My mom was a psychologist and the "magical thinking" of believing equals receiving set her warning alarms off! Unfortunately she died while I was still in my early days of TWI. And, unfortunately, she and I did not have a great relationship, so I often didn't listen to her well.
But in this instance I can say for sure, "My mother was right and I sure wish I had listened to her."
Seriously. If Jesus was who he said he was, it's impossible for mere humans to follow in his steps...or, as twi taught, take his place. To even try is an effort in futility...even according to the bible. (Our mind is an enmity against God and such other verses.)
Did Jesus do a complete job? If so, then one must simply accept the gift...and stop trying to 'perfect' it.
Thank you.
You are right, CW, Jesus did do a complete job! We are NOT suppossed to do the job, we are suppossed to LIVE in the freedom and grace that His job did for us!
All God wants is for us to have a relationship with HIM and His son. LOVE HIM.
It's not about works!
Having said that, when you love Him and want to live in His love then, you will just do things naturally.
See, the glory should go to GOD, not man.
And every time we ''try'' we are giving glory to ''ourselves''. ("look what I did, I served, I strung chairs, I taught, I lead fellowship, I witness, I , I, I !") It keeps going.
Where was the point were we ''arrived?"
That is why, we could never measure up. Doing it for rewards in heaven or points with the leadership. (((sigh))
That is not what God expects from us.
Now, I allow God to work through me, He gets the glory. No pressure.
Jesus calls us friends. Jesus gave up His life for us all of us.
I think of the example in scripture of who Jesus Christ was as a standard of how to make healthy choices in life.
I believe a personal relationship with Jesus today is just that personal, to be shared with His bride.
It isnt a competition God made ,it is a family, a kingdom for HIs KING of KIngs. It is a love thing.
Jesus Christ brings us peace from the strife the world offers, we in turn can be thankful and listen to how to be "like HIM" in service to one another .
How that is done is really learned by the individual relationship one has with the LORD of all.
Twi was a people thing for many, claiming to serve God, but without a relationship with Jesus Christ only serving man , the result was often confusion and pain .
Great topic, CoolWaters ! I think something from David Burns’ Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy might be appropriate here. [You know, the first time I read this book – it occurred to me the faulty thinking patterns Burns identifies was the modus operandi of most TWI folk when I was in it…..Oh – and how weird - what a subtle way to foster depressing tendencies if you didn’t already have them.] His book promotes the use of cognitive therapy – which is basically the modification of illogical thinking patterns.
From page 32:
“…When you are depressed, you possess the remarkable ability to believe, and to get the people around you to believe, things which have no basis in reality. As a therapist, it is my job to penetrate your illusion, to teach you how to look behind the mirrors so you can see how you have been fooling yourself…Read over the following list of ten cognitive distortions that form the basis of all your depressions…”
From page 42, 43 Definitions of Cognitive Distortions:
1. All-or-Nothing Thinking: You see things in black-and-white categories. If your performance falls short of perfect, you see yourself as a total failure.
2. Overgeneralization: You see a single negative event as a never-ending pattern of defeat.
3. Mental Filter: You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it exclusively so that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that colors the entire beaker of water.
4. Disqualifying the Positive: You reject positive experiences by insisting they “don’t count” for some reason or other. In this way you can maintain a negative a negative belief that is contradicted by your everyday experiences.
5. Jumping to Conclusions: You make a negative interpretation even though there are no definite facts that convincingly support your conclusion.
6. Magnification [Catastrophizing] or Minimization: You exaggerate the importance of things [such as your goof-up or someone else’s achievement], or you inappropriately shrink things until they appear tiny [your own desirable qualities or the other fellow’s imperfections]. This is also called the “binocular trick.”
7. Emotional Reasoning: You assume that your negative emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are: “I feel it, therefore it must be true.”
8. Should Statements: You try to motivate yourself with shoulds and shouldn’ts, as if you had to be whipped and punished before you could be expected to do anything. “Musts” and “oughts” are also offenders. The emotional consequence is guilt. When you direct “should statements” toward others, you feel anger, frustration, and resentment.
9. Labeling and Mislabeling: This is an extreme form of overgeneralization. Instead of describing your error, you attach a negative label to yourself: “I’m a loser.” Mislabeling involves describing an event with language that is highly colored and emotionally loaded.
10. Personalization: You see yourself as the cause of some negative external event which in fact you were not primarily responsible for.
Love your thoughts CW. I think if I were you I would report this nurse. You were there for help with your situation and her telling you she was getting vibes about the devil from you is not in order with the treatment to help you overcome the issues you came there with. Glad you were able to brush her off.
Seems to me that religion in general produces these types of attitudes not just TWI. Maybe that's why many of us cannot face going to church.
That is an excellent post Coolwaters, I totally agree. Good food for thought.
I gave up years ago trying, via my renewed mind and believing, to become as Christ. It is as ludicrous and expecting that by careful training and nurture, my cat can acquire a human nature. No, sadly, he will always be a kitty. He cannot change his "cat" nature.
As you said, the carnal mind is enmity against God, or also, who shall deliver me from this dead body (our old man nature?). Only Christ - when we put on our new bodies and our new nature. What ever it is we are to be, ALL of creation is waiting for the manifestation of the Sons of God.
Creation cannot wait to see what will be revealed, what we will be.
Right now, we are a fallen race, all we can do is enjoy and walk in the gift of Christ's love and grace.
Someday, our true nature, and a new creation shall be revealed. Until then, just love God and enjoy life.
TWI did really put us into some strange ways of thinking.
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Abigail
Great topic, CW.
My mom was a psychologist and the "magical thinking" of believing equals receiving set her warning alarms off! Unfortunately she died while I was still in my early days of TWI. And, unfortunately, she and I did not have a great relationship, so I often didn't listen to her well.
But in this instance I can say for sure, "My mother was right and I sure wish I had listened to her."
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bliss
You are right, CW, Jesus did do a complete job! We are NOT suppossed to do the job, we are suppossed to LIVE in the freedom and grace that His job did for us!
All God wants is for us to have a relationship with HIM and His son. LOVE HIM.
It's not about works!
Having said that, when you love Him and want to live in His love then, you will just do things naturally.
See, the glory should go to GOD, not man.
And every time we ''try'' we are giving glory to ''ourselves''. ("look what I did, I served, I strung chairs, I taught, I lead fellowship, I witness, I , I, I !") It keeps going.
Where was the point were we ''arrived?"
That is why, we could never measure up. Doing it for rewards in heaven or points with the leadership. (((sigh))
That is not what God expects from us.
Now, I allow God to work through me, He gets the glory. No pressure.
IMO:0
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pond
Jesus calls us friends. Jesus gave up His life for us all of us.
I think of the example in scripture of who Jesus Christ was as a standard of how to make healthy choices in life.
I believe a personal relationship with Jesus today is just that personal, to be shared with His bride.
It isnt a competition God made ,it is a family, a kingdom for HIs KING of KIngs. It is a love thing.
Jesus Christ brings us peace from the strife the world offers, we in turn can be thankful and listen to how to be "like HIM" in service to one another .
How that is done is really learned by the individual relationship one has with the LORD of all.
Twi was a people thing for many, claiming to serve God, but without a relationship with Jesus Christ only serving man , the result was often confusion and pain .
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T-Bone
Great topic, CoolWaters ! I think something from David Burns’ Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy might be appropriate here. [You know, the first time I read this book – it occurred to me the faulty thinking patterns Burns identifies was the modus operandi of most TWI folk when I was in it…..Oh – and how weird - what a subtle way to foster depressing tendencies if you didn’t already have them.] His book promotes the use of cognitive therapy – which is basically the modification of illogical thinking patterns.
From page 32:
“…When you are depressed, you possess the remarkable ability to believe, and to get the people around you to believe, things which have no basis in reality. As a therapist, it is my job to penetrate your illusion, to teach you how to look behind the mirrors so you can see how you have been fooling yourself…Read over the following list of ten cognitive distortions that form the basis of all your depressions…”
From page 42, 43 Definitions of Cognitive Distortions:
1. All-or-Nothing Thinking: You see things in black-and-white categories. If your performance falls short of perfect, you see yourself as a total failure.
2. Overgeneralization: You see a single negative event as a never-ending pattern of defeat.
3. Mental Filter: You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it exclusively so that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that colors the entire beaker of water.
4. Disqualifying the Positive: You reject positive experiences by insisting they “don’t count” for some reason or other. In this way you can maintain a negative a negative belief that is contradicted by your everyday experiences.
5. Jumping to Conclusions: You make a negative interpretation even though there are no definite facts that convincingly support your conclusion.
6. Magnification [Catastrophizing] or Minimization: You exaggerate the importance of things [such as your goof-up or someone else’s achievement], or you inappropriately shrink things until they appear tiny [your own desirable qualities or the other fellow’s imperfections]. This is also called the “binocular trick.”
7. Emotional Reasoning: You assume that your negative emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are: “I feel it, therefore it must be true.”
8. Should Statements: You try to motivate yourself with shoulds and shouldn’ts, as if you had to be whipped and punished before you could be expected to do anything. “Musts” and “oughts” are also offenders. The emotional consequence is guilt. When you direct “should statements” toward others, you feel anger, frustration, and resentment.
9. Labeling and Mislabeling: This is an extreme form of overgeneralization. Instead of describing your error, you attach a negative label to yourself: “I’m a loser.” Mislabeling involves describing an event with language that is highly colored and emotionally loaded.
10. Personalization: You see yourself as the cause of some negative external event which in fact you were not primarily responsible for.
End of Excerpts
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CoolWaters
T-Bone wow!!!!!! Exactly what I was trying to say...except couldn't get it out quite that way. LOL
GREAT sharing!!!!
Abi...yeah...that magical thinking is usually something we grow out of at about 9 or 10...so it would send alarm warnings to someone like your mom.
Bliss...yep...I get ya. :)
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templelady
A nurse spen t1/2 and hour A twork, ranting about her particular religious philosophy to a patient and her superiors and co-workers did nothing???
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FreeAtLast
Love your thoughts CW. I think if I were you I would report this nurse. You were there for help with your situation and her telling you she was getting vibes about the devil from you is not in order with the treatment to help you overcome the issues you came there with. Glad you were able to brush her off.
Seems to me that religion in general produces these types of attitudes not just TWI. Maybe that's why many of us cannot face going to church.
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Sunesis
That is an excellent post Coolwaters, I totally agree. Good food for thought.
I gave up years ago trying, via my renewed mind and believing, to become as Christ. It is as ludicrous and expecting that by careful training and nurture, my cat can acquire a human nature. No, sadly, he will always be a kitty. He cannot change his "cat" nature.
As you said, the carnal mind is enmity against God, or also, who shall deliver me from this dead body (our old man nature?). Only Christ - when we put on our new bodies and our new nature. What ever it is we are to be, ALL of creation is waiting for the manifestation of the Sons of God.
Creation cannot wait to see what will be revealed, what we will be.
Right now, we are a fallen race, all we can do is enjoy and walk in the gift of Christ's love and grace.
Someday, our true nature, and a new creation shall be revealed. Until then, just love God and enjoy life.
TWI did really put us into some strange ways of thinking.
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