How close were we to Jehovah's Witnesses?

[socks]

Bear with me, I'm trying to break these up into smaller posts so I can get my post count up a little. Basically what you described is a very typical pattern ham.

It's like.. perhaps one has an isolated, non-mainstream dogma one adheres to..

fine. Doesn't bother me at all..

What's isolated? What's non-mainstream? And who gives a hoot - other than the mainstream group, the "collective" of regimented opinion? The simple fact that we evaluate another's dogma as being acceptable while being isolated and out of the mainstream says something. Not sure what, I'm thinking though.

but then one adds a controlling oversight for the "standard" (whatever or whoever that is) follower..

This is normal behavior for nearly all societies in which there are laws. Who gives the control? Who added it and who accepted it? And why?

and it starts smelling a little bit like a cod left on the dock a little too long..

then ultimatums from the pulpit, how devilish holders of different opinions have become. .

I was Roman Catholic, raised and braised in the doctrine. I am now, in fact, hell bound as an RC. I am unable to receive any of the sacraments - well, first I'd have to find a church that had a priest and that was having services and then I'd have to go and if I did and just didn't tell anyone, I could receive the sacraments of the Holy Communion and particpate. In other words, lie. But the "sin" would fall to me and only get me further down the toilet.

There are true blue practicing RC's who won't even talk to me like a reasonable human being because I've left the True Universal Mother Church. I'm dammed unfortunately so why bother?

I was once........

Well, the list goes on. I've been a lot of things, and for many of those groups and affiliations, both religious and otherwise, my lack of continued membership, support and attendance is a dammed sorry state of affairs, boy howdy -

Being a "Wayfer" didn't suck for me, most of the time. Well, till it did and then I stayed for years and let them beat me over the head..with and then I....and it was all....

Oh. Wait. That's not what happened.

Never mind.....

I'm not trying to be mean, just a healthy reminder that there are a 1,000 stories in the Big City....and these are some of them.

[Ham]

and I am (or wasn't) trying to be mean or beat you, Mr. Socks over the head with anything here..

as far as "mainstream" or lack thereof.. I cannot include one's beliefs with my choice of friends. Now there has to be some reasonable assumptions. 1. You are not willing to burn, stab, shoot or otherwise assault me on account of my beliefs..

and most of the time that seems to be asking far too much of a lot of people..

I can't make friendships or connections based on belief. Past failures convince me of that..

Who gives the control? Well.. in the USA it's supposed to be a fee society and all.. the individual either affirms or disaffirms the control that one party exercises over another.. sometimes with or without consequences..

as far as "controlling oversight".. it was SUPPOSED to just be a bible study.. some group reading a book to try to get a little bit of truth and make some sense out of it..

Edited September 30, 2010 by Ham

[Ham]

at this point..

the "cult" label seems freely thrown here at times..

I think they ALL are cults. every last stinking one of them.. not limited to religious.

I'm in one of the larger intellectual cults at the moment..

maybe the difference is..

it isn't the individual that sets the standard.. its a mathematical proof..

but a "destruction of SELF" is not required..

[Ham]

Wasn't there a native american story.. of the animals.. they could go to some designated cave, take off their skins, and realize they were all the same..

[waysider]

This cult classification thing is, as you noted, Ham, far reaching, even beyond the boundaries of religion. One of the more recent ones that's been growing by leaps and bounds is "the devotees of talk (read: hate) radio and TV". I had a customer try to evangelize me to Beck worship just last week. Most of what he presented was nothing more than parroted fragments of unsubstantiated claims. Kinda reminded me a little bit of myself trying to use 4 crucified to get a signature on the heralded green card. .

[Ham]

Ha! Like the claims.. Obama isn't really American.. he's an Islamic devotee.. he's getting a divorce.. he's.. (this, and that.. ad infinitum..)

and the other side is no better..

seems we all are like the J.W.'s..

and Socks claims of the R.C.'s..

doesn't seem to make much difference how old or young the belief happens to be..

[Ham]

seems.. what the "average" follower does not see.. or the scam would not perpetuate itself..

we are played one against another.. one "class" of society against another.. one religious adherence against another..

now, math, its hard to do this.. but they have their little (polite mostly) internal quarrels at times..

they generally agree on the methods and results..

but division seems to be the situation, one generation after another, and if one believes it, one lifetime after another..

who gains here?

can't be da follower who avoids family, regarding them possessed of da enemy..

I dunno..

I've had to deal with this.. in ways I wish I didn't..

I've had to tell some who I love.. "your beliefs require you to think I am possessed. Now what are you going to do.."

yeah.. I've been in those shoes before..

[OldSkool]

I dunno - mainstream vs, fringe, JW vs. RC, acceptable vs. unacceptable...one man's floor is another man's ceiling....

I was raised Southern Baptist and bolted when I was a teenager. Then in my early 20s I was witnessed to by what (I believed to be) an adherent of the true religion - the way international - complete with Martindale yelling and condemning everyone from here to Timbuktu. Now I have left the supposed "true religion" and have been witnessed to rather vigorously by an adherent of one of the other "true religions!" So, I am somewhat taken aback seeing a mirror of my former self come at me like I went at so many others. Karma? Perhaps. Otherwise, there is nothing earth shattering here. Just personal observations / experiences I thought I would share to see what fell out of the tree. Maybe some of you are JW now? If so, I offer the same sentiment to you as my friend who cared enough to endeavor to "save me" from my impending doom. Thanks, but no thanks.

[Ham]

If you ever have the time (or inclination)..

I love the old Doctor Who series..

if you can stand the cheesy special effects..

Full Circle.. the brute confronts itself..

State of Decay.. it's a society that mathematically that can't exist, without some kind of oppressive source..

Warrior's Gate.. I won't say..

Fiction is fiction, isn't it?

:)

I wonder where the authors get this stuff..

[OldSkool]

I wonder where the authors get this stuff..

I wonder if they need authors.

[Ham]

Heh.. it was the only character with the badge of mathematical excellence.. that made his way out of that existence..

I can't say it is (or were) me..

because I am still here..

[OldSkool]

I wonder if they need authors.

I just thought I could land a new gig writing for them since my life seems to be littered with experiences that could be incorporated into the series. At least for an episode or two.

[waysider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZTPsrcfQSE&feature=related

[Ham]

Ha!

hey.. you (and me) can fit in, anywhere..

[Ham]

"There must be some kinda way out of here"

Said a joker to the thief

"There's too much confusion,

I can't get no relief.

Businessmen they, they drink my wine,

Ploughmen dig my earth

No one will level on the line

Nobody of it is worth

Hey!"

"No reason to get excited"

The thief he kindly spoke.

"There are many here among us

Who feel that life is but a joke.

But ah, you and I we've been through that.

And this is not our fate.

So let us not talk falsely now,

The hour's getting late.Hey!"

All along the watchtower,

Princess kept the view

While all the women came and went,

Barefoot servants too.

Outside in the cold distance

A wildcat did growl

Two riders were approaching

And the wind began to howl

Hey!

All along the watchtower.

[OldSkool]

Watchtower is one of the best Hendricks ever did.

[Ham]

:)

you haven't seen anything, yet..

[waysider]

Watchtower is one of the best Hendricks ever did.

Yeah. Much better than Dylan, himself.

All along the watchtower

Princes kept the view

While all the women came and went

Barefoot servants, too

[Ham]

No disrespect intended..

:)

[waysider]

Disrespect has to be totally intended to carry any significant weight.

[Ham]

Wait till you look at Norah Jones..

"it" calls.. it will come..

[OldSkool]

Yeah. Much better than Dylan, himself.

All along the watchtower

Princes kept the view

While all the women came and went

Barefoot servants, too

Egads, I had no idea Dylan wrote that. After a little googling I have to agree that Hendricks did way better than Dylan. It doesn't hardly sound like the same song.

Disrespect has to be totally intended to carry any significant weight.

What he said.

Wait till you look at Norah Jones..

"it" calls.. it will come..

If we build it they will come....uhhhh.....

[Ham]

For the "believers education"..

I would recommend.. Norah Jones. Come away with me.

then.. feels like home..

I would rate these as highly as Beatles.. Rubber Soul, Revolver.. Magical Mystery Tour.. etc, etc..

heh.. a God-Daughter of the Beatles.. what more could one expect..

Edited September 30, 2010 by Ham

[Broken Arrow]

So why do you think groups like the JW's, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, and others, are still around while The Way International has all but disintegrated? I heard, though I haven't checked, that the Mormons in particular are one of the fastest growing religious organization in the world.

[dmiller]

So why do you think groups like the JW's, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, and others, are still around while The Way International has all but disintegrated? I heard, though I haven't checked, that the Mormons in particular are one of the fastest growing religious organization in the world.

That's a good question. Somehow they have achieved "legitimacy", whereas docvic and twi never did.

There's been "scandals" in the JW Org, but the Org has seemed to have weathered them with little detrimental effect.

Granted - - - members were lost as a result, but NOTHING like the exodus of 1986/ 87 from twi.

I don't know anything about the 7th Day folks, and all I know of the Mormons, is from what TempleLady used to post here.

I used to be an active poster on 4 different ex-JW sites. 3 of those 4 are now defunct.

I used to use "All along the Watchtower" embedded in my signature pic there. Not many clicked the pic, so it was "lost" on them.

Depending on the web site, I have different tunes embedded in the "sig line" below.

Yup - - Dylan wrote that tune (All Along The Watchtower). It took Hendrix to raise it to proper "status" in the music world.

I've heard Dylan's singing described as sounding - - - "Like a dog with it's hind leg caught in a barb wire fence".

I haven't heard a statement (about a singer/ songwriter) like that, that I am more fully in agreement with.

Anyway - - - (back to topic), the Mormons (at least) preach and promote family values (among other things),

that are sadly missing in today's society, which probably strikes a chord with a lot of "newbies when "witnessed to".

With docvic/ lcm/ and now rosie - - - it's always been an "us vs. THEM mentality.

I maybe right about this, I might be wrong. But regardless of that - - - I just don't care.

It's good to see twi "swirling down the toilet bowl of life", headed for the sewer where they belong.

(Yes - -- you may quote me on that!)