I'm with George on this...Life is too short to spend time romanticizing about a cult experience. While all the "leaves" on the tree were frolicking and having a good time, the roots of that tree were sending the poisons of lies, deceit, manipulation and abuse through the "nutrition system" of the entire tree...
...The underlying reality of what Veepee Cornfield and his band of henchmen were doing behind closed doors, was not the best of times...it was the reality of the times. It was our gullibility and insistance to keep our heads buried in the sands of "wayworld" that enabled them.
I imagine that an ex con could think of the "best of times" in cellblock B, when he played cards with his buddies and they all laughed and had fun...somehow it seems to fall short. <_<
The best analogy that I can come up with is that talking about the "good" times in WayWorld is like kids talking about how good the candy was that the molester offered them.
I just find it inappropriate. Sorry, it's just how I see it. It was an ugly, debased, wholely worthless organization. And, though I think I'm pretty well recovered it's negative effects, I'll be damned if I'll wax poetic about some supposed periperal niceties. I'm just not going to try to paper over the ugly...
The best analogy that I can come up with is that talking about the "good" times in WayWorld is like kids talking about how good the candy was that the molester offered them.
Tell me something George. Would you put all those who sincerely attempted to help others while they were in TWI in the same pile with the illustration of the molester? How about those individuals who took the same helpful approach towards you when you were in? Or were there none that behaved that way in your personal experience?
Notice that I'm not coming from the theological/doctrinal angle, as I have given all that s**t up myself. But I personally knew a good number of people who helped a lot of people, TWI, the organization and the beliefs notwithstanding.
"Tell me something George. Would you put all those who sincerely attempted to help others while they were in TWI in the same pile with the illustration of the molester?"
You're missing my point Garth. No, I wouldn't put those people (and they DID exist, I certainly don't dispute that) in with the molester, they were THE CANDY. The good, sweet, holy, enlightening, heartwarming relationships and experiences we had in WayWorld were the bait, the rewards that kept us involved.
The goodhearted people were USED to keep us around and to swell the ranks. And I suspect that Wierwille and his closest aides did so quite consciously and calculatingly.
And yes, I do think it's a healthy thing if we finally realize that. And certainly we should feel free to talk about those good experiences and friendships and the like, but we should also keep in the forefront of our minds what those good experiences led us into the dopey outfit in the first place, and KEPT us coming back for more.
Just like an alcoholic talking about all the fun he had he first started drinking, or a drug addict talking about the greatness of his "virgin" highs, one MUST keep that stuff in perspective, if you want to stay healthy - IMNSHO...
"Tell me something George. Would you put all those who sincerely attempted to help others while they were in TWI in the same pile with the illustration of the molester?"
You're missing my point Garth. No, I wouldn't put those people (and they DID exist, I certainly don't dispute that) in with the molester, they were THE CANDY. The good, sweet, holy, enlightening, heartwarming relationships and experiences we had in WayWorld were the bait, the rewards that kept us involved.
The goodhearted people were USED to keep us around and to swell the ranks. And I suspect that Wierwille and his closest aides did so quite consciously and calculatingly.
And yes, I do think it's a healthy thing if we finally realize that. And certainly we should feel free to talk about those good experiences and friendships and the like, but we should also keep in the forefront of our minds what those good experiences led us into the dopey outfit in the first place, and KEPT us coming back for more.
Just like an alcoholic talking about all the fun he had he first started drinking, or a drug addict talking about the greatness of his "virgin" highs, one MUST keep that stuff in perspective, if you want to stay healthy - IMNSHO...
Yes........the goodhearted and upright folks in twi helped to GREASE THE TWI MACHINERY. The systematizing of err could not be sustained without it......hence, today's twi.
I don't know, they are sure having a great time over at the "Eyewitnnesses of 1976 etc" booth, tripping down memory lane.
So does that mean that all the former Way "musicians" over there, that all their work and their songs were for naught, even though many are saying that was some of the best times of their lives or the best times of their ministry experience?
For those of us that were in for 2 or 3 decades, to say that our entire past was just a big con is alot to swallow - maybe what keeps us sane now is knowing that the people that we all fondly remembering fellowshipping with is what it was all about. So in all honesty, how should a person remember that big a chunk of their life if not with some of the fond memories?
That's the way I am going to try to remember it. Great answer rascal.
The other option for some is "thinking that a great majority of your adult life was totally wasted." Then trying to pick up and move on from there.
At times....I tend to think of my life in terms of "chapters -- in a book."
My childhood and teen years.....were chapters 1-10. Within those chapters, I have a truckload of memories .... school years, first love, sports, hunting, fishing, college, etc. Good wholesome years.
My twi years........24 chapters, 24 years. Each chapter tells a story of exploits, challenges, learning experiences, etc. Keeps me from adopting an all black/white viewpoint......which, imo is unhealthy and very twi-like. Also, "chapters" keep the focus on MY life.......not someone else's. It's my life's story.
When I exited twi.....chapter 35 started. :)
Hopefully, I'll have lots more chapters before my life is over. Dunno, tho.
That's the way I am going to try to remember it. Great answer rascal.
The other option for some is "thinking that a great majority of your adult life was totally wasted." Then trying to pick up and move on from there.
Maybe just give yourself credit for the good times ... they happened despite the oppressiveness of twi heavy handedness. Now that you are free from that albatross, life should get even better. :)
Personally I can't wait till tomorrow, 'cuz I get better lookin' every day! OK, I think that was a Joe Namath book, but I mostly feel that way The best part of the book is yet to be written, the twi part was just character development.
(I guess I should add that I recognize that most stories are not fairy tales, but being out of twi puts me in a stronger position to write a better story, like twi was the antagonist and they have been killed off now ... certainly some stories were more tragic than others ... but most have a chance to move on...)
TWI was FULL of GRAY AREAS. That's what kept us all bamboozled for so long.
There were some good things that happened to me in TWI. Lets see...uh... I met my husband there.... I learned how to use the proper fork... I met some really nice folks who are still good friends to me today... (well, they are outa there...) Evan kept us laughing at the Texas Farm, mooning the exploitative farmer... we had some really sweet and tender times with lots of folks in small gatherings. There are many more. But the bad for me and my family eventually outweighed and overpowered whatever good happened to me at their hands.
Your experience does not negate mine, nor does mine yours. Just because some good things happened there, doesn't mean that terrible and tragic things did not happen as well, to me or to others. And just because I had a mix of experiences, doesn't mean that there aren't folks out there who had NOTHING but awful experiences.
And there are some who claim that nothing but good ever happened to them at TWI. Usually those folks are still in. If they are out, there was SOMETHING that made their involvement with the organization no longer worth the hassle.
But I'm through with going through life with blinders on. I did enough of that in TWI. Yes, overall, it was a terrible experience for me. But I refuse to ignore that GOD is EVERYWHERE PRESENT, and can reach you in the worst hellhole and bless and speak to your soul. That doesn't mean it is His will for you to STAY in a hellhole, it's just that He can and did bless me and others, and for that I am thankful. And remembering the good things that happened keeps me sane and from drowning in depression.
In order to remain objective, you have to look at all aspects, not pick and choose what to observe and what to ignore.
One of the fun times for me while being involved with TWI was sitting on the porch at Don's (who owned the gas station in town). His house was right next to the station. His son, Denny, and my roomie, DeeAnn and I used to sit on the swing on that porch and drink beer and yell "WAYER" to cars that went buy with a bumper sticker on them or cars we recognized. (DeeAnn and I were both on staff at that time too). VP would get calls at 2 and 3 a.m. about us. He called us into his office once at 2:30 a.m. from yet another phone call & asked what we thought we were doing. Wittnessing, of course, was our answer as we laughed our butts off. He just chuckled & sent us on our way. That is just "one" of the fun memories I have.
I understand the hurt that TWI caused several people, but it couldn't have been all bad since something kept us locked in for all those years.
Since I was a young'n back in my TWI days, most of the memories I have of the various twigs, branch meetings, limb meetings, trunk meetings, ROAs, and even Family Corps were all good.
Being a kid in Mini-Corps, I thought it was fun because of all the stuff there was to do on the grounds. The building itself had hidden passageways, each with its own gohst or conspiracy stories. My favorite game was playing hide-and-go-seek throughout the building. Every season, we would pick strawberries and corn. I sang on a childrens' "Household Holiday" album that was recorded at HQ but never got released because the lost the master tapes, but the experience was fun. I even got a solo. There was always things to do and since there was no TV, I played all day long every day. I remember riding skateboards down the hill by the townhouses, playing capture the flag on Uncle Harry Hill, snowball fights, checking out sleds from the children's fellowship hall, and having sleepovers with freinds every weekend. Of course, there was the children's fellowship thing you had to attend every night, but I didn't mind it. Besides, upon graduating from the Corps at age 11, I knew more about the Bible than any kid I knew and most adults. I still have my white and yellow retemeries which I committed to memory at such a young age. Of course, I was sheltered from the heavy stuff, but I really enjoyed the experience and I will always remember my time in the Corps fondly.
In response to George Aar, our resident curmudgeon (and one of my chat buddies),
Your responses in this thread really made me pause and think, and for quite a while. I respect your right to your own opinion. After careful consideration, I find that mine remains quite different from yours. And, I am a bit uncomfortable with the “all encompassing” tone of your posts, as if the way you view twi and your experiences there is the true reality, and if other’s reality is different, then they are suffering from denial.
I often wrestle with the idea that you pose, that, whether we knew it or not, we were all involved in a cult. Sorry, I can’t accept that. I do not know your background/involvement/position in twi, but from your posts I gather that it was quite different from mine. You may have been involved in the corps or working at a root locale. I never was. I always lived “in the field” and my highest level of service was as a twig coordinator. To me, twi was not the root locales, nor the leadership there, nor at the Region, nor Limb level. Twi was the fellowship I was involved in, first and foremost, and the Branch that we were associated with. That’s where I lived my day to day life. And our twigs still operated in a more or less autonomous fashion. We did send our abundant sharing to headquarters, but I was never told what to teach or what to study. No one dictated how I was to live my life, that was my decision. As for trying to squelch my individuality, I remember quite the opposite. I was encouraged to develop the Christ in me, which was taught to be unique because I was an individual. Things could have been rotten in the inner sanctum in New Knoxville, Ohio, but to me living in Greenville, NC and then Memphis, TN, the people were not rotten (save a few bad apples here and there) and their intentions were pure and honest. The inner sanctum may have been a cult, but that’s not where I lived and breathed. In my Twigs, we were not a cult, we were a loving group that desired to serve God and his people, with no ulterior motives other than for the blessings in their lives and our own. To me, that is not a cult.
I looked up the definition of cult and found the following two part definition:
a) A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false,
b) with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
I can go along with part a, as here in the Bible Belt, anything outside the norm of fundamentalist, protestant, Christianity is considered extremist or false, sadly, even including those that practice the Jewish, Jehovah Witnesses, or Mormon faiths, to name a few. (Please note, I do not consider these faiths as cults, but they are considered such by the norms of the self-professed Christians here.) But for me, personally, part b was never a reality. Prior to living in a Way Home, I had lived in a sorority house with 30 other girls, preferring to live in the 3rd floor attic with 11 others, versus living on the 2nd floor, sharing a room with between 1 and 5 other people. In the Way Home I had much more free time, and many fewer mandatory activities than in the sorority house. The Way Home had virtually no rules, compared to those in a sorority house. Both had leaders that I liked, and I thoroughly enjoyed the time I spent in both environments and have no regrets about my manner of living in either place. Actually, the majority of the time I was involved with twi, I lived alone in apartments, or after marrying, with my husband and children.
In response to
We DIDN'T learn any special, secret "truths" - unknown for ages. We didn't find any special entre unto the Almighty. And we sure as hell didn't have any "abundant life" if you compare us with our contemporaries.
I do not see it that way at all. It brings to mind a local commercial about the daily newspaper here, “until you have read it, it is still news to you.” I may not have learned any “ special, secret "truths" - unknown for ages”, but I most certainly learned a lot more in twi than I had growing up in the Presbyterian church. Until I was taught the Bible, it was a “secret” to me. And it was through my involvement with twi that I finally was able to develop a close and intimate relationship with God, something I had searched for my entire life. True, I may have been able to do the same elsewhere through another group, but when I was searching, twi was the group I found (and I believe God led me to). Speak for yourself, I had a very "abundant life" compared to my contemporaries. In Greenville, I was a college student, but not struggling. In undergraduate school, I had the support of my parents, and a job at the Medical School. In graduate school, I was on a full fellowship and lived comfortably. Then I taught at ECU for a while. Federal Express moved me to Memphis, and I quickly rose to the management ranks. I was able to support myself in a nice lifestyle, able to give in the many ways I chose to twi and other organizations, and had a healthy investment portfolio and savings account. And I wasn’t the lone ranger, many of my twi contemporaries shared the same, or better, lifestyle than me.
The following statements, in your “IMNSHO”, may attest to the reason you have earned the title of resident curmudgeon.
“Jeezus GAWD, we were scammed, played for fools, abused, used, and degraded. That we somehow managed to still chuckle every now and then doesn't mitigate the reality of that...”
I do not, and have never felt, that way. I do not view myself as a victim, but rather a victor - someone who learned a great deal, and grew and matured in all areas of my life during my tenure with twi. As for
“I think the context of our experiences DOES matter. And the fact that we WASTED years of our lives, money, resources, and our life energy pursuing a fictional, twisted, neo-fascist dream is more than embarassing to me. It's downright shameful and depressing.”
Again, the context of my experience was on the field, in the real world, with genuine, caring people. I can’t speak as to what your context may have been. And I do not feel that I wasted any part of my life with twi, in fact, I greatly benefitted from my alliance. Nor am I embarrassed, ashamed, or depressed by my involvement. I am thankful. And reading your posts, I must wonder about your statement,
“And, though I think I'm pretty well recovered it's negative effects,”
These sections I bolded in these two quotes seem to contradict one another..
“But whenever this topic comes along (and it has several times), it always strikes me as being more than a little bit in denial. Yeah, we had some good times. Geeze, doesn't EVERYBODY? But to pick those elements out as if to indicate that there was indeed some real, basic goodness in the whole experience I think is unhealthy.”
"Tell me something George. Would you put all those who sincerely attempted to help others while they were in TWI in the same pile with the illustration of the molester?"
You're missing my point Garth. No, I wouldn't put those people (and they DID exist, I certainly don't dispute that) in with the molester, they were THE CANDY. The good, sweet, holy, enlightening, heartwarming relationships and experiences we had in WayWorld were the bait, the rewards that kept us involved.
The goodhearted people were USED to keep us around and to swell the ranks. And I suspect that Wierwille and his closest aides did so quite consciously and calculatingly.
So George, these goodhearted people, the candy and bait you refer to, were they not the real, basic goodness in the whole experience? Aren’t the “best of times” shared by these people what Danteh is asking to have posted here? It would seem that you are saying, that because these people were, in your opinion, being directly and consciously and calculatingly manipulated by vpw and his closest aids, were unknowing puppets in his show, having their strings pulled and not being aware of it, that they really didn’t have any good times, it was all a farce because of the behind-the-scenes actions. Sorry, I can’t buy that reasoning. That may be your reality, but it surely is not mine.
It seems your point is, enjoy reminiscing about the good times as long as you are aware that you were nothing but a puppet in the hands of an evil puppeteer. As stated before, the inner sanctum of twi was not where I was involved. And though I chose to be influenced and guided by the teachings of twi, I was in control of my life , my thoughts, and my actions and I was not a puppet on a string. You seem to imply that the good times were only in the beginning, and once we were “trapped”, they ceased. Couldn’t disagree more. For me, the good times lasted until about the time of POP. In the aftermath, and the M&A teachings, it started smelling rotten in the field. So I left, as did a multitude of others. When twi started resembling a cult on the field, many on the field left. It may have been a cult in the minds of the organizer(s) from day one, I’ll never know. But on the field, it wasn’t for me until M&A.
And this analogy seems way off base.
“Just like an alcoholic talking about all the fun he had he first started drinking, or a drug addict talking about the greatness of his "virgin" highs, one MUST keep that stuff in perspective, if you want to stay healthy”
There is no redeeming value associated with alcohol and drug abuse. There is great redeeming value in gaining knowledge of God, the Bible, and a spiritual lifestyle.
George, not saying your reality is not true to you. Just different than mine. As are our views of the time we spent with twi.
And Danteh, thanks for the thread. Many of us have wonderful memories, and this is a great place to post them.
I understand the hurt that TWI caused several people, but it couldn't have been all bad since something kept us locked in for all those years.
Since I was a young'n back in my TWI days, most of the memories I have of the various twigs, branch meetings, limb meetings, trunk meetings, ROAs, and even Family Corps were all good.
Being a kid in Mini-Corps, I thought it was fun because of all the stuff there was to do on the grounds. The building itself had hidden passageways, each with its own gohst or conspiracy stories. My favorite game was playing hide-and-go-seek throughout the building. Every season, we would pick strawberries and corn. I sang on a childrens' "Household Holiday" album that was recorded at HQ but never got released because the lost the master tapes, but the experience was fun. I even got a solo. There was always things to do and since there was no TV, I played all day long every day. I remember riding skateboards down the hill by the townhouses, playing capture the flag on Uncle Harry Hill, snowball fights, checking out sleds from the children's fellowship hall, and having sleepovers with freinds every weekend. Of course, there was the children's fellowship thing you had to attend every night, but I didn't mind it. Besides, upon graduating from the Corps at age 11, I knew more about the Bible than any kid I knew and most adults. I still have my white and yellow retemeries which I committed to memory at such a young age. Of course, I was sheltered from the heavy stuff, but I really enjoyed the experience and I will always remember my time in the Corps fondly.
now grown
first of all welcome to greese spot
but one thing i beg to differ with you is
you said several people were hurt
think about thousands of people who were hurt by that cornfield outfit
Just like an alcoholic talking about all the fun he had he first started drinking, or a drug addict talking about the greatness of his "virgin" highs, one MUST keep that stuff in perspective, if you want to stay healthy
There is no redeeming value associated with alcohol and drug abuse. There is great redeeming value in gaining knowledge of God, the Bible, and a spiritual lifestyle.
Suda, this is where there is a perceptual divide. Some users of drugs and alcohol, "abusers" or not, don't see themselves as abusing, and do see redeeming value to what they're doing. 'Til the day he died George Harrison never expressed a regret about his drug use...personally I think his perspective was a bit skewed
As far as there being redeeming value in "gaining knowledge of God, the Bible, and a spiritual lifestyle", how can one argue with that? But not all agree that that's what was happening whilst in TWI.
I got involved through a couple people that witnessed to me in '83. Up until the past 4-5 years I enjoyed being with other believers. The friendships developed duringthese years, I believe, helped me to better hone my people skills. It showed me how to better deal with a variety of situations & I really learned a lot about trusting my first instincts, even if they disagreed with what we were being taught. Thanks to this I was able to see the red flags when the control freaks started to go to work on us. It enabled me to stay alert & avoid some of the trash that others got caught in.
I got involved through a couple people that witnessed to me in '83. Up until the past 4-5 years I enjoyed being with other believers. The friendships developed duringthese years, I believe, helped me to better hone my people skills. It showed me how to better deal with a variety of situations & I really learned a lot about trusting my first instincts, even if they disagreed with what we were being taught. Thanks to this I was able to see the red flags when the control freaks started to go to work on us. It enabled me to stay alert & avoid some of the trash that others got caught in.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I'm with George on this...Life is too short to spend time romanticizing about a cult experience. While all the "leaves" on the tree were frolicking and having a good time, the roots of that tree were sending the poisons of lies, deceit, manipulation and abuse through the "nutrition system" of the entire tree...
...The underlying reality of what Veepee Cornfield and his band of henchmen were doing behind closed doors, was not the best of times...it was the reality of the times. It was our gullibility and insistance to keep our heads buried in the sands of "wayworld" that enabled them.
I imagine that an ex con could think of the "best of times" in cellblock B, when he played cards with his buddies and they all laughed and had fun...somehow it seems to fall short. <_<
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George Aar
The best analogy that I can come up with is that talking about the "good" times in WayWorld is like kids talking about how good the candy was that the molester offered them.
I just find it inappropriate. Sorry, it's just how I see it. It was an ugly, debased, wholely worthless organization. And, though I think I'm pretty well recovered it's negative effects, I'll be damned if I'll wax poetic about some supposed periperal niceties. I'm just not going to try to paper over the ugly...
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topoftheworld
Forget it-it's not worth it.
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GarthP2000
Tell me something George. Would you put all those who sincerely attempted to help others while they were in TWI in the same pile with the illustration of the molester? How about those individuals who took the same helpful approach towards you when you were in? Or were there none that behaved that way in your personal experience?
Notice that I'm not coming from the theological/doctrinal angle, as I have given all that s**t up myself. But I personally knew a good number of people who helped a lot of people, TWI, the organization and the beliefs notwithstanding.
But hey, that's me.
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George Aar
"Tell me something George. Would you put all those who sincerely attempted to help others while they were in TWI in the same pile with the illustration of the molester?"
You're missing my point Garth. No, I wouldn't put those people (and they DID exist, I certainly don't dispute that) in with the molester, they were THE CANDY. The good, sweet, holy, enlightening, heartwarming relationships and experiences we had in WayWorld were the bait, the rewards that kept us involved.
The goodhearted people were USED to keep us around and to swell the ranks. And I suspect that Wierwille and his closest aides did so quite consciously and calculatingly.
And yes, I do think it's a healthy thing if we finally realize that. And certainly we should feel free to talk about those good experiences and friendships and the like, but we should also keep in the forefront of our minds what those good experiences led us into the dopey outfit in the first place, and KEPT us coming back for more.
Just like an alcoholic talking about all the fun he had he first started drinking, or a drug addict talking about the greatness of his "virgin" highs, one MUST keep that stuff in perspective, if you want to stay healthy - IMNSHO...
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skyrider
Yes........the goodhearted and upright folks in twi helped to GREASE THE TWI MACHINERY. The systematizing of err could not be sustained without it......hence, today's twi.
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rascal
Agreed, The public saw and was attracted to the wholesome character and saw the pure hearts and motives of those *good people* ....
The evil could not have operated had they not had the innocent to hide behind :(
They used us, they used the scriptures and they used God.
Pretty slick
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outofdafog
I don't know, they are sure having a great time over at the "Eyewitnnesses of 1976 etc" booth, tripping down memory lane.
So does that mean that all the former Way "musicians" over there, that all their work and their songs were for naught, even though many are saying that was some of the best times of their lives or the best times of their ministry experience?
For those of us that were in for 2 or 3 decades, to say that our entire past was just a big con is alot to swallow - maybe what keeps us sane now is knowing that the people that we all fondly remembering fellowshipping with is what it was all about. So in all honesty, how should a person remember that big a chunk of their life if not with some of the fond memories?
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rascal
As a learning experience?
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outofdafog
That's the way I am going to try to remember it. Great answer rascal.
The other option for some is "thinking that a great majority of your adult life was totally wasted." Then trying to pick up and move on from there.
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skyrider
At times....I tend to think of my life in terms of "chapters -- in a book."
My childhood and teen years.....were chapters 1-10. Within those chapters, I have a truckload of memories .... school years, first love, sports, hunting, fishing, college, etc. Good wholesome years.
My twi years........24 chapters, 24 years. Each chapter tells a story of exploits, challenges, learning experiences, etc. Keeps me from adopting an all black/white viewpoint......which, imo is unhealthy and very twi-like. Also, "chapters" keep the focus on MY life.......not someone else's. It's my life's story.
When I exited twi.....chapter 35 started. :)
Hopefully, I'll have lots more chapters before my life is over. Dunno, tho.
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outofdafog
See that's why I like this site so much - sky that is a really neat analogy
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rhino
Personally I can't wait till tomorrow, 'cuz I get better lookin' every day! OK, I think that was a Joe Namath book, but I mostly feel that way
The best part of the book is yet to be written, the twi part was just character development.
(I guess I should add that I recognize that most stories are not fairy tales, but being out of twi puts me in a stronger position to write a better story, like twi was the antagonist and they have been killed off now ... certainly some stories were more tragic than others ... but most have a chance to move on...)
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Catcup
TWI was FULL of GRAY AREAS. That's what kept us all bamboozled for so long.
There were some good things that happened to me in TWI. Lets see...uh... I met my husband there.... I learned how to use the proper fork... I met some really nice folks who are still good friends to me today... (well, they are outa there...) Evan kept us laughing at the Texas Farm, mooning the exploitative farmer... we had some really sweet and tender times with lots of folks in small gatherings. There are many more. But the bad for me and my family eventually outweighed and overpowered whatever good happened to me at their hands.
Your experience does not negate mine, nor does mine yours. Just because some good things happened there, doesn't mean that terrible and tragic things did not happen as well, to me or to others. And just because I had a mix of experiences, doesn't mean that there aren't folks out there who had NOTHING but awful experiences.
And there are some who claim that nothing but good ever happened to them at TWI. Usually those folks are still in. If they are out, there was SOMETHING that made their involvement with the organization no longer worth the hassle.
But I'm through with going through life with blinders on. I did enough of that in TWI. Yes, overall, it was a terrible experience for me. But I refuse to ignore that GOD is EVERYWHERE PRESENT, and can reach you in the worst hellhole and bless and speak to your soul. That doesn't mean it is His will for you to STAY in a hellhole, it's just that He can and did bless me and others, and for that I am thankful. And remembering the good things that happened keeps me sane and from drowning in depression.
In order to remain objective, you have to look at all aspects, not pick and choose what to observe and what to ignore.
Not accepting that, is not accepting the truth
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likeaneagle
It was all about character development and for me as well, It made me a better person in ways...unspeakably true they sure lied and decieved many..
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sogwap51
One of the fun times for me while being involved with TWI was sitting on the porch at Don's (who owned the gas station in town). His house was right next to the station. His son, Denny, and my roomie, DeeAnn and I used to sit on the swing on that porch and drink beer and yell "WAYER" to cars that went buy with a bumper sticker on them or cars we recognized. (DeeAnn and I were both on staff at that time too).
VP would get calls at 2 and 3 a.m. about us. He called us into his office once at 2:30 a.m. from yet another phone call & asked what we thought we were doing. Wittnessing, of course, was our answer as we laughed our butts off. He just chuckled & sent us on our way. That is just "one" of the fun memories I have.
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Belle
LOL! That DOES sound like fun, SOGWAP!
Probably couldn't get away with that today, though.
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nowgrown
I understand the hurt that TWI caused several people, but it couldn't have been all bad since something kept us locked in for all those years.
Since I was a young'n back in my TWI days, most of the memories I have of the various twigs, branch meetings, limb meetings, trunk meetings, ROAs, and even Family Corps were all good.
Being a kid in Mini-Corps, I thought it was fun because of all the stuff there was to do on the grounds. The building itself had hidden passageways, each with its own gohst or conspiracy stories. My favorite game was playing hide-and-go-seek throughout the building. Every season, we would pick strawberries and corn. I sang on a childrens' "Household Holiday" album that was recorded at HQ but never got released because the lost the master tapes, but the experience was fun. I even got a solo. There was always things to do and since there was no TV, I played all day long every day. I remember riding skateboards down the hill by the townhouses, playing capture the flag on Uncle Harry Hill, snowball fights, checking out sleds from the children's fellowship hall, and having sleepovers with freinds every weekend. Of course, there was the children's fellowship thing you had to attend every night, but I didn't mind it. Besides, upon graduating from the Corps at age 11, I knew more about the Bible than any kid I knew and most adults. I still have my white and yellow retemeries which I committed to memory at such a young age. Of course, I was sheltered from the heavy stuff, but I really enjoyed the experience and I will always remember my time in the Corps fondly.
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Suda
In response to George Aar, our resident curmudgeon (and one of my chat buddies),
Your responses in this thread really made me pause and think, and for quite a while. I respect your right to your own opinion. After careful consideration, I find that mine remains quite different from yours. And, I am a bit uncomfortable with the “all encompassing” tone of your posts, as if the way you view twi and your experiences there is the true reality, and if other’s reality is different, then they are suffering from denial.
I often wrestle with the idea that you pose, that, whether we knew it or not, we were all involved in a cult. Sorry, I can’t accept that. I do not know your background/involvement/position in twi, but from your posts I gather that it was quite different from mine. You may have been involved in the corps or working at a root locale. I never was. I always lived “in the field” and my highest level of service was as a twig coordinator. To me, twi was not the root locales, nor the leadership there, nor at the Region, nor Limb level. Twi was the fellowship I was involved in, first and foremost, and the Branch that we were associated with. That’s where I lived my day to day life. And our twigs still operated in a more or less autonomous fashion. We did send our abundant sharing to headquarters, but I was never told what to teach or what to study. No one dictated how I was to live my life, that was my decision. As for trying to squelch my individuality, I remember quite the opposite. I was encouraged to develop the Christ in me, which was taught to be unique because I was an individual. Things could have been rotten in the inner sanctum in New Knoxville, Ohio, but to me living in Greenville, NC and then Memphis, TN, the people were not rotten (save a few bad apples here and there) and their intentions were pure and honest. The inner sanctum may have been a cult, but that’s not where I lived and breathed. In my Twigs, we were not a cult, we were a loving group that desired to serve God and his people, with no ulterior motives other than for the blessings in their lives and our own. To me, that is not a cult.
I looked up the definition of cult and found the following two part definition:
a) A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false,
b) with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
I can go along with part a, as here in the Bible Belt, anything outside the norm of fundamentalist, protestant, Christianity is considered extremist or false, sadly, even including those that practice the Jewish, Jehovah Witnesses, or Mormon faiths, to name a few. (Please note, I do not consider these faiths as cults, but they are considered such by the norms of the self-professed Christians here.) But for me, personally, part b was never a reality. Prior to living in a Way Home, I had lived in a sorority house with 30 other girls, preferring to live in the 3rd floor attic with 11 others, versus living on the 2nd floor, sharing a room with between 1 and 5 other people. In the Way Home I had much more free time, and many fewer mandatory activities than in the sorority house. The Way Home had virtually no rules, compared to those in a sorority house. Both had leaders that I liked, and I thoroughly enjoyed the time I spent in both environments and have no regrets about my manner of living in either place. Actually, the majority of the time I was involved with twi, I lived alone in apartments, or after marrying, with my husband and children.
In response to
I do not see it that way at all. It brings to mind a local commercial about the daily newspaper here, “until you have read it, it is still news to you.” I may not have learned any “ special, secret "truths" - unknown for ages”, but I most certainly learned a lot more in twi than I had growing up in the Presbyterian church. Until I was taught the Bible, it was a “secret” to me. And it was through my involvement with twi that I finally was able to develop a close and intimate relationship with God, something I had searched for my entire life. True, I may have been able to do the same elsewhere through another group, but when I was searching, twi was the group I found (and I believe God led me to). Speak for yourself, I had a very "abundant life" compared to my contemporaries. In Greenville, I was a college student, but not struggling. In undergraduate school, I had the support of my parents, and a job at the Medical School. In graduate school, I was on a full fellowship and lived comfortably. Then I taught at ECU for a while. Federal Express moved me to Memphis, and I quickly rose to the management ranks. I was able to support myself in a nice lifestyle, able to give in the many ways I chose to twi and other organizations, and had a healthy investment portfolio and savings account. And I wasn’t the lone ranger, many of my twi contemporaries shared the same, or better, lifestyle than me.The following statements, in your “IMNSHO”, may attest to the reason you have earned the title of resident curmudgeon.
I do not, and have never felt, that way. I do not view myself as a victim, but rather a victor - someone who learned a great deal, and grew and matured in all areas of my life during my tenure with twi. As for Again, the context of my experience was on the field, in the real world, with genuine, caring people. I can’t speak as to what your context may have been. And I do not feel that I wasted any part of my life with twi, in fact, I greatly benefitted from my alliance. Nor am I embarrassed, ashamed, or depressed by my involvement. I am thankful. And reading your posts, I must wonder about your statement,These sections I bolded in these two quotes seem to contradict one another..
So George, these goodhearted people, the candy and bait you refer to, were they not the real, basic goodness in the whole experience? Aren’t the “best of times” shared by these people what Danteh is asking to have posted here? It would seem that you are saying, that because these people were, in your opinion, being directly and consciously and calculatingly manipulated by vpw and his closest aids, were unknowing puppets in his show, having their strings pulled and not being aware of it, that they really didn’t have any good times, it was all a farce because of the behind-the-scenes actions. Sorry, I can’t buy that reasoning. That may be your reality, but it surely is not mine.
It seems your point is, enjoy reminiscing about the good times as long as you are aware that you were nothing but a puppet in the hands of an evil puppeteer. As stated before, the inner sanctum of twi was not where I was involved. And though I chose to be influenced and guided by the teachings of twi, I was in control of my life , my thoughts, and my actions and I was not a puppet on a string. You seem to imply that the good times were only in the beginning, and once we were “trapped”, they ceased. Couldn’t disagree more. For me, the good times lasted until about the time of POP. In the aftermath, and the M&A teachings, it started smelling rotten in the field. So I left, as did a multitude of others. When twi started resembling a cult on the field, many on the field left. It may have been a cult in the minds of the organizer(s) from day one, I’ll never know. But on the field, it wasn’t for me until M&A.
And this analogy seems way off base.
There is no redeeming value associated with alcohol and drug abuse. There is great redeeming value in gaining knowledge of God, the Bible, and a spiritual lifestyle.George, not saying your reality is not true to you. Just different than mine. As are our views of the time we spent with twi.
And Danteh, thanks for the thread. Many of us have wonderful memories, and this is a great place to post them.
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coolchef
now grown
first of all welcome to greese spot
but one thing i beg to differ with you is
you said several people were hurt
think about thousands of people who were hurt by that cornfield outfit
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Oakspear
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Oakspear
As far as there being redeeming value in "gaining knowledge of God, the Bible, and a spiritual lifestyle", how can one argue with that? But not all agree that that's what was happening whilst in TWI.
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railroader II
I got involved through a couple people that witnessed to me in '83. Up until the past 4-5 years I enjoyed being with other believers. The friendships developed duringthese years, I believe, helped me to better hone my people skills. It showed me how to better deal with a variety of situations & I really learned a lot about trusting my first instincts, even if they disagreed with what we were being taught. Thanks to this I was able to see the red flags when the control freaks started to go to work on us. It enabled me to stay alert & avoid some of the trash that others got caught in.
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dmiller
Railroader II -- welcome to the site! :)
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