Catcup and ResearchGeek were sent to school by TWI, but I'm not sure to what level. I do remember one or both of them posting about things they found that were contradictory to vee pee's teachings and being shut down, as was Shoenheit.
Not sure of any formal training or education of John or if he just picked it up.
He did not mishandle the Word, distort it, or bend it to suit his *fancies* as docvic did.
He was fired because he threatened the *big boys'* playground (if you will).
Sorry -- back to topic.
Interesting...so was he trained post-TWI involvement or pre-TWI involvement?
How about Daniel McConaughy?
That's the critical part of the question...not so much who had integrity or not, but when were the people who were Biblical Scholars, theologians, church historians, etc., trained?
The reason why I'm asking is to find out if anybody who actually was fully educated on the subject came into TWI after his/her training?
I remember a few ex-ministers who joined twi from other denominations (whose names escape me at the moment). Not sure I ever heard of their seminary training. I know there were some who were "adjunct" faculty who were learned in Greek and/or Aramaic, though their training also was not disclosed. They, for the most part, were forced to dumb down their training as many of the way corps they taught weren't college material and were somewhere in the range of 8th-12th grade in their language / grammar / reading skills. All they could handle were the most basic of course work.
Wayne Clapp at the Indiana Campus (dean for many years) had a Master of something degree and was pursuing a doctorate, but I don't think I recall him actually teaching, just getting his freebee education courtesy of the slave corps.
David, I in no way was trying to discredit John. I just never heard anything about him having any formal education and training before or during his TWI years. That was the question and that's what I was trying to answer. :)
David, I in no way was trying to discredit John. I just never heard anything about him having any formal education and training before or during his TWI years. That was the question and that's what I was trying to answer. :)
I know. Sorry if it sounded like I was accusing you. I wasn't. ;)
“To enhance his ability to serve the Body of Christ, John Schoenheit began working part-time on a Master’s of Divinity at the Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina. His tuition was paid by a supporter. “
“A degree from Reformed Theological Seminary indicates that the graduate has completed the requirements for the course of study. Although the M.Div. degree meets the standard educational requirements for ordination in most denominations, the degree does not certify that the graduate necessarily possesses all the biblical qualifications requisite for the ministry or adheres to the Reformed faith. Graduation from Reformed Theological Seminary with either the M.Div. degree or diploma should not in itself be construed as a recommendation for the ministry.
“Ecclesiastical bodies and pulpit committees are responsible for applying their own requirements for ordination to determine the doctrinal soundness, suitability, and readiness for ministry of a particular graduate.”
*****
If the folks at RTS are going to admit Socinian/Unitarian polemicists to the seminary, they need, at the very least, to intensify quite significantly their disclaimer.
I have met several 'scholars' and have been rather shocked at how little they really understood. First of all I guess not one of them even thought any part of the bible is God's Word. I can understand the frustration people have when ministries self destruct. But I got to give Wierwille some credit in how much he hammered that the Word of God is the Will of God. As did Bullinger as did Kenyon. Truth is truth and I do not care who conveys it so long as it is promoted. Most so called biblical theologians have less than 12 semester hours of biblical greek. So what makes a scholar anyway?
I have met several 'scholars' and have been rather shocked at how little they really understood. First of all I guess not one of them even thought any part of the bible is God's Word. I can understand the frustration people have when ministries self destruct. But I got to give Wierwille some credit in how much he hammered that the Word of God is the Will of God. As did Bullinger as did Kenyon. Truth is truth and I do not care who conveys it so long as it is promoted. Most so called biblical theologians have less than 12 semester hours of biblical greek. So what makes a scholar anyway?
so... have we figured out whether (while in) any of the folks had received any education outside of PFAL? I get that John S is taking/has taken some since...
If the folks at RTS are going to admit Socinian/Unitarian polemicists to the seminary, they need, at the very least, to intensify quite significantly their disclaimer.
Awww, why not just ban them from entering the seminary, ... George Wallace style? You know, standing at the entrance of the college and forbidding them to enter?
Really bites you in the foot that there is a Unitarian/Socinian student getting a theology degree from a 'Reformed' (yeah! <_< ) college/university, doesn't it, Cynic? Schoenheit is minding his own business and getting his degree, and here you are getting your panties in a knot about it, ... and they are being polemic?
Yeah, yeah, I know. "There goes the neighborhood!" ... Famous last words, ehh?
Here's my 2 cents. ------I know there was at least one or possibly two men who left POTIFICAL COLLEGE JOSEPHINIUM to persue training and employment with TWI. PCJ is the only Pontifical college in the U.S.A. and even the western hemisphere for that matter. This means it is a direct extension of the Vatican and as such is under the direct jurisdiction of the Pope. I was never Catholic so feel free to correct me if I stated this incorrectly. This institution has both an undergrad as well as graduate program but I do not know the level of study of the person I made reference to. It would seem to be a huge decision in one's life to leave such a prestigious organization. I don't know if that helps but it's another rock to look under.
Founded in 1888, by a German immigrant priest, Msgr. Joseph Jessing, the Pontifical College Josephinum was granted pontifical status in 1892 by Pope Leo XIII, thus becoming, and remaining, the only pontifical seminary in the Western Hemisphere.
Originally founded by Msgr. Jessing, in 1875, as an orphanage, today it educates seminarians from the United States, Asia, Africa and Europe.
Alumni serve the universal Church in 22 foreign countries and 48 states. The Josephinum is comprised of a four-year College of Liberal Arts and a four-year graduate School of Theology.
The Josephinum prepares priests for: U.S. dioceses that do not have their own seminaries; missionary areas of the United States; regions of the U.S. with growing Hispanic communities; and dioceses around the world in need of help with the education of their seminarians."
It's located in Columbus, Ohio, so its mention here is hardly shocking.
I'm not sure about the chain of "who salutes to who" here,
but it doesn't sound like a secret papal training ground or an independent group
not accountable to anyone short of the Vatican.
Not that anyone SAID they were, but the phrasing was peculiar and I wanted to say that outright.
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dmiller
John Schoenheit immediately comes to mind. No one knew the Old Testament better than he did. (my IMO).
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Belle
Catcup and ResearchGeek were sent to school by TWI, but I'm not sure to what level. I do remember one or both of them posting about things they found that were contradictory to vee pee's teachings and being shut down, as was Shoenheit.
Not sure of any formal training or education of John or if he just picked it up.
Good question, Mark!
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dmiller
Forgot to mention Daniel McConaughy as well
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dmiller
John S. was booted for writing a paper condemning adultery -- plain and simple.
You can find it HERE.
He did not mishandle the Word, distort it, or bend it to suit his *fancies* as docvic did.
He was fired because he threatened the *big boys'* playground (if you will).
Sorry -- back to topic.
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markomalley
Interesting...so was he trained post-TWI involvement or pre-TWI involvement?
How about Daniel McConaughy?
That's the critical part of the question...not so much who had integrity or not, but when were the people who were Biblical Scholars, theologians, church historians, etc., trained?
The reason why I'm asking is to find out if anybody who actually was fully educated on the subject came into TWI after his/her training?
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jardinero
Mark:
I remember a few ex-ministers who joined twi from other denominations (whose names escape me at the moment). Not sure I ever heard of their seminary training. I know there were some who were "adjunct" faculty who were learned in Greek and/or Aramaic, though their training also was not disclosed. They, for the most part, were forced to dumb down their training as many of the way corps they taught weren't college material and were somewhere in the range of 8th-12th grade in their language / grammar / reading skills. All they could handle were the most basic of course work.
Wayne Clapp at the Indiana Campus (dean for many years) had a Master of something degree and was pursuing a doctorate, but I don't think I recall him actually teaching, just getting his freebee education courtesy of the slave corps.
J.
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dmiller
Mark -- good questions. Valid even. ;)
John Schoenheit was an atheist, turned believer.
I don't know if he had the *schooling* from twi, or if he picked up on it on his own. I suspect the latter.
I've heard his story, but am fuzzy on the details, so I'll refrain from comment.
Daniel McConaughy was in charge of the WCE research department.
He holds a Ph.D from the University of Chicago, specializing in Syriac, Greek, and early Church history. :)
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Belle
David, I in no way was trying to discredit John. I just never heard anything about him having any formal education and training before or during his TWI years. That was the question and that's what I was trying to answer. :)
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dmiller
I know. Sorry if it sounded like I was accusing you. I wasn't. ;)
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GarthP2000
When I was last involved with the CES group, I heard that John Schoenheit was working on his Doctorate of Divinity degree.
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dmiller
I could be wrong, Garth -- but I think it's Mark G. instead of John S. Mark G. (I know) has been going to Earlam (sp?) for an advanced degree.
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markomalley
Well, I am interested in hearing this.
Please understand that I am not denigrating anybody who may have been university-trained and subsequent to that went into TWI.
J, thanks for that info...
Again, all, specific info would be beneficial. Thanks again all!
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Cynic
From http://www.christianeducational.org/timeline.htm , the following is one of the entries for the year 1993:
“To enhance his ability to serve the Body of Christ, John Schoenheit began working part-time on a Master’s of Divinity at the Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina. His tuition was paid by a supporter. “
From RTS Charlotte’s website ( http://www.rts.edu/site/academics/degree_p...mdiv/index.aspx ):
“A degree from Reformed Theological Seminary indicates that the graduate has completed the requirements for the course of study. Although the M.Div. degree meets the standard educational requirements for ordination in most denominations, the degree does not certify that the graduate necessarily possesses all the biblical qualifications requisite for the ministry or adheres to the Reformed faith. Graduation from Reformed Theological Seminary with either the M.Div. degree or diploma should not in itself be construed as a recommendation for the ministry.
“Ecclesiastical bodies and pulpit committees are responsible for applying their own requirements for ordination to determine the doctrinal soundness, suitability, and readiness for ministry of a particular graduate.”
*****
If the folks at RTS are going to admit Socinian/Unitarian polemicists to the seminary, they need, at the very least, to intensify quite significantly their disclaimer.
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dmiller
Thanks for the clarification, Cynic. I was thinking *these days*. I had forgotten about that. :)
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Paisano
I have met several 'scholars' and have been rather shocked at how little they really understood. First of all I guess not one of them even thought any part of the bible is God's Word. I can understand the frustration people have when ministries self destruct. But I got to give Wierwille some credit in how much he hammered that the Word of God is the Will of God. As did Bullinger as did Kenyon. Truth is truth and I do not care who conveys it so long as it is promoted. Most so called biblical theologians have less than 12 semester hours of biblical greek. So what makes a scholar anyway?
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Oakspear
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markomalley
Welcome to gsc...
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Tom Strange
so... have we figured out whether (while in) any of the folks had received any education outside of PFAL? I get that John S is taking/has taken some since...
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WordWolf
I wonder where the enigmatic Peter Wade falls in the continuum.
I know he had the brains to leave early-perhaps it was an educated brain.
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Tom Strange
Yeah... I was wondering about him and Walter Cummings.
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GarthP2000
Awww, why not just ban them from entering the seminary, ... George Wallace style? You know, standing at the entrance of the college and forbidding them to enter?
Really bites you in the foot that there is a Unitarian/Socinian student getting a theology degree from a 'Reformed' (yeah! <_< ) college/university, doesn't it, Cynic? Schoenheit is minding his own business and getting his degree, and here you are getting your panties in a knot about it, ... and they are being polemic?
Yeah, yeah, I know. "There goes the neighborhood!" ... Famous last words, ehh?
Ever the laugh-a-minute you are.
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Cynic
Garth: Ever the proud, loud, small-souled little fellow.
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waysider
Here's my 2 cents. ------I know there was at least one or possibly two men who left POTIFICAL COLLEGE JOSEPHINIUM to persue training and employment with TWI. PCJ is the only Pontifical college in the U.S.A. and even the western hemisphere for that matter. This means it is a direct extension of the Vatican and as such is under the direct jurisdiction of the Pope. I was never Catholic so feel free to correct me if I stated this incorrectly. This institution has both an undergrad as well as graduate program but I do not know the level of study of the person I made reference to. It would seem to be a huge decision in one's life to leave such a prestigious organization. I don't know if that helps but it's another rock to look under.
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WordWolf
I did not find Garth's comment inappropriate, myself.
=========
In other news, on their own website (http://www.pcj.edu/intro/intropage.html)
Pontifical College Josephinum says this:
"ABOUT THE JOSEPHINUM
Founded in 1888, by a German immigrant priest, Msgr. Joseph Jessing, the Pontifical College Josephinum was granted pontifical status in 1892 by Pope Leo XIII, thus becoming, and remaining, the only pontifical seminary in the Western Hemisphere.
Originally founded by Msgr. Jessing, in 1875, as an orphanage, today it educates seminarians from the United States, Asia, Africa and Europe.
Alumni serve the universal Church in 22 foreign countries and 48 states. The Josephinum is comprised of a four-year College of Liberal Arts and a four-year graduate School of Theology.
The Josephinum prepares priests for: U.S. dioceses that do not have their own seminaries; missionary areas of the United States; regions of the U.S. with growing Hispanic communities; and dioceses around the world in need of help with the education of their seminarians."
It's located in Columbus, Ohio, so its mention here is hardly shocking.
I'm not sure about the chain of "who salutes to who" here,
but it doesn't sound like a secret papal training ground or an independent group
not accountable to anyone short of the Vatican.
Not that anyone SAID they were, but the phrasing was peculiar and I wanted to say that outright.
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