Golly, if you call that capitalizing on others' dissatisfaction, it sounds like we were being bad in some way.
Weeeell, if you consider luring people in to that snake pit of lies, deception, black mail, rape and in some cases even death with the bait of that *teaching and preaching* .... a *bad thing*...
It may all depend on ones outlook ... for example, there is much benefit and beauty in this world. But if all one does is magnify the illness, murder, rape, death, destruction of the world ... one can't appreciate the beauty. The evil dominates.
I have to admit, it does sound like I may be whitewashing and dismissing the evil of twi. But honestly I really don't mean to do that.
While considering this issue, I can't help but think of the religion of my youth, and so many many folks still adhere to the benefits of it, even though I never appreciated it ... and now I say "to each his own".
I can't point fingers and condemn others for wanting to adhere to an imperfect system, like the religion of my youth, or twi. If it ultimately brings them some benefits, I say to each his own.
Well, OM, each will have his/her own, won't they? I don't begrudge anybody what they choose in life until what they choose starts overstepping boundaries.
Every boundary I had in twi was not just overstepped, but erased and redrawn to suit twi's needs...until finally I had no boundaries at all where twi was concerned.
The bottom line cause of this was my personal dissatisfaction within myself.
We each had to buy into twi to make twi work. That's a no-brainer, imo. I'm not here to berate, belittle, chastise, condemn, judge, or anything like that at all. I'm not pointing fingers at individuals.
My only purpose is to expose the mentality for what it was/is...so that anybody caught up in the maelstrom might just see something that will help them get out of that maelstrom.
When you come along and whitewash things (and you do whitewash things, OM) as just another day in the life of a Christian, you do devalue the truth of what really went on for far more of us than not.
When doing so, OM, you exemplify the mentality. So please don't stop posting like that! It's good for people to see an example in action.
But also please recognize that your defense of the mentality is also a defense of the actions...like it or not. So you're going to stir up trouble for yourself. I'm aware that you probably don't care, or, maybe more correctly, you may even see it as 'proof' of something you should be doing in life. I dunno. That's for your own personal thoughts.
Whatever, your words do tend to denigrate others in the threads in which you participate...by your very obvious technique of making everything personal and twisting everything into a cat fight.
But whatever you think you need to float your boat, I'm not complaining.
When one is young, they search, they try different things and roles in finding out who they are and what they want to be and do.
TWI took many of us who were searching and told us that God had a plan for us, with Christ in us, we would do great things for God. In the WC, I always had "leadership" telling me, give up this, sell that, do this, why? Because God had "great things in store" for me, and others. With Christ in us, everyone from young leaf to WC had a purpose.
As I grew older, I came to realize this was B.S.
I had to ask myself, what does God really want from us? He wants our hearts. He wants an exchange, if we give him our lives, he will give us his - that's all he asks really.
I know Paul tells us to be content with what we have and be thankful for it. This doesn't mean we can't have ambition, but if life, circumstances, education, background etc. mean you will never be "rich," "powerful," famous, etc., well, that's o.k.
I also realized, the only people who can do "great" things in this world, are either military leaders, or very wealthy people, and politicians. The rest of us, have neither the resources, nor a great, almost sociopathic lust for power (which can allow a poor person, say a Hitler, Saddam, Stalin, etc. to go from poverty to great power, or, just to run for president), nor money to effect great "change" in the world.
As I mused on this, driving into work one day, I was skipping channels and heard a preacher preaching - which never happens. But this morning, he asked his fellow Christians: Can you be happy if you are never rich, if you have a job, housing, a car - a regular life? If you never do a great thing for God, if you aren't "called" to a minstry, in other words, can you be happy and content being a regular person?
That was very freeing for me, because I had been taught that if I wasn't doing "great" things for God, I was surely a failure. I realized that most Christians are average Joes! We are not of the world, therefore the world will never love us, live walking with God, do your best and he will walk with us in the midst. He was telling me it was ok to be "regular." That took a weight and condemnation of of me, which had been there courtesy of TWI.
Tell your daughter, what does her heart say? Does she need to return to school? What is it, really, she would like to do? She's still young enough to make it happen. Maybe she needs to volunteer and help people less fortunate, she may regain a thankfulness for the life she does have. Give it to God and tell her to just live.
Again, this isn't about anyone being 'bad' in some way.
This is about how twi capitalized upon personal dissatisfaction...drive, ambition, whatever you want to call it.
People who are satisfied within themselves don't usually care to even listen to people offering 'what I have'. There's no need.
B-b-b-ut CW... can't someone be "satisfied within themselves" (or think they are) and still notice "something" over there that I don't have within me but would like???
Nowhutahmeen?
oh... and I'm not arguing with you (at least I don't mean to)... I just posted the earlier post because it was how I felt way back when... I know it was different for all... and I haven't taken anything personally, just wanted to add my take... if I missed the point of it all, then nevermind
Well, OM, each will have his/her own, won't they? I don't begrudge anybody what they choose in life until what they choose starts overstepping boundaries.
Every boundary I had in twi was not just overstepped, but erased and redrawn to suit twi's needs...until finally I had no boundaries at all where twi was concerned.
The bottom line cause of this was my personal dissatisfaction within myself.
You can continue to put blame twi, but consider that you used twi to tranquilize your own personal dissatisfaction with yourself. I did to.
You can continue to put blame twi, but consider that you used twi to tranquilize your own personal dissatisfaction with yourself. I did to.
OM... that's a low blow... and in case you're keeping tabs on the rest of us: I NEVER "used twi to tranquilize (my) own personal dissatisfaction with (my)self"...
If that's what YOU did, so be it... don't project your warpedness on others... it's so shallow and transparent...
TWI took many of us who were searching and told us that God had a plan for us, with Christ in us, we would do great things for God. In the WC, I always had "leadership" telling me, give up this, sell that, do this, why? Because God had "great things in store" for me, and others. With Christ in us, everyone from young leaf to WC had a purpose.
As I grew older, I came to realize this was B.S.
You may believe it is B.S., but you know what, we just don't know yet. Everything hasn't been played out.
I think we all may be very surprised what God has in store for all of us.
B-b-b-ut CW... can't someone be "satisfied within themselves" (or think they are) and still notice "something" over there that I don't have within me but would like???
Nowhutahmeen?
I don't know, Tom. Really.
In my current life, I have realized that the majority of the 'negative' situations I find myself in have all stemmed from me not being satisfied within myself...me wanting something 'more' than what I have...me thinking that there's something wrong with me that needs to be fixed.
It's a real eye-opener for me to realize this about myself. So I've been looking within to figure out how I built such a habit pattern of thinking in my life.
Between the conversation with my daughter last evening and what I read today on ExC's thread, it hit me that before twi, I believed that whatever I needed and/or wanted in life was within me and within my abilities to have and/or obtain.
Then I searched within myself for the hook that pulled me into twi. It was a nagging suspicion that my mother and father were right about me: I was going to crash and burn because of my own arrogance.
The very first time I attended twig I heard a SNS tape with vpw teaching/preaching. I made fun of his voice. I never really heard the teaching/preaching at all because I kept thinking, "This guy sounds like one of the Munchkins in The Wizard of Oz!" and it cracked me up so much that I couldn't think about anything else. (I was 16, OK? Probably stoned a little bit, too. )
Anyway, boy oh boy did I get reamed!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course, I wasn't listening to the reaming...because, OMG, they were making it even funnier with their defense of the Munchkin Preacher Man. Then one of the girls said something my parents always said to me. That sobered me up and got my attention.
It took 3 years to convince me that I was wrong and needed piffle. 3 years of rape. 3 years of bearing false witness against me in a court of law. 3 years of being told exactly what was wrong with me. 3 years of being squeezed like a juice orange of all that was good, nourishing, and healthy within me. Then the final blow came when my twig leader told me that I'd never measure up to Craig or anything close if I didn't even take piffle.
But that first hook was the one that took. Everything else was just reeling me in. And that hook is the same hook that has been used on me all of these years. Until I finally saw it for what it was...just today.
So I really cannot answer your question...because now I see things totally differently than I've seen them in over 3 decades. It's new to me. So I just don't know.
oh... and I'm not arguing with you (at least I don't mean to)... I just posted the earlier post because it was how I felt way back when... I know it was different for all... and I haven't taken anything personally, just wanted to add my take... if I missed the point of it all, then nevermind
I know, buddy. I don't take too much as arguing these days. Disagreeing is healthy. And, for what it's worth, I'd just have to laugh if you were actually arguing with me...'cause you're sooooooooo cute!
Oh...one more thing...OM and I have this funky relationship these days...he says what he wants, I say what I want, and we go our merry way. It's better than hating him...or him hating me.
We got in for whatever-search for truth, need for affirmation, want of love.
We stayed because we were told (in any form or fashion your experience was) that there was NOTHING ELSE OUT "THERE". We were told we were dissatified with our lives before, (fill in your own blanks) and that we would be dissatified if we left.
"The Word, the Word, nothing but the Word"!!! We all heard it. How can it be interpreted any other way? It was bred into us.
And it did leave that nagging thought in the back of our heads that life as we now know it may be exactly what they said it would be-unfulfilled.
Yeah, pretty sly. TWI's not the only one that does it-hell, watch any commercial and you see the same implication. But I don't remember commercial jingles from twenty-five years ago-how come I remember VP's and Craig's voices?
I had to ask myself, what does God really want from us? He wants our hearts. He wants an exchange, if we give him our lives, he will give us his - that's all he asks really.
I know Paul tells us to be content with what we have and be thankful for it. This doesn't mean we can't have ambition, but if life, circumstances, education, background etc. mean you will never be "rich," "powerful," famous, etc., well, that's o.k.
Yeah. I've learned that, too. Very different perspective from twi's. More peaceful within, imo.
As I mused on this, driving into work one day, I was skipping channels and heard a preacher preaching - which never happens. But this morning, he asked his fellow Christians: Can you be happy if you are never rich, if you have a job, housing, a car - a regular life? If you never do a great thing for God, if you aren't "called" to a minstry, in other words, can you be happy and content being a regular person?
That was very freeing for me, because I had been taught that if I wasn't doing "great" things for God, I was surely a failure. I realized that most Christians are average Joes! We are not of the world, therefore the world will never love us, live walking with God, do your best and he will walk with us in the midst. He was telling me it was ok to be "regular." That took a weight and condemnation of of me, which had been there courtesy of TWI.
I'm just now starting to grasp this...and as I type I'm feeling myself become more and more comfortable with myself.
Tell your daughter, what does her heart say? Does she need to return to school? What is it, really, she would like to do? She's still young enough to make it happen. Maybe she needs to volunteer and help people less fortunate, she may regain a thankfulness for the life she does have. Give it to God and tell her to just live.
TYVM! I'll put it to her as from you and not me...that way she'll hear it. LOL
Once the carrot was gone I felt unsatisfied again and lost.
Yes! That's what I was trying to say. I see this over and over again with the coming out, returning to reality process.
Yeah, pretty sly. TWI's not the only one that does it-hell, watch any commercial and you see the same implication. But I don't remember commercial jingles from twenty-five years ago-how come I remember VP's and Craig's voices?
Maybe because if those who want you to buy their products were as nasty and controlling as vpw et al, they'd not have any customers...?
I dunno. Good question...especially since I do remember many commercial jingles from even 40 years ago...
OK Oldies, I'll bite. When you refer to doing "great" things in life possibly to come, what exactly are you referring to? This life here on earth? If so, I think most of us are baby boomers, we've slowed down - what are you specificallly referring to? What are you thinking of that may "surprise" us?
Or, are you referring to the gathering, when it will be awesome to meet face to face and dwell in a new heaven and earth, which to us earthbound, physical dimension beings, we cannot even begin to comprehend - I agree, that will be surprising.
As of now, I am thankful for what God has given me and strive to be a blessing to those around me - if there's anything else God would have me do, I'm sure he'll let me know, but I do not see myself doing anything "great for God" as TWI said we would do.
Referring to the Third Heaven and Earth, basically.
I think what you and I did according to his Word, in twi, will not be forgotten. Even if it seems now like we threw our time and money down the drain. No. God keeps the score and the game isn't over.
I totally agree Oldies - I think our hearts were right, we loved God and wanted to serve him and TWI seemed the best way. I also believe it will count for something.
In the words of Tim McGraw (or the songwriter he sings for........)
"Everybody just wants to get high,
Sitting and watching the world go by
We all are searching for love and meaning in our lives
We follow the roads that lead us.....................
To Drugs or JESUS."
I always followed the roads to Jesus. Unfortunately, TWI was the wrong road. So, when it got to the point that I wanted to do drugs (lol) I took the fork in the road and got off that beaten path.
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CoolWaters
You know what? If anybody wants to take this personally, so be it. If the shoe fits....
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rascal
Weeeell, if you consider luring people in to that snake pit of lies, deception, black mail, rape and in some cases even death with the bait of that *teaching and preaching* .... a *bad thing*...
I`d have to say yeah...it was.
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oldiesman
It may all depend on ones outlook ... for example, there is much benefit and beauty in this world. But if all one does is magnify the illness, murder, rape, death, destruction of the world ... one can't appreciate the beauty. The evil dominates.
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rascal
PREEEECISELY!!! That describes twi to a *T*
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oldiesman
I have to admit, it does sound like I may be whitewashing and dismissing the evil of twi. But honestly I really don't mean to do that.
While considering this issue, I can't help but think of the religion of my youth, and so many many folks still adhere to the benefits of it, even though I never appreciated it ... and now I say "to each his own".
I can't point fingers and condemn others for wanting to adhere to an imperfect system, like the religion of my youth, or twi. If it ultimately brings them some benefits, I say to each his own.
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CoolWaters
Well, OM, each will have his/her own, won't they? I don't begrudge anybody what they choose in life until what they choose starts overstepping boundaries.
Every boundary I had in twi was not just overstepped, but erased and redrawn to suit twi's needs...until finally I had no boundaries at all where twi was concerned.
The bottom line cause of this was my personal dissatisfaction within myself.
I see that sentiment repeated here again and again. Maybe not in so many words, but in posts like QT's here: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=251670 .
We each had to buy into twi to make twi work. That's a no-brainer, imo. I'm not here to berate, belittle, chastise, condemn, judge, or anything like that at all. I'm not pointing fingers at individuals.
My only purpose is to expose the mentality for what it was/is...so that anybody caught up in the maelstrom might just see something that will help them get out of that maelstrom.
When you come along and whitewash things (and you do whitewash things, OM) as just another day in the life of a Christian, you do devalue the truth of what really went on for far more of us than not.
When doing so, OM, you exemplify the mentality. So please don't stop posting like that! It's good for people to see an example in action.
But also please recognize that your defense of the mentality is also a defense of the actions...like it or not. So you're going to stir up trouble for yourself. I'm aware that you probably don't care, or, maybe more correctly, you may even see it as 'proof' of something you should be doing in life. I dunno. That's for your own personal thoughts.
Whatever, your words do tend to denigrate others in the threads in which you participate...by your very obvious technique of making everything personal and twisting everything into a cat fight.
But whatever you think you need to float your boat, I'm not complaining.
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Sunesis
I get exactly what you're saying Coolwaters.
When one is young, they search, they try different things and roles in finding out who they are and what they want to be and do.
TWI took many of us who were searching and told us that God had a plan for us, with Christ in us, we would do great things for God. In the WC, I always had "leadership" telling me, give up this, sell that, do this, why? Because God had "great things in store" for me, and others. With Christ in us, everyone from young leaf to WC had a purpose.
As I grew older, I came to realize this was B.S.
I had to ask myself, what does God really want from us? He wants our hearts. He wants an exchange, if we give him our lives, he will give us his - that's all he asks really.
I know Paul tells us to be content with what we have and be thankful for it. This doesn't mean we can't have ambition, but if life, circumstances, education, background etc. mean you will never be "rich," "powerful," famous, etc., well, that's o.k.
I also realized, the only people who can do "great" things in this world, are either military leaders, or very wealthy people, and politicians. The rest of us, have neither the resources, nor a great, almost sociopathic lust for power (which can allow a poor person, say a Hitler, Saddam, Stalin, etc. to go from poverty to great power, or, just to run for president), nor money to effect great "change" in the world.
As I mused on this, driving into work one day, I was skipping channels and heard a preacher preaching - which never happens. But this morning, he asked his fellow Christians: Can you be happy if you are never rich, if you have a job, housing, a car - a regular life? If you never do a great thing for God, if you aren't "called" to a minstry, in other words, can you be happy and content being a regular person?
That was very freeing for me, because I had been taught that if I wasn't doing "great" things for God, I was surely a failure. I realized that most Christians are average Joes! We are not of the world, therefore the world will never love us, live walking with God, do your best and he will walk with us in the midst. He was telling me it was ok to be "regular." That took a weight and condemnation of of me, which had been there courtesy of TWI.
Tell your daughter, what does her heart say? Does she need to return to school? What is it, really, she would like to do? She's still young enough to make it happen. Maybe she needs to volunteer and help people less fortunate, she may regain a thankfulness for the life she does have. Give it to God and tell her to just live.
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Tom Strange
B-b-b-ut CW... can't someone be "satisfied within themselves" (or think they are) and still notice "something" over there that I don't have within me but would like???
Nowhutahmeen?
oh... and I'm not arguing with you (at least I don't mean to)... I just posted the earlier post because it was how I felt way back when... I know it was different for all... and I haven't taken anything personally, just wanted to add my take... if I missed the point of it all, then nevermind
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oldiesman
You can continue to put blame twi, but consider that you used twi to tranquilize your own personal dissatisfaction with yourself. I did to.
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Tom Strange
OM... that's a low blow... and in case you're keeping tabs on the rest of us: I NEVER "used twi to tranquilize (my) own personal dissatisfaction with (my)self"...
If that's what YOU did, so be it... don't project your warpedness on others... it's so shallow and transparent...
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oldiesman
I didn't say YOU did, I was expressing an opinion about something CW wrote.
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Tom Strange
I can read. I know that's what you did... and it was a LOW BLOW...
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oldiesman
Nah.
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oldiesman
You may believe it is B.S., but you know what, we just don't know yet. Everything hasn't been played out.
I think we all may be very surprised what God has in store for all of us.
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Tom Strange
I know I'm hoping for a new golf game (and clubs to go along with it)...
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CoolWaters
I don't know, Tom. Really.
In my current life, I have realized that the majority of the 'negative' situations I find myself in have all stemmed from me not being satisfied within myself...me wanting something 'more' than what I have...me thinking that there's something wrong with me that needs to be fixed.
It's a real eye-opener for me to realize this about myself. So I've been looking within to figure out how I built such a habit pattern of thinking in my life.
Between the conversation with my daughter last evening and what I read today on ExC's thread, it hit me that before twi, I believed that whatever I needed and/or wanted in life was within me and within my abilities to have and/or obtain.
Then I searched within myself for the hook that pulled me into twi. It was a nagging suspicion that my mother and father were right about me: I was going to crash and burn because of my own arrogance.
The very first time I attended twig I heard a SNS tape with vpw teaching/preaching. I made fun of his voice. I never really heard the teaching/preaching at all because I kept thinking, "This guy sounds like one of the Munchkins in The Wizard of Oz!" and it cracked me up so much that I couldn't think about anything else. (I was 16, OK? Probably stoned a little bit, too.
)
Anyway, boy oh boy did I get reamed!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course, I wasn't listening to the reaming...because, OMG, they were making it even funnier with their defense of the Munchkin Preacher Man. Then one of the girls said something my parents always said to me. That sobered me up and got my attention.
It took 3 years to convince me that I was wrong and needed piffle. 3 years of rape. 3 years of bearing false witness against me in a court of law. 3 years of being told exactly what was wrong with me. 3 years of being squeezed like a juice orange of all that was good, nourishing, and healthy within me. Then the final blow came when my twig leader told me that I'd never measure up to Craig or anything close if I didn't even take piffle.
But that first hook was the one that took. Everything else was just reeling me in. And that hook is the same hook that has been used on me all of these years. Until I finally saw it for what it was...just today.
So I really cannot answer your question...because now I see things totally differently than I've seen them in over 3 decades. It's new to me. So I just don't know.
I know, buddy.
I don't take too much as arguing these days. Disagreeing is healthy. And, for what it's worth, I'd just have to laugh if you were actually arguing with me...'cause you're sooooooooo cute! 
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CoolWaters
Oh...one more thing...OM and I have this funky relationship these days...he says what he wants, I say what I want, and we go our merry way. It's better than hating him...or him hating me.
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topoftheworld
Geez-three pages in four hours! Whew!
We got in for whatever-search for truth, need for affirmation, want of love.
We stayed because we were told (in any form or fashion your experience was) that there was NOTHING ELSE OUT "THERE". We were told we were dissatified with our lives before, (fill in your own blanks) and that we would be dissatified if we left.
"The Word, the Word, nothing but the Word"!!! We all heard it. How can it be interpreted any other way? It was bred into us.
And it did leave that nagging thought in the back of our heads that life as we now know it may be exactly what they said it would be-unfulfilled.
Yeah, pretty sly. TWI's not the only one that does it-hell, watch any commercial and you see the same implication. But I don't remember commercial jingles from twenty-five years ago-how come I remember VP's and Craig's voices?
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CoolWaters
Yeah. I've learned that, too. Very different perspective from twi's. More peaceful within, imo.
I'm just now starting to grasp this...and as I type I'm feeling myself become more and more comfortable with myself.TYVM! I'll put it to her as from you and not me...that way she'll hear it. LOL
Yes! That's what I was trying to say. I see this over and over again with the coming out, returning to reality process.
Maybe because if those who want you to buy their products were as nasty and controlling as vpw et al, they'd not have any customers...?
I dunno. Good question...especially since I do remember many commercial jingles from even 40 years ago...
:blink:
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Tom Strange
"plop plop fizz fizz"
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Sunesis
OK Oldies, I'll bite. When you refer to doing "great" things in life possibly to come, what exactly are you referring to? This life here on earth? If so, I think most of us are baby boomers, we've slowed down - what are you specificallly referring to? What are you thinking of that may "surprise" us?
Or, are you referring to the gathering, when it will be awesome to meet face to face and dwell in a new heaven and earth, which to us earthbound, physical dimension beings, we cannot even begin to comprehend - I agree, that will be surprising.
As of now, I am thankful for what God has given me and strive to be a blessing to those around me - if there's anything else God would have me do, I'm sure he'll let me know, but I do not see myself doing anything "great for God" as TWI said we would do.
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oldiesman
Referring to the Third Heaven and Earth, basically.
I think what you and I did according to his Word, in twi, will not be forgotten. Even if it seems now like we threw our time and money down the drain. No. God keeps the score and the game isn't over.
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Sunesis
I totally agree Oldies - I think our hearts were right, we loved God and wanted to serve him and TWI seemed the best way. I also believe it will count for something.
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bliss
In the words of Tim McGraw (or the songwriter he sings for........)
"Everybody just wants to get high,
Sitting and watching the world go by
We all are searching for love and meaning in our lives
We follow the roads that lead us.....................
To Drugs or JESUS."
I always followed the roads to Jesus. Unfortunately, TWI was the wrong road. So, when it got to the point that I wanted to do drugs (lol) I took the fork in the road and got off that beaten path.
Thank you Jesus!
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