I love all the new experiences I am having since our exit.
I am doing things, and enjoying things I never thought was possible in TWI.
I think for me, Proverbs 3 has been the key verse to help me in the "leaving" process.
"Trust in the Lord with ALL thy heart and LEAN NOT unto THY own understanding; in ALL your ways, acknowledge HIM and HE will direct your path."
I knew this verse while in TWI, but the impact it had on my after we left, is profound.
I had to learn to trust GOD, not a man, not a ministry, not a class, not a book, not an ideology, not a group, not MYSELF!
I had to give it all the Him, because we did NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO! In all our ways, gave it to HIM. "What is your pleasure Lord, what do you want us to do?" Down on our knees for the first time in our lives!
And wouldn't you know it........................we ended up at the right place at the right time, to give us just what we needed, and it has changed our lives!
Everyone learns, grows, needs, different things at different times.
For us, we needed to stay in the fire, so to speak. When we didn't know what we were doing, had nowhere to go, (spiritually), it was the hardest, darkest time for us. Hubby, was depressed sort of. Not himself.
Nor was I.
But trusting in the Lord to bring us from darkness to light proved true for us.
It is not in a church, a class or person..................
It is our Lord and God that we put our trust, and we are right where He wants us. To give HIM glory. Not ourselves, not others, not a ministry, not a class, not a way of thinking.
Now I can say, I have liberty. I am "living" this abundant life I always wanted. It has nothing to do with money. It has to do with life and what I am going to do for HIM.
For me it was very very difficult & at first impossible to go to any church. My trust was broken. It took a long time to build it back up. Additionally, they were so restrictive that it really hit me hard emotionally. I had no friends, my marriage broke up, I was isolated & it was scary. Practically I had to break habits like reporting in to someone constantly, giving all my $$$$ away that I didn't need to pay bills with, etc.
I was also curious about other religions & lifestyles. I got so sick of hearing them bash the Catholic Church, bash homosexuals, bash anyone who did not agree with them. I began to really see first hand that I do not care what religion someone has. If it works for them & they are a better person as a result, then great! I do not have to agree doctrinally with someone, but I can learn from them in some ways & can respect their choice & the way they follow it. Likewise, whether I agree or disagree with someone being homosexual, I'm not going to judge them on that basis & assume they're evil, bad, etc.
I saw their hatred in a totally new light. I had left them but stayed in my then marriahe, hoping it could work. Shortly after, I suffered a stroke. I was told it happened because I walked out from under God's protection. Oh they came over & brought food, etc. but not without stressing that it was ONLY because my then husband was a true believer & they only cared about his well being spiritually & hence were doing all this for him.
That event really woke me up. I finally realized I had to get out. With the help of a very good co-worker who was a Christian I was able to get help & get out for good. I found strong support & finally saw there were still good people out there.
Today, I am Interfaith, married to a man who shares in my beliefs & does not love me only if I share his. I read things for myself & that includes other texts than the KJV, etc. I appreciate people more & have really learned how hard it is to be secluded & discriminated against. So now I'm much stronger.
It was hard, but worth the fight to get out, get strong & get moving with life!!!!!
I've not been sure where to put this, but it has been on my mind since I left TWI, and still weighs heavily on my thoughts...so maybe that means it's part of the sorting out process?
Anyway, I remember when "witnessing and outreach" took a definite turn. We were counseled by our leadership that we needed to "effectively target and strike the most humble hearts" when it came to our outreach. We were to concentrate on "Friends, Family, and Co-workers."
Does anyone else remember this? I'm looking at some notes I took from that teaching right now, and that's when our fellowship began the "weekly outreach" events, and we were all to carry around little witnessing cards, tallying the numbers of our week on them. The categories were:
Spoke the word
Invited to Fellowship
Followed up (with a call)
and brought to fellowship
undersheparded/took class
And we had to turn in these little 3x5 cards every Thursday night at HF. I remember, and see from my notes the following: "The people we are looking for are the salt of the earth. Don't waste your time with the wealthy, or the highly educated, they are too proud, too hard-hearted to hear the truth. Their God is already money and will not have ears to hear you. Also, do not concentrate on the very poor and indigent, they are slothful and lazy and have completely given over to the devil spirits that surround this entire corrupt welfare culture we live in."
I was a good member in standing. I took my notes. (I rarely looked at them again), but this socio-economic .... set off my internal BS detectors even then.
Even THEN, I knew that to make such claims and pervert scripture to back it up was most likely a way to merely bring in the most ABS Dollars per capita, per person.
Of COURSE we shouldn't witness to the educated...they are already trained to question. Of COURSE we shouldn't witness to the wealthy without "a substantial open door", because they probably already have financial planning in place and are unlikely to submit to a lay-person's parroted ideas of fiscal responsibility. Go for the lower middle class, we were told. Go for the mechanic, the divorced, or as I thought then, the people harried, under the gun, living on the edge of a gaping hole of debt that doesn't care if it swallows them alive.
We were told that those people would be the only ones meek enough to receive The Word, but how callous and calculated was that teaching, as I now look back on it.
What hurts me now, is that we were regular "teachers", my husband and I, in our HF. We never aspired to be corps, though I was pulled aside multiple times and told my husband had better step up and get his thinking right on leadership because I would be held responsible for "squandering my personal evangelical gift ministry." Erm...what?
How could they have wanted us in corps? I was the most disobediant, loathesome cow and he was and is an autocrat. (Though, reading things now, I can see that's a quality highly to be prized in leadership candidates.)
I suppose what's really got me in a twist tonight, is that I did just what I was told. I witnessed where I was told (except to my friends and family, because I was embarrassed, and I have no co-workers, I work from home). But those outreach events? Until they insisted on 2x2, I used to go hide. When we went 2 x 2, I intentionally steered away from people.
I was not afraid to witness, it was just that when I did, people listened to me and apparently "my percentages" of witness to fellowship attendance was around 50%. I felt like I was scamming them for their money. I was afraid I would later have to admit to someone that I'd brought them to a bad place. I was terrified people would know what my husband was really like. All those reasons.
I know there are people I witnessed to that are still In. I am having trouble with my role in that. I realise I didn't make them drink the kool-aid, but Yeesh, I certainly brought them to the table, poured the cup, and handed it to them.
I tend not to focus on guilt these days...but those encounters still haunt me.
When I was in TWI, I considered my former life to be of the "old man." Thus, I gave it little thought and considered my previous experiences to be inconsequential.
Lately, all these memories keep popping up, as though my life before TWI was so repressed that now it has to come back up.
Now I see it as a continuity - before TWI, during TWI, and after TWI. All of it is my life and all of it is valid.
quote: "…Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man that he didn't already have…" by America. Besides that verse having the classic double-negative no-no - I think it describes one aspect of my experience with TWI. I've always had a brain – for as long as I can remember - before, during and after TWI
Hmm. Last time I watched the Wizard of Oz I noticed that during the final showdown in the witch's castle it was the scarecrow, the one who supposedly didn't have a brain, who figured out that by cutting or releasing the rope would cause the chandellier to fall on the witch and some of her servants.
No, TWI didn't give us anything except the benefit of their knowledge. If none of that knowledge is worth nothing to you now, so be it. It's still worth something to me. Knowing that Christ's finished work made me complete, righteous, forgiven. Knowing that I have access to God 24/7. Some people who've gone to church all their lives still don't know this stuff.
But TWI crossed the line. Their attitude became "we taught you this, therefore we own you". The "witch's castle" still exists in New Knoxville, but many of us have long released the rope.
I don't often disagree with Johniam but here I must respectfully do so. :o ;)
But TWI crossed the line. Their attitude became "we taught you this, therefore we own you".
We had choices in twi, and if one volunteered, it was one's choice. If one freely availed, one freely availed. TWI at one time was very serious about its message and if one agreed with and volunteered to communicate that message, it was that individuals' choice.
The way I see it, and I feel strongly about this ... twi didn't own anybody any more than the person allowed them to. If one jumped in head first that was their choice and shouldn't be degraded because that choice was to communicate the things of God to others.
No, TWI didn't give us anything except the benefit of their knowledge.
But I also received much benefit from sweet fellowship with others.
quote: "…Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man that he didn't already have…" by America. Besides that verse having the classic double-negative no-no - I think it describes one aspect of my experience with TWI. I've always had a brain – for as long as I can remember - before, during and after TWI
Hmm. Last time I watched the Wizard of Oz I noticed that during the final showdown in the witch's castle it was the scarecrow,the one who supposedly didn't have a brain, who figured out that by cutting or releasing the rope would cause the chandellier to fall on the witch and some of her servants.
No, TWI didn't give us anything except the benefit of their knowledge. If none of that knowledge is worth nothing to you now, so be it. It's still worth something to me. Knowing that Christ's finished work made me complete, righteous, forgiven. Knowing that I have access to God 24/7. Some people who've gone to church all their lives still don't know this stuff.
But TWI crossed the line. Their attitude became "we taught you this, therefore we own you". The "witch's castle" still exists in New Knoxville, but many of us have long released the rope.
Thanks for that correction - the Tin Man wanted a heart, scarecrow wanted brains...And I agree with your point on the benefit of knowledge - we all have a different opinion of what's valid in PFAL - part of the sorting out process of what we each think is good and bad...And I agree with your saying they crossed the line with their ownership attitude...I should have had the courage of the lion to think for myself ..."put 'em up, put 'em up!"
quote: Their attitude became "we taught you this, therefore we own you".
I'm not talking about 1980, I'm talking about 1994. Before that year, there were pockets of TWI people who acted like they owned you, but it became ministry policy that year. Craig said it best...."This thing is going to be done right if I have to coordinate every fellowship in the US."
I think you know that I feel as strongly as you do that it was never a "cult" that "made us do their bidding" just so they could get rich. Don't have a lot of respect for that position. I walked in on my own and walked out pretty much the same way.
In 1994 they started kicking people out for being in debt, being suspected homos, being unproductive, they would send people to your house to look in your underwear drawers for objects of evil, they'd make people account for every 15 minute period of every day, they mandated that you couldn't go out anywhere unless it was by twos....yeah, I'd call that "we own you".
It wasn't like that in the 70s. We were mostly young and not very cognizant of being all things to all men, and yet God still gave the increase. Hope that clarifies it.
In the 90's they definitely started to get way too controlling. I came to it in 94 & just didn't see it initially. Loking back, at that time I was searching for answers, for a love I'd never felt, for inclusion. I thought that I'd find that there. But as time went on I began to see it all clearly.
Having to account for every bit of my time, having to study constantly, having to go places only for the soul purpose of "witnessing," only having friends that are part of the ministry, giving every cent that you had that you didn't need to pay bills with. The list goes on & on. Heck, once my then husband accused me of having "devil" spirits & started "casting them out" like I'm part of the exorcist or something.
The way they betrayed people's sense of trust & their genuine desire to learn is shameful. Should I have seen right through it? Should I have been more careful? Possibly. But for those of us who were so desparately needing to belong, to find answers & a better way, we were vulnerable & just could not see things from a clear enough perspective. That is what I have trouble with - their taking advantage of people in those situations.
I needed to go back and remember who I was before twi...
- what did I like to do? what was I good at?
- what did I hate to do? what was I lousy at?
- why did twi catch my interest? what was missing in my life?
- why did twi hold my interest? why did I stay involved after my interest wained?
- what did I really believe in? what did I BS-to-get-by on?
Then, I needed to figure out my place in the universe now...
- Family? -- Thank goodness they were forgiving. I was certainly a pompous jerk to most of them.
- Friends? -- I cherish the old ones. we have a history. New ones are hard to come by.
- Trust? -- Nope. Not in organized religion. Never again. Not much in people, either.
- Belief? -- Maybe. Still unsure what I think of God. Now I just watch and think a lot.
- Happiness? -- Yes, I think so. There are ups. There are downs. But they are all mine.
That led me to "What the heck do I want to do now?"...
I'm still putting pieces together and filling holes in all of this...
Thanks, HighWay - your post really struck a nerve for me personally! After having a large part of my personality/identity in suspended animation for 12 years while in TWI - I find it very challenging but rewarding [and re-awakening] getting back to my "roots." Life is a journey.
I liken my leaving TWI and the time after it to going thru a second divorce. I was in from '88-'00, from the time I was 17 until I was 29. Years that most people are figuring out who they are as an adult and getting their lives and careers on track, I was trying to conform to the "Present Truth" and whatever else everyone else told me I should be doing. Yeah, I had glimmers of rebellion in there, but since I was also married during most of that time, I got shot down from any really fruitful rebellious moments.
I guess what it boils down to is, when I left I suddenly had to (a) answer for myself for everything; and (b) discover who I was and what I wanted. Suddenly, I had the world in front of me. I could choose anything I wanted. It was frightening and exciting all at once.
Fast forward, six years later...
I am more comfortable and proud of the person I am now, than the person I was six or seven or ten years ago. The peace I have is far greater than the *peace* I had when I was an "innie". I feel like I have a future, and that I have security - not of a financial means, but in sort of a spiritual way. It's taken me a long time to get here and I still have a lot to do, but I certainly don't regret leaving at any time. The only thing I've missed from leaving TWI is the friends I made when I was with the group - and many of them are now out as well, so we're in touch. That's really it, in a nutshell.
This is my 1st post in GSC. I must say I am thankful it is here and serves a purpose. I left TWI about 3 mnths ago after 24 yrs. It was once I learned about leadership and what they have done in the past to people that got me out. I am a loyal person but finally got to the point of not being able to support an organization that uses people. Our FC were great but ? our dedication to TWI because we were busy with our children's activities and were not going to be involved in the new class. I guess the reason I am posting here is going through the emotions of being ashamed and how stupid I could have been to be involved with TWI for all those years. I guess part of the reason was that I didn't know any other religion or church before getting involved. I was wary to start off with, knowing some other religious organizations are hypocritical. Then seeing in TWI made me leave, I was blinded not to have seen it earlier. Now here I am in mid forties starting over again trying to set things up properly. I also am confused as to what to believe is right doctrine and wrong. I am over the aspect of looking over my shoulder to make sure the devil isn't going to strike me dead???. If there is any body out there that has gone through similar emotions feel free to contact me. Again thanks for all those that post here, I am sure there are many that read and don't post but have same thoughts that I have had.
I also am confused as to what to believe is right doctrine and wrong. I am over the aspect of looking over my shoulder to make sure the devil isn't going to strike me dead???. If there is any body out there that has gone through similar emotions feel free to contact me. Again thanks for all those that post here, I am sure there are many that read and don't post but have same thoughts that I have had.
One more thing, sportsfan......be sure to give yourself some time to sort things out.
Yeah, lots of emotions, eh? I, too, had lots of thoughts and emotions when I left twi over eight years ago. Kept seeing twi legalism running rampant and board of trustees who didn't have a clue.
This site is chock full of topics, experiences, advice, emotions, stories..... If I can help you, please pm me... if you like.
Your post sounds eerily similar to our story. In for twenty...but our FC was not a great guy, though many of the people in the area were good folk. We, too, got 'reproof' for being too involved in school activities etc. I guess I thought a parent should be involved in the things their children are part of--silly me! Kind of a weird deal--keep your kids isolated/let your kids be a witness/don't give their activities your time/move the word/don't let other people raise your children...It was all pretty confusing, but the one thing we could be sure about was our decisions being WRONG.
As far as right doctrine--it IS confusing. Look at how many different doctrines there are. Plenty of people will tell you that their doctrine is the correct one, in some cases the only possible right one, with dire consequences if you choose the wrong one. My advice would be to take things slow and pick what resonates for you, not what others tell you must be the right one.
QT...I remember those days. We were actually hfc's during those days. Gosh!
Yup...the hypocrisy I lived shames me at times. :( Thankful I finally saw it.
And I remember planning out every moment of my freaking day. :blink:
Welcome Sportsfan! I left 9 months ago after 28 years in. I struggle with the same thing...doctrine stuff...and other stuff (mixed emotions.) Just discussed the doctrine dilemma within my soul this week with one of my best friends from GSC. Good folks here Sportsfan...keep hanging around.
At 47, I and my husband (he left 4 months ago after 24 years in) are talking dreams again. We (along with many here at the Cafe) genuinely understand and empathize. It will sort itself out. I try to stay open and keep my heart tender. My prayer in December was two things: 1) no more cover and 2) grow through my need for approval. I must have been serious because both those are happening at a fast clip.
Glad you're out. Hang on and learn from the ride. Joy is awaiting..and maybe you've tasted it already.
I, too, am often confused, and occasionally find myself thinking things that were just melted into my brain after a while. I am still new, too, and I can say that everyone here has been interesting and helpful. Take your time to wade through the posts...and as I've noticed, questions here are encouraged...
To all you "just left twi, new to greasespotters".... WELCOME!!!!!!
I left twi almost six years ago, after nineteen years in... and from time to time people come here to the forums and ask why we "got out long ago" folks still hang out and post here... YOU are why.
You are feeling what we all felt. You are going through the trauma of stepping out into the great unknown of non-twi territory. You are trying to deal with your guilt, your shame, your questions, your fears, your hope.
I'm thrilled you found this haven. It isn't always peaceful. And we SURE aren't like-minded on things. But what a breath of fresh air it is for people to say what they think... to be allowed to think freely in the first place.
When I was leaving twi, the forums were my daily manna... my personal therapy. Feel free to ask questions, think out loud, get angry, get sad, laugh like a madman. Most of us know exactly how you feel.
Just give yourself time. Healing and recovery are a process. You'll see immediate results, then suddenly you'll get blind-sided by something you didn't even realize was lurking in the back of your brain. Some wayism. Some issue. Some un-dealt-with crap that surfaces. Hang in there. We're here for you.
...I also am confused as to what to believe is right doctrine and wrong. I am over the aspect of looking over my shoulder to make sure the devil isn't going to strike me dead???. If there is any body out there that has gone through similar emotions feel free to contact me. Again thanks for all those that post here, I am sure there are many that read and don't post but have same thoughts that I have had.
Welcome to Grease Spot, Sportsfan !!!!!!! And I think most of us go through the same thing! Like The Highway said - give yourself time, healing and recovery are a process...Something that may be of interest to you is a thread on critical thinking http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=238498
It feels odd at first - but the more we start thinking for ourselves - like in assessing what's right and wrong doctrine - it starts feeling more natural - like an atrophied muscle coming back to life...Anyway, have fun at GSC - a great place to think out loud.
I needed to go back and remember who I was before twi...
- what did I like to do? what was I good at?
- what did I hate to do? what was I lousy at?
- why did twi catch my interest? what was missing in my life?
- why did twi hold my interest? why did I stay involved after my interest wained?
- what did I really believe in? what did I BS-to-get-by on?
Then, I needed to figure out my place in the universe now...
- Family? -- Thank goodness they were forgiving. I was certainly a pompous jerk to most of them.
- Friends? -- I cherish the old ones. we have a history. New ones are hard to come by.
- Trust? -- Nope. Not in organized religion. Never again. Not much in people, either.
- Belief? -- Maybe. Still unsure what I think of God. Now I just watch and think a lot.
- Happiness? -- Yes, I think so. There are ups. There are downs. But they are all mine.
That led me to "What the heck do I want to do now?"
- hobbies: creative things that make me feel like I've accomplished something that others can enjoy
- house: YES!!! my very own! (well, me and the bank) -- paint, decorate, build, fix, mow, plant -- I love it!
- job: much more freedom of type, hours, etc.
- school: finally going back to get that long-put-off degree
This is really very helpful - it might even help more if I wrote it down and filled it out hehe. I too find myself thinking: Who the heck am I? The problem with me is - there was never a "before twi" for me. So I have to figure out where do I build from here? Which is exactly what I'm having to do now. I'm pretty much having to figure out the person I WANT to be rather than the person that twi tried to mold me into.
Welcome to GSC! I remember the feelings you describe and it took awhile for me to gain confidence in my new identity, too. Everyone has a different path, so take your time. There are tons of books to read on cults, fundamentalism, etc. but mostly I'd say:
1) LISTEN really closely to your inner self, gut, or whatever you want to call it.
2) Go slow in making decisions.
3) Breathe deeply often.
4) Remember that exercise clears the mind and does wonderful things for your body/mind that no amount of "figuring stuff out" can do.
5) Be kind to yourself and others. Like they say, "We're all walking around in an emotional emergency room."
Take good care of yourself!
Be your own "cause" now.
Visit GSC when you can to gain support. We're glad to be here for you!
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bliss
Hi T-
I love all the new experiences I am having since our exit.
I am doing things, and enjoying things I never thought was possible in TWI.
I think for me, Proverbs 3 has been the key verse to help me in the "leaving" process.
"Trust in the Lord with ALL thy heart and LEAN NOT unto THY own understanding; in ALL your ways, acknowledge HIM and HE will direct your path."
I knew this verse while in TWI, but the impact it had on my after we left, is profound.
I had to learn to trust GOD, not a man, not a ministry, not a class, not a book, not an ideology, not a group, not MYSELF!
I had to give it all the Him, because we did NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO! In all our ways, gave it to HIM. "What is your pleasure Lord, what do you want us to do?" Down on our knees for the first time in our lives!
And wouldn't you know it........................we ended up at the right place at the right time, to give us just what we needed, and it has changed our lives!
Everyone learns, grows, needs, different things at different times.
For us, we needed to stay in the fire, so to speak. When we didn't know what we were doing, had nowhere to go, (spiritually), it was the hardest, darkest time for us. Hubby, was depressed sort of. Not himself.
Nor was I.
But trusting in the Lord to bring us from darkness to light proved true for us.
It is not in a church, a class or person..................
It is our Lord and God that we put our trust, and we are right where He wants us. To give HIM glory. Not ourselves, not others, not a ministry, not a class, not a way of thinking.
Now I can say, I have liberty. I am "living" this abundant life I always wanted. It has nothing to do with money. It has to do with life and what I am going to do for HIM.
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Vyctorya911
For me it was very very difficult & at first impossible to go to any church. My trust was broken. It took a long time to build it back up. Additionally, they were so restrictive that it really hit me hard emotionally. I had no friends, my marriage broke up, I was isolated & it was scary. Practically I had to break habits like reporting in to someone constantly, giving all my $$$$ away that I didn't need to pay bills with, etc.
I was also curious about other religions & lifestyles. I got so sick of hearing them bash the Catholic Church, bash homosexuals, bash anyone who did not agree with them. I began to really see first hand that I do not care what religion someone has. If it works for them & they are a better person as a result, then great! I do not have to agree doctrinally with someone, but I can learn from them in some ways & can respect their choice & the way they follow it. Likewise, whether I agree or disagree with someone being homosexual, I'm not going to judge them on that basis & assume they're evil, bad, etc.
I saw their hatred in a totally new light. I had left them but stayed in my then marriahe, hoping it could work. Shortly after, I suffered a stroke. I was told it happened because I walked out from under God's protection. Oh they came over & brought food, etc. but not without stressing that it was ONLY because my then husband was a true believer & they only cared about his well being spiritually & hence were doing all this for him.
That event really woke me up. I finally realized I had to get out. With the help of a very good co-worker who was a Christian I was able to get help & get out for good. I found strong support & finally saw there were still good people out there.
Today, I am Interfaith, married to a man who shares in my beliefs & does not love me only if I share his. I read things for myself & that includes other texts than the KJV, etc. I appreciate people more & have really learned how hard it is to be secluded & discriminated against. So now I'm much stronger.
It was hard, but worth the fight to get out, get strong & get moving with life!!!!!
Vyctorya
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QuietThinker
I've not been sure where to put this, but it has been on my mind since I left TWI, and still weighs heavily on my thoughts...so maybe that means it's part of the sorting out process?
Anyway, I remember when "witnessing and outreach" took a definite turn. We were counseled by our leadership that we needed to "effectively target and strike the most humble hearts" when it came to our outreach. We were to concentrate on "Friends, Family, and Co-workers."
Does anyone else remember this? I'm looking at some notes I took from that teaching right now, and that's when our fellowship began the "weekly outreach" events, and we were all to carry around little witnessing cards, tallying the numbers of our week on them. The categories were:
Spoke the word
Invited to Fellowship
Followed up (with a call)
and brought to fellowship
undersheparded/took class
And we had to turn in these little 3x5 cards every Thursday night at HF. I remember, and see from my notes the following: "The people we are looking for are the salt of the earth. Don't waste your time with the wealthy, or the highly educated, they are too proud, too hard-hearted to hear the truth. Their God is already money and will not have ears to hear you. Also, do not concentrate on the very poor and indigent, they are slothful and lazy and have completely given over to the devil spirits that surround this entire corrupt welfare culture we live in."
I was a good member in standing. I took my notes. (I rarely looked at them again), but this socio-economic .... set off my internal BS detectors even then.
Even THEN, I knew that to make such claims and pervert scripture to back it up was most likely a way to merely bring in the most ABS Dollars per capita, per person.
Of COURSE we shouldn't witness to the educated...they are already trained to question. Of COURSE we shouldn't witness to the wealthy without "a substantial open door", because they probably already have financial planning in place and are unlikely to submit to a lay-person's parroted ideas of fiscal responsibility. Go for the lower middle class, we were told. Go for the mechanic, the divorced, or as I thought then, the people harried, under the gun, living on the edge of a gaping hole of debt that doesn't care if it swallows them alive.
We were told that those people would be the only ones meek enough to receive The Word, but how callous and calculated was that teaching, as I now look back on it.
What hurts me now, is that we were regular "teachers", my husband and I, in our HF. We never aspired to be corps, though I was pulled aside multiple times and told my husband had better step up and get his thinking right on leadership because I would be held responsible for "squandering my personal evangelical gift ministry." Erm...what?
How could they have wanted us in corps? I was the most disobediant, loathesome cow and he was and is an autocrat. (Though, reading things now, I can see that's a quality highly to be prized in leadership candidates.)
I suppose what's really got me in a twist tonight, is that I did just what I was told. I witnessed where I was told (except to my friends and family, because I was embarrassed, and I have no co-workers, I work from home). But those outreach events? Until they insisted on 2x2, I used to go hide. When we went 2 x 2, I intentionally steered away from people.
I was not afraid to witness, it was just that when I did, people listened to me and apparently "my percentages" of witness to fellowship attendance was around 50%. I felt like I was scamming them for their money. I was afraid I would later have to admit to someone that I'd brought them to a bad place. I was terrified people would know what my husband was really like. All those reasons.
I know there are people I witnessed to that are still In. I am having trouble with my role in that. I realise I didn't make them drink the kool-aid, but Yeesh, I certainly brought them to the table, poured the cup, and handed it to them.
I tend not to focus on guilt these days...but those encounters still haunt me.
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excathedra
QT.... throw away the guilt with those little 3x5 cards
mwah
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TheHighWay
I called it unraveling the bowl of spaghetti.
I needed to go back and remember who I was before twi...
- what did I like to do? what was I good at?
- what did I hate to do? what was I lousy at?
- why did twi catch my interest? what was missing in my life?
- why did twi hold my interest? why did I stay involved after my interest wained?
- what did I really believe in? what did I BS-to-get-by on?
Then, I needed to figure out my place in the universe now...
- Family? -- Thank goodness they were forgiving. I was certainly a pompous jerk to most of them.
- Friends? -- I cherish the old ones. we have a history. New ones are hard to come by.
- Trust? -- Nope. Not in organized religion. Never again. Not much in people, either.
- Belief? -- Maybe. Still unsure what I think of God. Now I just watch and think a lot.
- Happiness? -- Yes, I think so. There are ups. There are downs. But they are all mine.
That led me to "What the heck do I want to do now?"
- hobbies: creative things that make me feel like I've accomplished something that others can enjoy
- house: YES!!! my very own! (well, me and the bank) -- paint, decorate, build, fix, mow, plant -- I love it!
- job: much more freedom of type, hours, etc.
- school: finally going back to get that long-put-off degree
I'm still putting pieces together and filling holes in all of this... but I've come an awful long way in six!!! (wow, has it really been that long?!!)
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outandabout
When I was in TWI, I considered my former life to be of the "old man." Thus, I gave it little thought and considered my previous experiences to be inconsequential.
Lately, all these memories keep popping up, as though my life before TWI was so repressed that now it has to come back up.
Now I see it as a continuity - before TWI, during TWI, and after TWI. All of it is my life and all of it is valid.
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johniam
quote: "…Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man that he didn't already have…" by America. Besides that verse having the classic double-negative no-no - I think it describes one aspect of my experience with TWI. I've always had a brain – for as long as I can remember - before, during and after TWI
Hmm. Last time I watched the Wizard of Oz I noticed that during the final showdown in the witch's castle it was the scarecrow, the one who supposedly didn't have a brain, who figured out that by cutting or releasing the rope would cause the chandellier to fall on the witch and some of her servants.
No, TWI didn't give us anything except the benefit of their knowledge. If none of that knowledge is worth nothing to you now, so be it. It's still worth something to me. Knowing that Christ's finished work made me complete, righteous, forgiven. Knowing that I have access to God 24/7. Some people who've gone to church all their lives still don't know this stuff.
But TWI crossed the line. Their attitude became "we taught you this, therefore we own you". The "witch's castle" still exists in New Knoxville, but many of us have long released the rope.
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oldiesman
I don't often disagree with Johniam but here I must respectfully do so. :o ;)
We had choices in twi, and if one volunteered, it was one's choice. If one freely availed, one freely availed. TWI at one time was very serious about its message and if one agreed with and volunteered to communicate that message, it was that individuals' choice.The way I see it, and I feel strongly about this ... twi didn't own anybody any more than the person allowed them to. If one jumped in head first that was their choice and shouldn't be degraded because that choice was to communicate the things of God to others.
But I also received much benefit from sweet fellowship with others.
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T-Bone
Thanks for that correction - the Tin Man wanted a heart, scarecrow wanted brains...And I agree with your point on the benefit of knowledge - we all have a different opinion of what's valid in PFAL - part of the sorting out process of what we each think is good and bad...And I agree with your saying they crossed the line with their ownership attitude...I should have had the courage of the lion to think for myself ..."put 'em up, put 'em up!"
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johniam
OM:
quote: Their attitude became "we taught you this, therefore we own you".
I'm not talking about 1980, I'm talking about 1994. Before that year, there were pockets of TWI people who acted like they owned you, but it became ministry policy that year. Craig said it best...."This thing is going to be done right if I have to coordinate every fellowship in the US."
I think you know that I feel as strongly as you do that it was never a "cult" that "made us do their bidding" just so they could get rich. Don't have a lot of respect for that position. I walked in on my own and walked out pretty much the same way.
In 1994 they started kicking people out for being in debt, being suspected homos, being unproductive, they would send people to your house to look in your underwear drawers for objects of evil, they'd make people account for every 15 minute period of every day, they mandated that you couldn't go out anywhere unless it was by twos....yeah, I'd call that "we own you".
It wasn't like that in the 70s. We were mostly young and not very cognizant of being all things to all men, and yet God still gave the increase. Hope that clarifies it.
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Vyctorya911
In the 90's they definitely started to get way too controlling. I came to it in 94 & just didn't see it initially. Loking back, at that time I was searching for answers, for a love I'd never felt, for inclusion. I thought that I'd find that there. But as time went on I began to see it all clearly.
Having to account for every bit of my time, having to study constantly, having to go places only for the soul purpose of "witnessing," only having friends that are part of the ministry, giving every cent that you had that you didn't need to pay bills with. The list goes on & on. Heck, once my then husband accused me of having "devil" spirits & started "casting them out" like I'm part of the exorcist or something.
The way they betrayed people's sense of trust & their genuine desire to learn is shameful. Should I have seen right through it? Should I have been more careful? Possibly. But for those of us who were so desparately needing to belong, to find answers & a better way, we were vulnerable & just could not see things from a clear enough perspective. That is what I have trouble with - their taking advantage of people in those situations.
Vyctorya
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T-Bone
Thanks, HighWay - your post really struck a nerve for me personally! After having a large part of my personality/identity in suspended animation for 12 years while in TWI - I find it very challenging but rewarding [and re-awakening] getting back to my "roots." Life is a journey.
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ChasUFarley
I liken my leaving TWI and the time after it to going thru a second divorce. I was in from '88-'00, from the time I was 17 until I was 29. Years that most people are figuring out who they are as an adult and getting their lives and careers on track, I was trying to conform to the "Present Truth" and whatever else everyone else told me I should be doing. Yeah, I had glimmers of rebellion in there, but since I was also married during most of that time, I got shot down from any really fruitful rebellious moments.
I guess what it boils down to is, when I left I suddenly had to (a) answer for myself for everything; and (b) discover who I was and what I wanted. Suddenly, I had the world in front of me. I could choose anything I wanted. It was frightening and exciting all at once.
Fast forward, six years later...
I am more comfortable and proud of the person I am now, than the person I was six or seven or ten years ago. The peace I have is far greater than the *peace* I had when I was an "innie". I feel like I have a future, and that I have security - not of a financial means, but in sort of a spiritual way. It's taken me a long time to get here and I still have a lot to do, but I certainly don't regret leaving at any time. The only thing I've missed from leaving TWI is the friends I made when I was with the group - and many of them are now out as well, so we're in touch. That's really it, in a nutshell.
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sportsfan
This is my 1st post in GSC. I must say I am thankful it is here and serves a purpose. I left TWI about 3 mnths ago after 24 yrs. It was once I learned about leadership and what they have done in the past to people that got me out. I am a loyal person but finally got to the point of not being able to support an organization that uses people. Our FC were great but ? our dedication to TWI because we were busy with our children's activities and were not going to be involved in the new class. I guess the reason I am posting here is going through the emotions of being ashamed and how stupid I could have been to be involved with TWI for all those years. I guess part of the reason was that I didn't know any other religion or church before getting involved. I was wary to start off with, knowing some other religious organizations are hypocritical. Then seeing in TWI made me leave, I was blinded not to have seen it earlier. Now here I am in mid forties starting over again trying to set things up properly. I also am confused as to what to believe is right doctrine and wrong. I am over the aspect of looking over my shoulder to make sure the devil isn't going to strike me dead???. If there is any body out there that has gone through similar emotions feel free to contact me. Again thanks for all those that post here, I am sure there are many that read and don't post but have same thoughts that I have had.
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skyrider
Welcome sportsfan.
I stayed in twi for 24 years as well. But, thanks to GS...and lots of great folks here....the transition has been relatively good.
Someone will be around with the menu soon.
:)
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skyrider
One more thing, sportsfan......be sure to give yourself some time to sort things out.
Yeah, lots of emotions, eh? I, too, had lots of thoughts and emotions when I left twi over eight years ago. Kept seeing twi legalism running rampant and board of trustees who didn't have a clue.
This site is chock full of topics, experiences, advice, emotions, stories..... If I can help you, please pm me... if you like.
Life is short. Keep moving forward. :)
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Bramble
Hi sportsfan.
Your post sounds eerily similar to our story. In for twenty...but our FC was not a great guy, though many of the people in the area were good folk. We, too, got 'reproof' for being too involved in school activities etc. I guess I thought a parent should be involved in the things their children are part of--silly me! Kind of a weird deal--keep your kids isolated/let your kids be a witness/don't give their activities your time/move the word/don't let other people raise your children...It was all pretty confusing, but the one thing we could be sure about was our decisions being WRONG.
As far as right doctrine--it IS confusing. Look at how many different doctrines there are. Plenty of people will tell you that their doctrine is the correct one, in some cases the only possible right one, with dire consequences if you choose the wrong one. My advice would be to take things slow and pick what resonates for you, not what others tell you must be the right one.
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I Love Bagpipes
QT...I remember those days. We were actually hfc's during those days.
Gosh!
Yup...the hypocrisy I lived shames me at times. :( Thankful I finally saw it.
And I remember planning out every moment of my freaking day. :blink:
Welcome Sportsfan!
I left 9 months ago after 28 years in. I struggle with the same thing...doctrine stuff...and other stuff (mixed emotions.) Just discussed the doctrine dilemma within my soul this week with one of my best friends from GSC. Good folks here Sportsfan...keep hanging around.
At 47, I and my husband (he left 4 months ago after 24 years in) are talking dreams again. We (along with many here at the Cafe) genuinely understand and empathize. It will sort itself out. I try to stay open and keep my heart tender. My prayer in December was two things: 1) no more cover and 2) grow through my need for approval. I must have been serious because both those are happening at a fast clip.
Glad you're out. Hang on and learn from the ride. Joy is awaiting..and maybe you've tasted it already.
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QuietThinker
hi Sportsfan!
I, too, am often confused, and occasionally find myself thinking things that were just melted into my brain after a while. I am still new, too, and I can say that everyone here has been interesting and helpful. Take your time to wade through the posts...and as I've noticed, questions here are encouraged...
as is lively debate...
Very high on the healthy-meter, in my opinion.
~~qt
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TheHighWay
To all you "just left twi, new to greasespotters".... WELCOME!!!!!!
I left twi almost six years ago, after nineteen years in... and from time to time people come here to the forums and ask why we "got out long ago" folks still hang out and post here... YOU are why.
You are feeling what we all felt. You are going through the trauma of stepping out into the great unknown of non-twi territory. You are trying to deal with your guilt, your shame, your questions, your fears, your hope.
I'm thrilled you found this haven. It isn't always peaceful. And we SURE aren't like-minded on things. But what a breath of fresh air it is for people to say what they think... to be allowed to think freely in the first place.
When I was leaving twi, the forums were my daily manna... my personal therapy. Feel free to ask questions, think out loud, get angry, get sad, laugh like a madman. Most of us know exactly how you feel.
Just give yourself time. Healing and recovery are a process. You'll see immediate results, then suddenly you'll get blind-sided by something you didn't even realize was lurking in the back of your brain. Some wayism. Some issue. Some un-dealt-with crap that surfaces. Hang in there. We're here for you.
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T-Bone
Welcome to Grease Spot, Sportsfan !!!!!!! And I think most of us go through the same thing! Like The Highway said - give yourself time, healing and recovery are a process...Something that may be of interest to you is a thread on critical thinking http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=238498
It feels odd at first - but the more we start thinking for ourselves - like in assessing what's right and wrong doctrine - it starts feeling more natural - like an atrophied muscle coming back to life...Anyway, have fun at GSC - a great place to think out loud.
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watersedge
this is how i choose to think
:)
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Nero
This is really very helpful - it might even help more if I wrote it down and filled it out hehe. I too find myself thinking: Who the heck am I? The problem with me is - there was never a "before twi" for me. So I have to figure out where do I build from here? Which is exactly what I'm having to do now. I'm pretty much having to figure out the person I WANT to be rather than the person that twi tried to mold me into.
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bookfan
Welcome to GSC! I remember the feelings you describe and it took awhile for me to gain confidence in my new identity, too. Everyone has a different path, so take your time. There are tons of books to read on cults, fundamentalism, etc. but mostly I'd say:
1) LISTEN really closely to your inner self, gut, or whatever you want to call it.
2) Go slow in making decisions.
3) Breathe deeply often.
4) Remember that exercise clears the mind and does wonderful things for your body/mind that no amount of "figuring stuff out" can do.
5) Be kind to yourself and others. Like they say, "We're all walking around in an emotional emergency room."
Take good care of yourself!
Be your own "cause" now.
Visit GSC when you can to gain support. We're glad to be here for you!
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