My experience will not benefit you, I don't think. I came to twi as an adult, and my children were too small when I left for me to comment effectively on the roles/expectations of kids.
I babysat for leadership's kids...and while the kids I watched were mostly fine, I remember organizing activities for children's fellowships during certain classes...the kids I knew were kids...a few were supercilious brats raised that way by arrogant parents, and most were nice kids, though very naive about life in general. More naive than most kids, I think.
So, if any of that helps, I'm glad, and if you have any questions about those things, perhaps I could help there.
I think TWI (in the area I lived in, during the nineties) viewed children as an inconvenient burden. They required time, money, attention, and provided nothing to the ministry (well, except that cute kids were good for door to door. I know our HFC always split my kids up between different witnessing groups to share the cute.)
Children were to be quiet, (except when they were supposed to be bold) sit still, obey every adult instantly, and never get sick. Chronic illness (like ear infections, any one?) was bad! bad! Oh, and you'd better be smacking them frequently with that rod.
Our area ceased to do Children's Fellowship during meetings because the adults needed to hear the Words of the minimog.
We rarely told our HF/HFC when our children were ill. There would be no help or prayer or ministering offered. it would just be an open door for the HFC to jump on a 'weakness'.
No areas were set aside for breast feeding moms. I remember trying to nurse a fussy baby during a day long limb meeting, and a creepy guy chose that moment to come 'fellowship' with me. He told me he was single because he couldn't find a woman who could keep up with him sexually. He was an HFC, too. I still get the creeps thinking about that.
I saw the LC wife smacking her 4 yr old because he didn't want to play the limb games. Fun! Same Mrs Minimog told me she could hardly wait until he could go to full day kindergarten with the after school childcare program, so he would be out of her hair. This was during the full time staff corps days. What else did she do all day? She had an article in the Way mag not too long ago. Yep, she'd someone I would listen to with respect!
They didn't want children, they wanted Stepford children.
I was in twi for 10 years (age 20-30) before going into the family corps, so I have a few observations as a single adult, a married wife of a twig coordinator, and as a mom.
Kids were a rarity when I first got involved (1974)...and after I got married there was only one couple in our twig who had kids. Sadly, they would put their kids to bed and leave them home alone (thank God nothing ever happened to them) when we would run a class, etc. I remember feeling clueless as to how to accomodate kids into the twi schedule, and for all the "leaders" meetings we attended in the early years, I don't remember any useful suggestions about what to do for/with the kids except they weren't supposed to interrupt the "teaching of the Word".
By the time we moved out of that area and had a child, there were many people with young kids. That didn't stop the constant meetings. It seemed that for awhile there we had branch meetings every Sunday morning in a H o liday I nn, so we had to dress up and haul all the baby stuff to this crappy meeting room. The only way to keep my son quiet was to nurse him constantly, so I would sit there in a dressy blouse and skirt with my breast stuck in his mouth, covered by a receiving blanket. (Oral fixation, anyone?)
He would eventually get tired of that and want to move (go figure), so I would end up in the lobby with other moms. I hated it. I felt so torn because on one hand I just wanted to be home hanging out with my son, but on the other hand on some level I resented him because he was keeping me from "hearing the Word". I just want to vomit typing that.
He got the short end of the stick because twi took up so much time...rushing to cook and clean and get him bathed, dressed, and ready for bed before running a class in our home. Rushing through reading bedtime stories...lots of guilt on my part.
He was four by the time we went into the family corps. In some ways it was fun for him...always had playmates, rural setting with pigs and sheep, coming to work with me when I worked on grounds...catching baby frogs.
We had to leave our kids behind for a month each year...two weeks when we'd leave for lightbearers and almost two weeks for LEAD. We all left our kids in the care of other parents while we were gone. He seemed to handle it pretty well, but who really knows? And as if there weren't already enough demands on your time as a parent, you get to take care of someone else's kids while the parents are away. I can't imagine that the kids thrived in that setting.
I helped run some Children Fellowship meetings in Texas for a very short time. (Early to mid-'80's)
We had the bright idea to give the kids thier own tiime of fellowship on Sat Am. It got them away from the endless cartoons and was supposed to help them get the Word on a level they could relate to. I was in charge of crafts. YOu never really see how lame a craft is until you try to take every one and attach a scripture verse to it. (sigh)
Anyway, I was supposed to use the "rod of correction" a lot. I always felt uncomfortable panking some else's kid so I didn't do that much. I always felt that a few minutes of spanking couldn't undo whatever "bad" behaviour was allowed at home - it could only serve to confuse a child that already had too many burdens placed on him or her.
I DO remember one leader in Houston telling parents how to use the rod, if they were at a meeting where there would be no Children's Fellowhip -:
After removing them from a meeting:
When they whine - spank them. Once, on the back of the leg, don't get the diaper. It should smart!
If they whine spank them again - a bit harder.
Keep this up until they submit.
I'm so thankful that I was out by the time my own kids were born. I would have never made it as a "good woman of God and a Mother" in twi's eyes.
We were in FWC 20 for 3 months. My son described it to me much later, "It's like they (staff, elder WC, leadership) were the Nazi's and we were the Jews. Touch a wall, you get a beating. Talk out of turn, somebody hits you with a spoon."
I wish I had a wooden spoon to insert retrograde into every one of those jerks who hit my son.
First of all, thank you to everyone who is responding! Your information is very helpful!
Word Wolf: I’m really interested in any information. I was specifically involved in the late 70’s and early 80’s, but I’m interested in the general trend that was prevalent in TWI. I’ve been surprised to see how many of the same issues I’ve had to work through that other adults have had to work through as well as a result of being involved with TWI. So I’m trying tolearn from others about their experiences and what they witnessed so that I could get an idea of what went on. At times I’ve wondered if I was brainwashed b/c I have very few memories of ANYTHING until I reach high school age. My dad was supposedly pretty high up in TWI, so I think that he probably embraced quite a few of the prevailing themes of this group, despite being forced to leave.
Bramble, that story of the guy who approached you while you are nursing—very creepy! ICK! Also, you’re idea of Stepford children…sometimes I’ve felt that way. My dad always accused me of being disrespectful anytime I disagreed with him. I was taught to be quiet and a loner. Even though it was not directly stated there was always a pressure for perfection and should it not be achieved then disappointment, spankings, and long talkings to about the Bible would always ensue.
Tonto, I’m sorry that you were torn the way you were with your son and the meetings. I’m sure that was very difficult for you. I’m also sorry that it has left you with the guilt that it has. Thank you for sharing your story.
Doojable: Spankings were definitely commonplace to my experience too. “Spare the rod, spoil the child”. I could never get away from that scripture even when I tried to talk myself out of getting spanked for something I believed to be undeserved. I think you were right on the money with your thoughts about spanking other people’s children.
By the way, what is HF & HFC? I haven’t quite learned the acronyms yet.
Also, were there ever reports of sexual abuse of the children? The group seems so insulated that it seems like it would not be impossible and with all the reports of it with the adults I’m wondering if it happened with the kids too.
#2: Regarding sexual abuse of children, there are several threads that cover that nasty subject, and I expect someone with more expertise than I will find them for you and post a link(s).
There is at least one thread covering a WC grad who is in prison as I type for just that thing.
HFC: home fellowship coordinator (formerly known as twig leader or twig coordinator).
I got in the Way when I was 11 and didn't leave until I was 39. I saw a change in the way children were treated. When I was 11 and 12 there was a great emphasis on children and training us up or indoctrinating us. Not only did they have children's fellowship at every big event but we had our own fellowships on Saturday afternoons and summer programs that even us kids were involved in putting on. As a teen my teenage brother was asked to handle the teen fellowship and we were given our own fellowship in addition to the regular fellowships and were asked to be involved in the meetings in areas of setup and way productions. We were on class crews and involved where ever the adults were involved.
At the ROA however we were let to run free. As long as we didn't cause a raucus and wake people up we were allowed to run freely. Our parents were busy "getting into the Word" while we were busy getting into trouble. Now as for me I always had that good girl mentality, but I spent numerous afternoons in my teen years with family corps kids who were drinking, carousing (driving off ground with no one knowing this), and I knew of a couple who engaged in sex before they were 16. I was appalled at this even then.
As I got older and started having my own kids we were to keep these kids under the subjection at all times. I remember getting reproved because my 2 year old was playing with the socks on her feet during the 10 minute prayers the leaders would execute. I was told that she should be sitting still during prayer and that it was unruly for her to play with her socks. I felt like I had to reprimand the poor kids constantly. Children's fellowship was something they had to get the kids out of the room so the adults could concentrate on the Word being taught, which by then had no heart left in it. We did have one woman who seemed to focus on the kids but they were for the most part an after throught
The ROA had become different too. We were supposed to know where our kids were at all times. Everything seemed to change from the time I was a kid. My kids weren't allowed the same freedoms and honestly knowing what went on back in my childhood I was ok with that. The ROA ended though before I really had to worry about those behaviors anyway.
Also to add, I remember getting slapped upside the head because I told my dad that I was going to go to College and study engineering. He told me that I was going into the Way Corps and going to serve God. I told him it was MY life and that I would do with it as I saw fit. That's when he slapped me and told me that listening to the radio had caused my attitude. Billy Joel had a song out around that time called My Life.
I am still angry today about that one because here I am 43 going to college as I wanted to at 16. I went into the Corps and ended up "Serving God" as my dad had planned for me.
The biggest battle I have in my head is not to feel that my life has been wasted. I kinda like who I am today and I wouldn't be that person without the experiences of my past.
Try to get hold of the book "The Cult that Snapped" by Karl Kahler. It has really been a must in my recovery from the Way. After being out 4 years I have finally gotten to the place where I could look at the Way honestly and Karl gives some historical information on the true attitudes and errors of the Way. He backs it up with proof.
Man that sucks! I can see how the decision your dad forced you into must be very difficult to handle; I'm not sure I could handle it with the grace you seem to be doing it with. Nonetheless, I'm glad that you're finding some healing. I actually mailed a check to Karl earlier this week so that I could get a copy of his book. Hopefully it'll arrive soon. Thanks for the recommendation though.
No problem. Hope you are able to sort through the crap you were fed as a child. You seem to have a really good attitude to start out with. You will probably do just fine.
As I've posted previously, I was in TWI During my early years. I don't have any particularly "bad" TWI memories. I was in the Family Corps and both my parents were TCs. I was indoctrinated with TWI teachings in my formative years. I think most of the stuff I learned are things I still believe. I remember being required to memorize alot of stuff in the Corps and afterward and, suprizingly, I have retained alot of it: Retemeries, the 16 keys to Walking By the Spirit, 9 manifestations of the spirit, keys to believing, and the fruits of the spirit. Looking back, I think that some of the teachings were probably wrong (like "devil spirits" and the majority of the advanced class, and the need for abundant sharing). However, I think the doctrine was on the right track even if it was plagerized. What drew my parents and so many into TWI was that the emphasis was strongly on the Word. I don't think VPW drew them in, it wasa the word that drew them in.
I was 11 in 79, and have been in TWI untill just under a year ago. I spent time as jr corps and a miniwow growing up and eventually went into the corpse on my own and wow. around that time, alot of us went because we were expected to.
alot of the people I grew up around left the ministry alot sooner than I did, they got tired of being told what was expected of them and wanted to think for themselves.
It took me awhile to get to that point, my family is still in, but my house is out! I understand what freeatlast went through, I passed up on a full scholership because I felt that I had to go wow. now I am always feeling like I am playing catch-up.
Children in TWi are under more pressure and stress than in any school, for they feel that if they mess up, their parents suffer.
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excathedra
i hope you get answers here
there are a few posters who grew up in TWI but they're not on here daily
hang in there, k ?
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WordWolf
There are a few different answers to that, and they depend on a few variables.
Do you mean in the 70s, 80s or 90s?
Do you mean "grew up in the home of members",
or "grew up living near a 'Root locale' at home",
or "grew up AT a Root locale as Family Corps or staff or whatever" ?
The answers varied depending on those.
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QuietThinker
I'm sure there are people who can help, qtana :-)
My experience will not benefit you, I don't think. I came to twi as an adult, and my children were too small when I left for me to comment effectively on the roles/expectations of kids.
I babysat for leadership's kids...and while the kids I watched were mostly fine, I remember organizing activities for children's fellowships during certain classes...the kids I knew were kids...a few were supercilious brats raised that way by arrogant parents, and most were nice kids, though very naive about life in general. More naive than most kids, I think.
So, if any of that helps, I'm glad, and if you have any questions about those things, perhaps I could help there.
Cheers,
QT
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Bramble
I think TWI (in the area I lived in, during the nineties) viewed children as an inconvenient burden. They required time, money, attention, and provided nothing to the ministry (well, except that cute kids were good for door to door. I know our HFC always split my kids up between different witnessing groups to share the cute.)
Children were to be quiet, (except when they were supposed to be bold) sit still, obey every adult instantly, and never get sick. Chronic illness (like ear infections, any one?) was bad! bad! Oh, and you'd better be smacking them frequently with that rod.
Our area ceased to do Children's Fellowship during meetings because the adults needed to hear the Words of the minimog.
We rarely told our HF/HFC when our children were ill. There would be no help or prayer or ministering offered. it would just be an open door for the HFC to jump on a 'weakness'.
No areas were set aside for breast feeding moms. I remember trying to nurse a fussy baby during a day long limb meeting, and a creepy guy chose that moment to come 'fellowship' with me. He told me he was single because he couldn't find a woman who could keep up with him sexually. He was an HFC, too. I still get the creeps thinking about that.
I saw the LC wife smacking her 4 yr old because he didn't want to play the limb games. Fun! Same Mrs Minimog told me she could hardly wait until he could go to full day kindergarten with the after school childcare program, so he would be out of her hair. This was during the full time staff corps days. What else did she do all day? She had an article in the Way mag not too long ago. Yep, she'd someone I would listen to with respect!
They didn't want children, they wanted Stepford children.
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tonto
I was in twi for 10 years (age 20-30) before going into the family corps, so I have a few observations as a single adult, a married wife of a twig coordinator, and as a mom.
Kids were a rarity when I first got involved (1974)...and after I got married there was only one couple in our twig who had kids. Sadly, they would put their kids to bed and leave them home alone (thank God nothing ever happened to them) when we would run a class, etc. I remember feeling clueless as to how to accomodate kids into the twi schedule, and for all the "leaders" meetings we attended in the early years, I don't remember any useful suggestions about what to do for/with the kids except they weren't supposed to interrupt the "teaching of the Word".
By the time we moved out of that area and had a child, there were many people with young kids. That didn't stop the constant meetings. It seemed that for awhile there we had branch meetings every Sunday morning in a H o liday I nn, so we had to dress up and haul all the baby stuff to this crappy meeting room. The only way to keep my son quiet was to nurse him constantly, so I would sit there in a dressy blouse and skirt with my breast stuck in his mouth, covered by a receiving blanket. (Oral fixation, anyone?)
He would eventually get tired of that and want to move (go figure), so I would end up in the lobby with other moms. I hated it. I felt so torn because on one hand I just wanted to be home hanging out with my son, but on the other hand on some level I resented him because he was keeping me from "hearing the Word". I just want to vomit typing that.
He got the short end of the stick because twi took up so much time...rushing to cook and clean and get him bathed, dressed, and ready for bed before running a class in our home. Rushing through reading bedtime stories...lots of guilt on my part.
He was four by the time we went into the family corps. In some ways it was fun for him...always had playmates, rural setting with pigs and sheep, coming to work with me when I worked on grounds...catching baby frogs.
We had to leave our kids behind for a month each year...two weeks when we'd leave for lightbearers and almost two weeks for LEAD. We all left our kids in the care of other parents while we were gone. He seemed to handle it pretty well, but who really knows? And as if there weren't already enough demands on your time as a parent, you get to take care of someone else's kids while the parents are away. I can't imagine that the kids thrived in that setting.
Don't know if that's what you're looking for...
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doojable
I helped run some Children Fellowship meetings in Texas for a very short time. (Early to mid-'80's)
We had the bright idea to give the kids thier own tiime of fellowship on Sat Am. It got them away from the endless cartoons and was supposed to help them get the Word on a level they could relate to. I was in charge of crafts. YOu never really see how lame a craft is until you try to take every one and attach a scripture verse to it. (sigh)
Anyway, I was supposed to use the "rod of correction" a lot. I always felt uncomfortable panking some else's kid so I didn't do that much. I always felt that a few minutes of spanking couldn't undo whatever "bad" behaviour was allowed at home - it could only serve to confuse a child that already had too many burdens placed on him or her.
I DO remember one leader in Houston telling parents how to use the rod, if they were at a meeting where there would be no Children's Fellowhip -:
After removing them from a meeting:
When they whine - spank them. Once, on the back of the leg, don't get the diaper. It should smart!
If they whine spank them again - a bit harder.
Keep this up until they submit.
I'm so thankful that I was out by the time my own kids were born. I would have never made it as a "good woman of God and a Mother" in twi's eyes.
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Watered Garden
We were in FWC 20 for 3 months. My son described it to me much later, "It's like they (staff, elder WC, leadership) were the Nazi's and we were the Jews. Touch a wall, you get a beating. Talk out of turn, somebody hits you with a spoon."
I wish I had a wooden spoon to insert retrograde into every one of those jerks who hit my son.
WG
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qtana
First of all, thank you to everyone who is responding! Your information is very helpful!
Word Wolf: I’m really interested in any information. I was specifically involved in the late 70’s and early 80’s, but I’m interested in the general trend that was prevalent in TWI. I’ve been surprised to see how many of the same issues I’ve had to work through that other adults have had to work through as well as a result of being involved with TWI. So I’m trying tolearn from others about their experiences and what they witnessed so that I could get an idea of what went on. At times I’ve wondered if I was brainwashed b/c I have very few memories of ANYTHING until I reach high school age. My dad was supposedly pretty high up in TWI, so I think that he probably embraced quite a few of the prevailing themes of this group, despite being forced to leave.
Bramble, that story of the guy who approached you while you are nursing—very creepy! ICK! Also, you’re idea of Stepford children…sometimes I’ve felt that way. My dad always accused me of being disrespectful anytime I disagreed with him. I was taught to be quiet and a loner. Even though it was not directly stated there was always a pressure for perfection and should it not be achieved then disappointment, spankings, and long talkings to about the Bible would always ensue.
Tonto, I’m sorry that you were torn the way you were with your son and the meetings. I’m sure that was very difficult for you. I’m also sorry that it has left you with the guilt that it has. Thank you for sharing your story.
Doojable: Spankings were definitely commonplace to my experience too. “Spare the rod, spoil the child”. I could never get away from that scripture even when I tried to talk myself out of getting spanked for something I believed to be undeserved. I think you were right on the money with your thoughts about spanking other people’s children.
By the way, what is HF & HFC? I haven’t quite learned the acronyms yet.
Also, were there ever reports of sexual abuse of the children? The group seems so insulated that it seems like it would not be impossible and with all the reports of it with the adults I’m wondering if it happened with the kids too.
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Watered Garden
Qtana,
#1: Welcome to the cafe!
#2: Regarding sexual abuse of children, there are several threads that cover that nasty subject, and I expect someone with more expertise than I will find them for you and post a link(s).
There is at least one thread covering a WC grad who is in prison as I type for just that thing.
HFC: home fellowship coordinator (formerly known as twig leader or twig coordinator).
HF: home fellowship.
WG
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FreeAtLast
I got in the Way when I was 11 and didn't leave until I was 39. I saw a change in the way children were treated. When I was 11 and 12 there was a great emphasis on children and training us up or indoctrinating us. Not only did they have children's fellowship at every big event but we had our own fellowships on Saturday afternoons and summer programs that even us kids were involved in putting on. As a teen my teenage brother was asked to handle the teen fellowship and we were given our own fellowship in addition to the regular fellowships and were asked to be involved in the meetings in areas of setup and way productions. We were on class crews and involved where ever the adults were involved.
At the ROA however we were let to run free. As long as we didn't cause a raucus and wake people up we were allowed to run freely. Our parents were busy "getting into the Word" while we were busy getting into trouble. Now as for me I always had that good girl mentality, but I spent numerous afternoons in my teen years with family corps kids who were drinking, carousing (driving off ground with no one knowing this), and I knew of a couple who engaged in sex before they were 16. I was appalled at this even then.
As I got older and started having my own kids we were to keep these kids under the subjection at all times. I remember getting reproved because my 2 year old was playing with the socks on her feet during the 10 minute prayers the leaders would execute. I was told that she should be sitting still during prayer and that it was unruly for her to play with her socks. I felt like I had to reprimand the poor kids constantly. Children's fellowship was something they had to get the kids out of the room so the adults could concentrate on the Word being taught, which by then had no heart left in it. We did have one woman who seemed to focus on the kids but they were for the most part an after throught
The ROA had become different too. We were supposed to know where our kids were at all times. Everything seemed to change from the time I was a kid. My kids weren't allowed the same freedoms and honestly knowing what went on back in my childhood I was ok with that. The ROA ended though before I really had to worry about those behaviors anyway.
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Belle
Here's one: Pedophilia in Alaska
There's many, many, many more threads about pedophilia and TWI hiding the perps. I just actually have to get some work done today.
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FreeAtLast
Also to add, I remember getting slapped upside the head because I told my dad that I was going to go to College and study engineering. He told me that I was going into the Way Corps and going to serve God. I told him it was MY life and that I would do with it as I saw fit. That's when he slapped me and told me that listening to the radio had caused my attitude. Billy Joel had a song out around that time called My Life.
I am still angry today about that one because here I am 43 going to college as I wanted to at 16. I went into the Corps and ended up "Serving God" as my dad had planned for me.
The biggest battle I have in my head is not to feel that my life has been wasted. I kinda like who I am today and I wouldn't be that person without the experiences of my past.
Try to get hold of the book "The Cult that Snapped" by Karl Kahler. It has really been a must in my recovery from the Way. After being out 4 years I have finally gotten to the place where I could look at the Way honestly and Karl gives some historical information on the true attitudes and errors of the Way. He backs it up with proof.
It's a great book!!!
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qtana
Free,
Man that sucks! I can see how the decision your dad forced you into must be very difficult to handle; I'm not sure I could handle it with the grace you seem to be doing it with. Nonetheless, I'm glad that you're finding some healing. I actually mailed a check to Karl earlier this week so that I could get a copy of his book. Hopefully it'll arrive soon. Thanks for the recommendation though.
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FreeAtLast
qtana,
No problem. Hope you are able to sort through the crap you were fed as a child. You seem to have a really good attitude to start out with. You will probably do just fine.
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nowgrown
Hey gtana,
As I've posted previously, I was in TWI During my early years. I don't have any particularly "bad" TWI memories. I was in the Family Corps and both my parents were TCs. I was indoctrinated with TWI teachings in my formative years. I think most of the stuff I learned are things I still believe. I remember being required to memorize alot of stuff in the Corps and afterward and, suprizingly, I have retained alot of it: Retemeries, the 16 keys to Walking By the Spirit, 9 manifestations of the spirit, keys to believing, and the fruits of the spirit. Looking back, I think that some of the teachings were probably wrong (like "devil spirits" and the majority of the advanced class, and the need for abundant sharing). However, I think the doctrine was on the right track even if it was plagerized. What drew my parents and so many into TWI was that the emphasis was strongly on the Word. I don't think VPW drew them in, it wasa the word that drew them in.
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jackdaniels
qtana,
I was 11 in 79, and have been in TWI untill just under a year ago. I spent time as jr corps and a miniwow growing up and eventually went into the corpse on my own and wow. around that time, alot of us went because we were expected to.
alot of the people I grew up around left the ministry alot sooner than I did, they got tired of being told what was expected of them and wanted to think for themselves.
It took me awhile to get to that point, my family is still in, but my house is out! I understand what freeatlast went through, I passed up on a full scholership because I felt that I had to go wow. now I am always feeling like I am playing catch-up.
Children in TWi are under more pressure and stress than in any school, for they feel that if they mess up, their parents suffer.
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