"In the latter part of the '70s and early '80s, [David Berg], responding in part to the sexual liberality of that time period, presented the possibility of trying out a more personal and intimate form of witnessing which became known as 'Flirty Fishing' or 'FFing'. In his Letters at that time, he offered the challenging proposal that since 'God is Love' (1 John 4:8), and His Son, Jesus, is the physical manifestation and embodiment of God's Love for humanity, then we as Christian recipients of that Love are in turn responsible to be living samples to others of God's great all-encompassing Love. Taking the Apostle Paul's writings literally, that saved Christians are 'dead to the Law [of Moses]' (Romans 7:4), through faith in Jesus, [berg] arrived at the rather shocking conclusion that Christians were therefore free through God's grace to go to great lengths to show the Love of God to others, even as far as meeting their sexual needs."
And this:
"Q: "What is FF'ing?" Many of you asked for a definition and what should be reported as actual FF'ing.
A: We would like to answer that FF'ing is going out witnessing the love of Jesus with the serious intent to use sex or sex appeal as the bait, regardless of the situation or place. This can be anywhere!–On the street, in a park, while going to the local store, in discotheques or in clubs!
Q: Does "Loved Sexually" also include kissing and light petting?
A: We suggest you only include masturbation, sucking and actual intercourse in the figures of fish, mate, brother or sister loved sexually. It's all, or nothing at all! Hallelujah!"
==========
"Escort Servicing (ESing) was a quick result of the introduction of The Family's Flirty Fishing (FFing) doctrine. Female members were told to "make it pay", and many became employed by escort agencies and/or massage services which were fronts for the sex industry. Working conditions and usually unwritten terms required by such agencies made it understood that an "employee" had to prostitute herself."
=======
"After David Berg's infidellity with Karen Zerby, The Family International became sexually liberal in a drastic way. Berg's obsession with sex and deviant sexual taste is well documented (often by himself, as he published his fantasies with his mother, step-daughter, and nearly any female he knew).
He also promoted sexual abuse by characterizing paraphilia, such as incest and pedophilia, as natural and merely running afoul of "man's laws".
He supervized the sexual molestation of his son, Ricky Rodriguez, who ended up murdering one of his early caretakers and commiting suicide in 2005."
As pretty as their official press releases look,
it seems that BEHIND THE SCENES, they're very ugly and evil,
I do remember this group being around in the early '70s, and yes, I did hear they were supposed to be into free sex. I remember a house where they lived in my neighborhood in the Bronx.
I never explored their beliefs. Here are more of them,
I had a brush with this group in California, when it was still called Children of God.
A young guy who was coming to a home fellowship at my neighbors' (not affiliated with any larger group...just sort of a hippie Christian commune), got sucked in by these people. We were worried about him, because he just vanished all of a sudden. We never saw him again after he said they had "witnessed" to him.
We went to the house where the Children of God people were staying. We weren't even allowed to talk to the guy. This was a long time ago, but best I can recall, they told us we could see him some other time IF and ONLY IF he was accompanied by one of them.
It was creepy.
I moved out of state soon afterward, so I never knew what happened to this nice young guy. I hope he had the sense not to let them keep running his life.
Their 'own' words don't sound too bad. They even get out into the world and GIVE... that's far more than TWI ever did...
Oh, but the sex stuff... that is just MORE than I cared to hear about... DISGUSTING... and still there are people claiming how they love it where they're at in the group?...
So many things in the world for Parents to be concerned for their children and loved one's safety...
Cults are right up there with DRUGS in my opinion... Getting involved could mean the end of any relationship…
The following excerpts about The Family/The Children of God is from AMG's Encyclopedia of World Religions, Cults & the Occult compiled by Mark Water, 2006, AMG Publishers, pages 628, 631:
"…David Brandt Berg was affectionately known as "Moses David," "Mo," [being short for "Moses"], "Father David," and "Dad" to Family members…The Family traces its origins to 1968 and Huntington beach, California. There David Berg, also known as Father David or Moses David, together with his wife and teenage children, began a ministry to the counterculture youth of that seaside town…At the end of 1969, when the group had grown to about 100 members, it was dubbed "The Children of God" by the news media. By 1972, there were 130 Children of God communities scattered throughout the world…In early 1978, The Children of God was formally dissolved and a new group, The Family of Love, with a new organizational structure was formed. In recent years, they have become known simply as The Family…
…There are approximately 12,000 full-time and associate adult volunteer members in The Family working out of over 1,400 centers, or communities, situated in over 100 countries…
…Official Publications
Mo Letters: Berg wrote more than 2,500 letters which became known as "Mo Letters."
Mama Letters from Berg's common-law wife [mistress], Karen Zerby [Maria], are also considered authoritative.
"What better way to show them the love of God than to do your best to supply their desperately hungry needs for love, fellowship, companionship, mental and spiritual communication, and physical needs such as food, clothing, shelter, warmth, affection, a tender kiss, a soft warm embrace, the healing touch of your loving hands, the comforting feeling of your body next to theirs – and yes, even sex if need be!" David Berg's Letters, no 79
"There's no amount of love that could possibly be illegitimate to try to win a soul! There's no sin in love to begin with, and there's no "sin" so great that God would condemn you for it when it's done in love…because when it's love it can't be sin." David Berg's Letters, no 81
End of Excerpts…
If you ask me, VPW hijacked the wrong movement. I think this group would have been more up his alley.
When I was at this boot camp style maritime training school, it was a Children Of God Guy who first told me what he knew of Jesus Christ. And, it was pretty mainstream, but his enthusiasm was infectuous, and I believe that he may have gotten me born again. He was sincere, kind, and an amazing person. Later, I realized that the group' practices were way skewed, but I have always believed that God worked in that guy at that time. I will always be thankfull for Bob Ober from Seattle.
But later, after I had graduated and been to sea for a year and was back on the beach, I went out to San Francisco to ship out to the far east. My two buddies and I had about three grand apiece (this was in '74), and we lived high on the hog in a nice hotel on Turk Street, and ate good food at restaurants and partied every night. During the day, we hung out at the Seafarers International Union shipping hall on Mission Street. I was seventeen, and we had ourselves some times. But then one night, we met these three girls who were very pretty, dressed sexy, and who had invited us to a "feast" with "The Children Of God". Well, at the time, I had this burgeoning hunger to know God, and so I was interested. But my two buddies on the other hand were only interested in our other avocation, which was that of always trying to get laid. They didn't want to go to any "God meeting" as they called it. But, I was bugging them about going, but to no avail. Then, the next night, we met those gals again, and this time they had some tract pamphlets. And one of them, on the front page had a similar illustration of a nearly naked couple embracing in the act of sex (similar to the one on the link one of you provided), and the title of the tract was "The Love Of God".
Upon asking the girls about the love of God and sex, they launched into this whole explanation about how and why sex actually is the love of God. And at that point, my two buddies became extremely interested in going to the feast that upcoming weekend. And they told them that we would be there. And so, they went on their merry way, witnessing I suppose.
But later after we got back to our hotel room with two quarts of Colt 45 Malt Liquor apiece and a fifth of tequila (nice combo huh? yuk!) and commenced to get drunk, we got into this argument about the Children Of God girls. They wanted to go to the feast so they could get laid, but I disagreed saying that it just had to be wrong in the eyes of God. And to that one of them said something like; "Oh hell we don't care about what's right in God's eyes! We just want some p u ss y!" Well at that point, I shoved one of them and told him never to talk like that about God, and he shoved me back, and then we got into a huge fight that lasted for about fifteen minutes and we broke every bedside table, both beds, the lamps, every thing. The place was in absolute shambles before we finally ran out of breath and stopped. And we were cut and bruised and black eyed and everything that comes with a good brawl. For some reason, we never heard from the manager, and so, we ended up drinking the rest of the booze and then went out and cruised the red light district. The Tenderloin I think it was called. :blink:
But I'll always remember that that big fight started over those girls trying to tempt us with their booty to get us involved in the Children Of God, and how at the time, I felt like I was "sticking up for God" by challenging my friends for mocking God. And, my buddies never did go to the feast! Haha!
And I also remember feeling bad that my friend Bob Ober (who all three of us knew) was hooked up with that group that I then knew was something other than right on. It was tough to listen to my two buddies saying; "Haha! No wonder old Bob Ober was involved in that group! He was there for the sex!" Those were also some of the things said before we had that big fight.
And, we moved out of that hotel the next morning, and got a cheaper one. Turns out we somehow blew all of our money in about two months, and I really have no idea where it went....
So that's the new name of the Children of God, huh? One of the original members of Fleetwood Mac, guitarist Jeremy Spencer, left the group in 1970 to join the Children of God. well, 36 years later he's still with them, and he was on stage in Cleveland in the late 90s when Fleetwood Mac was inducted into the R&R hall of fame.
Their statement of beliefs was OK all except for the part about "spirits of departed saints"?????!!!!!
Recommended Posts
oldiesman
I think their statement of beliefs look pretty good.
Beliefs of The Family
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
They were formerly known as "The Children of God"... they've been around as long as TWI... well, since TWI outgrew the basement at veepee's house...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
"Family International" is the new name for the group that called itself
"Children of God."
Here's an informational resource on them.
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Main_Page
Now,
HERE's some interesting reads...
That organization said this:
"In the latter part of the '70s and early '80s, [David Berg], responding in part to the sexual liberality of that time period, presented the possibility of trying out a more personal and intimate form of witnessing which became known as 'Flirty Fishing' or 'FFing'. In his Letters at that time, he offered the challenging proposal that since 'God is Love' (1 John 4:8), and His Son, Jesus, is the physical manifestation and embodiment of God's Love for humanity, then we as Christian recipients of that Love are in turn responsible to be living samples to others of God's great all-encompassing Love. Taking the Apostle Paul's writings literally, that saved Christians are 'dead to the Law [of Moses]' (Romans 7:4), through faith in Jesus, [berg] arrived at the rather shocking conclusion that Christians were therefore free through God's grace to go to great lengths to show the Love of God to others, even as far as meeting their sexual needs."
And this:
"Q: "What is FF'ing?" Many of you asked for a definition and what should be reported as actual FF'ing.
A: We would like to answer that FF'ing is going out witnessing the love of Jesus with the serious intent to use sex or sex appeal as the bait, regardless of the situation or place. This can be anywhere!–On the street, in a park, while going to the local store, in discotheques or in clubs!
Q: Does "Loved Sexually" also include kissing and light petting?
A: We suggest you only include masturbation, sucking and actual intercourse in the figures of fish, mate, brother or sister loved sexually. It's all, or nothing at all! Hallelujah!"
==========
"Escort Servicing (ESing) was a quick result of the introduction of The Family's Flirty Fishing (FFing) doctrine. Female members were told to "make it pay", and many became employed by escort agencies and/or massage services which were fronts for the sex industry. Working conditions and usually unwritten terms required by such agencies made it understood that an "employee" had to prostitute herself."
=======
"After David Berg's infidellity with Karen Zerby, The Family International became sexually liberal in a drastic way. Berg's obsession with sex and deviant sexual taste is well documented (often by himself, as he published his fantasies with his mother, step-daughter, and nearly any female he knew).
He also promoted sexual abuse by characterizing paraphilia, such as incest and pedophilia, as natural and merely running afoul of "man's laws".
He supervized the sexual molestation of his son, Ricky Rodriguez, who ended up murdering one of his early caretakers and commiting suicide in 2005."
As pretty as their official press releases look,
it seems that BEHIND THE SCENES, they're very ugly and evil,
and have amazing curtains of secrecy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
Tom/WW:
Like I said, for an ex-TWI person, it sounds pretty chilling
OM:
If it sounds good to you, you should go check it out!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Well, I think I'll pass.
I do remember this group being around in the early '70s, and yes, I did hear they were supposed to be into free sex. I remember a house where they lived in my neighborhood in the Bronx.
I never explored their beliefs. Here are more of them,
The Mo Letters
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
I had a brush with this group in California, when it was still called Children of God.
A young guy who was coming to a home fellowship at my neighbors' (not affiliated with any larger group...just sort of a hippie Christian commune), got sucked in by these people. We were worried about him, because he just vanished all of a sudden. We never saw him again after he said they had "witnessed" to him.
We went to the house where the Children of God people were staying. We weren't even allowed to talk to the guy. This was a long time ago, but best I can recall, they told us we could see him some other time IF and ONLY IF he was accompanied by one of them.
It was creepy.
I moved out of state soon afterward, so I never knew what happened to this nice young guy. I hope he had the sense not to let them keep running his life.
Edited by Linda ZLink to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
That's really scary, Linda! :( I hope the guy made it out safely, too.
Talk is cheap in my book anymore. Folks can say anything they want; it's the actions, reputation, character and fruit that I pay attention to.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
SafariVista
shivers......
Their 'own' words don't sound too bad. They even get out into the world and GIVE... that's far more than TWI ever did...
Oh, but the sex stuff... that is just MORE than I cared to hear about... DISGUSTING... and still there are people claiming how they love it where they're at in the group?...
So many things in the world for Parents to be concerned for their children and loved one's safety...
Cults are right up there with DRUGS in my opinion... Getting involved could mean the end of any relationship…
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheEvan
See, OM, their basic beliefs aren't enough to make the group anything other than trash.
Just saying...
Trying not to try too hard in drawing a parallel...
But if the shoe fits...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
The following excerpts about The Family/The Children of God is from AMG's Encyclopedia of World Religions, Cults & the Occult compiled by Mark Water, 2006, AMG Publishers, pages 628, 631:
"…David Brandt Berg was affectionately known as "Moses David," "Mo," [being short for "Moses"], "Father David," and "Dad" to Family members…The Family traces its origins to 1968 and Huntington beach, California. There David Berg, also known as Father David or Moses David, together with his wife and teenage children, began a ministry to the counterculture youth of that seaside town…At the end of 1969, when the group had grown to about 100 members, it was dubbed "The Children of God" by the news media. By 1972, there were 130 Children of God communities scattered throughout the world…In early 1978, The Children of God was formally dissolved and a new group, The Family of Love, with a new organizational structure was formed. In recent years, they have become known simply as The Family…
…There are approximately 12,000 full-time and associate adult volunteer members in The Family working out of over 1,400 centers, or communities, situated in over 100 countries…
…Official Publications
Mo Letters: Berg wrote more than 2,500 letters which became known as "Mo Letters."
Mama Letters from Berg's common-law wife [mistress], Karen Zerby [Maria], are also considered authoritative.
"What better way to show them the love of God than to do your best to supply their desperately hungry needs for love, fellowship, companionship, mental and spiritual communication, and physical needs such as food, clothing, shelter, warmth, affection, a tender kiss, a soft warm embrace, the healing touch of your loving hands, the comforting feeling of your body next to theirs – and yes, even sex if need be!" David Berg's Letters, no 79
"There's no amount of love that could possibly be illegitimate to try to win a soul! There's no sin in love to begin with, and there's no "sin" so great that God would condemn you for it when it's done in love…because when it's love it can't be sin." David Berg's Letters, no 81
End of Excerpts…
If you ask me, VPW hijacked the wrong movement. I think this group would have been more up his alley.
Edited by T-BoneLink to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Weird!
When I was at this boot camp style maritime training school, it was a Children Of God Guy who first told me what he knew of Jesus Christ. And, it was pretty mainstream, but his enthusiasm was infectuous, and I believe that he may have gotten me born again. He was sincere, kind, and an amazing person. Later, I realized that the group' practices were way skewed, but I have always believed that God worked in that guy at that time. I will always be thankfull for Bob Ober from Seattle.
But later, after I had graduated and been to sea for a year and was back on the beach, I went out to San Francisco to ship out to the far east. My two buddies and I had about three grand apiece (this was in '74), and we lived high on the hog in a nice hotel on Turk Street, and ate good food at restaurants and partied every night. During the day, we hung out at the Seafarers International Union shipping hall on Mission Street. I was seventeen, and we had ourselves some times. But then one night, we met these three girls who were very pretty, dressed sexy, and who had invited us to a "feast" with "The Children Of God". Well, at the time, I had this burgeoning hunger to know God, and so I was interested. But my two buddies on the other hand were only interested in our other avocation, which was that of always trying to get laid. They didn't want to go to any "God meeting" as they called it. But, I was bugging them about going, but to no avail. Then, the next night, we met those gals again, and this time they had some tract pamphlets. And one of them, on the front page had a similar illustration of a nearly naked couple embracing in the act of sex (similar to the one on the link one of you provided), and the title of the tract was "The Love Of God".
Upon asking the girls about the love of God and sex, they launched into this whole explanation about how and why sex actually is the love of God. And at that point, my two buddies became extremely interested in going to the feast that upcoming weekend. And they told them that we would be there. And so, they went on their merry way, witnessing I suppose.
But later after we got back to our hotel room with two quarts of Colt 45 Malt Liquor apiece and a fifth of tequila (nice combo huh? yuk!) and commenced to get drunk, we got into this argument about the Children Of God girls. They wanted to go to the feast so they could get laid, but I disagreed saying that it just had to be wrong in the eyes of God. And to that one of them said something like; "Oh hell we don't care about what's right in God's eyes! We just want some p u ss y!" Well at that point, I shoved one of them and told him never to talk like that about God, and he shoved me back, and then we got into a huge fight that lasted for about fifteen minutes and we broke every bedside table, both beds, the lamps, every thing. The place was in absolute shambles before we finally ran out of breath and stopped. And we were cut and bruised and black eyed and everything that comes with a good brawl. For some reason, we never heard from the manager, and so, we ended up drinking the rest of the booze and then went out and cruised the red light district. The Tenderloin I think it was called. :blink:
But I'll always remember that that big fight started over those girls trying to tempt us with their booty to get us involved in the Children Of God, and how at the time, I felt like I was "sticking up for God" by challenging my friends for mocking God. And, my buddies never did go to the feast! Haha!
And I also remember feeling bad that my friend Bob Ober (who all three of us knew) was hooked up with that group that I then knew was something other than right on. It was tough to listen to my two buddies saying; "Haha! No wonder old Bob Ober was involved in that group! He was there for the sex!" Those were also some of the things said before we had that big fight.
And, we moved out of that hotel the next morning, and got a cheaper one. Turns out we somehow blew all of our money in about two months, and I really have no idea where it went....
Edited by Jonny LingoLink to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
So that's the new name of the Children of God, huh? One of the original members of Fleetwood Mac, guitarist Jeremy Spencer, left the group in 1970 to join the Children of God. well, 36 years later he's still with them, and he was on stage in Cleveland in the late 90s when Fleetwood Mac was inducted into the R&R hall of fame.
Their statement of beliefs was OK all except for the part about "spirits of departed saints"?????!!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.