The Sense of Loss

[Tom Strange]

Big difference dude... in case you haven't noticed, I'm trying not to respond to you because it's just a derail and I think this is an important thread... if you want to talk about that other stuff start a new topic on 'spin doctoring' and 'brainwashing'... I'll happily engage you there.

[oldiesman]

Your talk of callousness contributed to the derail.

You are always free to start a new topic on it, if you want. :)

[I Love Bagpipes]

Oh my!!

I'm sort of proud of myself...I actually caused a little stir.....or spin....dizzy, dizzy, dizzy.

Of course that was not my intent.

However, I enjoy the dialogue...differences of opinions are refeshing to me....and I am not offended easily.

Thanks to all again for the responses:

Tbone: Gosh! I take that as a compliment...I can aritculate what you feel! You are a master with words.

Sportsfan: Thank you. I'll say a pray for you and yours from time to time. We may sort of be on the same page, having recently left after so many years.

Likeaneagle: YES YES! Soon we will have to get together. Let's pm and figure a time. :)

Highway: You hit the nail on the head and brought tears to my eyes. You said it exactly. Thank you for putting what I feel/trying to sort through into words. And I know it won't last forever (see below).

OM: Well, when I read your first response I thought, "Well..this seems to maybe a lighthearted response noticing the emoticons....maybe it is a critical response. Dunno...maybe a mix of the two. I'll lean toward the lighthearted side." It also confronted me some...shaking off the pity party. And, just so you know...I have been busy. :) Is this post a complaint? Hmmmm...that wasn't in my thinking. It is more processing. I do not want to bury what I feel. I did that in TWI, with high-priced consequences. Neither do I want to stay stuck in the "loss." Therefore, I don't think I'm complaining....and maybe I am....but I know I am processing.

Sunny Fla and Rascal and I'll invite dmiller and WN too: I'm sipping Borders Blend with hazelnut and a little caramel. Hmm..is that still considered coffee?

WG: "Slowly and irregularly"....good descriptions. I thought this morning about physical healing...the body will retrace symptoms. This is called a healing crisis or response and some call it detoxing. Either way, old symptoms arise, are pushed out, and are gone...once and for all. So I thought these "episodes" will come in waves. I'll ride it out. And another page is turned.

Tom Strange: I KNOW you have a sense of humor. And I think you know how much I appreciate all your input and insight and compassion and empathy. Thanks for the sites. I perused a few way back when and think I might revisit.

Okay...are you ready for what's next?

[I Love Bagpipes]

Here is the "what's next."

About 1 year ago (while still in TWI) one of my counselors asked me if I would write out my "health" story. She is in process of putting a book together and asked a few of her clients to share their stories. She asked for specific information to be included.

I finished this task sometime in May (I think). I have debated whether or not to post it. After starting this thread, I've decided to post it over in "My Story." It may explain some of the loss I deal with.

Geezz......here I go :blink: ......... JUMP!!!

Edited July 18, 2006 by I Love Bagpipes

[pond]

Want to know how I feel about would have could have should have or IF only???

I say FCK IT!

why because it changes nothing.

i have done the right thing all my life never played dirty took my responsibilitiies and paid my way and nevr messed up.

and i see everydy somone who had 1000,00 in lotery .... it away on booze and drugs in less than a year and i see bad bad people who have hurt others have alot going for them in my eyes.

but I look at me and I got nothing and I have been used and abused and I have been a fool and i have been hurt.

I do not deserve it.

then one day I said who does really?

is that at all God will?

that we get to play out justice today in our time? that we get to see the wrongs given justice ? do our good deed need to be rewarded?

today???

well here is the thing as Righteous as God is we would ALL be toast burnt alive . and the rewards are coming I believe that.

so i keep going on moving up the staircase of life and I do not judge.

I see amazing grace today adn i try to abide within it.

not because Im in NEED of it because everyone is . and i know that it is everyone.

so today i can have alot of choices.. yesterday or the ability to change it of it isnt one of the choices.

we can have alot of wishful thinking about the past to.

it iis what it is.

even without twi.. or that car accident or the drug abuse the list is endless... how different would it have been?

are you abosolutely sure of that?

what eles could have should have or might have happened?

see?

so the magic thinking your involved in now of what could have been is no more than a fairy tale really.

it is what it is.

today is the only difference you can make for tommorrow.

but then something might happen ...... and what happened today will seem a total waste of your life.

when we know better we do better.

[Mr. Pipes]

My beloved Bagpipes grieves for both of us.

I had no WC experience - just coordinated fellowships, classes,

and showed up to help out at many a meeting and class.. I've regained our marriage, a lot

of time and money, and lost the sense of embarassment of being

part of TWI. I have also lost a good bit of stress.

A very good ex-TWI minister who has helped Bagpipes and me

make the transition told us repeatedly, "The later rain will be greater

than the former rain". That is coming true. :)

Thanks to all of you who have supported us. Life is immensely

better outside the confines of TWI. We have made HUGE gains in

our lives the last three months.

Obviously the WC experience takes a real hold on one's emotions. Must be quite the program. :unsure:

Thanks again for the insight and support to my beloved and me.

[likeaneagle]

Mr.Pipes-

Im so glad you have people who have helped you and Carol. Without those extended armsand greater understanding, without it I would be very very lost.

You sound like a wonderful man and husband..

Im so happy to have met your wife via GSC..

[Mr. Pipes]

Hey Eagle,

You'd be one of the supporters ("heppers" as the true southerners often say) I mentioned. Thanks for

"heppin' out". Heard you'd recently moved into the state - welcome to it.

The Mrs. is equally as happy to have met you. "Take care now, ya hear". (Gotta git ya properly

indoctrinated to the dialect)

[likeaneagle]

Your Dad Bern Rit......hhheee

ok, I will work on the spelling.

[Belle]

Pipes, I, too, love your ramblings. Ramble On! (I'll let you hum the tune while I type )

Ramble on,

And nows the time, the time is now

To sing my song.

Loss - big loss - I've had to deal with possibly having lost the chance to have my own child and the family I always wanted. That still stings and there isn't a day that goes by when I don't think about that.

The other things..... like everyone else has shared ..... the other things have been restored no less than 10-fold in my life. Renewed family relationships that are even closer and tighter than before. Renewed friendships that I never dreamed I would have again. New friends in abundance and a greater appreciation for eople, life and different beliefs.

I'm not bitter about my time in TWI. I made the decisions I did and have to live with them. I use them now to help others and to be stronger, wiser and to give in ways I never could or would have before.

It's not lingering and dwelling in the past, feeling sorry for ourselves or anything else "bad" or wrong to recognize, question and discuss these feelings as they come up. Never let anyone make you feel bad for that! There will be more days, times, feelings like this come up and some will be new. That's what GSpot is here for, to share a cuppa joe with friends and talk about the changes we're experiencing in our new life ventures. And, just like the real world, we have jerks here, too.

[I Love Bagpipes]

Thank you for the replies.

Pond......hmmm. I don't think I'm magic or fairy tale thinking...but I am processing. I'm really a lighthearted person and (I think) fun to be around, actually look at the good side of life and endeavor to keep my heart filled with gratitude. Right now, and maybe for a time longer, I'm sure I will go through grief and I don't want to bury it. But thanks for your input and reminding me that "today is the only difference I can make for tomorrow."

Likeaneagle we can practice spelling when we visit face to face.

Belle, thanks for permission to feel. So often that was thwarted in TWI.

And thanks beyond measure and more than words can express to my Mr. Pipes.

I wish every woman could be blessed with such a compassionate, understanding, and patient man.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

..."so this deep sense of loss, does it ever go away?"

Yes my friend, it goes away... :)

[excathedra]

i agree dear groucho, but sometimes i wonder why i'm still here after all these years.....

[sirguessalot]

i agree dear groucho, but sometimes i wonder why i'm still here after all these years.....

e, that has got to be one of the greatest questions...ever

that question we find after we're done asking all the many dumber questions we needed to ask

cuz life can be loss after loss after loss after loss

and when nothing is left

and we are still here

there is a clarity

i dunno

[GrouchoMarxJr]

i agree dear groucho, but sometimes i wonder why i'm still here after all these years.....

Remember the old poem "The Bridge Builder"?

After all I've gone through, after all the "recovery" I have achieved, after my heart has been healed and I have a new life...why am I still here?

Because of wonderful people like Bagpipes...If I can be at this place...and keep my heart open for others ...whose hearts are wounded...and extend myself to them...I dunno...I feel like I owe it to them because I am in a position to do exactly that. Because I understand...and my heart cries with them because I know what their hearts feel like. I intend to stay here for that reason. To tell them that it's gonna be OK...that God is still God...and life is wonderful. Why are we still here?...we've passed the chasm so deep and wide and never again will pass that way. We've survived. Why post we here at the eventide?...We post our hearts and the message of deliverance...and we post for THEM.

Edited July 23, 2006 by GrouchoMarxJr

[WordWolf]

THE BRIDGE BUILDER

by Will Allen Dromgode, 1934

An old man, going a lone highway,

Came at the evening, cold and gray,

To a chasm, vast and deep and wide,

Through which was a flowing sullen tide.

The old man crossed in the twilight dim;

But he turned when safe on the other side

And built a bridge to span the tide.

"Old man," said a fellow pilgrim near,

"You are wasting strength with building here.

Your journey will end with the ending day:

You never again must pass this way:

You have crossed the chasm, deep and wide --

Why build you a bridge at eventide?"

The builder lifted his old grey head:

"Good friend, in the path I have come," he said,

"There followeth after me today

A youth whose feet must pass this way.

This chasm that has been naught to me

To that fair-haired youth may a pitfall be.

He, too, must cross in the twilight dim;

Good friend, I am building a bridge for him."

[GrouchoMarxJr]

...and to a great extent, isn't that what the Greaspot Cafe is all about?...Thanks for your work here Paw...it's more significant than what many realize.

...Wordwolf...thank you for posting that poem...

[jardinero]

(((((Groucho)))))

Thanks.

J.

[skyrider]

Remember the old poem "The Bridge Builder"?

After all I've gone through, after all the "recovery" I have achieved, after my heart has been healed and I have a new life...why am I still here?

Because of wonderful people like Bagpipes...If I can be at this place...and keep my heart open for others ...whose hearts are wounded...and extend myself to them...I dunno...I feel like I owe it to them because I am in a position to do exactly that.

Yep.........THAT is why I still post here at GS.

Having crossed the cult chasm and safe on the other side..........the "bridge" is for others who WILL PASS this way. Tens of thousands of posts and threads from hither to yon......spans the chasm of hurt, despair, confusion, helplessness, etc.

I salute you bridge-builders......SALUTE. :)

[ChasUFarley]

I have to wonder if it's a "sense of loss" or a "sense of disappointment"...

Didn't we invest a lot, especially those of you who were in the WC, into our time in TWI?

I know I did:

-left my family on more than once occasion to follow my "dream"

-moved all over the country

-put off going to school

-put off having kids

-never took a career-type job, even when it was offered (not seeking it, in other words) because I might miss twig or a class

-put the ministry first in many things - my choice, of course, but...

...Nonetheless, we did it because we expected great things. We expected the full blessings from God for our committed walk, didn't we? Then, at least in my case, nothing seemed to turn out like it was promised. Where was that stinkin' Promised Land, when you're spending $750/month rent on a dinky apartment and driving a WOW-mobile and have no health insurance and no savings account? Scheesch. Talk about buying a bill of goods - yup, I think I must of had "fool" tattoo'd on my forehead for that one.

I ended up disappointed in my TWI experience and disappointed in myself for buying into it all. The sense of loss I have is more about the time I spent involved with them - I "lost" my 20's - a time that was supposed to be about becoming an established adult. Now I'm almost 40 and am trying to figure out what I want to major in for school, because I regret not finishing school, and have been busy doing many things that most 20-somethings are into or going thru now, only I'm older than that. Then there's some things, like the damage done to the relationships with my family, that there will never be a total re-gain of - it's just too little, too late. C'est la vie, I guess.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not bitter - I'm just being honest. It's where I'm at now, in "my process", as you may say...

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Chas...No doubt you had "fool" tatooed to your forehead...so did I...and I also had "sucker" tatooed right below it.

I was told to bend over and grab my ankles...I finally had enough of THAT abuse ( if you get my meaning :unsure: )...

[I Love Bagpipes]

Make me cry again why don't ya' Groucho and WW.... :)

I'm not sure what kind of tears these are.

Thankful some. Sadness some. I guess bittersweet.

But definitely tears of gratitude for tender hearts. (Getting gushy here....)

Chas, mine is definitely a sense of loss...at the moment.

No one describes it better (for me at this point) than what TheHighWay wrote earlier in this thread (see below).

Hey dmiller....great AG on the pipes!!

Funny, before listening to what you posted I was out on my back screened porch. The rain was beating on the roof....a heavy rain. I pulled out the recorder and sounded out AG....rather nostalgic it was.

A couple hours later I come here and hear it on the bagpipes. Nice indeed.... :)

TheHighWay posted earlier:

"It isn't a sense of loss over leaving twi. It is a sense of loss over the opportunities missed, the chances gone, the time wasted. That's what is being mourned. With leaving twi comes the realization that a chunk of your life died while you weren't looking. And now that you are looking, you have to deal with that death.

And even though I can look at my life as a whole and say, "It's been a pretty darned good life," and truly be thankful, at the same time, there is a sense of bitterness because the choices were MINE, the decisions were MINE, and I was stupid and naive and timid and willing to just go along. I made bad choices.

If the loss of time and possibilities occurred because of conditions outside of my control, it would be easier to swallow the bitterness and regret. The hardest part is reconciling myself to the fact that it didn't have to be the way it was. I did that. And I have to live with the consequences.

But, as they say, "The best revenge is a life well-lived." That's my goal now... getting things back on track. Enjoying every day (every minute) and not sweating the little stuff. Being the best mom, friend, family member, member of society I can, and having a GREAT time doing it."

[waysider]

As I follow this thread, one common theme seems to keep resurfacing. Many of us seem to think we have made lots of bad choices. May I humbly submit for you this thought. We chose to serve GOD, we chose to serve HIS people. We chose to endeaver to make this world a better place. Are these not admirable choices? No, I think the bad choice makers were the ones who chose to exploit our generousity, to exploit our dreams and hopes, and to exploit so many good hearted, dedicated sons of GOD. We are in good company on the exploited son part, if you get my drift. I wonder if Triumph The Insult Dog (David Letterman Show ) might not address them by saying "I Poop On You"! OK OK maybe the quote WAS a bad choice!

[TheHighWay]

Waysider,

Our intentions were good, but the bad choices were to trust the wrong people, to ignore the warning signs, to turn our heads away from what we didn't like, to deny our own gut feelings, to pretend we were happy and prosperous when we weren't...

YES, the bulk of the blame goes to those to took advantage of our good will. That's hard to deal with.

But at the same time we did, at some point, become complicit in our own demise. That's even harder to deal with.

[Twinky]

Does the sense of loss go away? My father died over 30 years ago - and I still miss him. The grief is not so sharp. The sense of loss diminishes. Don't know if it vanishes. Still would rather he was here to talk to.-+

I grieved greatly and for far far too long when I first left TWI. Now after only a few months hanging around in GSC the grief and misery have all but gone. Already it seems like a different life. But there are serious deficits as a result. Need to claim the reward of Job, here: get back more than you lost.

Someone on another thread said, eat the fish and spit out the bones. If there is "fish" that you can eat from your time in TWI, enjoy!

For example, some of the people I knew at TWI post here and friendships have been renewed. Making new friends also. Some of what TWI taught was right - but some was wrong. Still spitting out bones on that.

Any choice anyone makes has an "opportunity cost" - if you do this, you can't do that - not without perhaps a lot of backtracking. If you marry A, you can't marry also B. If you train as a doctor, it's a major upheaval to re-train as a ... fashion designer. If you buy a new pair of shoes, maybe you can't also buy a coffee at GSC.

Is the sense of loss your opportunity cost? Replace what can be replaced. Some is much harder.

Highway

Like your posts. Yes, we were complicit - CONplicit perhaps - as in CONNED.

Belle

Me too. How do you replace some losses?

God through his son JC is the healer of broken hearts (karaoke, anyone?)