It was a good movie. I'm a big Superman fan. Routh sounds just like Christopher Reeve.
One of my big problems with Superman I and II was the campiness. The bumbling Clark Kent was a big irritant for me. Routh mimics from the old movies. And Lex Luthor surrounded by idiotic sidekicks -- that too, was carried over.
On the positive side, Luthor does have a dark and serious side, which is played well. And Routh's Superman is played very well.
I thought that the storyline was good. Gave us a chance to be reintroduced to the the characters. For the first time in ANY Superman story, the suit looks real. BUT what the hell did they do to the yellow "S" on his cape???? And the "S" symbol on his belt buckle is a bit much.
It is well worth seeing overall. I hope they hop back on and do a sequel very soon.
I can identify every one in that great Neal Adams piece. It's a tough one though, as it includes some pretty obscure characters from Quality comics in the 40's.
And just to keep things accurate-it's DC comics that do Superman, not Marvel
The buckle on the comic version is round. On Routh it has his symbol. And if you turn that comic on his side to reveal the cape, you will see the symbolic "S" but in yellow. The "S" on his chest is proportionally smaller than the comic AND of the '70's and '80's movies
The underwear on the outside has become problematic over time, but you just don't go changing Superman's costume much before it's not really Superman.
Keep in mind that the original costume concept was patterned after a circus performer's, which was as close to a super hero as you could find in 1938. That the original Superman didn't fly, but leap up to an 1/8th of a mile, made him even more circus performer like.
Don't know if I'll see the new Superman, but I hope they figured out a way to give a nod to their movie/TV/comic predecessors.
My favorite moment from the first Superman was Clark rushing to whirl into his Superman persona, only to be confronted by, not a full length phonebooth as in the old style, but the new half booth type. He stops, gives it that up and down puzzled look for a beat, and rushes to find some other private spot to do his thing.
It's moments like that, where the audience can share in the joke, that make the movies fun.
wow... Siskel and Roper just poo-pooed it... (more or less)
I hear good, I hear bad... it's got to have something to do with what one expects going in... I don't expect it to be a realistic movie, heck, it's Superman... I expect a good vs evil storyline and I don't expect everything to tie together perfectly... after all... it's a fantasy, not realism...
Don't know if I'll see the new Superman, but I hope they figured out a way to give a nod to their movie/TV/comic predecessors.
My favorite moment from the first Superman was Clark rushing to whirl into his Superman persona, only to be confronted by, not a full length phonebooth as in the old style, but the new half booth type. He stops, gives it that up and down puzzled look for a beat, and rushes to find some other private spot to do his thing.
It's moments like that, where the audience can share in the joke, that make the movies fun.
Sometimes the comics include little moments like that, too.
There was an incident with a series of disasters, where Lex Luthor was in his office trying to find out
what was going on. One of the secretaries giving him an update was Ms Teshmacher,
and one of the towns hit by an earthquake was Otisburg.
(Me, I loved the 'Otisburg' reference.)
A different comic showed Dick Grayson recounting a story to Batman about trying to dispose
of a bomb when he didn't have his tools on him.
"You said it yourself-there are some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
That was a reference to a VERY well-remembered scene from the 60s Batman movie
that was in the theaters-with Adam West and Burt Ward.
here they are from left to right (and north to south)
Kid Eternity and the 'clerk' -or Mr Keeper
the Ray
Starman
the gent on skis is the Black Racer
Black Condor
J'onn J'onzz-Manhunter from mars
Hawkman 60's version
Hawkgirl 60's version
Lightray
Superman of course
Supergirl
back to the left corner, Green Lantern 60's version
Green Lantern 40's version
Hawkman and Hawkgirl 40's version
the Shining Knight
the Spectre
Red Tornado
Dr Fate
YOU LEFT OUT "VICTORY!"
BTW, the "60s" versions are usually called "the Golden Age" whoevers,
or-if you're old-school- the Earth-2 whoevers.
(No longer applicable since 1985's Crisis on Infinite Earths.)
I'm not sure they were actually active into the 1960s in real time,
but in comics time they had retired following an investigation by
the House Unamerican Activities Committee in the 50s.
The 1985 'crisis' was supposed to simplify everything, but in my opinion just muddied the waters.
As a kid I had no problem with earth1, earth 2, and so on.
I forget where the old Quality Comics heroes DC bought the rights to (Kid Eternity, the Ray, Black Condor, etc.), but it may have been earth 3, as if it matters.
The 1985 'crisis' was supposed to simplify everything, but in my opinion just muddied the waters.
As a kid I had no problem with earth1, earth 2, and so on.
I forget where the old Quality Comics heroes DC bought the rights to (Kid Eternity, the Ray, Black Condor, etc.), but it may have been earth 3, as if it matters.
Kid Eternity was on Earth-S along with Captain Marvel and "the Shazam Squadron of Justice".
The Ray and the Black Condor-along with the rest of the Freedom Fighters-
travelled TO Earth-X to fight the good fight on an earth where the Axis won World War II.
Here was a quick Earth breakdown:
Earth 1: Justice League of America, Silver Age Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman.
Earth 2: Justice Society of America, Golden Age Green Lantern, Flash.
Earth 3: Crime Syndicate of America, sole hero was Alex Luthor (bald with beard).
His son was Alexander Luthor, who was important in the CoIE.
Earth 4: (Never numbered in a comic): Charlton Comics heroes:
Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, the Question, Judomaster.
Earth S: Captain Marvel, the wizard Shazam, the Marvel Family, Ibis the Invincible, Bulletman.
Earth-X: Quality heroes-Uncle Sam, DollMan, Human Bomb, the Ray, Black Condor.
Earth-Prime: superheroes exist in comics only.
Ultraa left it for Earth-1, and the Earth-Prime Superboy started just before CoIE and escaped
it to join the fight.
====
Crisis on Infinite Earths: 1985.
Merged the 5 surviving Earths into 1: 1,2,4,S,X.
First company-wide crossover.
Zero Hour:Crisis in Time: 1995.
Realigned the timestream after CoIE. Parallax (Hal Jordan) attempts to rewrite history.
Infinite Crisis: 2005.
A disjointed melange of characters beating the hell out of each other for no clear
reason. Dragged Superman of Earth 2, and Lois Lane Earth 2 out of heaven so they
could be killed off. Dragged Superboy-Prime and Alexander Luthor out of heaven
so they could be made into villains. Alexander is currently dead, S-Prime is currently
very insane and imprisoned. Arbitrary retcons (rewrites of status quo,
"retroactive continuity") of every kind are introduced, all with the same POS explanation.
first-I know all about the post '86 unifying of worlds.
I'm asking about the time period when they had all the worlds-the 'real' DC ,if you will, at least in terms of my interest.I've never bought into the re vamped Superman, and still perceive the silver age period as the 'real' Superman-but that's just me.
second-
Kid Eternity was canceled before I was born-as were most of the golden age heroes.
You referred to one of the earths as being the home of the 'Quality' heroes from the 40's, that DC bought the rights to. I believe Kid Eternity was one of the Quality comics, and I was curious if you knew how he wound up on earth s instead of the Quality heroes world.
third
I know about the Vertigo series, but haven't read it. Vertigo books are sometimes interesting, and sometimes too self important for their own good. I was not interested in their version of Kid Eternity,
tho I do read 'Fables', one of the few current comic books that actually interest me.
I avoided reading this thread until I saw the movie, just in case there were some spoilers. (There weren't, but better safe than sorry.)
I thought the movie was fine. There were a LOT of homages to Superman 1 and 2, but I got a real kick out of them. And it was nice to see Noel Neill and Jack Larson again. (Noel's cameo in S1 was all but written out in the theatrical cut; her part (as Lois Lane's mom, with Kirk Alyn -- Superman from the old movie serials -- as her dad) shows up in the uncut version. The special effects were great, though there wasn't much "super" action for a 2-1/2 hr film.
I think I understand why hiway was so upset, since there was a MAJOR breach with the Superman - Lois Lane tradition. Hiway, just pretend it's "an imaginary story." (That's what DC used to call stories that broke from standard continuity -- as if all the other stories were "real.")
I honestly don't remember whether Kid E was from Earth-S or Earth-4, and I'm not inclined to go look it up.
WW, one small point: the 60's heroes were "Silver Age," not "Golden Age." (That was the 40's.)
So, when do we get a "World's Finest" (Superman-Batman) team-up?
I thought it was just a horrible movie, George. Dreary, dull, and depressing. It was nice to see Noel Neill, but Good Lord-that's the part they gave her??!! A little more Jack Larson would have helped, but it was good to see him. I'm surprised DC comics allowed the 'breach' you're referring to. It was a bad idea , made worse by the awful writing and the catatonic acting of the character.
Every 'homage' to the first movies fell flat for me. Even the classic last shot, where Reeve would fly off camera flashing his'everythings alright' smile was botched. They repeated the shot but this guy couldn't even manage an expression, which is the whole point of it.
I went back and watched the first Christopher Reeve movie for healing, and was blown away at how wonderful it is, despite it's flaws.
But , hey, them's are just my opinions, and for sure alot of people liked the movie, so whad do I know.
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Tom Strange
Well, well... look at Raf... buying his tickets in advance???
I heard on the radio that it's better to re-watch (or watch) Superman 1 prior to seeing this... is that a fair assessment? (or did they mean S4?)
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Raf
You can re-watch the first and second movies. This one picks up after part II and pretends III and IV never happened (as most of us would like to).
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pawtucket
It was a good movie. I'm a big Superman fan. Routh sounds just like Christopher Reeve.
One of my big problems with Superman I and II was the campiness. The bumbling Clark Kent was a big irritant for me. Routh mimics from the old movies. And Lex Luthor surrounded by idiotic sidekicks -- that too, was carried over.
On the positive side, Luthor does have a dark and serious side, which is played well. And Routh's Superman is played very well.
I thought that the storyline was good. Gave us a chance to be reintroduced to the the characters. For the first time in ANY Superman story, the suit looks real. BUT what the hell did they do to the yellow "S" on his cape???? And the "S" symbol on his belt buckle is a bit much.
It is well worth seeing overall. I hope they hop back on and do a sequel very soon.
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ChasUFarley
Paw - I think they were true to form with the costume...
Here's the movie Superman and the Marvel Comic version, side by side for you...
(You can't tell me that second illustration doesn't take you back! How many can you identify?) :)
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hiway29
I can identify every one in that great Neal Adams piece. It's a tough one though, as it includes some pretty obscure characters from Quality comics in the 40's.
And just to keep things accurate-it's DC comics that do Superman, not Marvel
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hiway29
here they are from left to right (and north to south)
Kid Eternity and the 'clerk' -or Mr Keeper
the Ray
Starman
the gent on skis is the Black Racer
Black Condor
J'onn J'onzz-Manhunter from mars
Hawkman 60's version
Hawkgirl 60's version
Lightray
Superman of course
Supergirl
back to the left corner, Green Lantern 60's version
Green Lantern 40's version
Hawkman and Hawkgirl 40's version
the Shining Knight
the Spectre
Red Tornado
Dr Fate
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ChasUFarley
Bravo!
Well done!
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pawtucket
Chas,
The buckle on the comic version is round. On Routh it has his symbol. And if you turn that comic on his side to reveal the cape, you will see the symbolic "S" but in yellow. The "S" on his chest is proportionally smaller than the comic AND of the '70's and '80's movies
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George Aar
As much as I admire the spandex look, I still find it unsettling that Superman chooses to wear his underwear on the outside...
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hiway29
The underwear on the outside has become problematic over time, but you just don't go changing Superman's costume much before it's not really Superman.
Keep in mind that the original costume concept was patterned after a circus performer's, which was as close to a super hero as you could find in 1938. That the original Superman didn't fly, but leap up to an 1/8th of a mile, made him even more circus performer like.
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topoftheworld
Don't know if I'll see the new Superman, but I hope they figured out a way to give a nod to their movie/TV/comic predecessors.
My favorite moment from the first Superman was Clark rushing to whirl into his Superman persona, only to be confronted by, not a full length phonebooth as in the old style, but the new half booth type. He stops, gives it that up and down puzzled look for a beat, and rushes to find some other private spot to do his thing.
It's moments like that, where the audience can share in the joke, that make the movies fun.
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pawtucket
Noel Neill, who played Lois on the TV version in the 50's is in the movie; as is Jack Larson, who played Jimmy Olsen on the 50's show.
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hiway29
I was saddened by the movie, but don't have the strength to elaborate right now.
I do feel the need to watch the first Christopher Reeve film again to cleanse the experience.
I wanted to like it, I really did.
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Tom Strange
wow... Siskel and Roper just poo-pooed it... (more or less)
I hear good, I hear bad... it's got to have something to do with what one expects going in... I don't expect it to be a realistic movie, heck, it's Superman... I expect a good vs evil storyline and I don't expect everything to tie together perfectly... after all... it's a fantasy, not realism...
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WordWolf
Sometimes the comics include little moments like that, too.
There was an incident with a series of disasters, where Lex Luthor was in his office trying to find out
what was going on. One of the secretaries giving him an update was Ms Teshmacher,
and one of the towns hit by an earthquake was Otisburg.
(Me, I loved the 'Otisburg' reference.)
A different comic showed Dick Grayson recounting a story to Batman about trying to dispose
of a bomb when he didn't have his tools on him.
"You said it yourself-there are some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
That was a reference to a VERY well-remembered scene from the 60s Batman movie
that was in the theaters-with Adam West and Burt Ward.
YOU LEFT OUT "VICTORY!"
BTW, the "60s" versions are usually called "the Golden Age" whoevers,
or-if you're old-school- the Earth-2 whoevers.
(No longer applicable since 1985's Crisis on Infinite Earths.)
I'm not sure they were actually active into the 1960s in real time,
but in comics time they had retired following an investigation by
the House Unamerican Activities Committee in the 50s.
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hiway29
I left out 'Victory'?
What and who the heck are you talking about?
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hiway29
The 1985 'crisis' was supposed to simplify everything, but in my opinion just muddied the waters.
As a kid I had no problem with earth1, earth 2, and so on.
I forget where the old Quality Comics heroes DC bought the rights to (Kid Eternity, the Ray, Black Condor, etc.), but it may have been earth 3, as if it matters.
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WordWolf
Kid Eternity was on Earth-S along with Captain Marvel and "the Shazam Squadron of Justice".
The Ray and the Black Condor-along with the rest of the Freedom Fighters-
travelled TO Earth-X to fight the good fight on an earth where the Axis won World War II.
Here was a quick Earth breakdown:
Earth 1: Justice League of America, Silver Age Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman.
Earth 2: Justice Society of America, Golden Age Green Lantern, Flash.
Earth 3: Crime Syndicate of America, sole hero was Alex Luthor (bald with beard).
His son was Alexander Luthor, who was important in the CoIE.
Earth 4: (Never numbered in a comic): Charlton Comics heroes:
Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, the Question, Judomaster.
Earth S: Captain Marvel, the wizard Shazam, the Marvel Family, Ibis the Invincible, Bulletman.
Earth-X: Quality heroes-Uncle Sam, DollMan, Human Bomb, the Ray, Black Condor.
Earth-Prime: superheroes exist in comics only.
Ultraa left it for Earth-1, and the Earth-Prime Superboy started just before CoIE and escaped
it to join the fight.
====
Crisis on Infinite Earths: 1985.
Merged the 5 surviving Earths into 1: 1,2,4,S,X.
First company-wide crossover.
Zero Hour:Crisis in Time: 1995.
Realigned the timestream after CoIE. Parallax (Hal Jordan) attempts to rewrite history.
Infinite Crisis: 2005.
A disjointed melange of characters beating the hell out of each other for no clear
reason. Dragged Superman of Earth 2, and Lois Lane Earth 2 out of heaven so they
could be killed off. Dragged Superboy-Prime and Alexander Luthor out of heaven
so they could be made into villains. Alexander is currently dead, S-Prime is currently
very insane and imprisoned. Arbitrary retcons (rewrites of status quo,
"retroactive continuity") of every kind are introduced, all with the same POS explanation.
Do not read under any circumstances.
When you mentioned the Shining Knight,
you left out his WINGED HORSE, named VICTORY.
You named everyone else in the picture.
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hiway29
AH-the HORSE-I stand corrected!
and I bow to your break down of the various earths.
But I don't understand why Kid Eternity is on earth-s ,as he is one of the Quality heroes
isn't he?
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WordWolf
First of all, as of 1986, there IS no Earth-S. Everything's on a unified earth.
Second,
I was introduced to Kid Eternity and Mr Keeper back when there was the Shazam!
tv show, and the comic started touring in a winnebago to match it.
Whatever his history was BEFORE that, I wasn't there.
Third,
last I personally saw him,
Mordru had punched his ticket and I figured we'd never see him again.
Fourth,
last I heard, he's just been moved to VERTIGO,
which is the one independent line of hard-to-explain comics and stuff like that.
I forget if he was just "traded" back for Boston Brand-"Deadman"-
or if that was someone else.
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hiway29
first-I know all about the post '86 unifying of worlds.
I'm asking about the time period when they had all the worlds-the 'real' DC ,if you will, at least in terms of my interest.I've never bought into the re vamped Superman, and still perceive the silver age period as the 'real' Superman-but that's just me.
second-
Kid Eternity was canceled before I was born-as were most of the golden age heroes.
You referred to one of the earths as being the home of the 'Quality' heroes from the 40's, that DC bought the rights to. I believe Kid Eternity was one of the Quality comics, and I was curious if you knew how he wound up on earth s instead of the Quality heroes world.
third
I know about the Vertigo series, but haven't read it. Vertigo books are sometimes interesting, and sometimes too self important for their own good. I was not interested in their version of Kid Eternity,
tho I do read 'Fables', one of the few current comic books that actually interest me.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I avoided reading this thread until I saw the movie, just in case there were some spoilers. (There weren't, but better safe than sorry.)
I thought the movie was fine. There were a LOT of homages to Superman 1 and 2, but I got a real kick out of them. And it was nice to see Noel Neill and Jack Larson again. (Noel's cameo in S1 was all but written out in the theatrical cut; her part (as Lois Lane's mom, with Kirk Alyn -- Superman from the old movie serials -- as her dad) shows up in the uncut version. The special effects were great, though there wasn't much "super" action for a 2-1/2 hr film.
I think I understand why hiway was so upset, since there was a MAJOR breach with the Superman - Lois Lane tradition. Hiway, just pretend it's "an imaginary story." (That's what DC used to call stories that broke from standard continuity -- as if all the other stories were "real.")
I honestly don't remember whether Kid E was from Earth-S or Earth-4, and I'm not inclined to go look it up.
WW, one small point: the 60's heroes were "Silver Age," not "Golden Age." (That was the 40's.)
So, when do we get a "World's Finest" (Superman-Batman) team-up?
George
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hiway29
I thought it was just a horrible movie, George. Dreary, dull, and depressing. It was nice to see Noel Neill, but Good Lord-that's the part they gave her??!! A little more Jack Larson would have helped, but it was good to see him. I'm surprised DC comics allowed the 'breach' you're referring to. It was a bad idea , made worse by the awful writing and the catatonic acting of the character.
Every 'homage' to the first movies fell flat for me. Even the classic last shot, where Reeve would fly off camera flashing his'everythings alright' smile was botched. They repeated the shot but this guy couldn't even manage an expression, which is the whole point of it.
I went back and watched the first Christopher Reeve movie for healing, and was blown away at how wonderful it is, despite it's flaws.
But , hey, them's are just my opinions, and for sure alot of people liked the movie, so whad do I know.
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WordWolf
If he was ORIGINALLY from the Charlton "Earth 4" stable, they fitted him into
the Earth-S stuff. This was probably (if they did) done because it made sense to them
to mix him in with the Marvel Family.
After all, the wizard Shazam's base was the Rock of Eternity.
The one time I saw him before CoIE, the first words out of his mouth were
"Why not? After all, I live on the same block as the elders!"
The "elders" being the mystic sextet that gave Marvel his powers-
Solomon (wisdom), Hercules (strength), Atlas (stamina), Zeus (power),
Achilles ("courage"-or invulnerability if you ask the fans),
Mercury (speed). So they wrote him and Mr Keeper into that setting.
I don't know why I wrote it otherwise-must have been carelessness.The old school, JSA "Golden Agers" retired in the 50s supposedly due to the
actions of the House Unamerican Activities Committee.
The FANS filmed one. It's online.
I haven't seen it, but I have seen "Batman:Dead End",
when he faced a truly unique foe.
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