Yes! the big Big BIG difference between JW's and TWI is SONSHIP RIGHTS. The very heart of the revelation given to Paul the Apostle is only to the 144,000 from the book of Revelations.
Only the 144,000 can eat the bread and drink the wine at their annual communion. Manifestations of the Spirit? Fruit of the Spirit? Walking by the Spirit? Dying-and-Rising with Christ? Body-of-Christ? As far as I could tell, the very best of the very best from the Church Epistles is only describing "the anointed" which to the JW teachings is the 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes listed in Revelations.
As far as I could tell, the very best of the very best from the Church Epistles is only describing "the anointed" which to the JW teachings is the 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes listed in Revelations.
Interesting if thats true I never heard of it.I must not have been paying attention.Typical of me though.I heard the 144,000 thing my whole life and never knew that.
JW's teach only 144,000 will go to heaven and rule with Christ Jesus.They are the only ones allowed to partake of the bread and the wine.I was told that they just know their annointed.They read the bible as if were a private letter written just to them.They have no "earthly hope".They also taught the the remnant of these chosen ones will live to see the "great tribulation" where the JW's would be persacuted and killed for having the "truth".Then go to heaven.They were suposed to be people who were alive in 1914.They used to teach that the world would pass away before the remnante of this generation all dies.
However they have now changed the meaning of generation to a figurative one.They no longer teach the 1914 generation will still be around at the "great tribulation".They changed this doctrain in 1995.The numbers of the "annointed" were dwindling and the WTS had to cover there butts.
If I recall correctly the biggest difference between The Jehovah Witnesses and The Way is in regards to the gifts of the spirit. If you don't want them at the door and don't want to get naked as suggested in another post ( though that sounds alot more fun) tell them you speak in tongues.
This would make you local JW's very affraid of you.They would think your demonized and would avoid you and your house at all costs.JW's are very affraid of things and people being demonized.They blame all kinds of trouble on the demons.Like a flat tire.Anyone else would just concider it bad luck but not JW's it's Satan and the demons stopping you from preaching.
They think books and objects can be demonized.I personaly never had a demon experiance but you here storys all the time.Like smurfs were demons and we were not allowed to have them.There are storys of smurf toys comming alive and chaseing good JW children.Or smurfs from wall paper scratching kids at night.
But telling them you speak in tounges is a good way to get on the do not call list.
Only the 144,000 can eat the bread and drink the wine at their annual communion.
I attended a memorial service at the local Kingdom Hall, several years ago.
I was astonished/ amazed/ flabbergasted/ (insert your own adjective here), when they passed the plate, and then the cup.
Not one person took a piece of bread, not one person took a sip of wine.
The bread and the cup were passed on to the next person like a hot potato.
Me -- (in my *ignorance*) damn near picked up a piece of bread to munch on,
but the lady I was with (a dis-fellowshipped JW) gave me a hard jab in my ribs, with her elbow!! :D
OK!!! ---Message received!!
That was the strangest communion service I have ever been to.
I've had Baptist *missionaries* here at the front door too. They ask if I know where I'm headed (above, or below) when I die. I told them sure -- I have no problem. I speak in tongues -- I know I'm headed for Paradise. They leave quicker, than they anticipated. ;)
I attended a memorial service at the local Kingdom Hall, several years ago.
I was astonished/ amazed/ flabbergasted/ (insert your own adjective here), when they passed the plate, and then the cup.
Not one person took a piece of bread, not one person took a sip of wine.
The bread and the cup were passed on to the next person like a hot potato.
Me -- (in my *ignorance*) damn near picked up a piece of bread to munch on,
but the lady I was with (a dis-fellowshipped JW) gave me a hard jab in my ribs, with her elbow!! :D
OK!!! ---Message received!!
That was the strangest communion service I have ever been to.
I've had Baptist *missionaries* here at the front door too. They ask if I know where I'm headed (above, or below) when I die. I told them sure -- I have no problem. I speak in tongues -- I know I'm headed for Paradise. They leave quicker, than they anticipated. ;)
Did you notice how quite it was while the bread and the wine were being passed?Kind of an erie silence no one moves or speaks at all.I went to this years memorial and I had for gotten about that.
I've never partaken of any communion service.I've never been to another church.One day I'll have to go just to see the diffrance.
"Yes! the big Big BIG difference between JW's and TWI is SONSHIP RIGHTS. The very heart of the revelation given to Paul the Apostle is only to the 144,000 from the book of Revelations.
Only the 144,000 can eat the bread and drink the wine at their annual communion. Manifestations of the Spirit? Fruit of the Spirit? Walking by the Spirit? Dying-and-Rising with Christ? Body-of-Christ? As far as I could tell, the very best of the very best from the Church Epistles is only describing "the anointed" which to the JW teachings is the 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes listed in Revelations."
Noni:
"Interesting if thats true I never heard of it.I must not have been paying attention.Typical of me though.I heard the 144,000 thing my whole life and never knew that."
Revelation 7:1-8, New American Standard.
" 1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.
2And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea,
3saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."
4And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
6from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
7from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
8from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed."
12 tribes (all named) multiplied by 12000 sealed from each equals 144,000.
It's the ONLY mention of 144,000 in the Bible as a number of any kind.
I spent many hours reading their materials (Ugh!) trying to pin down their theology. I recommend getting ahold of their 2-Volume Bible Dictionary. I married a JW and our worst fights have been over religion. Honestly, the more I figured out the more it blew me away!. If you love the Church Epistles you will never ever belong in a JW group. Unless you want to be one of their "Anointed." And that to me is really offensive. Talk about being talked out of your sonship rights, Christ in YOU? Seated in the Heavenlies? Joint-heirs with Christ? Forget it. That ain't you, that's only the 144.000. And YOU know who you are. I can't decide what is worse: That teaching, or if that that teaching is the truth?
"Yes! the big Big BIG difference between JW's and TWI is SONSHIP RIGHTS. The very heart of the revelation given to Paul the Apostle is only to the 144,000 from the book of Revelations.
Only the 144,000 can eat the bread and drink the wine at their annual communion. Manifestations of the Spirit? Fruit of the Spirit? Walking by the Spirit? Dying-and-Rising with Christ? Body-of-Christ? As far as I could tell, the very best of the very best from the Church Epistles is only describing "the anointed" which to the JW teachings is the 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes listed in Revelations."
Noni:
"Interesting if thats true I never heard of it.I must not have been paying attention.Typical of me though.I heard the 144,000 thing my whole life and never knew that."
Revelation 7:1-8, New American Standard.
" 1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.
2And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea,
3saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."
4And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
6from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
7from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
8from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed."
12 tribes (all named) multiplied by 12000 sealed from each equals 144,000.
It's the ONLY mention of 144,000 in the Bible as a number of any kind.
Thanks like I said I never reall paid much attention.I spemt most of the time at the meetings watching the clock.Now that you put the scriptures up on the screen for me I actually read them.
Twenty some odd years ago when I was in Houston working for a large company. Periodicly we would have company pot luck lunchs. At one of those I blessed the food. The wearhouse manager (A JW) said that I must be a believer because of how I prayed.
I think it was the fact that I prayed to God rather then Jesus.
He was like a best friend after that. He was always watching my back. Carrier Houston Company was a place where you got stabbed in the back all the time.
When I was a wow in Idaho in a Mormon College town of Rexburg, I always knew they were a Cult and JW a Cult but ....never could see The Way being a Cult
but that was only my second year in....everytime I would sneak into a Christian bookstore I would go search the Cults section and just could not believe when I saw
pamphlets on The Way International.
The more I went to the Christian bookstore the more I loved it,like a kid in a candy store. I began to open up to other views outside Way Bull Crap)er aka doctrine(?)
It's actually pretty revealing to look at similarities between the Watchtower Society and TWI's leadership. They both rule with a totalitarian hand, and try to present a dumbed-down positive Pollyanna type image to the public.
How people do love to mess around with others' heads.
If we remembered it was: "Love God, love your fellow man" and forgot about meaningless rituals, we'd all be a lot happier.
Good point. And it seems that the way international cloaks it's rituals by saying they have no rituals. Yet they are loaded with them. I think both of these groups (TWI / JW) engender a very rote, ritualistic lifestyle in their adherents.
All of this is coming up for me because I have made a friend who is J/W. I feel like I am hanging around with a mirror of my old way brained self. Oh, and there is no reasoning when it comes to Jehovah's Witness doctrine. To my friend it is above question and they are the true religion.
I really enjoyed studying many things of historical theology and a few really good theologian writers. This enabled me to put our whole mess into perspective. Nothing new under the sun. But if you really want to rate one or two of the 22,000+ denominations of Christiandom...consider that the JW's are in fact more successful than TWI.
Nothing new under the sun. But if you really want to rate one or two of the 22,000+ denominations of Christiandom...consider that the JW's are in fact more successful than TWI.
nope, SSDC (same $41t different cult) Personally, I have no axe to grind with JW. I have just been shocked to see how similar TWI is to them in some respects. My conclusion at this point is that Wierwille at least ripped off some of their doctrine. Perhaps more. However, after being in the way international for many years and then having a good friend endeavor to convert me to JW I have the overwhelming desire to run like hell when I hear what they have to say.
In a perfect world we would all be well paid for our religious affiliation. We'd be able to decide in a competitive market. Want a big church? Spend big money. I'll show for the right dough. Buy me!
It only makes sense. When I, socks, rule the world, all religions that want to be formally authenticated to receive donations will be required to get licensed for that.
Seriously though, they will.
I may be the only person in the ex-Wayfer world who thinks this way buuuuuuuuuuuut I don't see any great difference between what the Way did (and still does in a different format) and what any number of hundreds, dare I say 1000's of other churches, and businesses do. Or cults and scams if you prefer that language.
There are going to be many similarities, comparisons, metaphors, "this is a lot like that" examples and comparisons drawn because it's not nearly as unusual or singular as it's made out to be.
Unfortunately what gets lost in many of the comparisons is any recognition that "your mileage may vary" in a rush to declare All-Things-Wayfer-Must-Sux.
Oh, we say it varies yes but still struggle to grasp the possiblity that one person may have been badly treated or just stupid in how they made choices and another person .... well, not so much of that and as a result didn't have the same terrible experience.
Humans have been doing it since the first men and women decided they liked the other side of the cave instead of the one they were in and yelled "look! Over there! Run!" and took up residence as soon as the premises vacated. F Fwd to today - is it any suprise that Christianity's messages get used as a means to manipulate others?
Or that it's so popular to be manipulated like that?
It's what people do, even in the best of worlds and societies. Anyone who doesn't think they're being manipulated on some level probably also thinks they're "free" too.
Unfortunately what gets lost in many of the comparisons is any recognition that "your mileage may vary" in a rush to declare All-Things-Wayfer-Must-Sux.
Perhaps. But I think what doesn't get lost in the comparison is "too-much-Wayfer-like-must-Sux".
It's like.. perhaps one has an isolated, non-mainstream dogma one adheres to..
fine. Doesn't bother me at all..
but then one adds a controlling oversight for the "standard" (whatever or whoever that is) follower..
and it starts smelling a little bit like a cod left on the dock a little too long..
then ultimatums from the pulpit, how devilish holders of different opinions have become..
kind of like..
the very last offshoot meeting I attended.
No kidding. The "main teaching".. it was during an election year.
"Now these liberals are so... spiritually compromised.. *they* are not like *us*.. who know da *truth*..
You'd think they'd just scooped up the flounder, or whatever indistinguishable sea creature it was and properly disposed of it.. but in the good old USA.. NOOOOOOOOOOOO..
it went further.
"they are at the least influenced by da prince of darkness.. maybe even infested with debil spirits.. they might not turn homo today, or tomorrow.. but..."
the most "unsettling" thing here.. a half dozen of supposed educated people sat, heads bobbing in affirmation..
I was one of them. I left the room while not turning my back.. my head bobbing as well.. and never went back..
but with the JW's.. wasn't there an evolution as to who was "the best"?
I mean.. you start with da 144000.. faithful followers, sons of the sons of Israel..
and what happens when you have more followers than slots to fill?
well.. mathematically there is something called the pigeonhole principle.. you have more slots than selections.. then some selections won't have slots to fill..
what do you do with the ones that don't "fit"?
well.. maybe one has to dream up different slots for them to occupy..
can't all be clergy.. maybe some can be staff.. or Branch coordinators.. or just go through three grueling years to have the coveted "twig coordinator" position..
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socks
In a perfect world we would all be well paid for our religious affiliation. We'd be able to decide in a competitive market. Want a big church? Spend big money. I'll show for the right dough. Buy me!
Ham
Heh.. it was the only character with the badge of mathematical excellence.. that made his way out of that existence.. I can't say it is (or were) me.. because I am still here..
Ham
For the "believers education".. I would recommend.. Norah Jones. Come away with me. then.. feels like home.. I would rate these as highly as Beatles.. Rubber Soul, Revolver.. Magical Mystery Tou
Carl Smuda
Yes! the big Big BIG difference between JW's and TWI is SONSHIP RIGHTS. The very heart of the revelation given to Paul the Apostle is only to the 144,000 from the book of Revelations.
Only the 144,000 can eat the bread and drink the wine at their annual communion. Manifestations of the Spirit? Fruit of the Spirit? Walking by the Spirit? Dying-and-Rising with Christ? Body-of-Christ? As far as I could tell, the very best of the very best from the Church Epistles is only describing "the anointed" which to the JW teachings is the 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes listed in Revelations.
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Noni1974
Interesting if thats true I never heard of it.I must not have been paying attention.Typical of me though.I heard the 144,000 thing my whole life and never knew that.
JW's teach only 144,000 will go to heaven and rule with Christ Jesus.They are the only ones allowed to partake of the bread and the wine.I was told that they just know their annointed.They read the bible as if were a private letter written just to them.They have no "earthly hope".They also taught the the remnant of these chosen ones will live to see the "great tribulation" where the JW's would be persacuted and killed for having the "truth".Then go to heaven.They were suposed to be people who were alive in 1914.They used to teach that the world would pass away before the remnante of this generation all dies.
However they have now changed the meaning of generation to a figurative one.They no longer teach the 1914 generation will still be around at the "great tribulation".They changed this doctrain in 1995.The numbers of the "annointed" were dwindling and the WTS had to cover there butts.
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Noni1974
This would make you local JW's very affraid of you.They would think your demonized and would avoid you and your house at all costs.JW's are very affraid of things and people being demonized.They blame all kinds of trouble on the demons.Like a flat tire.Anyone else would just concider it bad luck but not JW's it's Satan and the demons stopping you from preaching.
They think books and objects can be demonized.I personaly never had a demon experiance but you here storys all the time.Like smurfs were demons and we were not allowed to have them.There are storys of smurf toys comming alive and chaseing good JW children.Or smurfs from wall paper scratching kids at night.
But telling them you speak in tounges is a good way to get on the do not call list.
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dmiller
I attended a memorial service at the local Kingdom Hall, several years ago.
I was astonished/ amazed/ flabbergasted/ (insert your own adjective here), when they passed the plate, and then the cup.
Not one person took a piece of bread, not one person took a sip of wine.
The bread and the cup were passed on to the next person like a hot potato.
Me -- (in my *ignorance*) damn near picked up a piece of bread to munch on,
but the lady I was with (a dis-fellowshipped JW) gave me a hard jab in my ribs, with her elbow!! :D
OK!!! ---Message received!!
That was the strangest communion service I have ever been to.
I've had Baptist *missionaries* here at the front door too. They ask if I know where I'm headed (above, or below) when I die. I told them sure -- I have no problem. I speak in tongues -- I know I'm headed for Paradise. They leave quicker, than they anticipated. ;)
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Noni1974
Did you notice how quite it was while the bread and the wine were being passed?Kind of an erie silence no one moves or speaks at all.I went to this years memorial and I had for gotten about that.
I've never partaken of any communion service.I've never been to another church.One day I'll have to go just to see the diffrance.
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WordWolf
Carl Smuda:
"Yes! the big Big BIG difference between JW's and TWI is SONSHIP RIGHTS. The very heart of the revelation given to Paul the Apostle is only to the 144,000 from the book of Revelations.
Only the 144,000 can eat the bread and drink the wine at their annual communion. Manifestations of the Spirit? Fruit of the Spirit? Walking by the Spirit? Dying-and-Rising with Christ? Body-of-Christ? As far as I could tell, the very best of the very best from the Church Epistles is only describing "the anointed" which to the JW teachings is the 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes listed in Revelations."
Noni:
"Interesting if thats true I never heard of it.I must not have been paying attention.Typical of me though.I heard the 144,000 thing my whole life and never knew that."
Revelation 7:1-8, New American Standard.
" 1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.
2And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea,
3saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."
4And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
6from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
7from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
8from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed."
12 tribes (all named) multiplied by 12000 sealed from each equals 144,000.
It's the ONLY mention of 144,000 in the Bible as a number of any kind.
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Carl Smuda
I spent many hours reading their materials (Ugh!) trying to pin down their theology. I recommend getting ahold of their 2-Volume Bible Dictionary. I married a JW and our worst fights have been over religion. Honestly, the more I figured out the more it blew me away!. If you love the Church Epistles you will never ever belong in a JW group. Unless you want to be one of their "Anointed." And that to me is really offensive. Talk about being talked out of your sonship rights, Christ in YOU? Seated in the Heavenlies? Joint-heirs with Christ? Forget it. That ain't you, that's only the 144.000. And YOU know who you are. I can't decide what is worse: That teaching, or if that that teaching is the truth?
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Noni1974
Thanks like I said I never reall paid much attention.I spemt most of the time at the meetings watching the clock.Now that you put the scriptures up on the screen for me I actually read them.
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ex70sHouston
Twenty some odd years ago when I was in Houston working for a large company. Periodicly we would have company pot luck lunchs. At one of those I blessed the food. The wearhouse manager (A JW) said that I must be a believer because of how I prayed.
I think it was the fact that I prayed to God rather then Jesus.
He was like a best friend after that. He was always watching my back. Carrier Houston Company was a place where you got stabbed in the back all the time.
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OldSkool
Bump.
Witnesses from Wikipedia
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cheranne
When I was a wow in Idaho in a Mormon College town of Rexburg, I always knew they were a Cult and JW a Cult but ....never could see The Way being a Cult
but that was only my second year in....everytime I would sneak into a Christian bookstore I would go search the Cults section and just could not believe when I saw
pamphlets on The Way International.
The more I went to the Christian bookstore the more I loved it,like a kid in a candy store. I began to open up to other views outside Way Bull Crap)er aka doctrine(?)
Very Mirror like these Cults.
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chockfull
It's actually pretty revealing to look at similarities between the Watchtower Society and TWI's leadership. They both rule with a totalitarian hand, and try to present a dumbed-down positive Pollyanna type image to the public.
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OldSkool
Also, it seems at a cursory glance the perhaps Wierwille ripped off some doctrine from them as well.
Jesus not being God (Witnesses say he was Michael in the OT appearing as the son of man, still similar though)
Dead being unconscience until resurrected
Followers of each of these organizations are taught they are to be a separate people
Both groups feel they are the worlds true religion
etc..
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Twinky
Good bump, OldSkool.
Scary how Noni's recollections mirror a lot of TWI recollections.
How people do love to mess around with others' heads.
If we remembered it was: "Love God, love your fellow man" and forgot about meaningless rituals, we'd all be a lot happier.
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OldSkool
Thanks!
Good point. And it seems that the way international cloaks it's rituals by saying they have no rituals. Yet they are loaded with them. I think both of these groups (TWI / JW) engender a very rote, ritualistic lifestyle in their adherents.
All of this is coming up for me because I have made a friend who is J/W. I feel like I am hanging around with a mirror of my old way brained self. Oh, and there is no reasoning when it comes to Jehovah's Witness doctrine. To my friend it is above question and they are the true religion.
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Twinky
Oops, OldSkool. You've been there, done that, got the scars.
Try (some easy task like that (LOL)) and get your friend to read the Bible more widely.
At least you have a shot at understanding her mindset. And know walking away isn't the end of the world.
(Walks away shaking her head sadly and laughing under her breath)
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cheranne
Fist Bump! OldSkool!
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Carl Smuda
I really enjoyed studying many things of historical theology and a few really good theologian writers. This enabled me to put our whole mess into perspective. Nothing new under the sun. But if you really want to rate one or two of the 22,000+ denominations of Christiandom...consider that the JW's are in fact more successful than TWI.
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OldSkool
nope, SSDC (same $41t different cult) Personally, I have no axe to grind with JW. I have just been shocked to see how similar TWI is to them in some respects. My conclusion at this point is that Wierwille at least ripped off some of their doctrine. Perhaps more. However, after being in the way international for many years and then having a good friend endeavor to convert me to JW I have the overwhelming desire to run like hell when I hear what they have to say.
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socks
In a perfect world we would all be well paid for our religious affiliation. We'd be able to decide in a competitive market. Want a big church? Spend big money. I'll show for the right dough. Buy me!
It only makes sense. When I, socks, rule the world, all religions that want to be formally authenticated to receive donations will be required to get licensed for that.
Seriously though, they will.
I may be the only person in the ex-Wayfer world who thinks this way buuuuuuuuuuuut I don't see any great difference between what the Way did (and still does in a different format) and what any number of hundreds, dare I say 1000's of other churches, and businesses do. Or cults and scams if you prefer that language.
There are going to be many similarities, comparisons, metaphors, "this is a lot like that" examples and comparisons drawn because it's not nearly as unusual or singular as it's made out to be.
Unfortunately what gets lost in many of the comparisons is any recognition that "your mileage may vary" in a rush to declare All-Things-Wayfer-Must-Sux.
Oh, we say it varies yes but still struggle to grasp the possiblity that one person may have been badly treated or just stupid in how they made choices and another person .... well, not so much of that and as a result didn't have the same terrible experience.
Humans have been doing it since the first men and women decided they liked the other side of the cave instead of the one they were in and yelled "look! Over there! Run!" and took up residence as soon as the premises vacated. F Fwd to today - is it any suprise that Christianity's messages get used as a means to manipulate others?
Or that it's so popular to be manipulated like that?
It's what people do, even in the best of worlds and societies. Anyone who doesn't think they're being manipulated on some level probably also thinks they're "free" too.
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Ham
Perhaps. But I think what doesn't get lost in the comparison is "too-much-Wayfer-like-must-Sux".
It's like.. perhaps one has an isolated, non-mainstream dogma one adheres to..
fine. Doesn't bother me at all..
but then one adds a controlling oversight for the "standard" (whatever or whoever that is) follower..
and it starts smelling a little bit like a cod left on the dock a little too long..
then ultimatums from the pulpit, how devilish holders of different opinions have become..
kind of like..
the very last offshoot meeting I attended.
No kidding. The "main teaching".. it was during an election year.
"Now these liberals are so... spiritually compromised.. *they* are not like *us*.. who know da *truth*..
You'd think they'd just scooped up the flounder, or whatever indistinguishable sea creature it was and properly disposed of it.. but in the good old USA.. NOOOOOOOOOOOO..
it went further.
"they are at the least influenced by da prince of darkness.. maybe even infested with debil spirits.. they might not turn homo today, or tomorrow.. but..."
the most "unsettling" thing here.. a half dozen of supposed educated people sat, heads bobbing in affirmation..
I was one of them. I left the room while not turning my back.. my head bobbing as well.. and never went back..
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Ham
It was kind of "cool"..
I was da Squirrel incognito..
rescued from da den of lions..
I have much more to say, but all that is just the result of a vivid imagination..
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waysider
There are differences. There are similarities. One thing I now for sure, though. We were "The Best!". (VP said so.)
(You know he wasn't really a "Dr.", don't you?)
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Ham
but with the JW's.. wasn't there an evolution as to who was "the best"?
I mean.. you start with da 144000.. faithful followers, sons of the sons of Israel..
and what happens when you have more followers than slots to fill?
well.. mathematically there is something called the pigeonhole principle.. you have more slots than selections.. then some selections won't have slots to fill..
what do you do with the ones that don't "fit"?
well.. maybe one has to dream up different slots for them to occupy..
can't all be clergy.. maybe some can be staff.. or Branch coordinators.. or just go through three grueling years to have the coveted "twig coordinator" position..
sounds like the same thing to me..
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