I got involved with a splinter group that turned out to be very dangerous and split my family apart. I have 4 kids and 2 are of age and when we left because of the control issues they sent people to my son's work at 17 and said your parents are evil. We havent seen them in 3 years, You have to be very careful of what you get into, Right now church has been alot more healing, at least the pastors don't try to brainwash your kids!!!! Stay away from Pat Powell, The Word centered fellowship. Jerry Carr is also associated with him, Harbour Lights in New Jersey. They run classes for Geer. They expect loyalty and I bow to no man!! I was kicked out because I questioned both of them. My husband is a geerite so he went along. Why do people follow men? I'm out with 2 of my Kids and my husband left because I 'm finished with this Idol worship from afar.
I have maintained my renewed mind by allowing the radio preachers to challenge me. In other words, I listen to this station claiming to be a "Christian" station with 24 hour preachers ( a different one every half hour). Every one from Hagee to Swindall. As they teach subjects based on "stories" and psychological self-help stuff, I grab my Bullinger and/or my 'renewed mind' and start working on their so-called logic.
As I listen, I compare what I know the verses say compared to what they think they say.
I listen in my office at home from time to time and in my truck. When I'm in my truck, it has become normal to start yelling at the dashboard. When I was in TWI, I would sing to my steering wheel.
I listened to one of these birds the other night and observed his "teaching" for 30 minutes without going to the Bible once! ! ! !
Every once in a while, I hear them stumble on something that shows scriptural insight. But it is rare.
If this is anything like churchianity, ... no thanks.
I'm still a firm believer that JCING, TDANAN, and most of the other collaterals. With that strong of a belief in those subjects, I'd feel like a priest at Hooters.
I never liked how LCM use to rant and rave about these guys on the radio.... but now, I fully understand why he did it. And I know very few will believe this.....but I think he was right......they couldn't find the bxtts in the dark with a roadmap and a flashlight. These guys will never actually try to do a word study on some of the basic stuff. They will always teach that God controls people and sin conscienceness. Idolatry runs rampant.
Christmas and Easter are the worse... mainly because they still teach the fairy tales of Christmas and the 'Charleston Heston' version of the Passover. Why put up with that in a church?
I think if I went to church, I'd end up saying something under my breath that would get me kicked out anyway.
I know someone who had been in TWI all his adult life, and attended a splinter group when he was kicked out with a bunch of others. He’s been sitting in a living room with the same kind of people, singing the same songs and hearing the same type of manifestations and teachings for over 30 years. There are seldom any new attendees. There’s no sense of community or charity there. Just the same-old same-old. He – and others like him – would have a great time going to a big, lively, active church! His social life would have a totally different outlook! But the mention of it gives him the willies.
Sounds like "church" to me
That is a strong enough reason for why I don't go to splinter groups. IMHO, many wouldn't witness in TWI and most won't witness now.
I never liked how LCM use to rant and rave about these guys on the radio.... but now, I fully understand why he did it. And I know very few will believe this.....but I think he was right......they couldn't find the bxtts in the dark with a roadmap and a flashlight. These guys will never actually try to do a word study on some of the basic stuff. They will always teach that God controls people and sin conscienceness. Idolatry runs rampant.
Again, I think it's unfair to categorize ALL churches into this category, especially the comment about "these guys will never actualy try to do a word study on some of the basic stuff". I found many churches who teach well.
YIDon't....I think you are expecting to hear the same things you heard in twi and that is the reason for your disappointment. However, I would stay away from radio evangelists because they do seem to be the traditional style pastors and preachers. When I look for a church, I actually look for one who has more of a contemporary service.
Had Churchianity for years and hated it. I would imagine that most at doing just what they want to do, fellowship with a small group. Still makes sense to me and it's what they did in Acts. Anyway for us has nothing to do with "fear" as someone put it, has everything to do with getting to know each other in a deeper way and moving the Word.
As far as doctrine, I don't believe any church or fellowship has it all but we still prefer to stay away from people believing the dead are alive and the trinitarian stuf. The rest is a walk by the Spirit of God anyway. I believe most of us here know enough of the Word to help people rather than go from church to church looking for what?
I got involved with a splinter group that turned out to be very dangerous and split my family apart. I have 4 kids and 2 are of age and when we left because of the control issues they sent people to my son's work at 17 and said your parents are evil. We havent seen them in 3 years, You have to be very careful of what you get into, Right now church has been alot more healing, at least the pastors don't try to brainwash your kids!!!! Stay away from Pat Powell, The Word centered fellowship. Jerry Carr is also associated with him, Harbour Lights in New Jersey. They run classes for Geer. They expect loyalty and I bow to no man!! I was kicked out because I questioned both of them. My husband is a geerite so he went along. Why do people follow men? I'm out with 2 of my Kids and my husband left because I 'm finished with this Idol worship from afar.
pinklady...Welcome to the Greasespot cafe! Always good to see someone's first post...I'm sorry to see that it was to report some more bad news from cult world.
I remember Pat Powell! Anybody associated with Geer should be slapped and made to stand with their nose against the wall. Why do people follow men?...probably because they are too shallow to stand on their own convictions without someone else to reinforce them for them....
I'm still a firm believer that JCING, TDANAN, and most of the other collaterals. With that strong of a belief in those subjects, I'd feel like a priest at Hooters.
I never liked how LCM use to rant and rave about these guys on the radio.... but now, I fully understand why he did it. And I know very few will believe this.....but I think he was right......they couldn't find the bxtts in the dark with a roadmap and a flashlight. These guys will never actually try to do a word study on some of the basic stuff. They will always teach that God controls people and sin conscienceness. Idolatry runs rampant.
YIDGTC- If you are in agreement with all this, then you should go to an offshoot. I have since learned that most of these ''beliefs'' were wrong. Sin conscienceness is actually a good thing.....keeps the EGO and PRIDE OUT and the HUMILITY and RELIANCE upon GOD IN! What a beatiful change.
Think about that. If you don't recognize that you are/were a sinner, then why do you need Christ? Renewed mind is DAILY and GOD does it, it's not of our OWN abilities. This is what brought the Way down in both generations......Dr.V and LCM................pride and ego.
Same with Lucifier. He thought his sh@# didn't stink and that he could do it all on his own. Seems many men have the same problem.
I too would yell at the dashboard, when I heard something contradictory to what ''I was taught''.
So, I decided to let go of all the teachings I memorized/learned from the VEY and started with a clean slate. I asked God to show me what to see and learn, and boy was I in for a surprise. I'll never say never again! OOPS , I just did. :)
Now I empty myself of all that, and let GOD fill me day by day.....
just my 2 cents
Welcome Pink Lady, sorry you had to go through that. You are in good company here.
And so sorry to hear that they approached your 17 year old son like that and told him you are evil.. But then you went on to say that you haven't seen them in three years. "Them" who? Your two older children? Or "them" the splinter group. I certainly hope the latter!
And clarify for me on this also ( I am a bit slow, sorry :) ) Was it in fact the Pat Powell/Geer group who said this to your son?
I just started attending a Synagogue here it town. It is a bit intimidating, but my fear isn't about anything LCM taught or didn't teach. My fear is with respect to allowing people into my life, who may intrude further than I wish or who may decide they have some right to run it. But I am facing that fear these days and so far have really been enjoying the services.
Absolutely! I'd rather be singing "Green Day" songs than "I Love the Lord"....
PinkLady -
Welcome
Are you in my area (I'm in Tampa)? I know someone who went through something almost identical to your situation with the same exact group. I haven't talked to her in a couple of years. After reading your post, I wonder how she's doing. Please email me at hoperich@verizon.net. Thanks
The Powell fellowships have been running here in the Tampa Bay area for several years. There used to be 4 or 5 of them, I don't know how many there are now. Yes, they are affiliated with CG.
We know several people who went seamlessly from TWI to their group. When we'd run into them, they were quite aloof. I don't know whether it was because we were still in TWI or because we weren't with them. Some of these people had been in our Twig in the 80's. I was so surprised at how cold and unfriendly they were.
When Waydale was up and running - I ran into a man who I knew from those days. I asked him if he ever went on the internet and told him a bit about what was happening. His reply was something like, "We don't talk about that stuff anymore. It's not profitable. The internet is full of garbage and we don't need to fill our minds with that." Sounded like LCM's instructions to the TWI faithful after Trancechat and Waydale appeared on the scene.
After we left TWI, I ran into someone else in a PP fellowship and let them know we'd finally gotten out of TWI and that we were attending a Methodist church. He was indifferent, cold, almost condescending - an attitude like "goody for you...". I then realized that it was because we weren't part of their group, not because of the group we were a part of. It didn't matter whether it was TWI or the Methodists - we weren't in their circle, so we didn't count and they didn't care.
The person I spoke to a couple of years ago attended one of their fellowships as well, along with her whole family. Her story was much like pinklady's. What I noticed the most was that CG's "ministry" almost ran parallel to LCM's. They had the same need for control, the same kind of paranoia and megalomania. I thought they might have done much better had they joined up together instead of going their own way. They were travelling down the same path and didn't manage to connect!
What I noticed the most was that CG's "ministry" almost ran parallel to LCM's. They had the same need for control, the same kind of paranoia and megalomania. I thought they might have done much better had they joined up together instead of going their own way. They were travelling down the same path and didn't manage to connect!
They could not unite.
Highlander Syndrome- "There Can Be Only One."
Two lions on the same hill. Think about it.
==========
Now,
someone claimed that Christian radio programs are run exclusively by know-nothings who
just push denominational doctrines.
I don't normally listen to them myself, but not for that reason.
One time, I was packing for a ministry event the night before, and had a Christian radio station
on in the background. I was concentrating on my packing, and only vaguely aware of the content
of the show. One Christian was being interviewed, and giving his opinion on a variety of
subjects from Scripture. After a few minutes of me nodding along and agreeing while packing,
I finally stopped and focused on the radio. The guy had NO connections to twi/vpw/ whoever,
but had been outlining one thing after another that I agreed with, all on different subjects.
He also mentioned in passing that he spoke in tongues more than an hour a day.
So, I'd say that guy and whoever put him on the radio, to name two,
were not fitting into the usual straitjacket of
"not twi, therefore garbage!"
======
Reminds me of that Scottish store in that Saturday Night Live skit.
...CG's "ministry" almost ran parallel to LCM's. They had the same need for control, the same kind of paranoia and megalomania. I thought they might have done much better had they joined up together instead of going their own way. They were travelling down the same path and didn't manage to connect!
There is hardly room for anyone else in the same room as CG, his ego is so big. CG wanted to run TWI instead of LCM. He was a bit more of a controller - before LCM got quite so bad at controlling.
The end result probably wouldn't be any different. CG ran Gartmore as The Way in GB (or was it The Way in the UK? - which has also collapsed) and then there was POP and the split between them. Some years later CG's outfit collapsed, leaving only unhappy and bewildered people. Just like TWI.
Anyone who goes to a CG fellowship may as well join TWI. No difference, just whose ego and whose belly you prefer to feed.
There's no doubt that those (Christians) outside anything that was NEVER connected to TWI or one of it's splinter groups have something to offer. They are born again believers, they have the spirit of God!
God has not limited himself to TWI and it's offshoots for truth and deliverance.
Having said that, the main issue I contend with in going to a Church is having to sit and listen to someone butcher the truth on any given Sunday. Do they get things right, sure they do. I go occassionally when I meet someone that is excited about their church and meet folks and see what I can learn as well as see what I can do for folks.
There is something to be said about doing your best to get to the truth with an aim towards continuing to grow. Religion is religion it tends to stagnate, whether it's got TWI's mark on it or Roman Catholic mark or whatever. The structure that VP put in place through the late 70's and into the 80's made TWI into just another religion because it allowed for the centralization of money and authority and well you know the rest of the story. I don't see this in the 1st century Church as recorded in the book of Acts.
To answer the question "what is wrong with the Church?" most are just religous organizations with "similiar" stagnated and limiting structure that ruined TWI. There's nothing new under the sun... the adversary has been squashing real movements of God for centuries. Sure there are good hearted folks in those churches, the same is true of TWI, ( I was one of them until I got out) we here just have a unique perspective on TWI that leads some to think that somehow those good hearted folks in Churches are somehow different from the ones still with TWI.
I want to be where I am challenged in my understanding of God's Word and where I can be reproved and corrected when needed. For me that is with the offshoot of my choice and it's not Geer. Dont' misunderstand I don't hold to the offshoot like I did with TWI. I get the Word I need and then I go forth and treat all of the body of Christ the same no matter what group they hang with.
Please define "butchering the truth." Do you mean by that phrase that they are teaching material contrary to the teachings of VPW or LCM? If so, I would suggest you seriously listen, given the possibility that it was VPW or LCM who was "butchering the truth." I have found that not every golden word uttered by these two socalled "apostles" was truth at all.
Example: In PFAL, expounding on the situation with David, Bathsheba, and Uriah, VPW proclaims "All the women in the kingdom belonged to the king!" Gee, I thought all the women in the kingdom belonged to God. I thought God said "Thou shalt not commit adultery." I thought David was under the same Law as everyone else. Of course, he did get his general killed so he could have Bathsheba, who was pregnant. If there were no problem with him getting her in the family way, why do that? After all, she already belonged to David the king, not Uriah, who was merely her husband?
Set me free when I heard a minister in a church say that it was sin for David to have sexual relations with Bathsheba, who was another man's wife. It was adultery, against God's law. But as I recall, VPW says the only thing David did wrong was arrange for Uriah's demise.
There's no doubt that Christians inside twi have something to offer. They are born again believers,
they have the spirit of God!
God is not restricted entirely from twi, for truth and deliverance.
Having said that, one main issue I contend with in going to a twi meeting-or that of an offshoot- is having to
sit and listen to someone butcher the truth twice a week. Do they get things right, sure they do. Can some people be excited about their fellowship? Sure they can, some do.
There is something to be said about doing your best to get to the truth with an aim towards continuing to grow. Religion is religion it tends to stagnate, whether it's got TWI's mark on it or Roman Catholic mark or whatever. The structure that VP put in place through the late 70's and into the 80's made TWI into just another religion because it allowed for the centralization of money and authority and well you know the rest of the story. I don't see this in the 1st century Church as recorded in the book of Acts.
To answer the question "what is wrong with twi?", it's just a religous organization with a stagnated and limiting structure. There's nothing new under the sun. The adversary has been squashing real movements of God for centuries. Sure there are good hearted folks in twi, the same is true of its offshoots. We here just have a unique perspective on TWI that leads some to think that somehow those good hearted folks in Churches are somehow different from the ones still with TWI.
I want to be where I am challenged in my understanding of God's Word and where I can be reproved and corrected when needed. For me that is NOT with any offshoot. Dont' misunderstand I don't hold to the offshoot like I did with TWI. I get the Word I need-and that's from OTHER Christians.
For me "butchering the truth" is teaching anything that I've worked in my mind and heart and decided I believe to be the truth.
Can I be wrong? Yes, but is it okay for a guy to believe that he can acutally get to and be sure about what he believes is the truth? I absolutely can't believe that it's any other way. Or is that egotistical in anyone's opinion? Isn't that the way it's suppossed to work?
Whether VP or LCM taught it the same as I now believe makes no difference to me but it sure seems to here at GS. I am not of VP or of Geer or of LCM. I am a believer with the spirit of God and a mind of my own. I get to use my brain and think and decide after study and contemplation what I believe the truth is. People here seem to be hyperventilating to jump on anyone who says something that happens to be the same as what TWI taught. Let me tell you it's a real turn-off.
I don't believe that TWI got everything right. I have had to discard many things that were off both doctrinally and practically. Since I enjoy CFF does that mean I'm somehow not able to enjoy other Christians? Does that mean that I can not be impartial? Does it mean that I look down on other Christians?
Some years later CG's outfit collapsed, leaving only unhappy and bewildered people. Just like TWI.
Anyone who goes to a CG fellowship may as well join TWI. No difference, just whose ego and whose belly you prefer to feed.
You might want to recheck your facts there twinky I don't think their fellowships collapsed. Gartmore house and The Way in Great Britain may have, at least it is not functioning, but Chris was an employee, It was run by a board of directors of which he was not one. Word Promotions is quite active in Scotland with an office there and just recently one here in the states. They have affiliated fellowships in most of the states I believe. And there are many differences in their teachings and the Way Int.
I don't believe that TWI got everything right. I have had to discard many things that were off both doctrinally and practically. Since I enjoy CFF does that mean I'm somehow not able to enjoy other Christians? Does that mean that I can not be impartial? Does it mean that I look down on other Christians?
I don't know, does it? I think that was OUR question FIRST.
Does one set of beliefs-to YOU-mean that all Christians with DIFFERENT beliefs are
INFERIOR, WRONG and REPUGNANT?
Some people would say yes, some people would say no, and some would mean yes
but would obscure it in a cloud of oratory.
I mean, we all think we're right, but what one says about those that are "wrong" tends to be more telling,
Your making my head heart (not literally). I feel like I'm chasing my tail trying to discuss this with you.
I know that I've been delivered from the bad attitude about church and other Christians that was impressed on me while with TWI. I know that I am doing my best to do what I believe is right in the sight of God. If you think that you see something in my posts that says otherwise your certainly entitled to your opinion.
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pinklady
I got involved with a splinter group that turned out to be very dangerous and split my family apart. I have 4 kids and 2 are of age and when we left because of the control issues they sent people to my son's work at 17 and said your parents are evil. We havent seen them in 3 years, You have to be very careful of what you get into, Right now church has been alot more healing, at least the pastors don't try to brainwash your kids!!!! Stay away from Pat Powell, The Word centered fellowship. Jerry Carr is also associated with him, Harbour Lights in New Jersey. They run classes for Geer. They expect loyalty and I bow to no man!! I was kicked out because I questioned both of them. My husband is a geerite so he went along. Why do people follow men? I'm out with 2 of my Kids and my husband left because I 'm finished with this Idol worship from afar.
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YIdon'tgotochurch
Seems appropriate for me to add my 2 cents.
I have maintained my renewed mind by allowing the radio preachers to challenge me. In other words, I listen to this station claiming to be a "Christian" station with 24 hour preachers ( a different one every half hour). Every one from Hagee to Swindall. As they teach subjects based on "stories" and psychological self-help stuff, I grab my Bullinger and/or my 'renewed mind' and start working on their so-called logic.
As I listen, I compare what I know the verses say compared to what they think they say.
I listen in my office at home from time to time and in my truck. When I'm in my truck, it has become normal to start yelling at the dashboard. When I was in TWI, I would sing to my steering wheel.
I listened to one of these birds the other night and observed his "teaching" for 30 minutes without going to the Bible once! ! ! !
Every once in a while, I hear them stumble on something that shows scriptural insight. But it is rare.
If this is anything like churchianity, ... no thanks.
I'm still a firm believer that JCING, TDANAN, and most of the other collaterals. With that strong of a belief in those subjects, I'd feel like a priest at Hooters.
I never liked how LCM use to rant and rave about these guys on the radio.... but now, I fully understand why he did it. And I know very few will believe this.....but I think he was right......they couldn't find the bxtts in the dark with a roadmap and a flashlight. These guys will never actually try to do a word study on some of the basic stuff. They will always teach that God controls people and sin conscienceness. Idolatry runs rampant.
Christmas and Easter are the worse... mainly because they still teach the fairy tales of Christmas and the 'Charleston Heston' version of the Passover. Why put up with that in a church?
I think if I went to church, I'd end up saying something under my breath that would get me kicked out anyway.
One more thing.
I don't go to a splinter group either.
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YIdon'tgotochurch
HOPE, YOU SAID,
Sounds like "church" to me
That is a strong enough reason for why I don't go to splinter groups. IMHO, many wouldn't witness in TWI and most won't witness now.
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Nottawayfer
Again, I think it's unfair to categorize ALL churches into this category, especially the comment about "these guys will never actualy try to do a word study on some of the basic stuff". I found many churches who teach well.
YIDon't....I think you are expecting to hear the same things you heard in twi and that is the reason for your disappointment. However, I would stay away from radio evangelists because they do seem to be the traditional style pastors and preachers. When I look for a church, I actually look for one who has more of a contemporary service.
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1 john 3:1
Had Churchianity for years and hated it. I would imagine that most at doing just what they want to do, fellowship with a small group. Still makes sense to me and it's what they did in Acts. Anyway for us has nothing to do with "fear" as someone put it, has everything to do with getting to know each other in a deeper way and moving the Word.
As far as doctrine, I don't believe any church or fellowship has it all but we still prefer to stay away from people believing the dead are alive and the trinitarian stuf. The rest is a walk by the Spirit of God anyway. I believe most of us here know enough of the Word to help people rather than go from church to church looking for what?
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GrouchoMarxJr
pinklady...Welcome to the Greasespot cafe! Always good to see someone's first post...I'm sorry to see that it was to report some more bad news from cult world.
I remember Pat Powell! Anybody associated with Geer should be slapped and made to stand with their nose against the wall. Why do people follow men?...probably because they are too shallow to stand on their own convictions without someone else to reinforce them for them....
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Lifted Up
Just curious Hope...do you have the same feeling about the WayProd songs you sang?
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sprawled out
pinklady:
ATTAGIRL!!
i'm sure it hasn't been easy, but doing the right thing seldom is.
(pat powell, huh? how come i'm not surprised??)
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bliss
YIDGTC- If you are in agreement with all this, then you should go to an offshoot. I have since learned that most of these ''beliefs'' were wrong. Sin conscienceness is actually a good thing.....keeps the EGO and PRIDE OUT and the HUMILITY and RELIANCE upon GOD IN! What a beatiful change.
Think about that. If you don't recognize that you are/were a sinner, then why do you need Christ? Renewed mind is DAILY and GOD does it, it's not of our OWN abilities. This is what brought the Way down in both generations......Dr.V and LCM................pride and ego.
Same with Lucifier. He thought his sh@# didn't stink and that he could do it all on his own. Seems many men have the same problem.
I too would yell at the dashboard, when I heard something contradictory to what ''I was taught''.
So, I decided to let go of all the teachings I memorized/learned from the VEY and started with a clean slate. I asked God to show me what to see and learn, and boy was I in for a surprise. I'll never say never again! OOPS , I just did. :)
Now I empty myself of all that, and let GOD fill me day by day.....
just my 2 cents
Welcome Pink Lady, sorry you had to go through that. You are in good company here.
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J0nny Ling0
And so sorry to hear that they approached your 17 year old son like that and told him you are evil.. But then you went on to say that you haven't seen them in three years. "Them" who? Your two older children? Or "them" the splinter group. I certainly hope the latter!
And clarify for me on this also ( I am a bit slow, sorry :) ) Was it in fact the Pat Powell/Geer group who said this to your son?
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Abigail
I just started attending a Synagogue here it town. It is a bit intimidating, but my fear isn't about anything LCM taught or didn't teach. My fear is with respect to allowing people into my life, who may intrude further than I wish or who may decide they have some right to run it. But I am facing that fear these days and so far have really been enjoying the services.
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Hope R.
Uppity ---
Absolutely! I'd rather be singing "Green Day" songs than "I Love the Lord"....
PinkLady -
Welcome
Are you in my area (I'm in Tampa)? I know someone who went through something almost identical to your situation with the same exact group. I haven't talked to her in a couple of years. After reading your post, I wonder how she's doing. Please email me at hoperich@verizon.net. Thanks
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Hope R.
Jonny -
The Powell fellowships have been running here in the Tampa Bay area for several years. There used to be 4 or 5 of them, I don't know how many there are now. Yes, they are affiliated with CG.
We know several people who went seamlessly from TWI to their group. When we'd run into them, they were quite aloof. I don't know whether it was because we were still in TWI or because we weren't with them. Some of these people had been in our Twig in the 80's. I was so surprised at how cold and unfriendly they were.
When Waydale was up and running - I ran into a man who I knew from those days. I asked him if he ever went on the internet and told him a bit about what was happening. His reply was something like, "We don't talk about that stuff anymore. It's not profitable. The internet is full of garbage and we don't need to fill our minds with that." Sounded like LCM's instructions to the TWI faithful after Trancechat and Waydale appeared on the scene.
After we left TWI, I ran into someone else in a PP fellowship and let them know we'd finally gotten out of TWI and that we were attending a Methodist church. He was indifferent, cold, almost condescending - an attitude like "goody for you...". I then realized that it was because we weren't part of their group, not because of the group we were a part of. It didn't matter whether it was TWI or the Methodists - we weren't in their circle, so we didn't count and they didn't care.
The person I spoke to a couple of years ago attended one of their fellowships as well, along with her whole family. Her story was much like pinklady's. What I noticed the most was that CG's "ministry" almost ran parallel to LCM's. They had the same need for control, the same kind of paranoia and megalomania. I thought they might have done much better had they joined up together instead of going their own way. They were travelling down the same path and didn't manage to connect!
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WordWolf
They could not unite.
Highlander Syndrome- "There Can Be Only One."
Two lions on the same hill. Think about it.
==========
Now,
someone claimed that Christian radio programs are run exclusively by know-nothings who
just push denominational doctrines.
I don't normally listen to them myself, but not for that reason.
One time, I was packing for a ministry event the night before, and had a Christian radio station
on in the background. I was concentrating on my packing, and only vaguely aware of the content
of the show. One Christian was being interviewed, and giving his opinion on a variety of
subjects from Scripture. After a few minutes of me nodding along and agreeing while packing,
I finally stopped and focused on the radio. The guy had NO connections to twi/vpw/ whoever,
but had been outlining one thing after another that I agreed with, all on different subjects.
He also mentioned in passing that he spoke in tongues more than an hour a day.
So, I'd say that guy and whoever put him on the radio, to name two,
were not fitting into the usual straitjacket of
"not twi, therefore garbage!"
======
Reminds me of that Scottish store in that Saturday Night Live skit.
Their motto?
"If it's not Scottish-it's CRAP!!!"
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Twinky
There is hardly room for anyone else in the same room as CG, his ego is so big. CG wanted to run TWI instead of LCM. He was a bit more of a controller - before LCM got quite so bad at controlling.
The end result probably wouldn't be any different. CG ran Gartmore as The Way in GB (or was it The Way in the UK? - which has also collapsed) and then there was POP and the split between them. Some years later CG's outfit collapsed, leaving only unhappy and bewildered people. Just like TWI.
Anyone who goes to a CG fellowship may as well join TWI. No difference, just whose ego and whose belly you prefer to feed.
It's "for our learning," folks. :blink:
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sprawled out
geer's outfit collapsed, but people are still going to geer fellowships? :blink:
please explain, twinky.
(i could never take geer seriously. he always reminded me of chuck mccann (who remembers chuck mccann?), so how could i?)
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twinot
There's no doubt that those (Christians) outside anything that was NEVER connected to TWI or one of it's splinter groups have something to offer. They are born again believers, they have the spirit of God!
God has not limited himself to TWI and it's offshoots for truth and deliverance.
Having said that, the main issue I contend with in going to a Church is having to sit and listen to someone butcher the truth on any given Sunday. Do they get things right, sure they do. I go occassionally when I meet someone that is excited about their church and meet folks and see what I can learn as well as see what I can do for folks.
There is something to be said about doing your best to get to the truth with an aim towards continuing to grow. Religion is religion it tends to stagnate, whether it's got TWI's mark on it or Roman Catholic mark or whatever. The structure that VP put in place through the late 70's and into the 80's made TWI into just another religion because it allowed for the centralization of money and authority and well you know the rest of the story. I don't see this in the 1st century Church as recorded in the book of Acts.
To answer the question "what is wrong with the Church?" most are just religous organizations with "similiar" stagnated and limiting structure that ruined TWI. There's nothing new under the sun... the adversary has been squashing real movements of God for centuries. Sure there are good hearted folks in those churches, the same is true of TWI, ( I was one of them until I got out) we here just have a unique perspective on TWI that leads some to think that somehow those good hearted folks in Churches are somehow different from the ones still with TWI.
I want to be where I am challenged in my understanding of God's Word and where I can be reproved and corrected when needed. For me that is with the offshoot of my choice and it's not Geer. Dont' misunderstand I don't hold to the offshoot like I did with TWI. I get the Word I need and then I go forth and treat all of the body of Christ the same no matter what group they hang with.
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Watered Garden
Please define "butchering the truth." Do you mean by that phrase that they are teaching material contrary to the teachings of VPW or LCM? If so, I would suggest you seriously listen, given the possibility that it was VPW or LCM who was "butchering the truth." I have found that not every golden word uttered by these two socalled "apostles" was truth at all.
Example: In PFAL, expounding on the situation with David, Bathsheba, and Uriah, VPW proclaims "All the women in the kingdom belonged to the king!" Gee, I thought all the women in the kingdom belonged to God. I thought God said "Thou shalt not commit adultery." I thought David was under the same Law as everyone else. Of course, he did get his general killed so he could have Bathsheba, who was pregnant. If there were no problem with him getting her in the family way, why do that? After all, she already belonged to David the king, not Uriah, who was merely her husband?
Set me free when I heard a minister in a church say that it was sin for David to have sexual relations with Bathsheba, who was another man's wife. It was adultery, against God's law. But as I recall, VPW says the only thing David did wrong was arrange for Uriah's demise.
Just a suggestion.
WG
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WordWolf
Or, to put it differently....
There's no doubt that Christians inside twi have something to offer. They are born again believers,
they have the spirit of God!
God is not restricted entirely from twi, for truth and deliverance.
Having said that, one main issue I contend with in going to a twi meeting-or that of an offshoot- is having to
sit and listen to someone butcher the truth twice a week. Do they get things right, sure they do. Can some people be excited about their fellowship? Sure they can, some do.
There is something to be said about doing your best to get to the truth with an aim towards continuing to grow. Religion is religion it tends to stagnate, whether it's got TWI's mark on it or Roman Catholic mark or whatever. The structure that VP put in place through the late 70's and into the 80's made TWI into just another religion because it allowed for the centralization of money and authority and well you know the rest of the story. I don't see this in the 1st century Church as recorded in the book of Acts.
To answer the question "what is wrong with twi?", it's just a religous organization with a stagnated and limiting structure. There's nothing new under the sun. The adversary has been squashing real movements of God for centuries. Sure there are good hearted folks in twi, the same is true of its offshoots. We here just have a unique perspective on TWI that leads some to think that somehow those good hearted folks in Churches are somehow different from the ones still with TWI.
I want to be where I am challenged in my understanding of God's Word and where I can be reproved and corrected when needed. For me that is NOT with any offshoot. Dont' misunderstand I don't hold to the offshoot like I did with TWI. I get the Word I need-and that's from OTHER Christians.
It's all in your perspective, sometimes.
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twinot
Watered and Wolf:
For me "butchering the truth" is teaching anything that I've worked in my mind and heart and decided I believe to be the truth.
Can I be wrong? Yes, but is it okay for a guy to believe that he can acutally get to and be sure about what he believes is the truth? I absolutely can't believe that it's any other way. Or is that egotistical in anyone's opinion? Isn't that the way it's suppossed to work?
Whether VP or LCM taught it the same as I now believe makes no difference to me but it sure seems to here at GS. I am not of VP or of Geer or of LCM. I am a believer with the spirit of God and a mind of my own. I get to use my brain and think and decide after study and contemplation what I believe the truth is. People here seem to be hyperventilating to jump on anyone who says something that happens to be the same as what TWI taught. Let me tell you it's a real turn-off.
I don't believe that TWI got everything right. I have had to discard many things that were off both doctrinally and practically. Since I enjoy CFF does that mean I'm somehow not able to enjoy other Christians? Does that mean that I can not be impartial? Does it mean that I look down on other Christians?
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WhiteDove
You might want to recheck your facts there twinky I don't think their fellowships collapsed. Gartmore house and The Way in Great Britain may have, at least it is not functioning, but Chris was an employee, It was run by a board of directors of which he was not one. Word Promotions is quite active in Scotland with an office there and just recently one here in the states. They have affiliated fellowships in most of the states I believe. And there are many differences in their teachings and the Way Int.
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WordWolf
I don't know, does it? I think that was OUR question FIRST.
Does one set of beliefs-to YOU-mean that all Christians with DIFFERENT beliefs are
INFERIOR, WRONG and REPUGNANT?
Some people would say yes, some people would say no, and some would mean yes
but would obscure it in a cloud of oratory.
I mean, we all think we're right, but what one says about those that are "wrong" tends to be more telling,
to me, than just about anything.
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twinot
Wolf:
Your making my head heart (not literally). I feel like I'm chasing my tail trying to discuss this with you.
I know that I've been delivered from the bad attitude about church and other Christians that was impressed on me while with TWI. I know that I am doing my best to do what I believe is right in the sight of God. If you think that you see something in my posts that says otherwise your certainly entitled to your opinion.
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WordWolf
If I thought that, I wouldn't be ASKING what you think about other Christians,
I'd figure you'd spelled out how you felt about them.
It's healthier to ask rather than jump to conclusions, anyway.
One thing I AM aware of is that it can sometimes take DECADES to get clear of the
twi "we are supreme!" attitude, and some never escape it. So, I prefer to get specific about it
from time to time.
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