Was reading some of the docs on here on the gsc and it looks like my timeline may be a little off. Still I remember this biz about defending the Way against copy right infringement, etc. The real legal battles were self induced my the trustees, much more serious issues, and much more costly to the believers than suggested.
I was never Corps, but I was on Staff during that time. This was a time that we had to take a 10% cut in need-basis pay. I guess that meant we had 10% less of our needs met. Really it was more than that because my needs weren't getting met.
Anyway, when LCM edicted the emergency cutbacks, it was explained that they had an unexpected tax payment. If I remember correctly, it had something to do with employment taxes. LCM said if we really couldn't live without the 10% to contact him. Do you think anyone was doing that???? Hell no. We didn't want to be made examples the next day at lunch. Who knows what it was all about. I sure don't trust now that LCM or anyone else in leadership at HQ told the truth about anything. They sure didn't slack when it came to Trustee meetings.
The Allens were on Staff at the time. I don't think twi was preparing for that lawsuit anyway.
Here's my take on it. It's all about control, and here are the facts:TWI was never in any financial trouble, look at the financial reports from 1987 to 2001 so the BOT came up with a scheme to tighten control. Geographicly TWI was spread thin, so it seams the big gatherings and weekends were not filling up any more. They cancelled the college program "lack of interest due to no acreditation" they cancelled the WOW program, less and less people to send (because LCM scared them away) with the WOW program gone they could cancel the ROA, besides 50% of the most faithful people didn't goto the ROA any more. With the ROA gone TWI didn't have to lay out all the cash to pull it off and could put that other places.Even with the looming Allen case they had over $30 million in assets by 2000 they had over $40 million. In 2003 they claimed to have $48 million in assets. and from 1987 to 2001 their annual expences never rose above $3.6 million. Oh and guess what, this doesn't include the Gunnison property which is under a separate non-profit, I don't know how much money is hidden there.It's all about control,Seth
I remember this time and the required "tax payment" being one of the concerns. LCM said something very close to, "It's not that we are not living within our means. Oh no! Absolutely not. It's the government. The employment taxes are coming due..."
Excuse me, but I am a small business owner and there is no surprise about employment taxes. They are a required expense if you have employees ... duhh. Mine are due each month, but he seemed to indicate they were coming up at the end of that year. They must have had some special circumstance. But I know to the cent what mine are going to be after each payroll period. Either his finance staff did not mention this to him when he had the revelation about all corps being full time, or they simply were not living within their means. By cutting payroll 10%, they were able to hit it both ways ... less money going out and less payroll taxes due as well. Simply ... The Way as a corporation was not living within its means while its officers were requiring all others to do so.
TWI was never in any financial trouble, look at the financial reports from 1987 to 2001 so the BOT came up with a scheme to tighten control.
I don't know Seth. I'm derailing myself a bit here, but there were lots of stupid financial decisions under Craig's watch. Of the assets listed I'm not sure how much of that was tied up in real estate - it wouldn't surprise me if they had a cash flow problem. So many costly stupid things like 1) all Corps full time (Craig bragged, "Ernst & Young think we're nuts", as if that's something to brag about) 2) overnight ship STS tapes to get the "present truth" ASAP 3)bringing all of us together for state meetings ever month, often every week, geez there's a lot more than just that you could fault. Whether or not the Allen case was looming, it is just insane that they keep so many of us full time so long. I don't see control here, I see out of control spending.
Today, you can't spend $300 without BOT approval. Big difference.
I agree Shortfuse. That was all based on lcm's ego and convinving himself it was God telling him all of this. Why did he all of a sudden tell everyone to get a job a few years later if it was God's will? His decisions put a lot of dedicated people in hurtful situations. Sure, lcm said he gave people time to get it together. But think about how much people gave up to go fulltime. They didn't want to default on their Corps commitment. Sure, they could have told him no. But with the cult mentality we all had, it just wasn't an option at the time for most. And those who did have the balls to say no had their reputations trashed on public forum by the big forehead himself.
Either his finance staff did not mention this to him when he had the revelation about all corps being full time, or they simply were not living within their means.
Interesting thought, Clam. I think the staff probably were afraid to tell Craig about how financially imprudent his decision was because he was a bully and he justified himself with "revelation". As if because it was revelation we could just believe our way through it. I think Howard knew better, but tried to make it work as best he could because the MOG said so. I wonder who eventually persuaded him to get "revelation" to reverse this disasterous course.
It was probably the reality of things which hit them. The money was probably running out faster than they were collecting it. By that time they had run off all of the good people who got M&Ad for being homo or who refused to sell their houses. But the "reality" was represented as revelation again. That sucks that he used revelation to control people's lives. TWI would do or say anything to make themselves not sound like the bad guy.
It pains me enough to think that we stayed full time and sacrificed to try to cover LCM's foot and even more to think that there are couples who like missed opportunities to have families because of the bans on pregnancy.
Oooh - you bring up a sore subject for some of us!
That whole pregnancy thing.....what an awful, evil, scenario. I remember that:
1. We had to notify our overseers about wanting to get pregnant, and OBTAIN PERMISSION from
the BOD.
2. Couldn't start until they said "Go for it" (although we could practice & rehearse )
3. We had to plan it according to which other WC in our area also planned to get pregnant since it would
mean (2) couples were pregnant at once, thererfore complicating things.
4. Our Region coordinator's wife seemed somewhat resentful, since she herself didn't fit into the parameters
(had to be over 35, grovel, had to have either 0 or 1 child, grovel, etc.).
Unbelievable now that we are so distant from all of that! No joke - we had to "take turns" getting pregnant with the other WC in our areas. Man, if there was just one of these icons that was "flipping the bird" I would be getting close to sharing what I really feel for TWI in this regard!
Whether or not the Allen case was looming, it is just insane that they keep so many of us full time so long. I don't see control here, I see out of control spending.
The way corps went full-time from August 1995 - October 1998. By March/April of 1998, the bot finally realized that having all corps on payroll was not working out.....and shortly thereafter, made an announcement on corps meetings.....giving corps a few months to make adjustments, find jobs, etc. Of course, the bot sidestepped the "revelation to craig" concept and simply tried to throw a curve and say that the time was ripe to move in another direction.
For clarity.......P. Allen confronted lcm in Feb/Mar of 1999 and left staff and started Waydale. After this incident, one could say that "the Allen case was looming."
What an excellent write-up and great job of putting into practice "luo" - "dismantle the works of the adversary" to "dismantle part by component part" the control scheme of TWI. Hats off to you Catcup.
Most if not all of this material had been taught in the ministry for many years by the original MOG. Same control technique. The only difference was the MOG jr didn't have the charisma of MOG sr and MOG jr's audience wasn't a bunch of young impressionable kids.
I started in 1995 but was never Corps. I left in 2000. I recall hearing about the reduction in pay & the cuts, etc., but as I remember we were only told that it was to ensure that the money wasn't being spent slothfully & they wanted to oversee God's money better.
The way corps went full-time from August 1995 - October 1998. By March/April of 1998, the bot finally realized that having all corps on payroll was not working out.....and shortly thereafter, made an announcement on corps meetings.....giving corps a few months to make adjustments, find jobs, etc. Of course, the bot sidestepped the "revelation to craig" concept and simply tried to throw a curve and say that the time was ripe to move in another direction.
For clarity.......P. Allen confronted lcm in Feb/Mar of 1999 and left staff and started Waydale. After this incident, one could say that "the Allen case was looming."
Thanks for clarifying dates - I remember now. :)
I guess my assessment was wrong. I do seem to remember legal matters being a reason we needed to build back up the coffers depleted during that time. I was just wondering the legal stuff they were referencing at that time was actually the lawsuits from Allens and others. The time line suggests not, but on the other hand they almost had to know they were going to get their @sses sued at some point.
Regarding the "revelation" to Craig I seem to recall it came up at the end too. He had to explain it to the whole ministry since he made such a big deal of the Corps needing to be full time. I'm pretty sure that "revelation" was one of the key reasons.
Anyway, thanks for clearing up the timeline for me.
Craig explained away the "revelation" with his teachings on "revelation changes" based on the circumstances. I can't remember the examples he used, but it was OT stories - I remember that - where God was going to destroy a country or city and then changed his mind.
He said that God showed him something along the lines of a Water Balloon busting and all these beautiful flowers springing up and a lush field, but then it withered and died as the water was soaked up and evaporated. Something like that, anyway. That was his "change in revelation" that having the WC full time helped the ministry flourish for a bit, but now it's time for them to go back to work and uncover those "hungering and thirsting" that "the devil has hidden" from us.
What made me scratch my head on the decision to cancel the full-time Way Corps program was LCM's comment that we non-Corps would need to increase the percentage of our giving...that many people were barely tithing. And that if, in a few years, the Corps had to go back to 'secular' work, "we will have failed".
One of his justifications to us that the decision to send them back out to work was beneficial was that the Corps would now be able to win people in the workplace that would not have previously heard 'the Word'.
Craig explained away the "revelation" with his teachings on "revelation changes" based on the circumstances. I can't remember the examples he used, but it was OT stories - I remember that - where God was going to destroy a country or city and then changed his mind.
He said that God showed him something along the lines of a Water Balloon busting and all these beautiful flowers springing up and a lush field, but then it withered and died as the water was soaked up and evaporated. Something like that, anyway. That was his "change in revelation" that having the WC full time helped the ministry flourish for a bit, but now it's time for them to go back to work and uncover those "hungering and thirsting" that "the devil has hidden" from us.
Belle,
Just to clarify, he mentioned the "water balloon" revelation in light of a $1,000,000 donation they received. He said that he thought that the big donation could keep all the Corps full time for at least another year. That is when he said "God" gave him the balloon revelation showing that the money would immediately cause blossom "spiritually" but then would quickly dry up. A good way to say "Gee, we just don't want to spend money on these Corps who already quit their jobs to go full time." Such a putz!
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shortfuse
Was reading some of the docs on here on the gsc and it looks like my timeline may be a little off. Still I remember this biz about defending the Way against copy right infringement, etc. The real legal battles were self induced my the trustees, much more serious issues, and much more costly to the believers than suggested.
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Nottawayfer
Shortfuse,
I was never Corps, but I was on Staff during that time. This was a time that we had to take a 10% cut in need-basis pay. I guess that meant we had 10% less of our needs met. Really it was more than that because my needs weren't getting met.
Anyway, when LCM edicted the emergency cutbacks, it was explained that they had an unexpected tax payment. If I remember correctly, it had something to do with employment taxes. LCM said if we really couldn't live without the 10% to contact him. Do you think anyone was doing that???? Hell no. We didn't want to be made examples the next day at lunch. Who knows what it was all about. I sure don't trust now that LCM or anyone else in leadership at HQ told the truth about anything. They sure didn't slack when it came to Trustee meetings.
The Allens were on Staff at the time. I don't think twi was preparing for that lawsuit anyway.
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dmiller
A set-up for a face-melting for sure. <_<
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Seth R.
Here's my take on it. It's all about control, and here are the facts:TWI was never in any financial trouble, look at the financial reports from 1987 to 2001 so the BOT came up with a scheme to tighten control. Geographicly TWI was spread thin, so it seams the big gatherings and weekends were not filling up any more. They cancelled the college program "lack of interest due to no acreditation" they cancelled the WOW program, less and less people to send (because LCM scared them away) with the WOW program gone they could cancel the ROA, besides 50% of the most faithful people didn't goto the ROA any more. With the ROA gone TWI didn't have to lay out all the cash to pull it off and could put that other places.Even with the looming Allen case they had over $30 million in assets by 2000 they had over $40 million. In 2003 they claimed to have $48 million in assets. and from 1987 to 2001 their annual expences never rose above $3.6 million. Oh and guess what, this doesn't include the Gunnison property which is under a separate non-profit, I don't know how much money is hidden there.It's all about control,Seth
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year2027
God first
Beloved Seth R.
God loves us my dear friend
Yes it was about control but there not controling us anymore
they are afraid of us now or at least I see no other reason to read our post and spy on us
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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Happyasaclam
I remember this time and the required "tax payment" being one of the concerns. LCM said something very close to, "It's not that we are not living within our means. Oh no! Absolutely not. It's the government. The employment taxes are coming due..."
Excuse me, but I am a small business owner and there is no surprise about employment taxes. They are a required expense if you have employees ... duhh. Mine are due each month, but he seemed to indicate they were coming up at the end of that year. They must have had some special circumstance. But I know to the cent what mine are going to be after each payroll period. Either his finance staff did not mention this to him when he had the revelation about all corps being full time, or they simply were not living within their means. By cutting payroll 10%, they were able to hit it both ways ... less money going out and less payroll taxes due as well. Simply ... The Way as a corporation was not living within its means while its officers were requiring all others to do so.
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shortfuse
I don't know Seth. I'm derailing myself a bit here, but there were lots of stupid financial decisions under Craig's watch. Of the assets listed I'm not sure how much of that was tied up in real estate - it wouldn't surprise me if they had a cash flow problem. So many costly stupid things like 1) all Corps full time (Craig bragged, "Ernst & Young think we're nuts", as if that's something to brag about) 2) overnight ship STS tapes to get the "present truth" ASAP 3)bringing all of us together for state meetings ever month, often every week, geez there's a lot more than just that you could fault. Whether or not the Allen case was looming, it is just insane that they keep so many of us full time so long. I don't see control here, I see out of control spending.
Today, you can't spend $300 without BOT approval. Big difference.
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Nottawayfer
I agree Shortfuse. That was all based on lcm's ego and convinving himself it was God telling him all of this. Why did he all of a sudden tell everyone to get a job a few years later if it was God's will? His decisions put a lot of dedicated people in hurtful situations. Sure, lcm said he gave people time to get it together. But think about how much people gave up to go fulltime. They didn't want to default on their Corps commitment. Sure, they could have told him no. But with the cult mentality we all had, it just wasn't an option at the time for most. And those who did have the balls to say no had their reputations trashed on public forum by the big forehead himself.
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shortfuse
Interesting thought, Clam. I think the staff probably were afraid to tell Craig about how financially imprudent his decision was because he was a bully and he justified himself with "revelation". As if because it was revelation we could just believe our way through it. I think Howard knew better, but tried to make it work as best he could because the MOG said so. I wonder who eventually persuaded him to get "revelation" to reverse this disasterous course.
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WordWolf
Some of you seem to be suggesting the board possibly lied to people in twi,
or taught things one way (virtuous), then acted another and made THAT their policy (carnal).
Do you guys actually think that?
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Nottawayfer
It was probably the reality of things which hit them. The money was probably running out faster than they were collecting it. By that time they had run off all of the good people who got M&Ad for being homo or who refused to sell their houses. But the "reality" was represented as revelation again. That sucks that he used revelation to control people's lives. TWI would do or say anything to make themselves not sound like the bad guy.
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Nottawayfer
WW, do you really want to know the answer or are you asking in jest?
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WordWolf
Both.
Since some posters seem to be of the conviction that the official releases are
ALWAYS to be trusted,
I wanted to hear what others had to say on the subject.
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excathedra
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justloafing
Not only sick but total control. People died because of that total control IMHO.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/editorial/destruction-self.htm
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Patriot
Oooh - you bring up a sore subject for some of us!
That whole pregnancy thing.....what an awful, evil, scenario. I remember that:
1. We had to notify our overseers about wanting to get pregnant, and OBTAIN PERMISSION from
the BOD.
2. Couldn't start until they said "Go for it" (although we could practice & rehearse
)
3. We had to plan it according to which other WC in our area also planned to get pregnant since it would
mean (2) couples were pregnant at once, thererfore complicating things.
4. Our Region coordinator's wife seemed somewhat resentful, since she herself didn't fit into the parameters
(had to be over 35, grovel, had to have either 0 or 1 child, grovel, etc.).
Unbelievable now that we are so distant from all of that!
No joke - we had to "take turns" getting pregnant with the other WC in our areas. Man, if there was just one of these icons that was "flipping the bird" I would be getting close to sharing what I really feel for TWI in this regard!
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excathedra
how utterly insane. sounds like something a cult would do
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skyrider
The way corps went full-time from August 1995 - October 1998. By March/April of 1998, the bot finally realized that having all corps on payroll was not working out.....and shortly thereafter, made an announcement on corps meetings.....giving corps a few months to make adjustments, find jobs, etc. Of course, the bot sidestepped the "revelation to craig" concept and simply tried to throw a curve and say that the time was ripe to move in another direction.
For clarity.......P. Allen confronted lcm in Feb/Mar of 1999 and left staff and started Waydale. After this incident, one could say that "the Allen case was looming."
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MountainTopCO
What an excellent write-up and great job of putting into practice "luo" - "dismantle the works of the adversary" to "dismantle part by component part" the control scheme of TWI. Hats off to you Catcup.
Most if not all of this material had been taught in the ministry for many years by the original MOG. Same control technique. The only difference was the MOG jr didn't have the charisma of MOG sr and MOG jr's audience wasn't a bunch of young impressionable kids.
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Vyctorya911
I started in 1995 but was never Corps. I left in 2000. I recall hearing about the reduction in pay & the cuts, etc., but as I remember we were only told that it was to ensure that the money wasn't being spent slothfully & they wanted to oversee God's money better.
Vyctorya
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shortfuse
Thanks for clarifying dates - I remember now. :)
I guess my assessment was wrong. I do seem to remember legal matters being a reason we needed to build back up the coffers depleted during that time. I was just wondering the legal stuff they were referencing at that time was actually the lawsuits from Allens and others. The time line suggests not, but on the other hand they almost had to know they were going to get their @sses sued at some point.
Regarding the "revelation" to Craig I seem to recall it came up at the end too. He had to explain it to the whole ministry since he made such a big deal of the Corps needing to be full time. I'm pretty sure that "revelation" was one of the key reasons.
Anyway, thanks for clearing up the timeline for me.
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Belle
Craig explained away the "revelation" with his teachings on "revelation changes" based on the circumstances. I can't remember the examples he used, but it was OT stories - I remember that - where God was going to destroy a country or city and then changed his mind.
He said that God showed him something along the lines of a Water Balloon busting and all these beautiful flowers springing up and a lush field, but then it withered and died as the water was soaked up and evaporated. Something like that, anyway. That was his "change in revelation" that having the WC full time helped the ministry flourish for a bit, but now it's time for them to go back to work and uncover those "hungering and thirsting" that "the devil has hidden" from us.
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Oakspear
What made me scratch my head on the decision to cancel the full-time Way Corps program was LCM's comment that we non-Corps would need to increase the percentage of our giving...that many people were barely tithing. And that if, in a few years, the Corps had to go back to 'secular' work, "we will have failed".
One of his justifications to us that the decision to send them back out to work was beneficial was that the Corps would now be able to win people in the workplace that would not have previously heard 'the Word'.
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Patriot
Belle,
Just to clarify, he mentioned the "water balloon" revelation in light of a $1,000,000 donation they received. He said that he thought that the big donation could keep all the Corps full time for at least another year. That is when he said "God" gave him the balloon revelation showing that the money would immediately cause blossom "spiritually" but then would quickly dry up. A good way to say "Gee, we just don't want to spend money on these Corps who already quit their jobs to go full time." Such a putz!
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