HISTORY OF THE MIDDLE FINGER

[WordWolf]

So she only had half a body? No legs?

But her feet were moving. How could that be?

Since the invention of smaller motors,

LOTS of people have done tricks with

"moving-body-part-severed-from-the-body".

Shop around.

You can buy LOTS of them in retail stores- novelty shops, costumers,

indie S/F companies...

[WordWolf]

Now I was taught Fornicate Under the Consent of the King.

Hm.

I MUST be the only "old-school" AD&D player or DM checking in lately.

This was obviously wrong to the old-schoolers because the system of

feudalism's lowest rung was not the SLAVE,

it was the SERF.

(They did not go "serfing", however. No decent waves over there.)

A serf's lot wasn't THAT different from a slave,

but a serf was BELIEVED TO OWN HIMSELF.

He may have been required-SOME of the time-

to work his lord's farmland,

and desperate times may have been given a weapon and sent to war

(if the lord called for the "fyrd", the LEAST useful military force),

but he was also entitled to protection from bandits and other lords,

and most of his time was his own.

If he didn't want to tend his OWN crops today, he didn't HAVE to.

Also, serfs ate decent meals.

If a lord wanted his work done, he needed his serfs to eat nutritious meals,

or they'd have no energy to do the work.

(They ate better, according to reports, than the average attendee

of the way corps. vpw was not as good a student as he claimed-

at least his European history was lacking.)

If this was NOT true of a lord,

and he MIStreated his serfs,

they could just sneak off and try the next lord.

(They had the LEGAL right to leave, but the current lord often "forgot"

that when he saw fleeing serfs.)

Anyway, except when working FOR the lord, a serf's time was his own.

He could relax, practice a trade-presuming he KNOWS a trade-

farm his own land, etc.

Yes, the "etc" includes what you're thinking.

He did not need a permit from his lord for...thingy.

(If he did, it sure would have made audits a lot more interesting.)

[oilfieldmedic]

Does the finger in my ear count?

[Twinky]

Just to get back (somewhat) to topic - the middle finger is a US thing.

The equivalent sign in Commonwealth countries is to raise the first and second fingers in a V sign. The gesturer needs to remember which way to point the palm - palm back to yourself, back of hand to the person gestured to - this is known as the V sign and it is very rude and offensive.

Hand the other way round (as Churchill used to do) - just the Victory sign. Not offensive.

History of the V sign is that these two fingers, 1st and 2nd, are the two most needed to draw back the bow on the English longbow, which was a much feared and very very deadly weapon in the continual bickering between England and France (viz 1066 etc). The English longbowmen were very greatly feared and extremely accurate over great distances. They were very fast and could shoot 3 or 4 arrows in the time it took the French to fire off one crossbow bolt, which hit hard but didn't go as far. The crossbow took a long time to re-load.

Waving the two fingers was flaunting their ability at their enemies. In Medieval times it was a serious punishment or torture (especially from the French) to cut off a(n English) bowman's index finger. Meant he could not draw against them in the future.

A bit like in OT times cutting off the thumbs and big toes of the enemy. They could not hold a sword, and could not balance effectively on their feet without these.

[WordWolf]

Hello, Twinky.

You might have missed this post...

If you knew a bit more about archery, you'd know this couldn't be correct.

(I've never arched an arrow, but I'm familiar with it intellectually.)

First of all, a bow with a strong pull needs more than one finger to pull.

Typically, IIRC, the European draw-which is the draw used in this story-

is done with a sort-of claw of the first 2 fingers drawing back the bow.

(That's tough on the fingers, so the first 3 might be used, or an

archery glove-thing worn.)

Second,

the Mongolian draw works just as well.

That's an actual "plucking" of the bowstring,

where the index finger and thumb pinch the string and draw.

I gave this thought because Robert Wuhl told this story on a comedy

special fairly recently.

He ends it with the words "Is it true? Doesn't matter..."

and explains why he thinks it doesn't matter.

Of course, as soon as he admitted he didn't know, I snickered

and let it slide.

[Twinky]

WW

I did see this post. However my point was that the one-finger salute is a US thing.

The equivalent in Commonwealth countries, ie, originating from the UK, is the V sign.

(My point is a bit of a derail, really.)

Perhaps both signs come from the same "root" - the amputation of digits by enemies determined to stop bowmen attacking them.

It would seem easier, if amputating digits, to remove the first finger first, before removing the middle finger. Don't think in the Middle Ages they were very squeamish and concerned about the appearance afterwards.

I would think, therefore, that the V sign is the older sign. English bowmen were (in)famous for their skill way before 1415 (famous and very skilled in 1066 and all that).

Whether the middle finger sign is based on the same history or has another origin, I really don't know.

Any Mongolians out there got any suggestions?

[WordWolf]

Perhaps someone can confirm or refute something I read long ago about

two fingers outward becoming "v for victory", famous under Churchill in WW2,

(and then later being "the peace sign",

and two fingers inward-pointing meaning "up your nose".

I've never read any RELIABLE account of "amputate a finger"

for enemies in time of war.

It's always been more efficient to amputate the opponent's HEAD and then

you know for SURE he can't kill any of your men.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

I believe that the proper acronym is:

Fornicating Under Carnal Knowledge, which was a description of sex outside of marriage, rendered by the catholic church....

[WordWolf]

Using cutesy acronyms for stuff is really more of an American phenomenon,

and mostly since the 20th century began.

I forget which language has the word "ficken",

but reliable sources give that as the connection.

[Tom Strange]

shoot... I don't know, but it sounds like Groucho has the two acronyms mixed together...