For me, when I walked away from twi some eight years ago.....for months on end, I contemplated aspects of this deep sense of loss. Loss of my purpose, my identity, my friends, my direction, loss of time and opportunities, loss of family relationships, of nieces and nephews who I rarely knew, etc. etc......
But now...........that deep sense of loss has faded away.
Imo, I have regained 10-fold from my former situation. I have established a deeper relationship with my Lord, my true identity is intact, new friends and old friends, much greater financial situation (easily 10-fold from my twi-daze), experiencial knowledge replaces any "loss of time"....and family reunions are no longer a thing of the past.
Yes, bagpipes......that deep sense of loss dissipates a little more with each sunshiny day.
[so the sense of loss/the pain decreases over time. There is still pain, but one learns to live joyfully and to count all the blessings. I guess it is all a part of grieving, and I need to allow that in my life. Just sometimes I think I should get over it quicker...that I'm making a big deal out of the "loss."
Pipes,
Yes, it is part of grieving. It takes some a longer time and some a lesser time to get over loss. You will do it in your time. The great thing about it is that you don't have leader$h*t scrutinizing you and telling you how you should feel or not feel. It's just you and God. :)
I've found it is true what they say... it takes at least a full year to grieve. You have to go through the holidays, the seasons, the things you used to do and don't anymore, at least once before the pain really starts to dissipate.
I have dealt with a lot of it, but sometimes if I watch the right movie, in the wrong mood; or if I'm going through a rough spot with work or family; that sort of thing... my emotions will jump me and I will feel so very "wronged". A great sense of loss, and "if only" seem to swallow me up.
But, this happens less often, and with less intensity as time goes by... and mostly as I have been able to start rebuilding my life in a direction I'm really excited about. Looking forward has become a lot more enticing than looking back. (at least most of the time)
Thanks for the responses...all thoughtful and greatly appreciated.
It may sound like I feel loss for leaving TWI and that I'm not happy.
But that is not the case at all.
Actually I have more joy, more freedom, deeper friendships, sweeter times with God, sweeter times with everyone. :)
The sense of loss is regarding the years in...the loss of time, health, dreams, relationships, and other stuff while in TWI. Some of this is just recently coming to light...the "if onlies" as Highway put it. I was chatting with someone today who stated layers are being peeled back...and recently 25+ years of layers were peeled back dramatically fast. With that a flood of memories came in....I guess that is the overwhelming feeling. (BTW: While this person was sharing with me today, Steve Miller was singing "time keeps on slipping into the future" on the radio. Well okay!!)
And I just get in a funk about it sometimes. Yet, at the same time, I recognize how good my life is and has been. I've not been in a war or a concentration camp or slavery...not even close. I've not experienced the trauma many experienced while in TWI. Then I feel "guilty" for feeling loss.
So...their loss, my gain. Time will ease the pain. God is the healer. I don't need leadership approval. A 10-fold return. Petals on a rose...and I'm gonna' bloom. (Shoot, I'm already blooming. :) )
Thanks for the kind words and for taking time to read my rambling.
The sense of loss is regarding the years in...the loss of time, health, dreams, relationships, and other stuff while in TWI. Some of this is just recently coming to light...the "if onlies" as Highway put it. I was chatting with someone today who stated layers are being peeled back...and recently 25+ years of layers were peeled back dramatically fast. With that a flood of memories came in....I guess that is the overwhelming feeling. (BTW: While this person was sharing with me today, Steve Miller was singing "time keeps on slipping into the future" on the radio. Well okay!!)
And I just get in a funk about it sometimes. Yet, at the same time, I recognize how good my life is and has been. I've not been in a war or a concentration camp or slavery...not even close. I've not experienced the trauma many experienced while in TWI. Then I feel "guilty" for feeling loss.
Thanks for your ramblings, Bagpipes - as usual, you've articulated the way I feel...It's been 20 years since we left TWI - miss the friends - but the freedom and rich experiences of real life do make up for so much!
This is my second post , and thank you to all who responded to my first one. One of you mentioned I am the reason you still are here at GSC. That blessed me alot. That sense of loss is real and I am dealing with it now. My wife and I were talking the other night and bitterness came up. I mentioned that I am not bitter at any individual in TWI.
Bitterness towards the " advice and counsel " we received that was misleading for us. This lead to the continued loss of time in our lives. That is what those of us that were in for years. The one thing I do understand is you can't undo the past you just have to move on. It is more exciting ride tho , doing things that you havn't done for years and not being guilty for it. Well that's it for now need to move on for the day. Thanks again for responding and being here to help in the healing process.
It isn't a sense of loss over leaving twi. It is a sense of loss over the opportunities missed, the chances gone, the time wasted. That's what is being mourned. With leaving twi comes the realization that a chunk of your life died while you weren't looking. And now that you are looking, you have to deal with that death.
And even though I can look at my life as a whole and say, "It's been a pretty darned good life," and truly be thankful, at the same time, there is a sense of bitterness because the choices were MINE, the decisions were MINE, and I was stupid and naive and timid and willing to just go along. I made bad choices.
If the loss of time and possibilities occurred because of conditions outside of my control, it would be easier to swallow the bitterness and regret. The hardest part is reconciling myself to the fact that it didn't have to be the way it was. I did that. And I have to live with the consequences.
But, as they say, "The best revenge is a life well-lived." That's my goal now... getting things back on track. Enjoying every day (every minute) and not sweating the little stuff. Being the best mom, friend, family member, member of society I can, and having a GREAT time doing it.
I`ll take you up on that offer sunny F...and thanks.
Agreed, we grieve over the lost opportunities, the shame of making stupid choices ....facing up to the fact that we were ....um ...ulp...wrong....sigh
The COOL thing is....like hiway said.....we have the rest of our lives to exact our revenge by *living well*
Hopefully in honest examination of our mistakes, we can avoid such pit falls in the future, be much wiser :)
Personally, I think that my life is now much richer having suffered the privations brought about by my foolishness...I can truly apreciate and enjoy lifes blessings much more so...than if I had never suffered loss.
It goes away slowly and irregularly, I think. My husband is from a town in NW Ohio, so we go there to visit occasionally. I used to get massively depressed by the time we got to St. Mary's. I used to have panic attacks when we passed a sign for Hwy 29. I was even afraid that someone from HQ would see us and confront us.
See a part of me believed the lies that we were evil, unworthy of fellowshipping with heaven's holiest, that the spirit within me died on April 16, 1996 at 9:04 PM Pacific Standard Time. And I missed the people I loved in that organization. I was very, very insecure.
But now I have a new best friend. His Name is Jesus and He died for me. I'm sure He wonders how on earth I could have believed the nonsense those people taught about Him, but He loves me anyway. And I haven't had anyone who said they represented Him raise a voice to me since, well, April 16, 1996 at 9:04 PM PST.
Sometimes I still feel a sense of loss. But like Job, I'm receiving 10 fold what I lost in every category of my life. You will, too, dear. It just takes time.
For any of you who have recently (or not so recently) left TWI Dr. John Juedes has a page at his site called Recovery from The Way International. I'll admit to not reading them thoroughly, but at first glance the articles do address a lot of issues that may be weighing on your heart and give some good suggestions and explanations on how to cope with some of the issues that you may or may not be going through.
Some of the topics on the site are:
"What's Wrong with the Church?" -- Ex-Wayers commonly distrust and condemn the Christian Church, unknowingly spurning a place of refuge and playing into the hands of the Enemy.
"What's Wrong with Denominations?" -- People criticize denominations, even though they don't understand their true origin, power and place in God's plan.
"What Do I Do Now That I've Left?" -- and -- "Open Letter to Ex-Followers of TWI" -- Practical tips on how to speed your recovery now that you've left TWI.
"What Do Ex-Members Do?" -- Leaving a cult like TWI is important. But what is the next (and just as important) step?
"Helping Loved Ones Leave TWI" -- You know TWI is wrong, but your loved one is still involved. How can you help them to see the truth?
*******
As to your "sense of loss" (which I'm now interpreting as 'sense of lost time'... well, it is what it is. I struggled with that (mostly in the business world) also as I saw those who were younger than me in positions 'above' me not because they were more qualified but because they had been at it longer...
This may not mirror what you're feeling but the fact is that those years are gone and I've found that if I just "got on with it" that it generally took care of itself... what I mean is that as time goes by (post TWI) many of the good qualities I'd developed while in TWI were what came to set me apart from others who hadn't "lost" the time like I had (but had squandered it)... remember I said developed, because I feel I possessed most if not all of those qualities when I went in...
It's natural to feel that you've got to "make up for lost time", it really is... if I think back on when I was going through it, it's kind of like a cartoon runner starting a race... at first there's a big start that results in the runner staying in place 'spinning his wheels' while everyone else moves ahead of him, then he gains traction a little at a time and starts catching up... then he steadily moves up and finally passes the rest in the race like they were standing still, leaving them behind... at least it happened for me that way... and (as I hope I've communicated) it can happen for you...
The only regrets I have about my time in TWI is the time I missed out on hanging out with my family. While I was in TWI, my sister and lived in the same town and never saw each other that much because I was in TWI and she was a Geerite.
Now we live a state apart and wished we lived in the same town again. I'm taking the time I have now to make the best of my time with my family. Some day we will all live closer. That will be sweeeet. :)
And I think John Juedes is a Spin Doctor. For instance, he doesn't allow any opinions other than his own. Doesn't have any use for them.
On the contrary... I have a great sense of humor (just ask me!)
Additionally, I didn't say I disagreed with your idea, just the way you present it... callously.
As to John Juedes, while I don't think I'd go so far as to call him a "spin doctor" (a lable that could be attributed to many, but I assume you assign for it's negative connotation)... of course they're his opinions and ideas and "take" on things...
that's why I stated that they were suggestions and explanations for things... and they, of course, are his viewpoint... his views on cults (and specifically TWI) have been a help to many and I'm sure will help many more... there's information and suggestions at his site that can be gleaned... and (surprise) they're not pro-PFAL or pro-TWI... (but then neither am I)
As to John Juedes, while I don't think I'd go so far as to call him a "spin doctor" (a lable that could be attributed to many, but I assume you assign for it's negative connotation)... of course they're his opinions and ideas and "take" on things...
When someone has opinions and ideas and won't accept anything different, we call that having opinions and ideas and their "take" on things.
When twi has opinions and ideas and won't accept anything different, we call that brainwashing.
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skyrider
A deep question, bagpipes.....
For me, when I walked away from twi some eight years ago.....for months on end, I contemplated aspects of this deep sense of loss. Loss of my purpose, my identity, my friends, my direction, loss of time and opportunities, loss of family relationships, of nieces and nephews who I rarely knew, etc. etc......
But now...........that deep sense of loss has faded away.
Imo, I have regained 10-fold from my former situation. I have established a deeper relationship with my Lord, my true identity is intact, new friends and old friends, much greater financial situation (easily 10-fold from my twi-daze), experiencial knowledge replaces any "loss of time"....and family reunions are no longer a thing of the past.
Yes, bagpipes......that deep sense of loss dissipates a little more with each sunshiny day.
:)
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Nottawayfer
Pipes,
Yes, it is part of grieving. It takes some a longer time and some a lesser time to get over loss. You will do it in your time. The great thing about it is that you don't have leader$h*t scrutinizing you and telling you how you should feel or not feel. It's just you and God. :)
Hugs,
WN
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Tom Strange
heck ILB... it'll all keep unfolding for you like the petals on a rose when it's blooming...
it doesn't happen all at once, TWI was (just about) your entire life and being- that's how they wanted it and that's how they made it...
...and that's how they keep you from leaving and get people to come back...
there is a gap there but as you go along it gets filled with wonderous things...
Trust me on this one...
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pond
I do believe we need to have loss .
lose all to Christ.
many examples of laying down all to follow HIM.
it is a real loss and it is real pain.
What may help you is to figure out exactly what it is your missing.
Is it the daily routine of going to a fellowship and study the bible verses?
Is it friendship|?
Is having a goal and mission that is now gone.
Is it the fact you feel betrayed and cant trust a new chance to do anything eles?
Is it fear you do not trust you know how?
You a thinker pipes .
Now is the time to think. and write and figure out what is bothering you.
You can fill it up again Jesus will help you.
Trust HIM to know what you truly love in life He is your friend and will always care for you.
change is just change and change always involves losing some type of thought process or relationship or routine of what life was.
to reach new higher places to find the sun you have move which means leaving where your at.
and it is always a loss.
that is life.
and that is why we need a God.
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TheHighWay
I've found it is true what they say... it takes at least a full year to grieve. You have to go through the holidays, the seasons, the things you used to do and don't anymore, at least once before the pain really starts to dissipate.
I have dealt with a lot of it, but sometimes if I watch the right movie, in the wrong mood; or if I'm going through a rough spot with work or family; that sort of thing... my emotions will jump me and I will feel so very "wronged". A great sense of loss, and "if only" seem to swallow me up.
But, this happens less often, and with less intensity as time goes by... and mostly as I have been able to start rebuilding my life in a direction I'm really excited about. Looking forward has become a lot more enticing than looking back. (at least most of the time)
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igotout
Their loss, your gain.
You'll see.
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I Love Bagpipes
Thanks for the responses...all thoughtful and greatly appreciated.
It may sound like I feel loss for leaving TWI and that I'm not happy.
But that is not the case at all.
Actually I have more joy, more freedom, deeper friendships, sweeter times with God, sweeter times with everyone. :)
The sense of loss is regarding the years in...the loss of time, health, dreams, relationships, and other stuff while in TWI. Some of this is just recently coming to light...the "if onlies" as Highway put it. I was chatting with someone today who stated layers are being peeled back...and recently 25+ years of layers were peeled back dramatically fast. With that a flood of memories came in....I guess that is the overwhelming feeling. (BTW: While this person was sharing with me today, Steve Miller was singing "time keeps on slipping into the future" on the radio. Well okay!!)
And I just get in a funk about it sometimes. Yet, at the same time, I recognize how good my life is and has been. I've not been in a war or a concentration camp or slavery...not even close. I've not experienced the trauma many experienced while in TWI. Then I feel "guilty" for feeling loss.
So...their loss, my gain. Time will ease the pain. God is the healer. I don't need leadership approval. A 10-fold return. Petals on a rose...and I'm gonna' bloom. (Shoot, I'm already blooming. :) )
Thanks for the kind words and for taking time to read my rambling.
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dmiller
Love your *ramblings*. ;)
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ChattyKathy
I second that!
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T-Bone
Thanks for your ramblings, Bagpipes - as usual, you've articulated the way I feel...It's been 20 years since we left TWI - miss the friends - but the freedom and rich experiences of real life do make up for so much!
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sportsfan
This is my second post , and thank you to all who responded to my first one. One of you mentioned I am the reason you still are here at GSC. That blessed me alot. That sense of loss is real and I am dealing with it now. My wife and I were talking the other night and bitterness came up. I mentioned that I am not bitter at any individual in TWI.
Bitterness towards the " advice and counsel " we received that was misleading for us. This lead to the continued loss of time in our lives. That is what those of us that were in for years. The one thing I do understand is you can't undo the past you just have to move on. It is more exciting ride tho , doing things that you havn't done for years and not being guilty for it. Well that's it for now need to move on for the day. Thanks again for responding and being here to help in the healing process.
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likeaneagle
It was our seat in life....serving with the whole life you can give...
thats my loss and the closeness of friends and how we loved each other...thru tough times.
It was my sole purpose....to know I was doing God's will..:)
But I can still care and love..
I just have to keep hard heartedness away..because of the lies..
ILB, we have to get together, come hell or high water..
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Sunnyfla
ILB :)
When I left 15 years ago it was VERY hard and lonely :( That pain and lonelyness lurked around for a long
time. I had really good friends in twi, just as most of us did. But, as time goes on those feelings started to
faid away. Then you begin to notice that emptiness gets filled again with new and better things. I now strive
for the good within myself and others. That sence of loss for me was not having that relationship with God
anymore. So, I corrected that and life became sweet
In my line of work I see how short life can be. Just like in that country song "Live Like you were Dying"
Don't look back because there's so much ahead.
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TheHighWay
It isn't a sense of loss over leaving twi. It is a sense of loss over the opportunities missed, the chances gone, the time wasted. That's what is being mourned. With leaving twi comes the realization that a chunk of your life died while you weren't looking. And now that you are looking, you have to deal with that death.
And even though I can look at my life as a whole and say, "It's been a pretty darned good life," and truly be thankful, at the same time, there is a sense of bitterness because the choices were MINE, the decisions were MINE, and I was stupid and naive and timid and willing to just go along. I made bad choices.
If the loss of time and possibilities occurred because of conditions outside of my control, it would be easier to swallow the bitterness and regret. The hardest part is reconciling myself to the fact that it didn't have to be the way it was. I did that. And I have to live with the consequences.
But, as they say, "The best revenge is a life well-lived." That's my goal now... getting things back on track. Enjoying every day (every minute) and not sweating the little stuff. Being the best mom, friend, family member, member of society I can, and having a GREAT time doing it.
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oldiesman
Then what the heck are you complaining about? Good lawd.
As Craig would say, quit complaining and GET B-U-S-Y. :o
:lol:
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Sunnyfla
:blink:
LOL... I think my post needs to be somewhere else. Sorry, my bad
I think I'll just go and have
another cup of java. But before I go, I'll just add to this subject. All those years lost was quite upseting and
all the opportunities missed because of being in twi
I guess what's done is done. At least we've
picked up ourselves, went back to school, started new careers, started new marriages, kids, new friends.
What more can we ask for?
Anyone care for some coffee? :D
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rascal
I`ll take you up on that offer sunny F...and thanks.
Agreed, we grieve over the lost opportunities, the shame of making stupid choices ....facing up to the fact that we were ....um ...ulp...wrong....sigh
The COOL thing is....like hiway said.....we have the rest of our lives to exact our revenge by *living well*
Hopefully in honest examination of our mistakes, we can avoid such pit falls in the future, be much wiser :)
Personally, I think that my life is now much richer having suffered the privations brought about by my foolishness...I can truly apreciate and enjoy lifes blessings much more so...than if I had never suffered loss.
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Watered Garden
ILB,
It goes away slowly and irregularly, I think. My husband is from a town in NW Ohio, so we go there to visit occasionally. I used to get massively depressed by the time we got to St. Mary's. I used to have panic attacks when we passed a sign for Hwy 29. I was even afraid that someone from HQ would see us and confront us.
See a part of me believed the lies that we were evil, unworthy of fellowshipping with heaven's holiest, that the spirit within me died on April 16, 1996 at 9:04 PM Pacific Standard Time. And I missed the people I loved in that organization. I was very, very insecure.
But now I have a new best friend. His Name is Jesus and He died for me. I'm sure He wonders how on earth I could have believed the nonsense those people taught about Him, but He loves me anyway. And I haven't had anyone who said they represented Him raise a voice to me since, well, April 16, 1996 at 9:04 PM PST.
Sometimes I still feel a sense of loss. But like Job, I'm receiving 10 fold what I lost in every category of my life. You will, too, dear. It just takes time.
WG
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Tom Strange
For any of you who have recently (or not so recently) left TWI Dr. John Juedes has a page at his site called Recovery from The Way International. I'll admit to not reading them thoroughly, but at first glance the articles do address a lot of issues that may be weighing on your heart and give some good suggestions and explanations on how to cope with some of the issues that you may or may not be going through.
Some of the topics on the site are:
"What's Wrong with the Church?" -- Ex-Wayers commonly distrust and condemn the Christian Church, unknowingly spurning a place of refuge and playing into the hands of the Enemy.
"What's Wrong with Denominations?" -- People criticize denominations, even though they don't understand their true origin, power and place in God's plan.
"What Do I Do Now That I've Left?" -- and -- "Open Letter to Ex-Followers of TWI" -- Practical tips on how to speed your recovery now that you've left TWI.
"What Do Ex-Members Do?" -- Leaving a cult like TWI is important. But what is the next (and just as important) step?
"Helping Loved Ones Leave TWI" -- You know TWI is wrong, but your loved one is still involved. How can you help them to see the truth?
*******
As to your "sense of loss" (which I'm now interpreting as 'sense of lost time'... well, it is what it is. I struggled with that (mostly in the business world) also as I saw those who were younger than me in positions 'above' me not because they were more qualified but because they had been at it longer...
This may not mirror what you're feeling but the fact is that those years are gone and I've found that if I just "got on with it" that it generally took care of itself... what I mean is that as time goes by (post TWI) many of the good qualities I'd developed while in TWI were what came to set me apart from others who hadn't "lost" the time like I had (but had squandered it)... remember I said developed, because I feel I possessed most if not all of those qualities when I went in...
It's natural to feel that you've got to "make up for lost time", it really is... if I think back on when I was going through it, it's kind of like a cartoon runner starting a race... at first there's a big start that results in the runner staying in place 'spinning his wheels' while everyone else moves ahead of him, then he gains traction a little at a time and starts catching up... then he steadily moves up and finally passes the rest in the race like they were standing still, leaving them behind... at least it happened for me that way... and (as I hope I've communicated) it can happen for you...
********
OM, your callousness never ceases to amaze me.
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oldiesman
You have no sense of humor.
And I think John Juedes is a Spin Doctor. For instance, he doesn't allow any opinions other than his own. Doesn't have any use for them.
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Nottawayfer
The only regrets I have about my time in TWI is the time I missed out on hanging out with my family. While I was in TWI, my sister and lived in the same town and never saw each other that much because I was in TWI and she was a Geerite.
Now we live a state apart and wished we lived in the same town again. I'm taking the time I have now to make the best of my time with my family. Some day we will all live closer. That will be sweeeet. :)
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Tom Strange
On the contrary... I have a great sense of humor (just ask me!)
Additionally, I didn't say I disagreed with your idea, just the way you present it... callously.
As to John Juedes, while I don't think I'd go so far as to call him a "spin doctor" (a lable that could be attributed to many, but I assume you assign for it's negative connotation)... of course they're his opinions and ideas and "take" on things...
that's why I stated that they were suggestions and explanations for things... and they, of course, are his viewpoint... his views on cults (and specifically TWI) have been a help to many and I'm sure will help many more... there's information and suggestions at his site that can be gleaned... and (surprise) they're not pro-PFAL or pro-TWI... (but then neither am I)
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oldiesman
I might agree with your assessment had I not added the smileys.
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oldiesman
When someone has opinions and ideas and won't accept anything different, we call that having opinions and ideas and their "take" on things.
When twi has opinions and ideas and won't accept anything different, we call that brainwashing.
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