Skyrider...first off though too little too late.... THANKYOU! :)
I always volunteered to work at each roa...but it was only one shift a day so had no idea what the rest of you guys endured to put on roa.
Yeah, everything flooded in my tent numerous times and was ruined (including my dad`s wonderfull 35 m nikon camera)...sigh
The sickness was really scarey when you were stuck in a stifeling tent too weak to crawl out to get water or food for yourself...The water was contaminated in 81/82 ( think it was) many of us got deathly ill. I think that it is the first time that I ever realised that I could possibly die because there was nobody to check on me or care or help me on to grounds.......I cannot imagine having a sick child in those conditions :(
Walking in 100 degree plus heat in stockings and heels on gravel WAS rediculous....omg that wow parade in 85 where we walked a mile or two in in the humidity guys in three piece suits...girls stifeling in stockings ...each step agony in those heels........nearly finished us all off before we got on the field gasp!
The incredibly dangerous storms in 86 or 87 with lightening crashing down all around us while we cowered in our flattened tents....
Water flooding into the big top in wow training in 79 slowly rising around our ankles as we listened to teachings...wondering what was going to happen with all of the electric power cords that were on the ground as well....
Wowsers....you bring to mind the DANGEROUS SITUATIONS that we endured time and time again. Wasn't it 1985, at corps week, when that major thunderstorm was pooling on the roof of the Big Top? The tent top was sagging more and more.....and one guy had to climb up there and cut a hole to relieve the pressure?? All the while........martindale (or whoever) was trying to teach.
Assinine situations.......everyone was fastened on the turmoil, and martindale was ignoring it. Like.....the word must be taught tonight. Sheeeeesh........sicko arrogance.
And, yeah...........I got extremely dehydrated and sick one year while I was staying in the corps tents. Two others around me had the same symptoms. For two days, I was vomiting and got the dry heaves. Did twi have people checking on us?????? NO... NO... NO......no time for that.
The backside of roa..........showed very little care or compassion for the way corps. Here, we were the major portion of the labor force.....and, unlike the hq staff worker who was still collecting a paycheck during these two weeks.....THE FIELD CORPS GAVE 16 DAYS TO TRAVEL TO OHIO, INCUR ALL THESE EXPENSES, AND DO GRUELLING WORK FOR FREE.
Another point.........roa evolved into little more that a money-making/ promotional venture for twi. Heck, after 1977......I don't recall any healing services at roa. No demonstration of God's power on display..... just mouthing of scriptures and cliches. And later still, twi implemented mandatory twigs at 11 am every day with your current assignment or state.......to control the flow of information and full fellowship.
Those of us who saw the backside of roa (physically and spiritually)......have replaced those warm, fuzzy feelings with weeks of august tranquil relaxation.
After a few ROA's beginning in '74 I began got sick of it. In 1975 we should have all been given a refund. It was no more than a big muddy mess.
IMO ROA should have been handled like other large conventions with hotels and convention staff to do the dirty work. There should have been no tent city or muddy parking in cornfields, etc. We began staying in a hotel room year after year (if you were lucky enough to find one.) In that part of Ohio at that time they were all pretty lousy.
When we were "strongly encouraged" to go to BOTH Corps week (nicknamed Score Week) and ROA it was too much. We rarley went to both, just a week in the middle of both. VPW was furious at those of us who did that. Then they had the nerve to ask us to take off work and come to Ohio and work for two weeks! I never agreed with that. I rarely worked. I was one of the ones who protested the very idea and simply did not show up for my assigned work duty.
Word in Business was more my style. Even then we had to work because we were Corps. Sheesh!
I think ROA was more fun for non Corps. We were of "all men most pitied."
I look back now and realize the time should have been spent with my real family, the ones they called "Earthly" as in that verse in James 3 about things "Earthly sensual and devilish." If anything I would say ROA was pretty earthly. Ha!
After a few ROA's beginning in '74 I began got sick of it. In 1975 we should have all been given a refund. It was no more than a big muddy mess.
IMO ROA should have been handled like other large conventions with hotels and convention staff to do the dirty work. There should have been no tent city or muddy parking in cornfields, etc. We began staying in a hotel room year after year (if you were lucky enough to find one.) In that part of Ohio at that time they were all pretty lousy.
When we were "strongly encouraged" to go to BOTH Corps week (nicknamed Score Week) and ROA it was too much. We rarley went to both, just a week in the middle of both. VPW was furious at those of us who did that. Then they had the nerve to ask us to take off work and come to Ohio and work for two weeks! I never agreed with that. I rarely worked. I was one of the ones who protested the very idea and simply did not show up for my assigned work duty.
igotout..........you rebel you.
Too much is right. Heck, corps week evolved into little more than WORK WEEK for us peon corps.....and gave certain mogs time to check out their kingdom.
Besides working to put on the finishing touches of roa.....and way prod rehearsals..... and get the food production up and running.....corps week became another in-house workload. Lots of work to do because 3,000 people gathered in one place generate their own set of maintenance.
Why didn't HQ STAFF do the dirty work.....the trash compactor work, the honey wagon, the porto-potties, the food warehousing/transporting/prep work???? Heck no!!! The office boys and girls wouldn't soil their hands and break a sweat. And, the grounds staff had grass to mow. And, housekeeping personnel still had offices to clean and trustee homes to upkeep.
The field corps did the dirty work.......being at the bottom of the command chain, ye know. We were the ones who did the disgusting work detail.......for frickking free...!!!
And, to me.....the bottom line was NOT money. It was thankfulness and appreciation for "the corps household" working together. But no........when did wierwille ever give a heart-felt THANK YOU to the multitude of worker bees?? Heck, he expected us to jump......without hesitation, without question. Martindale picked up on this same abuse....where wierwille left off.
And yeah....I would fully agree that ROA was alot more fun for the non-corps. Some of them came in mid-week.....stayed 3 or 4 days....and left whenever.
I looked forward to ROA and Score Week every year. As a teen I knew I'd be unsupervised and surrounded by my friends and girls in our own tent area. I knew I'd be drinking a lot and skipping every meeting and work assignment that i could.
We were out of control. No parenting and all.
But the one thing I remember being really bad was Bless Patrol. Bless Patrol just got more and more like police. Not a whole lot of blessing happening there.
One year at the end of corps week, a lot of corps teens were drunk. We were worse than non corps, go figure. In fact the worst kids were the kids of top leadership. Howard's kids used to scare me
Bless patrols big idea to stop it was to go into all of our tents. When i got word this was going on, all of our clothes and luggage, we're talking about at least 50 kids, was in one big pile and they were looking thru it- underwear and all. They found nothing. We then had to sort through that mess and hope to find most of our stuff.
Why did they find nothing? Because we were drinking TWI's beer and wine. At the end of corps week TWI would have a big pizza and beer party and everyone (well not EVERYONE) would get smashed. There was no supervision, there was just tables full of beer and we would just walk up and help ourselves. 15 year olds walking away with kegs. it was rediculous.
These Bless Patrol were litterally shining flashlights in our eyes asking where the booze was. I was a smart a$$ so when they got to me I said "Craig Martindale's Basement." HAHA
After that, we were subject to random tent checks. They'd wake us up at 6 AM, go thru our stuff and interrogate us.
Other things I wasnt crazy about was the stinky hard water, showering in groups and working 12 hour shifts in the heat.
Ditto to the workload killing the fun!! And yes, many HQ staff regulars got off with little or no added work!
But let me tell ya, the in-rez Corps got slammed!! We got booted from our dorm rooms and shuffled into the corps tents well before corps week, (so they could re-clean the dormatories, which already got cleaned twice a day, for the great and holy leader....) and we could only move into our own tents, etc. at the official beginning of Corps week. (meaning you had to move and reset all your stuff twice... just ridiculous!!)
During the weeks of set-up we shuffled back and forth between our regular work duties and the set-up duties-- pretty much guaranteeing a 10-12 hour work day -- and then during corps week and roa, we pulled regular work shifts plus "floater" duties as assigned. (Like port-o-potty maintenance, and babysitting leaders' kids)
And you know, for most of my time in-rez, I was still happy to do it. (hey, I was young and enthusiastic) Happy to know that I was making the place great for everyone else to enjoy.
Until my last year... what a nightmare. I was asked (expected) to be a part of Way Productions, which was fine, except that meant I had about a dozen songs to learn in about three days. But, they wouldn't allow that to be my "floater" job. Once again, I had potty-detail. And when another corps girl and I split our shifts between us, because we were smart enough to realize that it didn't take two of us to flush and refill the potties each time, we both got our butts chewed off for not following our overseer's direct order of "two-by-two". (oh my god)
After that, I just didn't give a rip anymore. Hated going. Hated being there. Did everything I could to stay in my tent to listen to the teachings. Couldn't wait to leave.
The only thing I enjoyed was working the ice cream tent. Loved serving that ice cold creamy goodness to hot, sticky folks!
Well since you were the first to admit it, I'll follow suit. You teens were not the only ones who had a corner or partying. We always got SMASHED at Corps week and ROA but it was always at our hotel and around the pool at S & W. We came to many a teaching smashed and just hung out in the back or skipped it all. Our first stop when we got to St. Mary's was the local liquor store. I literally had to recuperate from ROA and Corps week when we got home to our normal lives.
So much of TWI was a breeding ground for partying and such. My theory is the more legalism and incorrect doctrine you are placed under the more self medication is needed to "escape" the bonds of religiosity. Why is it soooo many of us drank and smoked and went wild including TOP leadership? To keep our sanity and have some fun along the way, I suppose. That does not mean it was right. It was just a part of the underbelly of TWI. Sex too. I knew a few leaders who were simply alchoholics? Another I knew smoked pot at Emporia regularly.
The party ended with LCM. In some ways he was right in trying to put an end to it all and make TWI more conservative in our behavior. Problem is he forced it on us and he did not walk the walk himself. The party really ended in my opinion when POP was read and the "Division Bell" was rung. Probably a good thing it happened.
PS - One year I remember seeing a couple teen boys at the "cheap beer fest" who were so smashed they could hardly walk. I wonder if one of them was you?? We just laughed. No one said anything. No one did anything. We should have.
good god, i remember telling my potential new employer in the interview i would have to take 2 weeks off without pay in august
what a privilege, take your "vacation" without pay, spend 2 weeks working your azz off, and getting yelled at, that is my definition of heaven
yeah we drank like fools because we were fools ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha plus it's nice to do that when you're with friends and you're in denial about your whole stupid life in a cult
;)
getout, i can't remember the teen boys, i must have been too drunk
I remember the WOW training in 1979 (that was the year i was sent to Wyoming as WOW) and all the water and rain.
TWI having the guys in one area in the BIG top tent and the gals in another section. And when the water still wasn't under controll they moved us over to one of the storage areas that they used for materials and stuff with the landing on the top of the stairs that led down where all of us poor little WOW's were sitting where Dr. VPW used it as a podium.
I also remember going to the training for 3 or 4 hours in the morning taking a break just long enough for us to wolf down 1 or was it 2 WOW burgers and then having to go back for a few more hours in the afternoon for more training.
From what i remember it was pretty much repetitive stuff.
The drinking and pot smoking hasn't really been talked about very much here (except for VPW's boozing, not a lot of pot talk)
But when TWI was hopping in the 70's (at least in my experience in The Bronx) there was a lot of pot smoking, some of it went on after twig!
There was, as has been discussed, a big Jesus element to the hippie movement in the 70's. Seems weird to today's "hippies". Even Bob Dylan went thru a Jesus phase. It was something to try along with Buddha, pot, yoga and anything else that promised to bring "enlightenment".
A lot of that pot smoking made it to TWI in the 80's and not just with "the kids". Since it's a crime (???) I won't name names but there were plenty of "leaders" smoking weed. And the booze was not unique to VPW.
The two drink limit is one of the biggest TWI hoaxes of them all.
And I agree with Igotout:
"My theory is the more legalism and incorrect doctrine you are placed under the more self medication is needed to "escape" the bonds of religiosity."
There's a reason "the preacher's daughter" stereotype exists. Kids rebel, that's a fact. The more taboo you place on them, the more they NEED to find out for themselves. We Junior Corps compensated for the abuse and lies and pain with sex, drugs and rock n roll. We were BAD, worse than your average teen.
ROA was a party to us. And we earned it!
Try being made to go to school where the kids make fun of you all day for being in a cult, witness to a group of uninterested KIDS, participate in extra curricular activities (sports), come home and work on a farm, do your home work, go to twig EVERY NIGHT, be ridiculed (reproved) all day long for every little thing, be beaten by whoever had the closest wooden spoon for any minor offense, take classes (PFAL, Intermediate and CF&X with a perverted teacher, dealing with the adversary and other HEAVY TOPICS), wake up at five to pray and read the bible, work out and repeat schedule.
It was way too much for any kid to have to go through. It's no wonder we drank, smoked and had sex.
ROA was our Mardi Gras. Unsupervised madness. Pure rebellion.
These days, when I tell my friends this stuff they think I'm making it up.
Also at ROA and Score Week there was some mixing of young "adults" with older teens: sex and booze.
For several reasons, the Rock of Ages festival was a mixed bag of blessings and cursings and pawned off as "the greatest gathering this side of heaven" :
Blessings
... 1) Reuniting with my friends every year, although brief.....was a deep joy.
... 2) Some of the early roa teachings were good..........just too long.
... 3) Meeting folks from around the world who loved God.....was fascinating.
... 4) Watching the WOWs come into the main tent....with victory in their eyes.
... 5) Music.....some good music (in the early years).
... 6) Going to the House of His Healing Presence.
... 7) Knowing that I'd see some of my good friends next year at the Rock.
Cursings
... 1) The workload that I mentioned in my posts.
... 2) Wierwille's policy to dress in suit clothes in muddy surroundings.....crazy concept.
... 3) ROA's concepts...."good food, good fun, good fellowship".....were just words.
... 4) Too many teachings.....too much structure......too much policing the area.
... 5) Very little variety.....same ole, same ole.
... 6) Main stage hypocrisy......was very visible to the onlooker.
... 7) Upper leaders followed bot example......not accessible to the people. Prayer? Healings?
So, in hindsight.....I loathe many aspects of roa. If it hadn't been MANDATORY for corps.....I know that I probably would have skipped quite a few of them. And, when they added the corps week aspect.....it was more about CONTROLLING CORPS GRADS than anything.
AH! ------"THE ROCK OF AGES", The greatest gathering together this side of THE gathering together. Was that a catchy promo or what!? Worst memory: After the AC in '73 the ROA was kind of like a graduation of sorts. On the last night VPW announced a service at at the end of his teaching. All AC grads had to come forth and minister healing.I just made stuff up because I figured if GOD wanted me to be apart of someones deliverance, He would have told me himself. I still believe healing is available I just don't think TWI understood what it is or how it works.------Now for agood memory: Barry McCoy performing "happy to be home again where the daystar shines in all your hearts. So happy to be home again"
I looked forward to ROA and Score Week every year. As a teen I knew I'd be unsupervised and surrounded by my friends and girls in our own tent area. I knew I'd be drinking a lot and skipping every meeting and work assignment that i could.
We were out of control. No parenting and all.
But the one thing I remember being really bad was Bless Patrol. Bless Patrol just got more and more like police. Not a whole lot of blessing happening there.
One year at the end of corps week, a lot of corps teens were drunk. We were worse than non corps, go figure. In fact the worst kids were the kids of top leadership. Howard's kids used to scare me
Bless patrols big idea to stop it was to go into all of our tents. When i got word this was going on, all of our clothes and luggage, we're talking about at least 50 kids, was in one big pile and they were looking thru it- underwear and all. They found nothing. We then had to sort through that mess and hope to find most of our stuff.
Why did they find nothing? Because we were drinking TWI's beer and wine. At the end of corps week TWI would have a big pizza and beer party and everyone (well not EVERYONE) would get smashed. There was no supervision, there was just tables full of beer and we would just walk up and help ourselves. 15 year olds walking away with kegs. it was rediculous.
These Bless Patrol were litterally shining flashlights in our eyes asking where the booze was. I was a smart a$$ so when they got to me I said "Craig Martindale's Basement." HAHA
After that, we were subject to random tent checks. They'd wake us up at 6 AM, go thru our stuff and interrogate us.
Other things I wasnt crazy about was the stinky hard water, showering in groups and working 12 hour shifts in the heat.
Yeah...That's why I regret not being 30 years younger than I am...I hear stories of the sex and booze and pot smoking orgires that went on in "tent city" by all of you "wayward" youths...and I become green with envy!!!
I was one of the old fogies ended up observing the 2 drink limit... :(
Ya know, I never attended a ROA, but hearing people talk about it when I was involved and reading about it on WayDale and talking about it over coffee here at the Cafe, I am so glad that I never did go to one. Nevermind the fact that the first year I was really involved was the last year of the ROA.
If I had gone to one, I'm quite sure that I would have been hanging out with the kids and teaching them how to best hide their indescretions. I was a youngster myself being in my early 20's and was as rebellious as Georgio has described, but being a wee bit older, I had figured out what worked and what didn't regarding staying out of trouble.
So, something I've never understood...... What made the WOW burgers that darn good?
Okay, I need to tell the "OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY" here.
I was in residence/interim corps from 82-84, graduated in 85 and went directly from graduation to staff at HQ, and I mean directly. I graduated in Emporia on July 6 and started my job at switchboard on the 13th.
I understand sky's platform here, but there is definitely another side of this story.
I worked at least twelve hour days during corps week/roa, which, if you know anything about that job, it is emotionally demanding and "politically" challenging. I would have to answer the phones, facilitate radio transmission (the first couple of years the two different "channels" could not directly communicate with each other and we used what was called a "cross patch" to put the workers in touch with each other. For at least 3 months a year, my dreams were invaded by people whose voices I listened to 12 hours a day.......Tom Mausolf, Alan Brown, Fred Deats and then of course, the entire safety department. I also want to mention, that as the number of corps dwindled, the staff had to work two 3 hour nite shifts per week on roa set up, right along side of the inresidence corps. We had to show up on the patio, meet Alan Brown and get our work assingments (tent crew, warehouse, grounds, etc) and work till nine pm just like the corps did.
I was working the swb the last day of the roa 85 when ther was a horrible fatal car accident involving out going wows. Calling lcm, and mrs vpw and every freaking body else and telling them we had dead wows was horrible, to say nothing of the fact that I was still dealing with the Highway patrol, police, etc. When I got off my shift...........I went back to my unit on grounds to find out that the surviving wows were staying there with us (I lived with Duke Clarke who was the trunk coordinator.)
Later, I moved off grounds. I had a small apartment that I packed "field corps and friends/and or their friends" into. I had as many as 8 people staying with me every year for cw/roa.........one year, my normally $40 dollar electric bill was almost $500 dollars. NOT ONE PERSON offered me a cent to stay with me, nor helped me pay those bills........I had to have my mom send me money.
For years I coordinated the USA Pavillion, WOW reg and WOW placements room........I left my apartment every morning of cw/roa at 6 am, opened the pavillion, worked my foot off, took a 1 hour nap from 3-4, then back to the pavillion till 12:30 am. I did that year in and year out........and didn't complain, at least not very often :blink: . I loved what I was doing and working 14 or 18 hour days was my only way to contribute to my very personal goal of "Word Over the World." I know now that it was all a mirage, but for me, I totally bought into all that God and Word Over the World stuff.
I really take offense at the idea that all of us were freeloaders, sitting at home watching tv while the field corps were working their asses off.
Sure, the field corps and believers worked their butts off, but so did many of us on staff.
Yep...I appreciate what Radar is saying...so many people worked their butts off. it's a shame that it got so complicated...
The early rocks were a bunch of hippies hanging out in tents and it turned into this complex, "youth for Hitler" mentality. When the mandatory "meeting in your twig at a certain time" thing happened, I knew the whole thing was over.
Yeah...That's why I regret not being 30 years younger than I am...I hear stories of the sex and booze and pot smoking orgires that went on in "tent city" by all of you "wayward" youths...and I become green with envy!!!
I was one of the old fogies ended up observing the 2 drink limit... :(
Damn!...I'll bet you guys had fun!
We had fun. TOO MUCH fun. I would definetly do somethings over, some not. Orgies, while I've heard that said of us before, is a little too strong a word.
And there were plenty of adults doing the same things. It's amazing this went on and we could look in the mirror and call ourselves Christians who understood of the word of God better than anyone.
If there's one thing I miss about TWI it's ROA. Great memories. I sometimes have dreams that it still happens and I decide to go back just for ROA and to see old friends. Thank God I wake up!
The early rocks were a bunch of hippies hanging out in tents and ...
Yeah.....sitting on the grass, a make-shift stage, some rock-n-roll music, a small gathering of hippies who were on an adventure to Ohio to check and see if this was another spark of the Jesus movement / culture.
Wasn't one of those earlier themes....."Addicted to the ministry of the saints" [an adaptation from I Cor/ 16:13] ? Wierwille was a smooth operator.
Yeah, the backside of roa was alot of hard, gruelling work. And, to top it off..........very little thanks. The guys on main stage, the teachers and smooshers basked in the spotlight.
Yup. I did the whole backside thing for two years. I was A/V so I was spared a fair amount of the backbreaking work, but the flip side was long, long hours and total and absolute public condemnation for any mistakes made...
A/V didn't have much work in the first few weeks of prep so we sometimes got "rented out" to Way Builders and that really sucked.
BTW Radar, Tom Mausoff was better known as "Lord Mousoff" to the A/V staff because of his demanding and abrasive interactions with us. We had to occasionally dig a trench across the grounds and, of course, he was the authority on how it was to be done.
IMO ROA should have been handled like other large conventions with hotels and convention staff to do the dirty work. There should have been no tent city or muddy parking in cornfields, etc. We began staying in a hotel room year after year (if you were lucky enough to find one.) In that part of Ohio at that time they were all pretty lousy.
When we were "strongly encouraged" to go to BOTH Corps week (nicknamed Score Week) and ROA it was too much. We rarley went to both, just a week in the middle of both.
VPW was furious at those of us who did that. Then they had the nerve to ask us to take off work and come to Ohio and work for two weeks! I never agreed with that. I rarely worked. I was one of the ones who protested the very idea and simply did not show up for my assigned work duty.
Word in Business was more my style. Even then we had to work because we were Corps. Sheesh!
We talked about this on the "vp and me in wonderland" thread.
Here's what lcm said-in italics
and my commentary-in boldface
"Incident of Way Corps going home after Corps Week but prior to the ROA."
"Corps Week was when the Corps got together,
and was when the Corps did the set-up and assembly of all the physical details
needed for the ROA.
(Setting up Registration, the tents, Family Tables, food stands...)
So, these Corps did setup and met together, then went home.
They worked for free for the week preceding ROA."
"Dr heard about it and reproved everyone in the corps household for the problem, for not helping to put it on."
"Setting up all that stuff doesn't count as "helping to put it on"?
That was a week's free labour!
"Reproved" them?
He should have THANKED them for the free labour!
After all,
there WAS an admission, we DID PAY for setup,
so things COULD have been done with local workers,
providing work for labourers locally.
Of course, that would mean vpw would have to accept
seeing money exit. "
"He reminded everyone of the commitments that they had made regarding a lifetime of Christian
service."
"They served a week of hard labour. What about that?
Further, when did 'a lifetime of Christian service'
become synonymous with
'involuntary servitude for life at the whims of twi'?
I don't remember MANDATORY ROA attendance
being required in the corps signups-did anyone sign such a document?"
"Every corps person needs to plan ahead one year or more so that they can be a part of
these events. They need to be able to be a part of ROA and corps fellowship."
"It occasionally came as a surprise to those people who never actually
WORKED for a living
(vpw went straight from school into pastoring,
lcm went straight from school into the way corps),
but REAL jobs have REQUIREMENTS and RESPONSIBILITIES.
All these people made arrangements for a VACATION WEEK from work
(for some of them, this was their ONLY vacation, or was unpaid leave),
paid to travel to hq on their own from all over the country,
and WORKED for a week, unpaid.
Now you have the nerve to say
'Not good enough-work MORE for free!'
NO!
These people have families to support, jobs to perform, and lives to maintain.
If they leave, it's because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to, simp!
At the very least, you owed them profound thanks.
To insult them after they worked for free
is lacking in character, lacking in integrity,
and lacking in Christian values.
So, to you who said this, I say
'F* you, AND the motorcycle you rode in on!!!!'
Or,
as Andy Kaufman once said,
''You, sir,
are a f*ing @$$h*,
a F*ing @$$h*,
a F*ING @$$H*!!!! '"
=========
I would expand on it now, but really,
I think that once you've said that, you've said it all.
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skyrider
When some post about those warm, fuzzy feelings from the rock of ages.........I've got to admit, I had some of those experiences too. But after about my 4th roa....and being corps....those 6 hr - 12
rascal
Skyrider...first off though too little too late.... THANKYOU! :) I always volunteered to work at each roa...but it was only one shift a day so had no idea what the rest of you guys endured to put o
skyrider
(((rascal))) Awww......another worker bee in our midst. Wowsers....you bring to mind the DANGEROUS SITUATIONS that we endured time and time again. Wasn't it 1985, at corps week, when that major
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rascal
Skyrider...first off though too little too late.... THANKYOU! :)
I always volunteered to work at each roa...but it was only one shift a day so had no idea what the rest of you guys endured to put on roa.
Yeah, everything flooded in my tent numerous times and was ruined (including my dad`s wonderfull 35 m nikon camera)...sigh
The sickness was really scarey when you were stuck in a stifeling tent too weak to crawl out to get water or food for yourself...The water was contaminated in 81/82 ( think it was) many of us got deathly ill. I think that it is the first time that I ever realised that I could possibly die because there was nobody to check on me or care or help me on to grounds.......I cannot imagine having a sick child in those conditions :(
Walking in 100 degree plus heat in stockings and heels on gravel WAS rediculous....omg that wow parade in 85 where we walked a mile or two in in the humidity guys in three piece suits...girls stifeling in stockings ...each step agony in those heels........nearly finished us all off before we got on the field gasp!
The incredibly dangerous storms in 86 or 87 with lightening crashing down all around us while we cowered in our flattened tents....
Water flooding into the big top in wow training in 79 slowly rising around our ankles as we listened to teachings...wondering what was going to happen with all of the electric power cords that were on the ground as well....
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skyrider
(((rascal)))
Awww......another worker bee in our midst.
Wowsers....you bring to mind the DANGEROUS SITUATIONS that we endured time and time again. Wasn't it 1985, at corps week, when that major thunderstorm was pooling on the roof of the Big Top? The tent top was sagging more and more.....and one guy had to climb up there and cut a hole to relieve the pressure?? All the while........martindale (or whoever) was trying to teach.
Assinine situations.......everyone was fastened on the turmoil, and martindale was ignoring it. Like.....the word must be taught tonight. Sheeeeesh........sicko arrogance.
And, yeah...........I got extremely dehydrated and sick one year while I was staying in the corps tents. Two others around me had the same symptoms. For two days, I was vomiting and got the dry heaves. Did twi have people checking on us?????? NO... NO... NO......no time for that.
The backside of roa..........showed very little care or compassion for the way corps. Here, we were the major portion of the labor force.....and, unlike the hq staff worker who was still collecting a paycheck during these two weeks.....THE FIELD CORPS GAVE 16 DAYS TO TRAVEL TO OHIO, INCUR ALL THESE EXPENSES, AND DO GRUELLING WORK FOR FREE.
Another point.........roa evolved into little more that a money-making/ promotional venture for twi. Heck, after 1977......I don't recall any healing services at roa. No demonstration of God's power on display..... just mouthing of scriptures and cliches. And later still, twi implemented mandatory twigs at 11 am every day with your current assignment or state.......to control the flow of information and full fellowship.
Those of us who saw the backside of roa (physically and spiritually)......have replaced those warm, fuzzy feelings with weeks of august tranquil relaxation.
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igotout
After a few ROA's beginning in '74 I began got sick of it. In 1975 we should have all been given a refund. It was no more than a big muddy mess.
IMO ROA should have been handled like other large conventions with hotels and convention staff to do the dirty work. There should have been no tent city or muddy parking in cornfields, etc. We began staying in a hotel room year after year (if you were lucky enough to find one.) In that part of Ohio at that time they were all pretty lousy.
When we were "strongly encouraged" to go to BOTH Corps week (nicknamed Score Week) and ROA it was too much. We rarley went to both, just a week in the middle of both. VPW was furious at those of us who did that. Then they had the nerve to ask us to take off work and come to Ohio and work for two weeks! I never agreed with that. I rarely worked. I was one of the ones who protested the very idea and simply did not show up for my assigned work duty.
Word in Business was more my style. Even then we had to work because we were Corps. Sheesh!
I think ROA was more fun for non Corps. We were of "all men most pitied."
I look back now and realize the time should have been spent with my real family, the ones they called "Earthly" as in that verse in James 3 about things "Earthly sensual and devilish." If anything I would say ROA was pretty earthly. Ha!
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skyrider
igotout..........you rebel you.
Too much is right. Heck, corps week evolved into little more than WORK WEEK for us peon corps.....and gave certain mogs time to check out their kingdom.
Besides working to put on the finishing touches of roa.....and way prod rehearsals..... and get the food production up and running.....corps week became another in-house workload. Lots of work to do because 3,000 people gathered in one place generate their own set of maintenance.
Why didn't HQ STAFF do the dirty work.....the trash compactor work, the honey wagon, the porto-potties, the food warehousing/transporting/prep work???? Heck no!!! The office boys and girls wouldn't soil their hands and break a sweat. And, the grounds staff had grass to mow. And, housekeeping personnel still had offices to clean and trustee homes to upkeep.
The field corps did the dirty work.......being at the bottom of the command chain, ye know. We were the ones who did the disgusting work detail.......for frickking free...!!!
And, to me.....the bottom line was NOT money. It was thankfulness and appreciation for "the corps household" working together. But no........when did wierwille ever give a heart-felt THANK YOU to the multitude of worker bees?? Heck, he expected us to jump......without hesitation, without question. Martindale picked up on this same abuse....where wierwille left off.
And yeah....I would fully agree that ROA was alot more fun for the non-corps. Some of them came in mid-week.....stayed 3 or 4 days....and left whenever.
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Georgio Jessio
I looked forward to ROA and Score Week every year. As a teen I knew I'd be unsupervised and surrounded by my friends and girls in our own tent area. I knew I'd be drinking a lot and skipping every meeting and work assignment that i could.
We were out of control. No parenting and all.
But the one thing I remember being really bad was Bless Patrol. Bless Patrol just got more and more like police. Not a whole lot of blessing happening there.
One year at the end of corps week, a lot of corps teens were drunk. We were worse than non corps, go figure. In fact the worst kids were the kids of top leadership. Howard's kids used to scare me
Bless patrols big idea to stop it was to go into all of our tents. When i got word this was going on, all of our clothes and luggage, we're talking about at least 50 kids, was in one big pile and they were looking thru it- underwear and all. They found nothing. We then had to sort through that mess and hope to find most of our stuff.
Why did they find nothing? Because we were drinking TWI's beer and wine. At the end of corps week TWI would have a big pizza and beer party and everyone (well not EVERYONE) would get smashed. There was no supervision, there was just tables full of beer and we would just walk up and help ourselves. 15 year olds walking away with kegs. it was rediculous.
These Bless Patrol were litterally shining flashlights in our eyes asking where the booze was. I was a smart a$$ so when they got to me I said "Craig Martindale's Basement." HAHA
After that, we were subject to random tent checks. They'd wake us up at 6 AM, go thru our stuff and interrogate us.
Other things I wasnt crazy about was the stinky hard water, showering in groups and working 12 hour shifts in the heat.
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TheHighWay
Ditto to the workload killing the fun!! And yes, many HQ staff regulars got off with little or no added work!
But let me tell ya, the in-rez Corps got slammed!! We got booted from our dorm rooms and shuffled into the corps tents well before corps week, (so they could re-clean the dormatories, which already got cleaned twice a day, for the great and holy leader....) and we could only move into our own tents, etc. at the official beginning of Corps week. (meaning you had to move and reset all your stuff twice... just ridiculous!!)
During the weeks of set-up we shuffled back and forth between our regular work duties and the set-up duties-- pretty much guaranteeing a 10-12 hour work day -- and then during corps week and roa, we pulled regular work shifts plus "floater" duties as assigned. (Like port-o-potty maintenance, and babysitting leaders' kids)
And you know, for most of my time in-rez, I was still happy to do it. (hey, I was young and enthusiastic) Happy to know that I was making the place great for everyone else to enjoy.
Until my last year... what a nightmare. I was asked (expected) to be a part of Way Productions, which was fine, except that meant I had about a dozen songs to learn in about three days. But, they wouldn't allow that to be my "floater" job. Once again, I had potty-detail. And when another corps girl and I split our shifts between us, because we were smart enough to realize that it didn't take two of us to flush and refill the potties each time, we both got our butts chewed off for not following our overseer's direct order of "two-by-two". (oh my god)
After that, I just didn't give a rip anymore. Hated going. Hated being there. Did everything I could to stay in my tent to listen to the teachings. Couldn't wait to leave.
The only thing I enjoyed was working the ice cream tent. Loved serving that ice cold creamy goodness to hot, sticky folks!
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igotout
Georgio,
Well since you were the first to admit it, I'll follow suit. You teens were not the only ones who had a corner or partying. We always got SMASHED at Corps week and ROA but it was always at our hotel and around the pool at S & W. We came to many a teaching smashed and just hung out in the back or skipped it all. Our first stop when we got to St. Mary's was the local liquor store. I literally had to recuperate from ROA and Corps week when we got home to our normal lives.
So much of TWI was a breeding ground for partying and such. My theory is the more legalism and incorrect doctrine you are placed under the more self medication is needed to "escape" the bonds of religiosity. Why is it soooo many of us drank and smoked and went wild including TOP leadership? To keep our sanity and have some fun along the way, I suppose. That does not mean it was right. It was just a part of the underbelly of TWI. Sex too. I knew a few leaders who were simply alchoholics? Another I knew smoked pot at Emporia regularly.
The party ended with LCM. In some ways he was right in trying to put an end to it all and make TWI more conservative in our behavior. Problem is he forced it on us and he did not walk the walk himself. The party really ended in my opinion when POP was read and the "Division Bell" was rung. Probably a good thing it happened.
PS - One year I remember seeing a couple teen boys at the "cheap beer fest" who were so smashed they could hardly walk. I wonder if one of them was you??
We just laughed. No one said anything. No one did anything. We should have.
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likeaneagle
I worked in the WOW Burger tent..
Werent they the best....I usualy cooked, talking about hot....whooppeee.but later advanced to cashier, so if I didnt give you change....sorry!!
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excathedra
good god, i remember telling my potential new employer in the interview i would have to take 2 weeks off without pay in august
what a privilege, take your "vacation" without pay, spend 2 weeks working your azz off, and getting yelled at, that is my definition of heaven
yeah we drank like fools because we were fools ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha plus it's nice to do that when you're with friends and you're in denial about your whole stupid life in a cult
;)
getout, i can't remember the teen boys, i must have been too drunk
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danteh1
Hey Rascal
I remember the WOW training in 1979 (that was the year i was sent to Wyoming as WOW) and all the water and rain.
TWI having the guys in one area in the BIG top tent and the gals in another section. And when the water still wasn't under controll they moved us over to one of the storage areas that they used for materials and stuff with the landing on the top of the stairs that led down where all of us poor little WOW's were sitting where Dr. VPW used it as a podium.
I also remember going to the training for 3 or 4 hours in the morning taking a break just long enough for us to wolf down 1 or was it 2 WOW burgers and then having to go back for a few more hours in the afternoon for more training.
From what i remember it was pretty much repetitive stuff.
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Georgio Jessio
The drinking and pot smoking hasn't really been talked about very much here (except for VPW's boozing, not a lot of pot talk)
But when TWI was hopping in the 70's (at least in my experience in The Bronx) there was a lot of pot smoking, some of it went on after twig!
There was, as has been discussed, a big Jesus element to the hippie movement in the 70's. Seems weird to today's "hippies". Even Bob Dylan went thru a Jesus phase. It was something to try along with Buddha, pot, yoga and anything else that promised to bring "enlightenment".
A lot of that pot smoking made it to TWI in the 80's and not just with "the kids". Since it's a crime (???) I won't name names but there were plenty of "leaders" smoking weed. And the booze was not unique to VPW.
The two drink limit is one of the biggest TWI hoaxes of them all.
And I agree with Igotout:
"My theory is the more legalism and incorrect doctrine you are placed under the more self medication is needed to "escape" the bonds of religiosity."
There's a reason "the preacher's daughter" stereotype exists. Kids rebel, that's a fact. The more taboo you place on them, the more they NEED to find out for themselves. We Junior Corps compensated for the abuse and lies and pain with sex, drugs and rock n roll. We were BAD, worse than your average teen.
ROA was a party to us. And we earned it!
Try being made to go to school where the kids make fun of you all day for being in a cult, witness to a group of uninterested KIDS, participate in extra curricular activities (sports), come home and work on a farm, do your home work, go to twig EVERY NIGHT, be ridiculed (reproved) all day long for every little thing, be beaten by whoever had the closest wooden spoon for any minor offense, take classes (PFAL, Intermediate and CF&X with a perverted teacher, dealing with the adversary and other HEAVY TOPICS), wake up at five to pray and read the bible, work out and repeat schedule.
It was way too much for any kid to have to go through. It's no wonder we drank, smoked and had sex.
ROA was our Mardi Gras. Unsupervised madness. Pure rebellion.
These days, when I tell my friends this stuff they think I'm making it up.
Also at ROA and Score Week there was some mixing of young "adults" with older teens: sex and booze.
It's just amazing.
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skyrider
Well, since "true confessions" are coming out...
For several reasons, the Rock of Ages festival was a mixed bag of blessings and cursings and pawned off as "the greatest gathering this side of heaven" :
Blessings
... 1) Reuniting with my friends every year, although brief.....was a deep joy.
... 2) Some of the early roa teachings were good..........just too long.
... 3) Meeting folks from around the world who loved God.....was fascinating.
... 4) Watching the WOWs come into the main tent....with victory in their eyes.
... 5) Music.....some good music (in the early years).
... 6) Going to the House of His Healing Presence.
... 7) Knowing that I'd see some of my good friends next year at the Rock.
Cursings
... 1) The workload that I mentioned in my posts.
... 2) Wierwille's policy to dress in suit clothes in muddy surroundings.....crazy concept.
... 3) ROA's concepts...."good food, good fun, good fellowship".....were just words.
... 4) Too many teachings.....too much structure......too much policing the area.
... 5) Very little variety.....same ole, same ole.
... 6) Main stage hypocrisy......was very visible to the onlooker.
... 7) Upper leaders followed bot example......not accessible to the people. Prayer? Healings?
So, in hindsight.....I loathe many aspects of roa. If it hadn't been MANDATORY for corps.....I know that I probably would have skipped quite a few of them. And, when they added the corps week aspect.....it was more about CONTROLLING CORPS GRADS than anything.
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waysider
AH! ------"THE ROCK OF AGES", The greatest gathering together this side of THE gathering together. Was that a catchy promo or what!? Worst memory: After the AC in '73 the ROA was kind of like a graduation of sorts. On the last night VPW announced a service at at the end of his teaching. All AC grads had to come forth and minister healing.I just made stuff up because I figured if GOD wanted me to be apart of someones deliverance, He would have told me himself. I still believe healing is available I just don't think TWI understood what it is or how it works.------Now for agood memory: Barry McCoy performing "happy to be home again where the daystar shines in all your hearts. So happy to be home again"
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GrouchoMarxJr
Yeah...That's why I regret not being 30 years younger than I am...I hear stories of the sex and booze and pot smoking orgires that went on in "tent city" by all of you "wayward" youths...and I become green with envy!!!
I was one of the old fogies ended up observing the 2 drink limit... :(
Damn!...I'll bet you guys had fun!
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Belle
Ya know, I never attended a ROA, but hearing people talk about it when I was involved and reading about it on WayDale and talking about it over coffee here at the Cafe, I am so glad that I never did go to one. Nevermind the fact that the first year I was really involved was the last year of the ROA.
If I had gone to one, I'm quite sure that I would have been hanging out with the kids and teaching them how to best hide their indescretions.
I was a youngster myself being in my early 20's and was as rebellious as Georgio has described, but being a wee bit older, I had figured out what worked and what didn't regarding staying out of trouble.
So, something I've never understood...... What made the WOW burgers that darn good?
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skyrider
Two things........1) Being really hungry and 2) Wierwille said they were (good).
Just another "buy in" to wierwille's charisma.
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Radar OReilly
Okay, I need to tell the "OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY" here.
I was in residence/interim corps from 82-84, graduated in 85 and went directly from graduation to staff at HQ, and I mean directly. I graduated in Emporia on July 6 and started my job at switchboard on the 13th.
I understand sky's platform here, but there is definitely another side of this story.
I worked at least twelve hour days during corps week/roa, which, if you know anything about that job, it is emotionally demanding and "politically" challenging. I would have to answer the phones, facilitate radio transmission (the first couple of years the two different "channels" could not directly communicate with each other and we used what was called a "cross patch" to put the workers in touch with each other. For at least 3 months a year, my dreams were invaded by people whose voices I listened to 12 hours a day.......Tom Mausolf, Alan Brown, Fred Deats and then of course, the entire safety department. I also want to mention, that as the number of corps dwindled, the staff had to work two 3 hour nite shifts per week on roa set up, right along side of the inresidence corps. We had to show up on the patio, meet Alan Brown and get our work assingments (tent crew, warehouse, grounds, etc) and work till nine pm just like the corps did.
I was working the swb the last day of the roa 85 when ther was a horrible fatal car accident involving out going wows. Calling lcm, and mrs vpw and every freaking body else and telling them we had dead wows was horrible, to say nothing of the fact that I was still dealing with the Highway patrol, police, etc. When I got off my shift...........I went back to my unit on grounds to find out that the surviving wows were staying there with us (I lived with Duke Clarke who was the trunk coordinator.)
Later, I moved off grounds. I had a small apartment that I packed "field corps and friends/and or their friends" into. I had as many as 8 people staying with me every year for cw/roa.........one year, my normally $40 dollar electric bill was almost $500 dollars. NOT ONE PERSON offered me a cent to stay with me, nor helped me pay those bills........I had to have my mom send me money.
For years I coordinated the USA Pavillion, WOW reg and WOW placements room........I left my apartment every morning of cw/roa at 6 am, opened the pavillion, worked my foot off, took a 1 hour nap from 3-4, then back to the pavillion till 12:30 am. I did that year in and year out........and didn't complain, at least not very often :blink: . I loved what I was doing and working 14 or 18 hour days was my only way to contribute to my very personal goal of "Word Over the World." I know now that it was all a mirage, but for me, I totally bought into all that God and Word Over the World stuff.
I really take offense at the idea that all of us were freeloaders, sitting at home watching tv while the field corps were working their asses off.
Sure, the field corps and believers worked their butts off, but so did many of us on staff.
Radar
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GrouchoMarxJr
Yep...I appreciate what Radar is saying...so many people worked their butts off. it's a shame that it got so complicated...
The early rocks were a bunch of hippies hanging out in tents and it turned into this complex, "youth for Hitler" mentality. When the mandatory "meeting in your twig at a certain time" thing happened, I knew the whole thing was over.
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Georgio Jessio
We had fun. TOO MUCH fun. I would definetly do somethings over, some not. Orgies, while I've heard that said of us before, is a little too strong a word.
And there were plenty of adults doing the same things. It's amazing this went on and we could look in the mirror and call ourselves Christians who understood of the word of God better than anyone.
If there's one thing I miss about TWI it's ROA. Great memories. I sometimes have dreams that it still happens and I decide to go back just for ROA and to see old friends. Thank God I wake up!
Funny how I never dream about WOW Burgers.
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skyrider
Yeah.....sitting on the grass, a make-shift stage, some rock-n-roll music, a small gathering of hippies who were on an adventure to Ohio to check and see if this was another spark of the Jesus movement / culture.
Wasn't one of those earlier themes....."Addicted to the ministry of the saints" [an adaptation from I Cor/ 16:13] ? Wierwille was a smooth operator.
:)
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Jim
Yup. I did the whole backside thing for two years. I was A/V so I was spared a fair amount of the backbreaking work, but the flip side was long, long hours and total and absolute public condemnation for any mistakes made...
A/V didn't have much work in the first few weeks of prep so we sometimes got "rented out" to Way Builders and that really sucked.
BTW Radar, Tom Mausoff was better known as "Lord Mousoff" to the A/V staff because of his demanding and abrasive interactions with us. We had to occasionally dig a trench across the grounds and, of course, he was the authority on how it was to be done.
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WordWolf
"So, something I've never understood...... What made the WOW burgers that darn good?"
"Two things........1) Being really hungry and 2) Wierwille said they were (good).
Just another "buy in" to wierwille's charisma."
I'll add a few more reasons.
3) Decent sized-slab of meat (a Wendy's Double), broiled.
4) Someone mentioned how the get-together made stuff nicer.
That's true here, too.
I had a virtual twin of a WOWburger at a get-together last month.
Tasted great.
And until tonight, I hadn't figured out what it reminded me of.
5) They were the OFFICIAL Burger of the Word Over the World Ambassadors.
They were a BRANDED product.
6) Add the 5 reasons together, and toss them into the stories of people
who attended & had a good time.
Then it is raised to iconographic status, like a beefy version of the Holy Grail,
or a Krabby Patty or something.
So now you almost HAVE to try one just to see what all the commotion was about.
I related a similar experience about buying a designer latte when visiting an
internet cafe some time ago. "I felt it enhanced the experience," I said when asked.
There were similar attempts to lionize the chicken.
Don't believe me?
I think I still have a copy of the Way Productions tape with
THE SONG ABOUT THE CHICKEN somewhere.
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Jim
Wowburgers were good, but probably no better than Nation's burgers in Northern California.
I think that TWI used better than usual condiments and that might have enhanced the taste.
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WordWolf
We talked about this on the "vp and me in wonderland" thread.
Here's what lcm said-in italics
and my commentary-in boldface
"Incident of Way Corps going home after Corps Week but prior to the ROA."
"Corps Week was when the Corps got together,
and was when the Corps did the set-up and assembly of all the physical details
needed for the ROA.
(Setting up Registration, the tents, Family Tables, food stands...)
So, these Corps did setup and met together, then went home.
They worked for free for the week preceding ROA."
"Dr heard about it and reproved everyone in the corps household for the problem, for not helping to put it on."
"Setting up all that stuff doesn't count as "helping to put it on"?
That was a week's free labour!
"Reproved" them?
He should have THANKED them for the free labour!
After all,
there WAS an admission, we DID PAY for setup,
so things COULD have been done with local workers,
providing work for labourers locally.
Of course, that would mean vpw would have to accept
seeing money exit. "
"He reminded everyone of the commitments that they had made regarding a lifetime of Christian
service."
"They served a week of hard labour. What about that?
Further, when did 'a lifetime of Christian service'
become synonymous with
'involuntary servitude for life at the whims of twi'?
I don't remember MANDATORY ROA attendance
being required in the corps signups-did anyone sign such a document?"
"Every corps person needs to plan ahead one year or more so that they can be a part of
these events. They need to be able to be a part of ROA and corps fellowship."
"It occasionally came as a surprise to those people who never actually
WORKED for a living
(vpw went straight from school into pastoring,
lcm went straight from school into the way corps),
but REAL jobs have REQUIREMENTS and RESPONSIBILITIES.
All these people made arrangements for a VACATION WEEK from work
(for some of them, this was their ONLY vacation, or was unpaid leave),
paid to travel to hq on their own from all over the country,
and WORKED for a week, unpaid.
Now you have the nerve to say
'Not good enough-work MORE for free!'
NO!
These people have families to support, jobs to perform, and lives to maintain.
If they leave, it's because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to, simp!
At the very least, you owed them profound thanks.
To insult them after they worked for free
is lacking in character, lacking in integrity,
and lacking in Christian values.
So, to you who said this, I say
'F* you, AND the motorcycle you rode in on!!!!'
Or,
as Andy Kaufman once said,
''You, sir,
are a f*ing @$$h*,
a F*ing @$$h*,
a F*ING @$$H*!!!! '"
=========
I would expand on it now, but really,
I think that once you've said that, you've said it all.
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