazingly, they backed off and never mentioned it again. of course, no one paid heed to our suggestion of sending us all out to the same area after graduation--THAT would've been too smart!)
I'd much rather see someone strumming a banjo on a back porch who genuinely loves it and feels it than a technically better musician who has a canned and phony 'performance' anyway-
Somewhere along the line ( it goes to the way theology) anything that was genuine and worthwhile got pushed out and killed , the shell that was left pretty much was empty
I concur!
TWI took the heart out of the music and the folks who wanted to express themselves through their music. They kill something genuine and then build rules around it and expect folks to duplicate what came naturally. You just can't force that kind of stuff. It's painfully obvious when they do go to great lengths like that.
I remember at the Advanced Class there were some men with incredibly awesome voices and contagious exuberance. They would sing impromptu whenever we had breaks and they started a few sing alongs where everyone was drawn to the area and sang with joy in their hearts and smiles on their faces.... just a wonderful time - unscheduled, unplanned and unstructured. Well, Mosquedo and the other leaders put a real ugly spin on that and stopped all the fun. You could feel the air in the room deflate while Mosquedo went off on his tirade in the cafeteria.
It's not just the music they've done that to, either. It's the fun things -gatherings, game nights, coffee houses, etc. Anything TWI does now is just going through the motions, not really full of any feelings, genuine love, care, concern, glory to God, etc. They try to fake hillside sing alongs, but it's just hollow, fake and leaves you empty and longing for the days when those things were real and filling.
Sprawled: Well, I dug the hell out of that tape. Still have it. Less than a year ago I played the song Faithful at a branch sized gathering and I'm considering doing Building the wall sometime. What instrument did you play and who was the guy with the really low voice who wrote the song about his grandpa?
I think there must've been a lot of pressure on way prod groups to conform to TWI speak, but there was still a small window of possibility to express your group personality. IMO Called out maximized that opportunity.
i thought we were somewhat unique, particularly for an in-residence band--though listening back, i hear where we watered it down and compromised. but we had a lot of fun, even though we had to get up at 4 am to rehearse!
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
6
3
4
5
Popular Days
Sep 8
21
Sep 9
12
Sep 10
8
Sep 13
6
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 6 posts
TheHighWay 3 posts
johniam 4 posts
sprawled out 5 posts
Popular Days
Sep 8 2006
21 posts
Sep 9 2006
12 posts
Sep 10 2006
8 posts
Sep 13 2006
6 posts
excathedra
ok i'm nuts but bear with me
this is the new song that touched my heart regarding jesus:
I can only imagine
What it will be like
When I walk
By your side
I can only imagine
What my eyes will see
When your face
Is before me
I can only imagine
Surrounded by Your glory, what will my heart feel
Will I dance for you Jesus or in awe of you be still
Will I stand in your presence or to my knees will I fall
Will I sing hallelujah, will I be able to speak at all
I can only imagine
I can only imagine
When that day comes
And I find myself
Standing in the Son
I can only imagine
When all I will do
Is forever
Forever worship You
I can only imagine
I can only imagine
When all I will do
Is forever, forever worship you
*****
but this is my favorite.....
When the rain is blowing in your face
And the whole world is on your case
I could offer you a warm embrace
To make you feel my love
When the evening shadows and the stars appear
And there is no one there to dry your tears
I could hold you for a million years
To make you feel my love
I know you haven't made your mind up yet
But I would never do you wrong
I've known it from the moment that we met
No doubt in my mind where you belong
I'd go hungry, I'd go black and blue
I'd go crawling down the avenue
There's nothing that I wouldn't do
To make you feel my love
The storms are raging on the rollin' sea
And on the highway of regret
The winds of change are blowing wild and free
You ain't seen nothing like me yet
I could make you happy, make your dreams come true
Nothing that I wouldn't do
Go to the ends of the earth for you
To make you feel my love
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
ok so what when dylan sings to me, i think of jesus
Link to comment
Share on other sites
igotout
That's an awesome video and story, excathedra. I really like that song too. Those are more inspirational than any boring bible teaching I ever sat in.
I got in the ministry in Feb 1974 after a long drug binge and immediatly they took me to HQ where the first thing we saw was Ted singing and doing his thing at a little place in Minster. I thought I was having an acid flashback.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
alleycat
That song "I Can Only Imagine" must have been inspired by God, because it has had a huge impact (from what I have heard from MercyMe itself and from what I heard from secular radio stations that played it). Give their other songs a listen, the band is pretty good. Their new CD is called "Coming Up to Breathe" and has a whole lot more to it than the average contemporary Christian music/lyrics.
And whatever happened with Ken McCaw? He was supposed to be headed for writing movie scores last time I heard quite a few years ago.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
Anyone know if this Ken McCaw on ZoomInfo is "our" Ken McCaw?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jardinero
One and the same Ken McCaw.
J.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
YIdon'tgotochurch
I always thought the singin' lady's need to oil their hip sockets a little more. Especially the larger ladies.
I did appreciate the hamonies performed by the "Prod". But they were more egotistical than most LCs I knew. They were extemely "unapproachable".
I always felt like there was very little "beef" in the music.
I don't think they were like what I'm about to say.... but their appearance was as though the singing ladies were starting a 'women's Lib' movement.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
QUOTE: "extremely unapproachable"
Unfortunately, that is my recollection toward the end, as well. In the earlier days it was: if you were on the stage, we were all in it together. But when I got to HQ (mid-late 80s) most of the 'big names' (snort) would walk right past the rest of us without a word. We were just so many plants to make them look better. Even folks I had known in their humbler days acted like this. Ridiculous!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Thats all I ever really cared about, So there were no Joni Mitchells, or James Taylors,and it wasnt 'great' there is a certain appeal to me of music that is genuine and honest and not packaged and refined as a 'product'.
I'd much rather see someone strumming a banjo on a back porch who genuinely loves it and feels it than a technically better musician who has a canned and phony 'performance' anyway-
Somewhere along the line ( it goes to the way theology) anything that was genuine and worthwhile got pushed out and killed , the shell that was left pretty much was empty
Link to comment
Share on other sites
My3Cents
In the olden days (like arely 1900's) music was almost always a personal activity. People played and sang at home, in their local church or town. And talent levels varied (same was true for furniture making, cooking and many other crafts). Very few were ever exposed to real professional level talent.
As technology changed and travel became more affordable more and more people could experience real professionals to the point where today we can hear and see them any time on our mobile phones.
In the 60's and 70's the folk and rock movements encouraged a bit of return to enjoying that personal level of music. It has since dissappeared. But early days of Way music was like that. Some skill and talent and lots of excitement and enjoyment.
As the way got more legalistic, they crowded out raw excitement in favor of people who would succumb to the rules. And this they preferred much more than talent.
That's my 2 cents (and one for inflation)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
I remember an album that was put out by Sue Pierce and Lynn Perrigo called "Timothy"...
Great songs and vocals...but they never "shot it through" the twi prism of censorship and control and they were pushed out the back door...
...Another example of how Wierwille insisted that everything was to be be controlled by him...I remember his arrogant rhetoric of "teaching" musicians how to be "right on" spiritually. What a crock of sh *t...
...Irregardless of how much talent they had or didn't have, twi musicians were never allowed to explore the depth of their inspirations without the cornfield preacher standing over them with the hammer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
By the way here is something new from Ken McCaw if anyone is interested
Here
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Groucho----------Ditto on "Timothy". I still have a copy that I spin from time to time. I really like the total sound of it and never bothered to evaluate it's "accuracy". There was also a non TWI group that attracted lots of attention at that time called GLASS HARP. We would go to their concerts and try to win the lead guitarist,Phil Keagy, over to the TWI way of thinking. It was definately a trophy type of thinking on our part. Some of their/his work is still out there and available. He is/was a very talented musician who seemed to borrow from a classical background. He found the JCING thinking a great stumbling block.
Another memorable effort from that era is O THEOPHILUS by a group called Hope.( TWI but not HQ sanctioned) Lynn and Sue are mentioned in the special thanks credits.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
It all depends on whether you gather a group of talented people together and encourage them to showcase God and his glory
OR if you gather a group of people together and demand that they showcase TWI and it non-existent glory.
The former is sure to be a success the latter well..........
Link to comment
Share on other sites
alleycat
also the lead singer from Sawyer Brown reminds me of Dan Moran.
BTW - this video was featured as part of the sermon at my church today!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheInvisibleDan
The old guy with the hat who played the saw.
I recall seeing him at every Rock carrying his saw case.
Played a saw with a violin bow.
Amazing stuff.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
allan w.
Sing it Dave ? was one of my favorites, Dave Lutz ( i think it was) to me anyway, had a way of singing that touched my heart.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sprawled out
i don't know about the when, but the why is because the leaders got more and more involved. the more they injected their "spiritual perspective" into what the musicians did, the worse it got. it's sprawled out's law.
case in point, when i was in residence, i played in a pretty hot band. we had four good singers, and two strong lead vocalists. it didn't take long for one of the corps coordinators to pull me aside and suggest splitting the two strong singers up into two different groups--even though it was the combination that made the band as good as it was. THAT'S the kind of thing that happened all the time, and brought everything down to that vanilla level. it was like there was a fear of excellence. in music, anyway.
(for the record, when i was asked what i thought of the coordinators' suggestion, i said i thought it sucked. amazingly, they backed off and never mentioned it again. of course, no one paid heed to our suggestion of sending us all out to the same area after graduation--THAT would've been too smart!)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
Sprawled: Were you in Called out?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sprawled out
johniam--
yup!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
I concur!
TWI took the heart out of the music and the folks who wanted to express themselves through their music. They kill something genuine and then build rules around it and expect folks to duplicate what came naturally. You just can't force that kind of stuff. It's painfully obvious when they do go to great lengths like that.
I remember at the Advanced Class there were some men with incredibly awesome voices and contagious exuberance. They would sing impromptu whenever we had breaks and they started a few sing alongs where everyone was drawn to the area and sang with joy in their hearts and smiles on their faces.... just a wonderful time - unscheduled, unplanned and unstructured. Well, Mosquedo and the other leaders put a real ugly spin on that and stopped all the fun. You could feel the air in the room deflate while Mosquedo went off on his tirade in the cafeteria.
It's not just the music they've done that to, either. It's the fun things -gatherings, game nights, coffee houses, etc. Anything TWI does now is just going through the motions, not really full of any feelings, genuine love, care, concern, glory to God, etc. They try to fake hillside sing alongs, but it's just hollow, fake and leaves you empty and longing for the days when those things were real and filling.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
Sprawled: Well, I dug the hell out of that tape. Still have it. Less than a year ago I played the song Faithful at a branch sized gathering and I'm considering doing Building the wall sometime. What instrument did you play and who was the guy with the really low voice who wrote the song about his grandpa?
I think there must've been a lot of pressure on way prod groups to conform to TWI speak, but there was still a small window of possibility to express your group personality. IMO Called out maximized that opportunity.
Edited by johniamLink to comment
Share on other sites
sprawled out
thanks, john, glad you liked it.
i thought we were somewhat unique, particularly for an in-residence band--though listening back, i hear where we watered it down and compromised. but we had a lot of fun, even though we had to get up at 4 am to rehearse!
i played guitar, and that guy is sandy sanders.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
I really liked that band/tape called out as well...one of our favorites.
We have lost our copy in the last few years.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.