There is a lot of information about the Wierwille's on this forum, and other forums similar to it, where you will find disturbing, shocking posts. Some of the posters here at the Cafe have first-hand experiences to share about the leadership or former leadership of TWI that is very graphic - and I certainly believe them, as I personally know several of them - they would have no reason to lie about such things - they are baring their soul. In short, it can be painful to read some of the posts. Period.
Nonetheless, there are several posters here, myself included, who are glad they took PFAL. It helped me be more comfortable in my relationship with God, cleared up some misconceptions about Christianity, and taught me how to read and understand the Bible better. Even if you end up not liking the class or liking Wierwille, you will learn something about the Bible and God that you didn't know prior to taking the class.
Something else - you will learn, if Sir Medic, your knight in shining armor, hasn't told you, is that Wierwille didn't exactly credit some of his sources in his research. The other word for that practice is plaigerism. There's many threads on this forum about what was borrowed and the sources. Wierwille was human. He had his follies and faults like the rest of us, only he managed to live larger than most or any of us ever thought of living. You can't place him on some unrealistic plateau - I see him as someone who just introduced me to some interesting theological ideas, and theologians. If you take what is taught and study it - even if it's to try to disprove his teachings - then you've learned something.
In a way, I think it's good that you know the 'dirt' up front. Many of us took the class thinking Wierwille was a saint or savior or something because we'd been told so much about him - things that made him seem like a legend. Finding out that he was a bad skirt chaser, drinker, and other horrible things, was like learning that Rock Hudson was gay - it just couldn't be so! But it was...
I certainly wish you the best in your taking the class. I know your Hubby and he's a good man, with a great mind. You've married a keeper. I think you'll be glad you took the class after you've had it, because you've at least experienced what he's into and what turns him on, and that can bring a couple closer together.
Krista...thank you for such an awesome explanation! I am learning a great deal in PFAL. I was raised in a very legalistic Baptist environment where unfortunately I am still a part of that. Not bashing Baptists...but it can be daunting for a sinner as myself.
I just know that my dear hubby has something inside him I don't....peace, and a true understanding of ALL God's word. So, I asked him how he got it and he provided me with VPW's Cd's (the ENTIRE collection...what a gift!)
Look at me as a little kid trying to learn LOL. But....having been a 'victim' of abuse in my young years...naturally I am appaled and shocked always when I read what I did here. One day I am going to learn to just "rightly divide" God's Word and be "OK" with it all.
John (my hubby) is truly a knight in shining armour for me. I do not know if I would have ever gotten to the point I am today of wanting and yearning for knowledge had he not challenged my legalistic thinking.
PFAL is excellent so far as I can see....I am still in the Foundational studies. My main deal is learning fact from all the fiction I have been taught growing up in church like I did. And the churches are worried about 'cult damage'?? Many of them are guilty of doing worse to young kids that attend IMHO
I guess I wanted to hold VPW up on a pedastal....I'm so sorry...it is my nature.
If you look into BG Leonard’s book and web site you will read things from his classes, which Weirwille took, used by VP almost verbatim as his own. Some argue the Bible and theology is NOT owned by anyone. However, even personal experiences were stolen.
So, a preacher like BG could find the truths that were godly and able to set us free, a loser like VP could steal them and present them as his own, and the amazing words of God could survive all the human banter and manipulation to still reach you and still set you free, the insidious part is once set free, you/I have a total dedication to help others by serving them the bread of Life I found in the PFAL class. Unbeknownst to us the premise, the experience and the research we were reading were taking from another man.
So, no wonder the words of the class were in conflict with the man who brought us the words of PFAL. The lines between being dedicate to God and the presenter of a class were blurred. A devilish successful plan. If you cannot stop the words of life from reaching people make sure it does not get past the boundaries of the man packaging it.
Anyone have all the thread about BG Leonard? I know I typed some of his books’ stuff and it was a twin to VP’s. And others found even more and more similarities. That whole discussion is what shocked the crap out of me and ended the circular thinking…
WordWolf – do you have it? I cannot find my Leonard books
Maybe helpful, but I am looking for the prophesy Leonard got and the one VP claimed to get....
i know this won't be well-received, but i'm going to say it [again] anyway.
bg leonard could easily be as full of sh!t as vpw. why would God speak to a 20th century man in 17th century english?? "if thou wilt..." COME ON! wake up! i'm sorry; it's asinine.
it also says on his website that the KJV is the only authoritative version of the bible--are you telling me that's the best God can do? the best man God can find is dense enough to make a statement like that? puh-lease!
you want to know what i think? i think they're ALL full of sh!t. it's just a matter of degree.
I guess the way God spoke to him was God's business.
I checked Leonard out and met some Wafers that went over there, I learned things I found to be good stuff. I am not here to convince you that God can speak in Old English or Ebonics to get someone's attention.
You can think it is all crap, many here do. After all once bitten twice shy. It is understandable.
I still believe in God and he still works in my life, I do not give any glory to MAN but recognize how some of the words of God got to me. I thank God for things that have happened to me. Miracles if you will.
A 10th corps guy Tim Sullivan has a book out with a very comprehensive look at the Bible. It is not a veiled excuse for PFAL but it seemed to burn the chaff off for me so I could more clearly see the God I heard loved me. I still want that God in my life, despite the rancid people I have met along the way.
But I understand how one would feel the way you do, completely understandable.
I am not here to SELL these people, just a thought on how a class run by VPW could mean so much to us and VP was the antithesis of his public words.
He was like a President reading a speech written by someone else. He told the WOW's to keep it in their pants but was flapping HIS at corps women.
Heck, lets leave Bibleland and enter the realm of music, someone can sing a song and really deliver it and it maybe a stolen song.
So, maybe the singer claiming it to be their own is a crap head, and maybe the writer is as well. Or maybe not, maybe the reason the song works so well is it came from the heart of the original writer. And just the song theft sucks.
you want to know what i think? i think they're ALL full of sh!t. it's just a matter of degree.
Verily verily I agree with that sentiment. Wheresoever people act like they they knoweth it all, I say unto you this day, they of a truth are full of sheet. Especially when they wanteth money for their enlightened knowledge. (Although my research shows Jesus required a minimum donation to attend the sermon on the mount.)
... and btw, in my church, Pluto is still a planet ...they killed Pluto ... those bastids!
OK, Pluto doesn't matter ... it just seemed like dot and all covered it all ... I say any Mickey Mouse effort to explain away or soften VP's actions just because he used Bible verses as his cover is just Fluckin Goofy!
ha i love to know what people think especially regarding pluto !!!!!!!!!
IF i think of the "first lady" as my mom, then i can relate
but she's not my mom. and my mom NEVER EVER EVER EVER had the "good life" - just sheet piled on sheet - she is my hero - because through nothing but heartache (and i mean heartache) she gave us kids nothing but love and hope
i don't think my mom would ever order people around and tell them what pictures need to be hung etc. etc. but then my mom was never a culthead
well you know she's a devoted catholic well somewhat devoted well actually i don't know if she's devoted
The High Way man: wow that makes so much sense. we have had this thread before and nobody has ever explained it more clearly.........kinda puts my heart to peace on the subject, because I also was one who thought Mrs.W should have stood up and spoke out........combined with the culture at her time, I can understand her decisions better...........my mother married a divorced man with 5 children during that time period and her parents (from the old country - Austria) disowned her. I know this bothered her tremendously over her lifetime, but she had 7 of us children with him and did not work and did not drive.........you get the picture.........not like it is for me today...our grandfather wouldn't have anything to do with us because his daughter married a divorced man..........
Today as a woman I wouldn't think twice about starting out on my own at anytime (and have) because I have a profession and a way to support my children and take care of myself. I don't have to put up with a husband that would cheat on me, or treat me badly verbally or physically........I have the choice today..............
I have wanted to mention to you about how much I enjoy your posts. When I read them I see a point by point examination of the thread. Step by step you logically proceed with your point of view. I like that because it is without all the emotional drama - instead it is logical, which at some point everyone has to look at in their life, and set the emotions aside for a minute in order to be able to grow past the hurt - that doesn't mean we ever forget..............
Great posts Dot Matrix. Thanks much. I never knew Victor Wierwille was such a pi$$y little tyrant. It sounds like you did a great job in confronting him and others about their psychotic behavior. Sorry I was not there to back you up, but California is sort of a long way from Ohio and like many people I did not know about his true lifestyle until after his death. I did get to talk to the tyrant once though. I ran into him at the Grand Ole Opry House hotel in 1984 at Sound Out 84 when he was hanging out with his buddy Howard Allen. I was a WOW that year and while hiding my name tag from his view told him that he looked familiar, but I could not remember his name. I assured him that it was on the tip of my tongue, but it sounded something like weir (also pronounced wear) something or rather. After reading your previous posts here it sounds like I may have been unwittingly offering him advise to be fulled dressed at his next session of depravity. But at least he had a sense of humor. He told me his name was Wherewolf and I wondered to myself what did you do to deserve that name? Little did I know, but I sure wish I would have. It would have been quite theraputic to give him a piece of my mind, if I would have known some of the evil which he committed. And by that time I was thoroughly disgusted with the Way Tree power structure and how they did not esteem all believers the same and esteemed a few at the expense of others. It would have been fun to break that up.
Nevertheless, great posts Dot. Great heart, bold as brass, and well stated. You rock girl. I like people that speak their mind and that have a sense of honor and justice to back this up. Carry on. But the next time you chastise an evil doer who is also a religious hypocritical tyrant please let me know because I want to get in on the fun also. Thanks much.
And one more thing. This is for Medic's wife. As long as you are in the process of studying biblical teachings. Read the linked study below. I may be bias, but I think it is better than anything Wierwille ever wrote because this study glorifies the Lord Jesus and when everything was all said and done in the final analysis Wierwille mostly wanted to glorify himself.
i get it, dot (and you KNOW i appreciate the things you say).
it's not that i don't believe in God. i just don't believe in anything or anyone that wants to tell me they've got a special connection, the inside dope--AND that what God has "told" them applies to me. i'm done done done with that. my whole thing (what there is of it) is that it's completely personal, and the minute any individual's point of view becomes dogma, we're barking up the wrong tree. and the LAST thing i'm gonna do is ignore or suppress my instincts, <_< and/or what my common sense tells me. that's how i got in trouble the last time.
but that's just MY point of view, innit?? so i'd appreciate it if you'd disagree!
Anyone remember "A man can find God anywhere, and miss Him everywhere."?? How about "The Word from the lips of a jackass worked in the Bible.", referring to Balaam's donkey in the OT.
HOW we receive God's word is not as important as THAT we receive it. VP has blended back into dirt. Today is WHEN God's word lives and works in our lives. Today is WHEN God can restore 100 fold anything taken from us. Today is WHEN He wants us to house His words in our minds, as He lives (or doesn't) IN US. We are His habitation. He's not freaked by fuel prices. And we ARE, TODAY, His heirs, and joint heirs with Christ.
Those hurt by VP and others can expect God to pay them back for their heartbreaks.
Okay, twig's over. Take your songbooks and turn to number ...
There are some people who have gotten off the hook. Sentimental reasons I guess. I remember getting reamed here on GSC for asking the same question about Donny Fugit. He was close to doctor, why didn't he stand up?
My thoughts as to why Mrs. W didn't leave after VP passed. Wasn't she in her '70s when he died? I think she was, although I am not sure. She was elderly. At that point, I would think, hey, he's gone. I have the house I've lived in all my life (have any of you had to try and get your parents to leave a place they've lived in for years? They don't want to). I have the farmland and countryside I love and have spent my life in. My children can come visit, but they're adult with their own children and lives.
I think she was just too old and tired, and bound by roots, to even want to consider going anywhere else. She had friends there, her sister was there and her family, she knew people in the community outside of TWI. Was TWI going to buy her a house somewhere else? Doubtful, her kids were gone. I think she decided to enjoy some much earned peace and quiet in her later years. Sure, she was trotted out occassionally for meetings and public display, but she'd done that all her life, no biggie for her. If that's the price to pay, so be it.
I probably would have made the same decision if I had been in her shoes.
She had a tremendous sence of duty, and I think that's why she kept quiet and in her 'place'. I've seen that sort of profile with many women of her generation - they fill a roll in life - devoted wife, loving mother, sweet grandmother, caretaker of all, whatever - because that's what they've been raised to do. That's their job. Period.
I often wondered if she was into the money that was available during the fat years of TWI - no one has ever posted about if she had extreme tastes in clothing or jewelry. She seemed to like to keep her life simple, so I assume none of that turned her head - but I've wondered about that...
No, I never noticed Mrs. W to have any extreme tastes in clothes or possessions. The house looked like any other house. Looked like what your house probably looks like.
Dr. was into conspicuous consumption: the airplane, all the root locales, the tour bus, etc. She didn't even stay on the bus when they travelled. She was a sweet girl from a little farm town. I always had the impression that they weren't that close as a married couple; he was the showman and the adulterer. She was a nurse and a lady, and a nice person. I like to think that if they'd lived fifty years later, she'd have divorced him. She was just not of a generation that did that.
By the way, Tom: thanks for saying what you did. I'm going to live by those words today, bro.
... and btw, in my church, Pluto is still a planet ...they killed Pluto ... those bastids!
Just as long as they don't touch Ura....
I can't do it, I just can't. That's too awful a joke, even for me.
--------------------------------------------
Just a thought about Mrs. Wierwille's status:
The Way International was never her ministry. It was never her organization. She was never the head of it, she didn't call the shots, she didn't have control of the way things were done. She didn't even "marry into" the ministry. She was dragged along for the ride, whether or not she wanted to go. Any perquisites or responsibilities she had were at the whim of Dr. ControlFreakmaster.
Yeah she could have tried to break up his party, but then she would have been out on her @ $ $ with 3-5 kids in tow. Where would she have gone? To a local Way Home, which would have been told she was "tripped out", "not in fellowship" and even possibly "possessed with 5-star diamon" by the major leadership trying to cover Victor's (and possibly their) butt? I'm sure she knew all about living dirt poor from being hooked up with "the Doctor" in his early parsonage years.
I think she looked at her options, and chose the lesser of many (wierw)evils.
Spawled out - I understand, perhaps BG was a kook. But Looser VP stole that guy's class which was my point, I do understand your point as well. You know I love you.
Re Abused women:
There is all types of abuse and men can also be abused. You see Ex’s Mom was/is one of the classiest women I have ever met. She went through a hell I would not have survived and she did it as a Mom and remained an example of excellence. No, she did not travel with an entourage, her she had to fold her own sheets and come up with meals on a budget yet, there TRULY is not a finer woman alive than Mom Ex. I wish you could all know her.
There is princess Diana afforded everything but it appears all she wanted was to be first in the heart of her husband and wanted to break from all the rules and regulations of her factious life. From what I saw of her I liked her. She was fighting the fact that there were live mines planted all over the world that remained from previous wars and she took up for the kids who had lost limb by walking on them. She walked the land herself in fighting this. She had all life had to offer and all she really wanted was sincere love. To her the palace was a prison.
Mrs. W she may have been able to have someone else clean her home, she may have waved at the corps from the caddy and could afford to have her hair done, but her life was with a narcissistic sexual pervert, who had a temper, controlled the money, and did not seem to hold her in his heart. Living a lie is a hard way to go through a marriage.
The roads to unhappiness are many.
One thing Ex’s mother told me was that their generation did not “go home” if the marriage didn’t work.. My mother told me the same thing. The big saying was, “You made your bed now you can lie in it.”
I think Mrs W. Was in a bad situation, her battle was overwhelming. Anyone out there ever been cheated on? How brave and powerful did you feel? If it happened 300 times? Where would she go in Ohio? Her whole world was all woven in with the Weirwille’s. Where could she hide? There were no programs then. When I left my violent first husband, frightening threatening man, there were no programs. Ex helped me to get out, when my EX called to lure me home she listened on the other end of the phone and would help me get off rather than listen to the lies, and her Mom took me in for the holidays and made me a Christmas.
Plus Mrs. W probably thought God might hate her if she left, how many of you stayed in TWI because you thought God would no longer bless you if you left? I wish I could have been her hero and gotten her out of THAT marriage rather than wonder why she never rose up to become mine.
Kelvar
"I think she looked at her options, and chose the lesser of many (wierw)evils."
Well, said
Sun-
"I probably would have made the same decision if I had been in her shoes."
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rascal
Gonna weigh in here... Great points word wolf, I hope that you never stop keeping the record straight and people honest here. twinot, i have to say that you are sounding pretty darned judgemental and
rascal
Guess that maybe one would have to experience being abused, not just physically but mentally as well, in order to understand the utter hopelessness of the situation. You have been taught all of your
doojable
Twinot - carefully consider and ask yourself why you are not willing to call vpw a false prophet- but you are willing to ask about Mrs. W.
Not a tongue lashing and no lecture follows. Just what I believe is a good question to help sort through the rubble.
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ChasUFarley
Mrs. Medic --
Be prepared.
There is a lot of information about the Wierwille's on this forum, and other forums similar to it, where you will find disturbing, shocking posts. Some of the posters here at the Cafe have first-hand experiences to share about the leadership or former leadership of TWI that is very graphic - and I certainly believe them, as I personally know several of them - they would have no reason to lie about such things - they are baring their soul. In short, it can be painful to read some of the posts. Period.
Nonetheless, there are several posters here, myself included, who are glad they took PFAL. It helped me be more comfortable in my relationship with God, cleared up some misconceptions about Christianity, and taught me how to read and understand the Bible better. Even if you end up not liking the class or liking Wierwille, you will learn something about the Bible and God that you didn't know prior to taking the class.
Something else - you will learn, if Sir Medic, your knight in shining armor, hasn't told you, is that Wierwille didn't exactly credit some of his sources in his research. The other word for that practice is plaigerism. There's many threads on this forum about what was borrowed and the sources. Wierwille was human. He had his follies and faults like the rest of us, only he managed to live larger than most or any of us ever thought of living. You can't place him on some unrealistic plateau - I see him as someone who just introduced me to some interesting theological ideas, and theologians. If you take what is taught and study it - even if it's to try to disprove his teachings - then you've learned something.
In a way, I think it's good that you know the 'dirt' up front. Many of us took the class thinking Wierwille was a saint or savior or something because we'd been told so much about him - things that made him seem like a legend. Finding out that he was a bad skirt chaser, drinker, and other horrible things, was like learning that Rock Hudson was gay - it just couldn't be so! But it was...
I certainly wish you the best in your taking the class. I know your Hubby and he's a good man, with a great mind. You've married a keeper. I think you'll be glad you took the class after you've had it, because you've at least experienced what he's into and what turns him on, and that can bring a couple closer together.
Hugs to you.
-Krista
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medic's wife
Krista...thank you for such an awesome explanation! I am learning a great deal in PFAL. I was raised in a very legalistic Baptist environment where unfortunately I am still a part of that. Not bashing Baptists...but it can be daunting for a sinner as myself.
I just know that my dear hubby has something inside him I don't....peace, and a true understanding of ALL God's word. So, I asked him how he got it and he provided me with VPW's Cd's (the ENTIRE collection...what a gift!)
Look at me as a little kid trying to learn LOL. But....having been a 'victim' of abuse in my young years...naturally I am appaled and shocked always when I read what I did here. One day I am going to learn to just "rightly divide" God's Word and be "OK" with it all.
John (my hubby) is truly a knight in shining armour for me. I do not know if I would have ever gotten to the point I am today of wanting and yearning for knowledge had he not challenged my legalistic thinking.
PFAL is excellent so far as I can see....I am still in the Foundational studies. My main deal is learning fact from all the fiction I have been taught growing up in church like I did. And the churches are worried about 'cult damage'?? Many of them are guilty of doing worse to young kids that attend IMHO
I guess I wanted to hold VPW up on a pedastal....I'm so sorry...it is my nature.
Thank you for the helpful insight!
Much Love!
Dana (Medic's wife)
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WordWolf
BG Leonard:
quote:
One day God spoke to me. "If thou wilt wait patiently before me, I will give thee
the revelation concerning that which is written in my Word touching these things; the
revelation my people need to bring them out of their chaos and confusion." I believed
God. For months I waited before His presence in solitude, During those wonderful days,
He revealed the truth to me concerning the gifts of the Spirit. As He did, these things
were proven by acting upon the knowledge thus received, and by examining the results
in light of His Word.
Add "an early October invisible snowstorm", and inflate it to "like it hasn't been
known" and you have the 1942 promise.
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sprawled out
i know this won't be well-received, but i'm going to say it [again] anyway.
bg leonard could easily be as full of sh!t as vpw. why would God speak to a 20th century man in 17th century english?? "if thou wilt..." COME ON! wake up! i'm sorry; it's asinine.
it also says on his website that the KJV is the only authoritative version of the bible--are you telling me that's the best God can do? the best man God can find is dense enough to make a statement like that? puh-lease!
you want to know what i think? i think they're ALL full of sh!t. it's just a matter of degree.
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Dot Matrix
I guess the way God spoke to him was God's business.
I checked Leonard out and met some Wafers that went over there, I learned things I found to be good stuff. I am not here to convince you that God can speak in Old English or Ebonics to get someone's attention.
You can think it is all crap, many here do. After all once bitten twice shy. It is understandable.
I still believe in God and he still works in my life, I do not give any glory to MAN but recognize how some of the words of God got to me. I thank God for things that have happened to me. Miracles if you will.
A 10th corps guy Tim Sullivan has a book out with a very comprehensive look at the Bible. It is not a veiled excuse for PFAL but it seemed to burn the chaff off for me so I could more clearly see the God I heard loved me. I still want that God in my life, despite the rancid people I have met along the way.
But I understand how one would feel the way you do, completely understandable.
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Dot Matrix
I am not here to SELL these people, just a thought on how a class run by VPW could mean so much to us and VP was the antithesis of his public words.
He was like a President reading a speech written by someone else. He told the WOW's to keep it in their pants but was flapping HIS at corps women.
Heck, lets leave Bibleland and enter the realm of music, someone can sing a song and really deliver it and it maybe a stolen song.
So, maybe the singer claiming it to be their own is a crap head, and maybe the writer is as well. Or maybe not, maybe the reason the song works so well is it came from the heart of the original writer. And just the song theft sucks.
See it the way you want, we all do anyway.
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rhino
... and btw, in my church, Pluto is still a planet ...they killed Pluto ... those bastids!
OK, Pluto doesn't matter ... it just seemed like dot and all covered it all ... I say any Mickey Mouse effort to explain away or soften VP's actions just because he used Bible verses as his cover is just Fluckin Goofy!
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excathedra
ha i love to know what people think especially regarding pluto !!!!!!!!!
IF i think of the "first lady" as my mom, then i can relate
but she's not my mom. and my mom NEVER EVER EVER EVER had the "good life" - just sheet piled on sheet - she is my hero - because through nothing but heartache (and i mean heartache) she gave us kids nothing but love and hope
i don't think my mom would ever order people around and tell them what pictures need to be hung etc. etc. but then my mom was never a culthead
well you know she's a devoted catholic well somewhat devoted well actually i don't know if she's devoted
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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ChattyKathy
Your mom is awesome excath, and I bet she knows how you feel about her.
You're funny girl! :)
top of the page really is getting to me lately
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excathedra
well i ain't arguin' (i lived in tennessee for a spell) about her bein' a victim
but she was treated like royalty and had many perks through the years
i would give my soul for my mom to have had a taste of that
that's all i'm sayin'
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ChattyKathy
Neither women had lives of first choice it appears to me.
I understand what you're saying, why wouldn't you want your mother to have some of that rather than what she did.
They are different, but both knew personal h3lls.
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outofdafog
The High Way man: wow that makes so much sense. we have had this thread before and nobody has ever explained it more clearly.........kinda puts my heart to peace on the subject, because I also was one who thought Mrs.W should have stood up and spoke out........combined with the culture at her time, I can understand her decisions better...........my mother married a divorced man with 5 children during that time period and her parents (from the old country - Austria) disowned her. I know this bothered her tremendously over her lifetime, but she had 7 of us children with him and did not work and did not drive.........you get the picture.........not like it is for me today...our grandfather wouldn't have anything to do with us because his daughter married a divorced man..........
Today as a woman I wouldn't think twice about starting out on my own at anytime (and have) because I have a profession and a way to support my children and take care of myself. I don't have to put up with a husband that would cheat on me, or treat me badly verbally or physically........I have the choice today..............
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outofdafog
WordWolf:
I have wanted to mention to you about how much I enjoy your posts. When I read them I see a point by point examination of the thread. Step by step you logically proceed with your point of view. I like that because it is without all the emotional drama - instead it is logical, which at some point everyone has to look at in their life, and set the emotions aside for a minute in order to be able to grow past the hurt - that doesn't mean we ever forget..............
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Mark Sanguinetti
Great posts Dot Matrix.
Thanks much. I never knew Victor Wierwille was such a pi$$y little tyrant. It sounds like you did a great job in confronting him and others about their psychotic behavior. Sorry I was not there to back you up, but California is sort of a long way from Ohio and like many people I did not know about his true lifestyle until after his death. I did get to talk to the tyrant once though. I ran into him at the Grand Ole Opry House hotel in 1984 at Sound Out 84 when he was hanging out with his buddy Howard Allen. I was a WOW that year and while hiding my name tag from his view told him that he looked familiar, but I could not remember his name. I assured him that it was on the tip of my tongue, but it sounded something like weir (also pronounced wear) something or rather. After reading your previous posts here it sounds like I may have been unwittingly offering him advise to be fulled dressed at his next session of depravity. But at least he had a sense of humor. He told me his name was Wherewolf and I wondered to myself what did you do to deserve that name? Little did I know, but I sure wish I would have. It would have been quite theraputic to give him a piece of my mind, if I would have known some of the evil which he committed. And by that time I was thoroughly disgusted with the Way Tree power structure and how they did not esteem all believers the same and esteemed a few at the expense of others. It would have been fun to break that up.
Nevertheless, great posts Dot. Great heart, bold as brass, and well stated. You rock girl. I like people that speak their mind and that have a sense of honor and justice to back this up. Carry on. But the next time you chastise an evil doer who is also a religious hypocritical tyrant please let me know because I want to get in on the fun also.
Thanks much.
And one more thing. This is for Medic's wife. As long as you are in the process of studying biblical teachings. Read the linked study below. I may be bias, but I think it is better than anything Wierwille ever wrote because this study glorifies the Lord Jesus and when everything was all said and done in the final analysis Wierwille mostly wanted to glorify himself.
http://www.waychrist.com/Lordship_JC.htm
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sprawled out
i get it, dot (and you KNOW i appreciate the things you say).
it's not that i don't believe in God. i just don't believe in anything or anyone that wants to tell me they've got a special connection, the inside dope--AND that what God has "told" them applies to me. i'm done done done with that. my whole thing (what there is of it) is that it's completely personal, and the minute any individual's point of view becomes dogma, we're barking up the wrong tree. and the LAST thing i'm gonna do is ignore or suppress my instincts, <_< and/or what my common sense tells me.
that's how i got in trouble the last time.
but that's just MY point of view, innit?? so i'd appreciate it if you'd disagree!
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tomtuttle1
Exie, I perceive thou art a prophetess.
Anyone remember "A man can find God anywhere, and miss Him everywhere."?? How about "The Word from the lips of a jackass worked in the Bible.", referring to Balaam's donkey in the OT.
HOW we receive God's word is not as important as THAT we receive it. VP has blended back into dirt. Today is WHEN God's word lives and works in our lives. Today is WHEN God can restore 100 fold anything taken from us. Today is WHEN He wants us to house His words in our minds, as He lives (or doesn't) IN US. We are His habitation. He's not freaked by fuel prices. And we ARE, TODAY, His heirs, and joint heirs with Christ.
Those hurt by VP and others can expect God to pay them back for their heartbreaks.
Okay, twig's over. Take your songbooks and turn to number ...
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ChattyKathy
I know you are addressing excath but that was tremendous.
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def59
There are some people who have gotten off the hook. Sentimental reasons I guess. I remember getting reamed here on GSC for asking the same question about Donny Fugit. He was close to doctor, why didn't he stand up?
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Sunesis
My thoughts as to why Mrs. W didn't leave after VP passed. Wasn't she in her '70s when he died? I think she was, although I am not sure. She was elderly. At that point, I would think, hey, he's gone. I have the house I've lived in all my life (have any of you had to try and get your parents to leave a place they've lived in for years? They don't want to). I have the farmland and countryside I love and have spent my life in. My children can come visit, but they're adult with their own children and lives.
I think she was just too old and tired, and bound by roots, to even want to consider going anywhere else. She had friends there, her sister was there and her family, she knew people in the community outside of TWI. Was TWI going to buy her a house somewhere else? Doubtful, her kids were gone. I think she decided to enjoy some much earned peace and quiet in her later years. Sure, she was trotted out occassionally for meetings and public display, but she'd done that all her life, no biggie for her. If that's the price to pay, so be it.
I probably would have made the same decision if I had been in her shoes.
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ChasUFarley
She had a tremendous sence of duty, and I think that's why she kept quiet and in her 'place'. I've seen that sort of profile with many women of her generation - they fill a roll in life - devoted wife, loving mother, sweet grandmother, caretaker of all, whatever - because that's what they've been raised to do. That's their job. Period.
I often wondered if she was into the money that was available during the fat years of TWI - no one has ever posted about if she had extreme tastes in clothing or jewelry. She seemed to like to keep her life simple, so I assume none of that turned her head - but I've wondered about that...
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notinKansasanymore
No, I never noticed Mrs. W to have any extreme tastes in clothes or possessions. The house looked like any other house. Looked like what your house probably looks like.
Dr. was into conspicuous consumption: the airplane, all the root locales, the tour bus, etc. She didn't even stay on the bus when they travelled. She was a sweet girl from a little farm town. I always had the impression that they weren't that close as a married couple; he was the showman and the adulterer. She was a nurse and a lady, and a nice person. I like to think that if they'd lived fifty years later, she'd have divorced him. She was just not of a generation that did that.
By the way, Tom: thanks for saying what you did. I'm going to live by those words today, bro.
love, niKa
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Kevlar2000
Just as long as they don't touch Ura....
I can't do it, I just can't. That's too awful a joke, even for me.
--------------------------------------------
Just a thought about Mrs. Wierwille's status:
The Way International was never her ministry. It was never her organization. She was never the head of it, she didn't call the shots, she didn't have control of the way things were done. She didn't even "marry into" the ministry. She was dragged along for the ride, whether or not she wanted to go. Any perquisites or responsibilities she had were at the whim of Dr. ControlFreakmaster.
Yeah she could have tried to break up his party, but then she would have been out on her @ $ $ with 3-5 kids in tow. Where would she have gone? To a local Way Home, which would have been told she was "tripped out", "not in fellowship" and even possibly "possessed with 5-star diamon" by the major leadership trying to cover Victor's (and possibly their) butt? I'm sure she knew all about living dirt poor from being hooked up with "the Doctor" in his early parsonage years.
I think she looked at her options, and chose the lesser of many (wierw)evils.
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Dot Matrix
Mark – WOW thank you! Okay we can kick some
a
s
s
next time!
Spawled out - I understand, perhaps BG was a kook. But Looser VP stole that guy's class which was my point, I do understand your point as well. You know I love you.
Re Abused women:
There is all types of abuse and men can also be abused. You see Ex’s Mom was/is one of the classiest women I have ever met. She went through a hell I would not have survived and she did it as a Mom and remained an example of excellence. No, she did not travel with an entourage, her she had to fold her own sheets and come up with meals on a budget yet, there TRULY is not a finer woman alive than Mom Ex. I wish you could all know her.
There is princess Diana afforded everything but it appears all she wanted was to be first in the heart of her husband and wanted to break from all the rules and regulations of her factious life. From what I saw of her I liked her. She was fighting the fact that there were live mines planted all over the world that remained from previous wars and she took up for the kids who had lost limb by walking on them. She walked the land herself in fighting this. She had all life had to offer and all she really wanted was sincere love. To her the palace was a prison.
Mrs. W she may have been able to have someone else clean her home, she may have waved at the corps from the caddy and could afford to have her hair done, but her life was with a narcissistic sexual pervert, who had a temper, controlled the money, and did not seem to hold her in his heart. Living a lie is a hard way to go through a marriage.
The roads to unhappiness are many.
One thing Ex’s mother told me was that their generation did not “go home” if the marriage didn’t work.. My mother told me the same thing. The big saying was, “You made your bed now you can lie in it.”
I think Mrs W. Was in a bad situation, her battle was overwhelming. Anyone out there ever been cheated on? How brave and powerful did you feel? If it happened 300 times? Where would she go in Ohio? Her whole world was all woven in with the Weirwille’s. Where could she hide? There were no programs then. When I left my violent first husband, frightening threatening man, there were no programs. Ex helped me to get out, when my EX called to lure me home she listened on the other end of the phone and would help me get off rather than listen to the lies, and her Mom took me in for the holidays and made me a Christmas.
Plus Mrs. W probably thought God might hate her if she left, how many of you stayed in TWI because you thought God would no longer bless you if you left? I wish I could have been her hero and gotten her out of THAT marriage rather than wonder why she never rose up to become mine.
Kelvar
"I think she looked at her options, and chose the lesser of many (wierw)evils."
Well, said
Sun-
"I probably would have made the same decision if I had been in her shoes."
Me too!
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