I guess from my perspective, Christianity and Judaism are so much alike, that one can take the "laws of Judaism" and see them as guidelines, a framework, whatever, without being legalistic about it.
Yup - I know what you mean! From my perspective Jesus summed up the Old Testament law by saying it revolved around two key elements: Love for God and your neighbor...And love - a wonderful emotion - and that brings us back to our topic!!!!! Whew - I was sweating that one for a little bit. :)
T-bone... I so look forward to meeting you and Tonto in Texas!
Gosh we could just sit around and peruse/exchange all these books we post/converse about. (Just kidding..:) )
Kit Sober stated: "'Figure of speech' is not a throwaway word, but an emphasis. Duh!"
Big DUH on me!! Thanks for the reminder Kit. (A few other posts on this thread helped remind me of that too...FOS is truer than true.)
As all this is being discussed, my initial question seems idiotic. I know it's not, because it was/is a genuine question that I was/still am some grappling with. It was just so far outside my concept of thinking. (Boy I really sound stupid now. :blink: ) The Way brain alarms sounded loudly as I dealved into that book. But I just keep reading...over and over....to see different angles. Read and ponder...and then decided to post.
VP defined emotions as "the whole person liking and disliking" in his booklet on ethics the Lifestyle of the Believer. God certainly likes and dislikes doesn't He?
God gave us emotions and uses that fact when communicating to us. Example: "I am a jealous God!"
Whether or not God has emotions is not necessarily the issue. I think the issue is that God is not one of our peers. He's not subject to us, we're subject to Him. Our bosses have emotions. Do we constantly judge and criticize them for this or do we try to end up on the good side of them?
Also, I disagree with Tina Turner. Love is not just a second hand emotion. God may dislike stuff about me, but he always loves me.
Gosh, I'm a latecomer to this thread. But, I have to claim guilt as the one who suggested to pipes that our emotional make-up is the part of us that is created after the image and likeness of God.
I think our emotional make-up is intricately tied to our free-will decisions to follow God, or not. We either choose to pursue the character, and unending generosity of our God and Saviour, or we don't. We have emotions, so that we can choose, good over evil, love over hate, selfless giving over, lust.
We have emotions, so that we can cope with life in a fallen world, one where paradise does not yet exist, one where the consequences of our choices result in light or darkness. We have emotions so that, by the grace and mercy of our God, even when darkness prevails over light, we have hope, and we can choose, to an extent, what will happen.
God desires right choices, which are defined by the knowledge of Him. Of this I am convinced. And I gotta understand what He is saying by His expression of Himself in His Word, which is pretty much drawn out for us, by words, that represent His heart, His emotions about us. And what's happening in this free will universe that He created.
...God gave us emotions and uses that fact when communicating to us. Example: "I am a jealous God!"...
Great point, Johniam !!! That makes me think about how rich and informative a face-to-face conversation is - pretty much goes along with what Ex10 was saying about understanding God when He expresses Himself. Whenever someone is talking to me in person - I get a message loaded with additional info - picking up on their body language, inflections, passion, etc.....
I remember in some circa 1963 psychology class (when I was just-out-of-high-school and in college), the professor professed that when someone puts another [or some thing] in a box, it has the emotional effect of giving the person a feeling of power over the other.
Rather than soaking in the depth of the figure of speech (or a type of incense of the Lord) if you spend too much time defining the thing maybe by "the Ford explaining Henry" logic we are trying to have defining power over the Lord.
And although the Ford could not try to define Henry, people spend (I would say squander) a lot of time trying to define God.
I just received a Timothy Botts illustrated Bible. Tim Bott's work is an example to me of work to deliver the depth of a figure / putting a face to the figures of speech -- instead of trying to understand it by defining it, but to stand under the banner of Him unfurled.
Timothy Botts is one of my all-time favorites. If you look at his stuff, maybe you can see what I'm trying to say. Not only the verbage of the text, but also the media he uses, the background, the shapes of his letters, and the way each letter sets on the page form his illustrations. His stuff gives new meaning to the word "awesome" for me. Tim Botts Gallery
I'm sure glad God is God and has all this figured out. :) I'm enjoying reading folks insights/thoughts/examples/etc.
T-bone, if it crosses your mind, I'd be interested to know your thoughts on Cry of the Soul. Ex10 suggested that book to me. I guess eventually I'll get my fill of it, but I'm not satiated yet.
I found the quote about photographic negatives I mentioned in an earlier post. Tom brought the quote to my mind when he stated, "Perhaps our emotions are mere shadows of God's realities."
The following excerpt is written in the context of "The Surprising Glory of Anger" from
Cry of the Soul.
Excerpt: "Our dark emotions are stained emblems of the sure, solid image of God. Our ugliest, most destructive emotions reflect something of the glory of God; consequently, they reflect, however poorly and darkly, the glory and honor of our humanity. They're like a photographic negative. A negative is an inversion of what really exists. Everything that is black is a reflection of what will be light."
Hmmm....IF this is a true, then the same would hold for our most beautiful and creative emotions...an inversion of what really exisits. We only have a glimpse...and a fallen glimpse at that. Yet that glimpse at times is rich and deep and powerful. This depth and dimension of God's ways (including emotions) higher than mine...so much that I cannot attain to it... reminds me of a song by Todd Agnew about eternity. In the song Todd states God will show us colors that we never knew existed. Maybe, maybe not....but He could. In a poetic sense, emotions give color to life.
Since God is all light and in Him is no darkness at all...what we term God's dark emotions (God's jealousy and God's anger) are all light. Light crystallizes and makes images clear, defined, and distinct. God's anger and jealously help define and distinguish right from wrong, idolatry from true worship....yes??
Ramble, ramble, ramble......Why is it hard for me to grasp that God's nature includes jealousy and vengence and judgement? Is this concept foggy to me due to TWI's murky definition of sin, and (for that matter) culture's definition? Or is it foggy simply because of my finite human capacity and the way my own intellect gets in the way of simplicity? Is it foggy because of my experience with human jealously and anger and my experiential defintion of these terms? I'm sure my fogginess is a combination effect. Is this concept (God's "darker" side, which is really all light) more clear to other people outside TWI indoctrination?
Pipes sits with that pondering look on her face...and then thinks....
"Oh, what the hell!! Don't make it so damn complicated!!!"
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T-Bone
Yup - I know what you mean! From my perspective Jesus summed up the Old Testament law by saying it revolved around two key elements: Love for God and your neighbor...And love - a wonderful emotion - and that brings us back to our topic!!!!! Whew - I was sweating that one for a little bit. :)
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I Love Bagpipes
T-bone... I so look forward to meeting you and Tonto in Texas!
Gosh we could just sit around and peruse/exchange all these books we post/converse about. (Just kidding..:) )
Kit Sober stated: "'Figure of speech' is not a throwaway word, but an emphasis. Duh!"
Big DUH on me!! Thanks for the reminder Kit. (A few other posts on this thread helped remind me of that too...FOS is truer than true.)
As all this is being discussed, my initial question seems idiotic. I know it's not, because it was/is a genuine question that I was/still am some grappling with. It was just so far outside my concept of thinking. (Boy I really sound stupid now. :blink: ) The Way brain alarms sounded loudly as I dealved into that book. But I just keep reading...over and over....to see different angles. Read and ponder...and then decided to post.
This fresh air sure feels nice.
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johniam
VP defined emotions as "the whole person liking and disliking" in his booklet on ethics the Lifestyle of the Believer. God certainly likes and dislikes doesn't He?
God gave us emotions and uses that fact when communicating to us. Example: "I am a jealous God!"
Whether or not God has emotions is not necessarily the issue. I think the issue is that God is not one of our peers. He's not subject to us, we're subject to Him. Our bosses have emotions. Do we constantly judge and criticize them for this or do we try to end up on the good side of them?
Also, I disagree with Tina Turner. Love is not just a second hand emotion. God may dislike stuff about me, but he always loves me.
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ex10
Gosh, I'm a latecomer to this thread. But, I have to claim guilt as the one who suggested to pipes that our emotional make-up is the part of us that is created after the image and likeness of God.
I think our emotional make-up is intricately tied to our free-will decisions to follow God, or not. We either choose to pursue the character, and unending generosity of our God and Saviour, or we don't. We have emotions, so that we can choose, good over evil, love over hate, selfless giving over, lust.
We have emotions, so that we can cope with life in a fallen world, one where paradise does not yet exist, one where the consequences of our choices result in light or darkness. We have emotions so that, by the grace and mercy of our God, even when darkness prevails over light, we have hope, and we can choose, to an extent, what will happen.
God desires right choices, which are defined by the knowledge of Him. Of this I am convinced. And I gotta understand what He is saying by His expression of Himself in His Word, which is pretty much drawn out for us, by words, that represent His heart, His emotions about us. And what's happening in this free will universe that He created.
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T-Bone
Great point, Johniam !!! That makes me think about how rich and informative a face-to-face conversation is - pretty much goes along with what Ex10 was saying about understanding God when He expresses Himself. Whenever someone is talking to me in person - I get a message loaded with additional info - picking up on their body language, inflections, passion, etc.....
After hearing enough snippets of Cry of the Soul from Bagpipes I had to buy the darn book! I've just started reading it - I've gotten so intrigued about this God/emotions stuff. Just thinking out loud here: emotions being a part of the language [or message] when God communicates with us...getting excited about exploring my emotions as one would study word-origins and clichés of their native tongue.
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Kit Sober
I remember in some circa 1963 psychology class (when I was just-out-of-high-school and in college), the professor professed that when someone puts another [or some thing] in a box, it has the emotional effect of giving the person a feeling of power over the other.
Rather than soaking in the depth of the figure of speech (or a type of incense of the Lord) if you spend too much time defining the thing maybe by "the Ford explaining Henry" logic we are trying to have defining power over the Lord.
And although the Ford could not try to define Henry, people spend (I would say squander) a lot of time trying to define God.
I just received a Timothy Botts illustrated Bible. Tim Bott's work is an example to me of work to deliver the depth of a figure / putting a face to the figures of speech -- instead of trying to understand it by defining it, but to stand under the banner of Him unfurled.
Timothy Botts is one of my all-time favorites. If you look at his stuff, maybe you can see what I'm trying to say. Not only the verbage of the text, but also the media he uses, the background, the shapes of his letters, and the way each letter sets on the page form his illustrations. His stuff gives new meaning to the word "awesome" for me. Tim Botts Gallery
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I Love Bagpipes
I'm sure glad God is God and has all this figured out. :) I'm enjoying reading folks insights/thoughts/examples/etc.
T-bone, if it crosses your mind, I'd be interested to know your thoughts on Cry of the Soul. Ex10 suggested that book to me. I guess eventually I'll get my fill of it, but I'm not satiated yet.
I found the quote about photographic negatives I mentioned in an earlier post. Tom brought the quote to my mind when he stated, "Perhaps our emotions are mere shadows of God's realities."
The following excerpt is written in the context of "The Surprising Glory of Anger" from
Cry of the Soul.
Excerpt: "Our dark emotions are stained emblems of the sure, solid image of God. Our ugliest, most destructive emotions reflect something of the glory of God; consequently, they reflect, however poorly and darkly, the glory and honor of our humanity. They're like a photographic negative. A negative is an inversion of what really exists. Everything that is black is a reflection of what will be light."
Hmmm....IF this is a true, then the same would hold for our most beautiful and creative emotions...an inversion of what really exisits. We only have a glimpse...and a fallen glimpse at that. Yet that glimpse at times is rich and deep and powerful. This depth and dimension of God's ways (including emotions) higher than mine...so much that I cannot attain to it... reminds me of a song by Todd Agnew about eternity. In the song Todd states God will show us colors that we never knew existed. Maybe, maybe not....but He could. In a poetic sense, emotions give color to life.
Since God is all light and in Him is no darkness at all...what we term God's dark emotions (God's jealousy and God's anger) are all light. Light crystallizes and makes images clear, defined, and distinct. God's anger and jealously help define and distinguish right from wrong, idolatry from true worship....yes??
Ramble, ramble, ramble......Why is it hard for me to grasp that God's nature includes jealousy and vengence and judgement? Is this concept foggy to me due to TWI's murky definition of sin, and (for that matter) culture's definition? Or is it foggy simply because of my finite human capacity and the way my own intellect gets in the way of simplicity? Is it foggy because of my experience with human jealously and anger and my experiential defintion of these terms? I'm sure my fogginess is a combination effect. Is this concept (God's "darker" side, which is really all light) more clear to other people outside TWI indoctrination?
Pipes sits with that pondering look on her face...and then thinks....
"Oh, what the hell!! Don't make it so damn complicated!!!"
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