The statement "lots of the stuff I teach is not original" is from the Way Living in Love, published 1972.
Could wierwille have been ANY MORE VAGUE...?????
And further..............this kind of statement from a man who received a doctorate..???? More and more proof is surfacing that vpw was a salesman, at best.
on the one hand, i appreciate you sticking to your guns.
but on the other hand, i think you're not being honest with yourself. you've taken a position that you're not willing to reconsider, even in light of mountains of evidence to the contrary. it is, i'm afraid, EXACTLY like what we did in twi: refuse to believe the evidence of our own eyes and ears because we'd already made up our "minds" on the subject. (i put that in quotes because "made up our mind" implies thinking, when we had in fact, stopped thinking long before.)
that doesn't make you a dummy. but i wouldn't say it's the smartest thing you could do, either.
Isn't this the same man that told me and a girl riding with him on the motorcoach once (1978) that "there is no more gold left in Fort Knox" and "our country will go down the tubes if the prime interest rate goes above 14%". Yeah, it is. No sources were cited and the distinct impression given to us impressionable youth was "Wow!! Heavy Revy from the Wizard of OZ!!".
Remember this was pre-Internet and it was difficult to cross check things in the Ohio cornfields where we lived.
I suppose there are some folks who haven't heard or read this stuff.
First, I didn't call you a dummy. I don't think you're a dummy, either. I think you're hard-headed...but so am I...so I gotta love that in you...or I'd have to hate myself.
Second, I never read any of the books or collaterals or rag articles or even the piffle syllabus. Every time I tried, I'd get pi$$ed off with the insane 'logic' and throw the pos across the room. I skimmed things, yes...so that I wouldn't have to use my brain.
Third, I took piffle once and only once...in 1977...when the intermediate was combined with the foundational. I took no other class, seminar, whatever offered by twi.
I guess it does John. But way back in the '70's we had no reason to disbelieve Wierwille when he said "lots of the stuff I teach is not original", and that he "sought enlightenment from men of God scattered across the continent." He did say those things. We did read those things, before the Information Age. Things easy to understand, that are self explanatory, without all the spin. So simple, that dummies need not err therein.
I guess it does John. But way back in the '70's we had no reason to disbelieve Wierwille when he said "lots of the stuff I teach is not original", and that he "sought enlightenment from men of God scattered across the continent." He did say those things. We did read those things, before the Information Age. Things easy to understand, that are self explanatory, without all the spin. So simple, that dummies need not err therein.
OM, even you would have to agree that there's a big difference between "lots of the stuff I teach is not original" and "lots of the stuff I've written is copied word for word from other men's books"...
To get picky (and why not): Unless the teaching were by revelation, it wouldn't be 'original' because it would have to have been read or researched somewhere... but to slap your name on books as "the author" when most of what you did was copy passages from other books is quite different.
So... IMO... the "lots of stuff I teach is not original" argument doesn't fly here...
O.K. I hope I don't derail but sometimes we old folks get lost in the moment. Back in about '71 or '72 I got witnessed to by some kids who seemed pretty excited about twig fellowship. I went to acouple of fellowships and was really blown away by SIT.(o.k. ,one of the young ladies caught my eye but that's another story). After 2 or 3 twig meetings I decided to try this SIT stuff myself. Nobody told me you had to have a class so I just went ahead and did it. Next day I tell the TL about it. HE gives me a "lift list" and a WAY MAG. This sounds remotely like my vasectomy experiance but again I digress.First up, Joe B. Leever needs a car. I envision him driving a shiney new Caddy and SIT. Wow, this is easy! Next, I envision this "DR." from the WAY RAG as he stands behind a podium about to expound,but just then he grins from ear to ear, flips me the bird and mouths those two little words we all know too well.( I kid you not this really happened). My TL says it's probably just unrenewed mind and to strive to block it out. In retrospect, I wonder if that middle finger was't really his thumb and those words really "Goin' my WAY?"
Rascal------------Thanks for responding to my post. I'm glad we can find some humour in all this after all we've seen. "I kid you not" was what Jack Paar (host of the Tonite Show before Johnny Carson) used to say when he was about to say something he felt strongly about. When this actually happened (and it did, "I kid you not"), I was a complete novice in SIT. I heard others do it in believer's meetings so I just thought it would be o.k. if I spoke and interpreted. The twig leader was not there and I told him about it the next day. Back then people had believer's meetings wherever and whenever they could. Remember I knew very little about TWI at this point. Heck! I was still trying to figure out what TWIG meant. I I thought maybe it was an acronym. What's my point? I had only SIT minimally (like a couple of hours ) and had never heard of revelation. I'm not saying this was revelation,but if it was,it shoots a hole in page ten of the AC sillybus where it is stated that we must (not should) SIT daily before GOD will consider us worthy of revelation. That image stuck in my mind for a long, long time like a bad wreck on the highway. HEY! "bad wreck on the high WAY" I think a feel a good blues song comin' on! "BBBBad wreck on the high WAY OHyeaah!"
I dunno I remember specifically VP saying in PFAL that God Almighty gave him revelation and a snow storm as a sign to prove that God was talking to him and telling VP that God would teach VP the word like it hadn't been known since the 1st century church and some lady would call VP in his office late at night because she knew VP would be there working the word and she would ask him what God taught him lately and he would tell her, thus starting out on VP's promise to God to teach it as God was teaching it to him......and those statements in PFAL trumph any one liners in the book Way living in Love any day.
But then I call a train wreck a train wreck and a derailment a derailment while one or two others may call it getting to know the neighbors with a big bang.
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skyrider
Could wierwille have been ANY MORE VAGUE...?????
And further..............this kind of statement from a man who received a doctorate..???? More and more proof is surfacing that vpw was a salesman, at best.
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sprawled out
oldies,
on the one hand, i appreciate you sticking to your guns.
but on the other hand, i think you're not being honest with yourself. you've taken a position that you're not willing to reconsider, even in light of mountains of evidence to the contrary. it is, i'm afraid, EXACTLY like what we did in twi: refuse to believe the evidence of our own eyes and ears because we'd already made up our "minds" on the subject. (i put that in quotes because "made up our mind" implies thinking, when we had in fact, stopped thinking long before.)
that doesn't make you a dummy. but i wouldn't say it's the smartest thing you could do, either.
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igotout
Oldies, I guess it goes to credibility.
Isn't this the same man that told me and a girl riding with him on the motorcoach once (1978) that "there is no more gold left in Fort Knox" and "our country will go down the tubes if the prime interest rate goes above 14%". Yeah, it is. No sources were cited and the distinct impression given to us impressionable youth was "Wow!! Heavy Revy from the Wizard of OZ!!".
Remember this was pre-Internet and it was difficult to cross check things in the Ohio cornfields where we lived.
Gold Status in USA
We just ignored his conspiratorial "revelation" and had another beer and admired the cool coach and chatted with Mrs. about more sane subjects.
IMO we were misled at best. But I guess it was our own fault.
I'm workin here, not much time for lame debates with the disillusioned.
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CoolWaters
First, I didn't call you a dummy. I don't think you're a dummy, either. I think you're hard-headed...but so am I...so I gotta love that in you...or I'd have to hate myself.
Second, I never read any of the books or collaterals or rag articles or even the piffle syllabus. Every time I tried, I'd get pi$$ed off with the insane 'logic' and throw the pos across the room. I skimmed things, yes...so that I wouldn't have to use my brain.
Third, I took piffle once and only once...in 1977...when the intermediate was combined with the foundational. I took no other class, seminar, whatever offered by twi.
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oldiesman
I guess it does John. But way back in the '70's we had no reason to disbelieve Wierwille when he said "lots of the stuff I teach is not original", and that he "sought enlightenment from men of God scattered across the continent." He did say those things. We did read those things, before the Information Age. Things easy to understand, that are self explanatory, without all the spin. So simple, that dummies need not err therein.
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Tom Strange
OM, even you would have to agree that there's a big difference between "lots of the stuff I teach is not original" and "lots of the stuff I've written is copied word for word from other men's books"...
To get picky (and why not): Unless the teaching were by revelation, it wouldn't be 'original' because it would have to have been read or researched somewhere... but to slap your name on books as "the author" when most of what you did was copy passages from other books is quite different.
So... IMO... the "lots of stuff I teach is not original" argument doesn't fly here...
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CoolWaters
OM...that's funny...if you're not serious about applying to vp's and twi's words what God applies to the bible...
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waysider
O.K. I hope I don't derail but sometimes we old folks get lost in the moment. Back in about '71 or '72 I got witnessed to by some kids who seemed pretty excited about twig fellowship. I went to acouple of fellowships and was really blown away by SIT.(o.k. ,one of the young ladies caught my eye but that's another story). After 2 or 3 twig meetings I decided to try this SIT stuff myself. Nobody told me you had to have a class so I just went ahead and did it. Next day I tell the TL about it. HE gives me a "lift list" and a WAY MAG. This sounds remotely like my vasectomy experiance but again I digress.First up, Joe B. Leever needs a car. I envision him driving a shiney new Caddy and SIT. Wow, this is easy! Next, I envision this "DR." from the WAY RAG as he stands behind a podium about to expound,but just then he grins from ear to ear, flips me the bird and mouths those two little words we all know too well.( I kid you not this really happened). My TL says it's probably just unrenewed mind and to strive to block it out. In retrospect, I wonder if that middle finger was't really his thumb and those words really "Goin' my WAY?"
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rascal
Wow waysider...that is the most convincing account I have ever read that would inspire me to believe sit might be real or beneficial....lol
Gave you the finger eh? If that isn`t an apropriate summary of what *dr.* did to us, to God and to christiandom
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waysider
Rascal------------Thanks for responding to my post. I'm glad we can find some humour in all this after all we've seen. "I kid you not" was what Jack Paar (host of the Tonite Show before Johnny Carson) used to say when he was about to say something he felt strongly about. When this actually happened (and it did, "I kid you not"), I was a complete novice in SIT. I heard others do it in believer's meetings so I just thought it would be o.k. if I spoke and interpreted. The twig leader was not there and I told him about it the next day. Back then people had believer's meetings wherever and whenever they could. Remember I knew very little about TWI at this point. Heck! I was still trying to figure out what TWIG meant. I I thought maybe it was an acronym. What's my point? I had only SIT minimally (like a couple of hours ) and had never heard of revelation. I'm not saying this was revelation,but if it was,it shoots a hole in page ten of the AC sillybus where it is stated that we must (not should) SIT daily before GOD will consider us worthy of revelation. That image stuck in my mind for a long, long time like a bad wreck on the highway. HEY! "bad wreck on the high WAY" I think a feel a good blues song comin' on! "BBBBad wreck on the high WAY OHyeaah!"
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skyrider
Bumped to the front......
Someone was asking..... :)
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Ham
Hitchhiker or carjacking.. I think maybe both.
He hitchhiked to Calgary, via Stiles and Bullinger, and carjacked Leonard's vehicle to drive back.
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Really Mandii
I dunno I remember specifically VP saying in PFAL that God Almighty gave him revelation and a snow storm as a sign to prove that God was talking to him and telling VP that God would teach VP the word like it hadn't been known since the 1st century church and some lady would call VP in his office late at night because she knew VP would be there working the word and she would ask him what God taught him lately and he would tell her, thus starting out on VP's promise to God to teach it as God was teaching it to him......and those statements in PFAL trumph any one liners in the book Way living in Love any day.
But then I call a train wreck a train wreck and a derailment a derailment while one or two others may call it getting to know the neighbors with a big bang.
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