and No she wasn`t exagerating...that is EXACTLY how someone referred to excathedra in the forums for sharing about abuse and what that destructive sob did to her ...damn them
Also ... folks who shared about abuses suffered in twi whom can no longer be referred to as liars and exagerators......are often refered to as simply seeking attention now...
that isn`t it......
It is humiliating and embarrassing to lay your soul out for everyone to see .... reveal your secret shame and pain.......only to have some insensitive wart indicate that you are a liar or whiney....or somehow were weak, or wanted/asked for/deserved what you recieved <_<
The reason I don't want all of this to 'go round' again is beautifully illustrated by one of our residents: Oldiesman.
Why do these folks need the special abuse that OM happily (it seems) throws their way?
You can read all of the same abuse by OM in the other threads... he's always there to disparage anyone who makes a claim of any sort of sexual impropriety...
Oldiesman, you know, I have defended you many times in the past and will continue to do so because I feel you get a lot of crap from people that you don't always deserve. But your again and again...etc post, come on dude! That was uncalled for. I thought you were a little better than that kind of post.
Oh well, let me say that it just struck me as hilarious that Rascal wouldn't expect folks to share it yet again when its be shared again and again and again in the past. Now if folks don't want to share it again, fine. But don't blame me. But if they don't, some others pipe in and say it's because they've been degraded or maligned by folks like me. Bull. Stop using me as your damn scapegoat.
BTW, I don't recall EVER saying anything derogatory about someone's first hand accounts of sexual abuse. Go back to the threads and see for yourself. If there's something there, I'll apologize.
BTW, I don't recall EVER saying anything derogatory about someone's first hand accounts of sexual abuse. Go back to the threads and see for yourself. If there's something there, I'll apologize.
George, was that the same woman who said she was giving VPW repeated b-jobs for a couple of years? If that's the same one, all I can say is, after the first "assault" she should have ran and got out of there quick, if she didn't want to be there.
You mention rape. I've seen no demonstrable evidence of rape...rape is a very serious crime where someone is physically forced to do something against their will. But the same here as in the plagiarism charge. VPW taught people for 40 years...if he was raping, kidnapping, detaining, drugging, etc etc. why didn't he get thrown in jail and sued over the span of 40 years? Come on. I think I heard one claim that VPW had "thousands of women". That's a lot. So if he was raping hundreds of women do you think that maybe, perhaps, possibly, one or two of those women would have called the police and had him arrested? I do. Maybe they didn't, because it wasn't.
I make a distinction between harassment and rape. IMHO, harassment is where someone in power asks someone to have sex...but rape is when someone in power physically forces themselves on someone else against their will.
To the best of my knowledge, there is a legal and moral distinction between the two.
And before you go off half-cocked about you weren't seeing/reading '1st hand stories' or some other form of dodging...
There's more....VERY MUCH MORE...this is just all I have time for right now.
Thanks CW, I forgot all that stuff. But no, these links you've referenced were not first hand stories, seems to me they were general discussions of the topic and about others who never posted, so I respectfully disagree with your assessment.
As I recall any first hand accounts of this nature were treated respectfully by me ... I even mentioned sometime in a later post that I believed excathedra's story of her drugging experience, even though I expressed in a prior post that I found that sort of thing very hard to believe. That should count for something.
OM...an apology from you would count for something.
Even if you don't think you did anything to apologize for, people you need to apologize to feel that you have.
So just apologize already...if you wanna.
Otherwise, don't even offer...especially if you're gonna put all sorts of qualifiers on an apology. I have the gut feeling you're a better man than that...or at least have a better man inside of you just waiting to come out into the sunlight.
I believe the point of the scripture you use as examples was to confront the person to effect change and to allow the church members know what was going on.
I believe it was a teaching about how to deal with issues within the church. I think it applies to the church today as well.
the difference is no one can confront vpw now nor can any confrontation effect change or speak knowledge of an incident , why because frankly the man is dead, and no one can go to the meeting even with two or three witness and speak of anything. a vital part of those instructions is the fact the one being accused is involved in the procedure. I believe the point was to allow problems to be dealt with without gossip or any question of what was being said about another. it can not be done now people can accuse all they want But it is not going to be done from a point of reference of that scripture as he is dead.
Ex says in her post she told her wow sister and the behaviour was taken as normal for a MOG or to that reasoning.. I also saw much put off that was wrong and hurt people ,cover ups and lies and accusation was common.
so at that point the church was not functioning at bible stnadards, and I often doubt twi ever did hold to bible standards of accountability .
twi did not deal with situation in a biblical manner, many times, they claimed they did but warped verses to meet their own agendas.
I think like and eagle is right this should be front page news.
Maybe it would help those who feel they need to share their accounts of being victimized by writng a report of sorts and compliling a record and then it can be easily linked to as their own first hand testimony.
then these ugly threads of who is who and who isnt would not have any question of
:what happened to individuals., and what they themselves have to say about it.
It would not have to be "rehashed at all." you could just go to the article or testimony and read it first hand from the victim .
I do not think any poster should write about anything they do not chose to but frankly these posters have spoken at Greaspot about their issue and it is alot easier to just write it one time for the record (like catcups stuff and her experience as a reference on the front page)
that type of organization would make it easier to access the information that posters feel strongly about sharing, without the need for this she said he said and I feel and and I think and all the other controversy whenever these type of questions are asked.
then these ugly threads of who is who and who isnt would not have any question of
:what happened to individuals., and what they themselves have to say about it.
It would not have to be "rehashed at all." you could just go to the article or testimony and read it first hand from the victim .
Oh I get it now...
It's very important to make life easier for lurkers, side-show addicts, curious busybodies, manipulative and mean-spirited gossipers, and, well, just everybody ya know....
My thinking was it would make it easier for the victims, as they would be able to tell their story one time only.. and then not have to engage in any threads that would be difficult for them to speak on.
their testimony would be writen down and they would not have to defend or explain it ever again.
seems to me that would be eaiser for those who want to know what these testimonies have to say, and for those who want to share it.
Don't act so innocent, dear, and I won't get so dramatic.
Thing is, I've already said why that wouldn't be a good idea imo...makes it too easy for the creeps to make GSC about their creepiness.
I know exactly what would happen, too...'cause I did that once upon a time.
Maybe you don't remember in this incarnation of yourself, but it was not a good scene at all...not at all...and doing that painted a big target right in the middle of my avatar that said, "Here I am! Make me your scapegoat!"
And if people really truly wanted to do such a thing...
Have you ever heard of the "My Story" forum?
Yeah. That forum where people can do such a thing...and others can go read a their whim...
how is writing and answering threads as they come up any easier?
at least with it all written down a poster would not have to answer question or engage in a further discussion if the chose not to.
catcup has done a nice thing with her testimonies and she is busy often away from posting for a length of time yet her story adds much to the mission of grease spot.
Because of the types of threads these questions generate and how one another tends to react to them is the painful part I would think and when one doesnt have to engage and still get their testimony read i believe it would be a great service to grease spot, and allow them to not have to be a "scape goat" , your word not mine.
And, this, dear friends, is why some people have just quit trying. Many of the folks who CAN give first hand accounts no longer frequent the cafe.
I hope this thread alone has given some indication of why people should to search out the stories on their own. The search feature does work very well and, because of that, in respect for those who don't want their stories pasted up front, one should be willing to do a little bit of legwork to get answers.
Why is it we think nothing of typing in www.dictionary.com or googling something when we want an answer, but when we come to a site like GSpot, we seem to expect everyone to drop everything and answer our questions or provide links to past threads FOR us? :unsure: Am I the only one who searches for a subject before posting a question about it? I do that on every message board / website I participate in. I thought it was just plain common sense to do that.
There are many, many, many first hand accounts on these boards - one only needs to take a little bit of time to look for them. GSpot is here to serve but that doesn't mean one should expect to be spoon fed.
of course they do not. and frankly I do not blame them.
but to feel as though it "should be told" as many do , it would be easier , than trying to sort through all what others may think or feel or chose, to say about their experience.
I have often gotten the impression that those who want to write of their experience do so because they feel it should be told and feel strongly about warning others of the type of danger they felt hurt them.
Many claim that is why they post on greaspot to warn others , or for those still involved or those thinking about getting involved.
to educate to share what happened to them.
What is this idea of "spoon fed" I thought it was a mission or the reason for some to post.
why not make it as plain as possible and mostly for the one who is sharing so they do not have to rehash or be asked the same thing over and over.
For me, it's simpler and less painful if and when I do post something, it can be forgotten under the weight of sheer volume...and I don't have to look at it every time I come to GSC....and I don't have to think about the nastiness if I don't want to.
Just step outside of your head moment and think about this...
i'm in agreement with cool, here. i know it might be difficult to understand, but it's very different when you talk about things if and when you feel you can. but to see it in front of your face each time you come here would be horrible
i don't know how else to explain it
some days i want to delete every single word i've ever said and other days i want to tell it all again
it's probably more about my screwed-up-ness than anything else
i'm not on a mission really except maybe to save myself
So what your saying is you feel a need to have a testimony.. it is important to you
YET
you do not want to reread and be held accoutable to what you wrote .
yeah ok .
cool waters to each their own .
you would not have to reread your testimony or have to engage in any type of discusssion if it was just written down for all to see(and you feel it is something you want to share of course)
you could ignore what you wrote and never read it again and not engage in threads that would be difficult for you to engage in.
seems like a solution to your trouble with writing it and your need to share the story .
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Bluzeman
O.J. was guilty?
:unsure:
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rascal
and No she wasn`t exagerating...that is EXACTLY how someone referred to excathedra in the forums for sharing about abuse and what that destructive sob did to her ...damn them
Also ... folks who shared about abuses suffered in twi whom can no longer be referred to as liars and exagerators......are often refered to as simply seeking attention now...
that isn`t it......
It is humiliating and embarrassing to lay your soul out for everyone to see .... reveal your secret shame and pain.......only to have some insensitive wart indicate that you are a liar or whiney....or somehow were weak, or wanted/asked for/deserved what you recieved <_<
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Tom Strange
The reason I don't want all of this to 'go round' again is beautifully illustrated by one of our residents: Oldiesman.
Why do these folks need the special abuse that OM happily (it seems) throws their way?
You can read all of the same abuse by OM in the other threads... he's always there to disparage anyone who makes a claim of any sort of sexual impropriety...
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oldiesman
Oh bullhockey.
After it being said so many times in the past, now you're blaming me and using me as a scapegoat if it's not re-hashed all over again?
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Bluzeman
Oldiesman, you know, I have defended you many times in the past and will continue to do so because I feel you get a lot of crap from people that you don't always deserve. But your again and again...etc post, come on dude! That was uncalled for. I thought you were a little better than that kind of post.
Rick
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oldiesman
Oh well, let me say that it just struck me as hilarious that Rascal wouldn't expect folks to share it yet again when its be shared again and again and again in the past. Now if folks don't want to share it again, fine. But don't blame me. But if they don't, some others pipe in and say it's because they've been degraded or maligned by folks like me. Bull. Stop using me as your damn scapegoat.
BTW, I don't recall EVER saying anything derogatory about someone's first hand accounts of sexual abuse. Go back to the threads and see for yourself. If there's something there, I'll apologize.
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CoolWaters
You asked...
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...post&p=7624
George, was that the same woman who said she was giving VPW repeated b-jobs for a couple of years? If that's the same one, all I can say is, after the first "assault" she should have ran and got out of there quick, if she didn't want to be there.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...post&p=7613
You mention rape. I've seen no demonstrable evidence of rape...rape is a very serious crime where someone is physically forced to do something against their will. But the same here as in the plagiarism charge. VPW taught people for 40 years...if he was raping, kidnapping, detaining, drugging, etc etc. why didn't he get thrown in jail and sued over the span of 40 years? Come on. I think I heard one claim that VPW had "thousands of women". That's a lot. So if he was raping hundreds of women do you think that maybe, perhaps, possibly, one or two of those women would have called the police and had him arrested? I do. Maybe they didn't, because it wasn't.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...post&p=7775
At the present time, I do not believe the drug/imprisonment/rape stories. Maybe someday I will, but right now I don't.
George, what does "coerced" mean? Were they drugged? imprisoned? physically forced?
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...post&p=7780
I make a distinction between harassment and rape. IMHO, harassment is where someone in power asks someone to have sex...but rape is when someone in power physically forces themselves on someone else against their will.
To the best of my knowledge, there is a legal and moral distinction between the two.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...post&p=7818
There are others who knew him just as well, who say the drug stories are bogus. So what does a person like me believe?
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Tom Strange
nope... not 'using' you or 'blaming' you... just pointing out the obvious...
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CoolWaters
******************************
And before you go off half-cocked about you weren't seeing/reading '1st hand stories' or some other form of dodging...
There's more....VERY MUCH MORE...this is just all I have time for right now.
*****************************
And one more that wasn't yours, but exemplifies what people are faced with when telling their stories here:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=241747
George: The devil's still courting Rascal; he's already had you in the motorcoach and passed you on to HA. But, enjoy.
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oldiesman
Thanks CW, I forgot all that stuff. But no, these links you've referenced were not first hand stories, seems to me they were general discussions of the topic and about others who never posted, so I respectfully disagree with your assessment.
As I recall any first hand accounts of this nature were treated respectfully by me ... I even mentioned sometime in a later post that I believed excathedra's story of her drugging experience, even though I expressed in a prior post that I found that sort of thing very hard to believe. That should count for something.
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CoolWaters
OM...an apology from you would count for something.
Even if you don't think you did anything to apologize for, people you need to apologize to feel that you have.
So just apologize already...if you wanna.
Otherwise, don't even offer...especially if you're gonna put all sorts of qualifiers on an apology. I have the gut feeling you're a better man than that...or at least have a better man inside of you just waiting to come out into the sunlight.
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pond
Tom
I believe the point of the scripture you use as examples was to confront the person to effect change and to allow the church members know what was going on.
I believe it was a teaching about how to deal with issues within the church. I think it applies to the church today as well.
the difference is no one can confront vpw now nor can any confrontation effect change or speak knowledge of an incident , why because frankly the man is dead, and no one can go to the meeting even with two or three witness and speak of anything. a vital part of those instructions is the fact the one being accused is involved in the procedure. I believe the point was to allow problems to be dealt with without gossip or any question of what was being said about another. it can not be done now people can accuse all they want But it is not going to be done from a point of reference of that scripture as he is dead.
Ex says in her post she told her wow sister and the behaviour was taken as normal for a MOG or to that reasoning.. I also saw much put off that was wrong and hurt people ,cover ups and lies and accusation was common.
so at that point the church was not functioning at bible stnadards, and I often doubt twi ever did hold to bible standards of accountability .
twi did not deal with situation in a biblical manner, many times, they claimed they did but warped verses to meet their own agendas.
I think like and eagle is right this should be front page news.
Maybe it would help those who feel they need to share their accounts of being victimized by writng a report of sorts and compliling a record and then it can be easily linked to as their own first hand testimony.
then these ugly threads of who is who and who isnt would not have any question of
:what happened to individuals., and what they themselves have to say about it.
It would not have to be "rehashed at all." you could just go to the article or testimony and read it first hand from the victim .
I do not think any poster should write about anything they do not chose to but frankly these posters have spoken at Greaspot about their issue and it is alot easier to just write it one time for the record (like catcups stuff and her experience as a reference on the front page)
that type of organization would make it easier to access the information that posters feel strongly about sharing, without the need for this she said he said and I feel and and I think and all the other controversy whenever these type of questions are asked.
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oldiesman
I apologize to excathedra for doubting her story at one time.
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CoolWaters
Oh I get it now...
It's very important to make life easier for lurkers, side-show addicts, curious busybodies, manipulative and mean-spirited gossipers, and, well, just everybody ya know....
Screw those who lived through it all...
Yeah, that's the ticket...
Just screw 'em!
Again.
They'll never notice.
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pond
Cool water you do not have to use such drama.
My thinking was it would make it easier for the victims, as they would be able to tell their story one time only.. and then not have to engage in any threads that would be difficult for them to speak on.
their testimony would be writen down and they would not have to defend or explain it ever again.
seems to me that would be eaiser for those who want to know what these testimonies have to say, and for those who want to share it.
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CoolWaters
Don't act so innocent, dear, and I won't get so dramatic.
Thing is, I've already said why that wouldn't be a good idea imo...makes it too easy for the creeps to make GSC about their creepiness.
I know exactly what would happen, too...'cause I did that once upon a time.
Maybe you don't remember in this incarnation of yourself, but it was not a good scene at all...not at all...and doing that painted a big target right in the middle of my avatar that said, "Here I am! Make me your scapegoat!"
And if people really truly wanted to do such a thing...
Have you ever heard of the "My Story" forum?
Yeah. That forum where people can do such a thing...and others can go read a their whim...
:blink:
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pond
how is writing and answering threads as they come up any easier?
at least with it all written down a poster would not have to answer question or engage in a further discussion if the chose not to.
catcup has done a nice thing with her testimonies and she is busy often away from posting for a length of time yet her story adds much to the mission of grease spot.
Because of the types of threads these questions generate and how one another tends to react to them is the painful part I would think and when one doesnt have to engage and still get their testimony read i believe it would be a great service to grease spot, and allow them to not have to be a "scape goat" , your word not mine.
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CoolWaters
Nobody has to respond to anything as it is...do they?
I mean, they're not responding now...
Gawd I hope this thread ends up in the Soap Opera forum where it belongs.
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Belle
*sigh*
And, this, dear friends, is why some people have just quit trying. Many of the folks who CAN give first hand accounts no longer frequent the cafe.
I hope this thread alone has given some indication of why people should to search out the stories on their own. The search feature does work very well and, because of that, in respect for those who don't want their stories pasted up front, one should be willing to do a little bit of legwork to get answers.
Why is it we think nothing of typing in www.dictionary.com or googling something when we want an answer, but when we come to a site like GSpot, we seem to expect everyone to drop everything and answer our questions or provide links to past threads FOR us? :unsure: Am I the only one who searches for a subject before posting a question about it? I do that on every message board / website I participate in. I thought it was just plain common sense to do that.
There are many, many, many first hand accounts on these boards - one only needs to take a little bit of time to look for them. GSpot is here to serve but that doesn't mean one should expect to be spoon fed.
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pond
of course they do not. and frankly I do not blame them.
but to feel as though it "should be told" as many do , it would be easier , than trying to sort through all what others may think or feel or chose, to say about their experience.
I have often gotten the impression that those who want to write of their experience do so because they feel it should be told and feel strongly about warning others of the type of danger they felt hurt them.
Many claim that is why they post on greaspot to warn others , or for those still involved or those thinking about getting involved.
to educate to share what happened to them.
What is this idea of "spoon fed" I thought it was a mission or the reason for some to post.
why not make it as plain as possible and mostly for the one who is sharing so they do not have to rehash or be asked the same thing over and over.
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CoolWaters
In your mind. Remember that, pond.
For me, it's simpler and less painful if and when I do post something, it can be forgotten under the weight of sheer volume...and I don't have to look at it every time I come to GSC....and I don't have to think about the nastiness if I don't want to.
Just step outside of your head moment and think about this...
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excathedra
i'm in agreement with cool, here. i know it might be difficult to understand, but it's very different when you talk about things if and when you feel you can. but to see it in front of your face each time you come here would be horrible
i don't know how else to explain it
some days i want to delete every single word i've ever said and other days i want to tell it all again
it's probably more about my screwed-up-ness than anything else
i'm not on a mission really except maybe to save myself
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pond
So what your saying is you feel a need to have a testimony.. it is important to you
YET
you do not want to reread and be held accoutable to what you wrote .
yeah ok .
cool waters to each their own .
you would not have to reread your testimony or have to engage in any type of discusssion if it was just written down for all to see(and you feel it is something you want to share of course)
you could ignore what you wrote and never read it again and not engage in threads that would be difficult for you to engage in.
seems like a solution to your trouble with writing it and your need to share the story .
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excathedra
why does everything always have to be black and white, either / or ?
it's complex, to me anyway
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