This has nothing to do with Jim Crow. This is what some states do in an attempt to make the criminals give back to and become more productive members of society; its part of their punishment.
And frankly, overall I see this as a good thing, making them work. Sure beats having them sit in a cell all day doing nothing but think about what kind of crimes they'll commit when they get out.
I mean, the guys aren't where they are because they wore brown shoes after 5 p.m., or used the wrong fork to eat their salad. But, having said that, the concept does seem to appeal to an unthinking, knee-jerk "law and order" mindset and seems to go over very well in states that aren't exactly notorious for being overrun with liberals.
Personally I think prison should be ONLY for people who pose a physical threat to society at large. Keep the violent guys locked away from folks that they could harm. Those who are simple sneak-thieves, con-artists, paper-hangers and the like should be put on house arrest and be forced to pay restitution to their victims and to cover the costs of their prosecution.
Anyway, I'm not going to write my congressman about the chaingangs. If they can get some work out of the guys, I dunno, that doesn't seem all that awful...
Since prisoners aren't *stamping out license plates* (these days),
they should do something to *earn* the room and board
that they are receiving, from actions they chose to do.
And those in NC should be glad they are not under the jurisdiction of Sheriff Arpaio.
Maricopa County, Arizona, is home for over three million Americans. It is a place where dealing with crime figures is the number one election issue. At the center of this community is the self-styled toughest sheriff in the West, Joe Arpaio.
Sheriff Joe has a philosophy of zero tolerance towards crime, which has been embraced by deputies and the community alike. Part of the mission of the sheriff's office is "to operate a safe, constitutional jail system," while critics such as Amnesty International claim the sheriff's tactics are questionable and trample an individual's constitutional rights.
This program provides unique access into the controversial world of "Tent City," where the sheriff and his men rule with an iron fist. He's put men and women into grueling chain gangs; legalized Wild West style posses; built a 1,200+ person prison out of Korean war tents and razor wire in the baking Arizona desert, dressed inmates into black and white striped clothing and pink underwear, given guards use of 75,000 volt electric stun guns, and with an 85% approval rating in the county proudly boasts of being on the leading edge of law enforcement and incarceration.
They have a tent city full of people doing time in Arizona. They make them work. The guy who heads up the thing is known as a hard foot. That must really suck in the 100-plus degree weather. But I don't think it's bad enough because some people keep going back to the place.
Jim Crow? Because the prisoners were all black? Get used to it. Yes, hurry back to the midwest where it's closer to lily white. You'll feel more comfy. Fact is, black youths have turned to crime for a litany of reasons.
FYI, (as of 2000) the US is 12.8% black, North Carolina 21.9%. Georgia is almost 30%, Louisiana 33%, Mississippi 36.8%.
The Midwest? Depends on where you mean.
Indiana 8.8%, Minnesota 4.1%, Nebraska 4.3%
Here in Louisiana we have a large prison population, the largest per capita in the US, I've heard. I'm afraid Geo's suggestion wouldn't pare that down by much, or by nearly as much as other places, but that's a guess.
For the most part, prisons are penal, not rehabilative (though our notorious Angola has made huge strides toward being truly rehabilative). Chain gangs seem like strong penal medicine. I'm all for it.
My family is midwestern, I lived there for years. In my experience, racism lives everywhere, but it's stronger up there than 'down heah'.
well, I guess you missed my intentions of the Jim Crowe thing....It just seems backwards..No, I dont think they should have a poshy cells and I understand how the liberals, and human rights activist would or are frowned upon when one see's body's waisting away..I know some states actualy educate thier criminals to make them more fit for life after thier sentencing...THe reason for punishment (probation-ha) is for them to view the wrongs and also to penetrate thier thinking that .....breaking the law is wrong..
Its a visual thing, I have never seen in real life...I real life I never have seen someone hold a gun to someones body..only on tv...too weird....
Yep, I think there should be a price for Criminal Behavior...I am sure it helps to pay thier cell space, food,striped uniforms and I wont forget the men who keep them behaving...while on a public highways. I wouldnt want my young kids seeing that daily on route to thier schools....In Illinois they are located far away from towns.....I mean in the boonies....Thats how I grew up...For 52 years I have only seen a prison maybe 5x.
But, thank you for sharing on how it hits you...Dave,I appreciate your time and your thoughts...
God Bless Sheriff Joe!!! Don't belive all the media hype you read about him, the truth of it isn't as it reads. Everyone man, woman and youth on his chain gangs have added their name to his list to be able to go out and work. NONE of them are made to do it, they request to be put on the chain gangs to get some time outside.
The pink underware wearing was started due to all the theft of jail 'undies' when perps left the jail. It's helped saved us taxpayers quite a bit since he started the program.
Some years ago Joe even put in video cameras in the intake and booking areas and broadcast it live on the net. Anyone who wanted could go to the website and watch to see no perps were mistreated as they were claiming. The whiners then said that was wrong to do and the pressure was kept on till he took them down. Now again they can whine about how bad it is and there is no video to prove them wrong. I used to watch quite often and never saw any of them treated bad. I did see one go off on the 5 guys booking him in to the jail and they quickly got him down and strapped to a chair, so he couldn't take any more swings at them. When he started spitting at them, they put a hood on his head. I saw nothing wrong with that and he deserved what he got.
These are NOT good people in jail folks. They are the people that are raping, robbing and killing the people of Phoenix. They are more than aware of what tent city is like before they did the crime. With the massive crime over the past years, especially now that we are getting overun by illegals, what is Joe to do? He's got them in the same tents our military uses and there are cooling fans attached. There is no more room in the jail, so tent city picks up the excess. Also, only convicted perps are put in tent city, those waiting for their day in court are in the jail.
It's not such a stigma in today's society to be seen 'in the orange' alongside the road. I doubt that many were embarrassed.
One of my adoptive grandpas was on a chain gang. Whatever they did to him, he didn't mess around with people in general society ever again. Screwed up his wife and kids, though.
Anyway, because of his chain gang experience he was able to get on a crew building the highway system...and there he retired.
It's been proven that in men (and sometimes women) it is a great anxiety reducer to work hard.
I'm as liberal as they get in most people's eyes, but I'll tell ya, I don't know what else can be done. If the prisoners are out of the institution, they need to be restrained...especially alongside the road...because it's been tried and failed to do otherwise. I don't know that I see a need for weapons once a prisoner is restrained.
The mind and soul rot if not exercised hard in fresh air. I know...I'm fighting the battle against the results of doing otherwise. I've also been held in solitary confinement for 4 days (yeah...I know...nothing like actually being in prison...but it was bad enough to me), and locked in other confined situations for days at a time. It's not the same as solitude, I can tell ya that!
My husband works with a whole lot of parolees. Many of them have done 20+ years. There's no such thing as preparing them for the outside. Being out just does not compute. Especially if they were not allowed out on work release...because they do not comprehend how free people think, act, interact, live, etc. It literally does not make sense to them that people on the outside get away with so much horribleness towards one another...so they don't expect it when it happens...and don't know how to handle it, either. The majority of stuff people pull on each other outside would be worthy of many horrors on the inside.
The problem I see with the chain gang (and other work programs) is the pay. People need to know how what they do is valued. I am NOT advocating minimum wage work or something. I AM advocating that an hourly wage be assigned to the job...and then the cost of keeping them be figured and shown to them much like expenses (insurance, 401k and other stuff) are shown on a pay stub. As it stands now, people mostly see something like $20/month pop up on their in-house account so they can buy candy, stamps, paper, and other stuff in the commissary. This isn't teaching anybody a darned thing about how to live outside.
I could go on and on about this...so I'll shut up now.
It is counted as a type of community service here.
A successful prisoner can lessen his time in jail .
We have overcrowding that is so unreasonable it has been determined in violation of the states codes.. wher do ya put them all?
so they do weekend stints on the highway or city streets and are under house arrest the rest of the week if they have a job.
We have had several escapes they do not shoot them when they run but got t tell ya they find them again and nw they have an escape charge which is a federal crime and no more fresh air for a long long time.
These are all fine points, mainly I think of the day to day pictures of what kids see......
Geeesh, If I was alarmed and taken back but what I saw..
Little boy to mommy, "Mommy why are those men holding guns in there hands"
Mommy to son, "well son, these men did bad things and broke the Law", they have to be punished and they are put into little bedrooms and then they go out to work so they can pay thier rent"
son to mommy, "Mommy, I promise I wont chew gum in school anymore and I promise never to hurt anyone..I dont want to go to prison."
Little boy to mommy, "Mommy why are those men holding guns in there hands"
Mommy to son, "well son, these men did bad things and broke the Law", they have to be punished and they are put into little bedrooms and then they go out to work so they can pay thier rent"
son to mommy, "Mommy, I promise I wont chew gum in school anymore and I promise never to hurt anyone..I dont want to go to prison."
okay...
Sorry -- I'm not getting your point. (I know -- I'm slow -- but -----)
George, I think I mostly agree with you. Except if a violent offender is set free and committs a violent crime a second time, he should be put to death.
Beyond that, make the rest of the criminals pay restitution. If they can't or won't get a job, put them to work cleaning the parks, public restrooms, whatever. Put them under the supervision of a public official and have them do home repairs/shovel snow/cut grass for the elderly and disabled. Whatever it takes.
And, no, I wouldn't be offended or upset if my child saw criminals being punished by having to work. I think the visual deterrent would be beneficial. It would also help them to see there is some justice in this world - a consequence for one's actions. I think most kids are intelligent enough to understand the difference between normal childhood misbehavior and an adult who has committed a crime.
I remember driving home one day and there were right to life protestors standing on the street corners holding up signs of aborted fetuses. I'd MUCH rather have my kids see people working on a chain gang, than ever have to see THAT again!
chain gangs serve a purpose... your tax dollars would likely have to pay for the labor that they were doing otherwise... we've got 'em here in Texas (and I'm pretty sure they're in other "midwest" states as well)... hey, if you've got free labor, use it! ...although it has nothing to do with rehabilitation, but then I don't think the prisons try to portray that it does...
well, I guess you missed my intentions of the Jim Crowe thing....It just seems backwards..
heh heh... then you probably should've just said "it seems backwards"... folks were just responding to your "Jim Crow" comment (which is entirely about race BTW)...that's all
This doesn't have anything directly to do with chain gangs, but I recall a routine Richard Pryor did where he said that his movie "Bustin' Loose" was filmed in an actual prison in Arizona. At first he wondered why there are no black people who actually live in Arizona, yet there were 20,000 of them in this prison. He wondered what was up with that.
Then he said he got to talk with some of the inmates. One conversation went like this...
RP: What are you in for?
man: I killed my family.
RP: Why?
man: Cause dey was home.
All of a sudden he was glad there was a penitentiary for these individuals.
Never been in a maximum security prison, but I'd want to do some work if I was. Sure, chain gangs are humiliating, but so is prison itself. I'd be scared if I was manacled next to the prison nutcase, though.
Not just any old prisoner gets to go out on work release. The prison nut nut case wouldn't, for sure. That being said, johniam...is there something you haven't told us...? (I'm teasing ya.)
Part of the insanity of my childhood was to tell us kids that we'd go to jail if we didn't behave...and they'd drive us by the juvenile facilities and show us exactly what they meant...and that they'd actually do it. Once my grandmother even put me out of the car in front of the place for girls and left me standing there to 'think about' what I'd done. We had no doubt in our minds that every time we heard a siren, they were coming after us for something we thought we got away with doing. It was very frightening. I totally understand the concern here about what one might tell one's children after coming upon a chain gang.
A parent or other adult in such a situation would hopefully say something like, "The people you see out there are in jail because they did things to other people like hurt them or steal from them. Some of them do things like sell drugs to children. People like you and I don't have to worry about going to jail because we would never do such things. That's why Mommy and Daddy teach you right from wrong."
Children are easy, really...if you trust how you're raising them. :) And I agree with Abi...it's a good object lesson. Children do need to know these things...and they need to understand that there are consequences for certain actions even for adults...as much as they need to understand there are rewards for certain other actions even for adults. Our job as parents is to raise our children to be prepared to be adults. If children don't see and grasp how things work for adults, they tend to think, "I can't wait until I'm grown up so I can do whatever I please!" And although they may never consider robbery or murder or dope pedaling as an option, they may meet folks along their path who would or have...and if it's at a particularly vulnerable place in their lives, they may not be equipped to handle such a situation if they don't know about and at least partially grasp adult realities before they face adult situations.
There are plenty of "COP" shows to watch...right..
I think working outside the walls of confinement is a very welcoming thin to them, also they are labouring to help pay the taxes which cover the overhead....im not opposed to that at all..
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GarthP2000
This has nothing to do with Jim Crow. This is what some states do in an attempt to make the criminals give back to and become more productive members of society; its part of their punishment.
And frankly, overall I see this as a good thing, making them work. Sure beats having them sit in a cell all day doing nothing but think about what kind of crimes they'll commit when they get out.
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George Aar
I'm kinda ambivalent about this too.
I mean, the guys aren't where they are because they wore brown shoes after 5 p.m., or used the wrong fork to eat their salad. But, having said that, the concept does seem to appeal to an unthinking, knee-jerk "law and order" mindset and seems to go over very well in states that aren't exactly notorious for being overrun with liberals.
Personally I think prison should be ONLY for people who pose a physical threat to society at large. Keep the violent guys locked away from folks that they could harm. Those who are simple sneak-thieves, con-artists, paper-hangers and the like should be put on house arrest and be forced to pay restitution to their victims and to cover the costs of their prosecution.
Anyway, I'm not going to write my congressman about the chaingangs. If they can get some work out of the guys, I dunno, that doesn't seem all that awful...
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dmiller
Since prisoners aren't *stamping out license plates* (these days),
they should do something to *earn* the room and board
that they are receiving, from actions they chose to do.
And those in NC should be glad they are not under the jurisdiction of Sheriff Arpaio.
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Nottawayfer
They have a tent city full of people doing time in Arizona. They make them work. The guy who heads up the thing is known as a hard foot. That must really suck in the 100-plus degree weather. But I don't think it's bad enough because some people keep going back to the place.
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TheEvan
Jim Crow? Because the prisoners were all black? Get used to it. Yes, hurry back to the midwest where it's closer to lily white. You'll feel more comfy. Fact is, black youths have turned to crime for a litany of reasons.
FYI, (as of 2000) the US is 12.8% black, North Carolina 21.9%. Georgia is almost 30%, Louisiana 33%, Mississippi 36.8%.
The Midwest? Depends on where you mean.
Indiana 8.8%, Minnesota 4.1%, Nebraska 4.3%
Here in Louisiana we have a large prison population, the largest per capita in the US, I've heard. I'm afraid Geo's suggestion wouldn't pare that down by much, or by nearly as much as other places, but that's a guess.
For the most part, prisons are penal, not rehabilative (though our notorious Angola has made huge strides toward being truly rehabilative). Chain gangs seem like strong penal medicine. I'm all for it.
My family is midwestern, I lived there for years. In my experience, racism lives everywhere, but it's stronger up there than 'down heah'.
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likeaneagle
well, I guess you missed my intentions of the Jim Crowe thing....It just seems backwards..No, I dont think they should have a poshy cells and I understand how the liberals, and human rights activist would or are frowned upon when one see's body's waisting away..I know some states actualy educate thier criminals to make them more fit for life after thier sentencing...THe reason for punishment (probation-ha) is for them to view the wrongs and also to penetrate thier thinking that .....breaking the law is wrong..
Its a visual thing, I have never seen in real life...I real life I never have seen someone hold a gun to someones body..only on tv...too weird....
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likeaneagle
geeesh- Its only a comment not worthy punishment....thxs...I should of known not comment on something so fragile........
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dmiller
Hiya Likeaneagle. :) Hope my earlier comments weren't too callous.
You say you think it is a *fragile* thing, and I've got mixed opinions as well.
One side of me says keep them in a cell, with no privilidges/ no tv/ etc.
The other side says *make them work* there at the prison.
(But a jailor friend of mine here in town tells me that that isn't really much of an option (these days).
And another side of me says -- get them out in the community, and do something profitable.
And if you get folks outside of the prison walls to do community work
(regardless of how insignificant that *work* may be),
they are outside the walls, and meebe a rifle is needed to remind them that they are outside by *grace*.
Interestingly enough -- yesterday's paper here in Duluth
did an article about an 89 year old lady who is a prolific painter.
She was married to a sheriff in another county near here,
and their *house* was an apartment connected to the jail.
I forget how many years she and he lived there -------.
But when the interview digressed from her painting, to her life before
(living in such close proximity to all those criminals), she did say that
every last prisoner was eager to get out, breathe some fresh air, see the sun and trees,
regardless of the *stigma* of being on a chain gang.
She never mentioned rifles, nor she did say how *hardened* they were.
But she did say that they all liked getting out, even if briefly.
Maybe that isn't the situation where you are.
Maybe some of the folks on the gang there felt humiliated
to be in the public view in that situation, wearing prison stripes and all.
But I still think it a positive step.
It amazes me to hear what it costs to feed and house one person in jail.
Let them *earn* back a bit of that if they can.
Well -- that's my IMO. I hope it makes sense to you.
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likeaneagle
DMiller-
Yep, I think there should be a price for Criminal Behavior...I am sure it helps to pay thier cell space, food,striped uniforms and I wont forget the men who keep them behaving...while on a public highways. I wouldnt want my young kids seeing that daily on route to thier schools....In Illinois they are located far away from towns.....I mean in the boonies....Thats how I grew up...For 52 years I have only seen a prison maybe 5x.
But, thank you for sharing on how it hits you...Dave,I appreciate your time and your thoughts...
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BikerBabe
God Bless Sheriff Joe!!! Don't belive all the media hype you read about him, the truth of it isn't as it reads. Everyone man, woman and youth on his chain gangs have added their name to his list to be able to go out and work. NONE of them are made to do it, they request to be put on the chain gangs to get some time outside.
The pink underware wearing was started due to all the theft of jail 'undies' when perps left the jail. It's helped saved us taxpayers quite a bit since he started the program.
Some years ago Joe even put in video cameras in the intake and booking areas and broadcast it live on the net. Anyone who wanted could go to the website and watch to see no perps were mistreated as they were claiming. The whiners then said that was wrong to do and the pressure was kept on till he took them down. Now again they can whine about how bad it is and there is no video to prove them wrong. I used to watch quite often and never saw any of them treated bad. I did see one go off on the 5 guys booking him in to the jail and they quickly got him down and strapped to a chair, so he couldn't take any more swings at them. When he started spitting at them, they put a hood on his head. I saw nothing wrong with that and he deserved what he got.
These are NOT good people in jail folks. They are the people that are raping, robbing and killing the people of Phoenix. They are more than aware of what tent city is like before they did the crime. With the massive crime over the past years, especially now that we are getting overun by illegals, what is Joe to do? He's got them in the same tents our military uses and there are cooling fans attached. There is no more room in the jail, so tent city picks up the excess. Also, only convicted perps are put in tent city, those waiting for their day in court are in the jail.
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dmiller
Likeaneagle -- thank you for the kind response!. :)
But (uh-oh --- here it comes!!) I have a question (if I may?) :)
Seriously -- don't you think that seeing a *gang* out on the highway might help (in some small way)
in deterring kids from doing *wrong*, if they see that??
I dunno. Just curious.
Or as Song used to say --- *Just a thot*.
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CoolWaters
It's not such a stigma in today's society to be seen 'in the orange' alongside the road. I doubt that many were embarrassed.
One of my adoptive grandpas was on a chain gang. Whatever they did to him, he didn't mess around with people in general society ever again. Screwed up his wife and kids, though.
Anyway, because of his chain gang experience he was able to get on a crew building the highway system...and there he retired.
It's been proven that in men (and sometimes women) it is a great anxiety reducer to work hard.
I'm as liberal as they get in most people's eyes, but I'll tell ya, I don't know what else can be done. If the prisoners are out of the institution, they need to be restrained...especially alongside the road...because it's been tried and failed to do otherwise. I don't know that I see a need for weapons once a prisoner is restrained.
The mind and soul rot if not exercised hard in fresh air. I know...I'm fighting the battle against the results of doing otherwise. I've also been held in solitary confinement for 4 days (yeah...I know...nothing like actually being in prison...but it was bad enough to me), and locked in other confined situations for days at a time. It's not the same as solitude, I can tell ya that!
My husband works with a whole lot of parolees. Many of them have done 20+ years. There's no such thing as preparing them for the outside. Being out just does not compute. Especially if they were not allowed out on work release...because they do not comprehend how free people think, act, interact, live, etc. It literally does not make sense to them that people on the outside get away with so much horribleness towards one another...so they don't expect it when it happens...and don't know how to handle it, either. The majority of stuff people pull on each other outside would be worthy of many horrors on the inside.
The problem I see with the chain gang (and other work programs) is the pay. People need to know how what they do is valued. I am NOT advocating minimum wage work or something. I AM advocating that an hourly wage be assigned to the job...and then the cost of keeping them be figured and shown to them much like expenses (insurance, 401k and other stuff) are shown on a pay stub. As it stands now, people mostly see something like $20/month pop up on their in-house account so they can buy candy, stamps, paper, and other stuff in the commissary. This isn't teaching anybody a darned thing about how to live outside.
I could go on and on about this...so I'll shut up now.
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coolwaters
i usually agree on what you post here
but.......... being paid when in prison! i think not
they owe me money and when they get out they should pay it back to the socity that have been supporting them for years
do the crime do the time and not easy time
i wish we had chain gangs in maine
surley our taxes would go down
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CoolWaters
Oh, sorry...I didn't mean to pay them...I meant to assign a certain wage and then show them where it all went.
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pond
It is counted as a type of community service here.
A successful prisoner can lessen his time in jail .
We have overcrowding that is so unreasonable it has been determined in violation of the states codes.. wher do ya put them all?
so they do weekend stints on the highway or city streets and are under house arrest the rest of the week if they have a job.
We have had several escapes they do not shoot them when they run but got t tell ya they find them again and nw they have an escape charge which is a federal crime and no more fresh air for a long long time.
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likeaneagle
These are all fine points, mainly I think of the day to day pictures of what kids see......
Geeesh, If I was alarmed and taken back but what I saw..
Little boy to mommy, "Mommy why are those men holding guns in there hands"
Mommy to son, "well son, these men did bad things and broke the Law", they have to be punished and they are put into little bedrooms and then they go out to work so they can pay thier rent"
son to mommy, "Mommy, I promise I wont chew gum in school anymore and I promise never to hurt anyone..I dont want to go to prison."
okay...
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dmiller
Sorry -- I'm not getting your point. (I know -- I'm slow -- but -----)
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likeaneagle
DM
(((((((HUGS)))))))
I am not realy trying to drive a point..I understand everyones perspective...
your a scholar and a gentlemen...:)
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Abigail
George, I think I mostly agree with you. Except if a violent offender is set free and committs a violent crime a second time, he should be put to death.
Beyond that, make the rest of the criminals pay restitution. If they can't or won't get a job, put them to work cleaning the parks, public restrooms, whatever. Put them under the supervision of a public official and have them do home repairs/shovel snow/cut grass for the elderly and disabled. Whatever it takes.
And, no, I wouldn't be offended or upset if my child saw criminals being punished by having to work. I think the visual deterrent would be beneficial. It would also help them to see there is some justice in this world - a consequence for one's actions. I think most kids are intelligent enough to understand the difference between normal childhood misbehavior and an adult who has committed a crime.
I remember driving home one day and there were right to life protestors standing on the street corners holding up signs of aborted fetuses. I'd MUCH rather have my kids see people working on a chain gang, than ever have to see THAT again!
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Galen
Very sheltered I see.
I have held a gun on other folks, and I have experienced someone else holding a gun aimed at me.
Of course I have also exchanged fire with fellow 'church-service attendees', that we were/are at war with them.
:)
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Tom Strange
chain gangs serve a purpose... your tax dollars would likely have to pay for the labor that they were doing otherwise... we've got 'em here in Texas (and I'm pretty sure they're in other "midwest" states as well)... hey, if you've got free labor, use it! ...although it has nothing to do with rehabilitation, but then I don't think the prisons try to portray that it does...
heh heh... then you probably should've just said "it seems backwards"... folks were just responding to your "Jim Crow" comment (which is entirely about race BTW)...that's all
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johniam
This doesn't have anything directly to do with chain gangs, but I recall a routine Richard Pryor did where he said that his movie "Bustin' Loose" was filmed in an actual prison in Arizona. At first he wondered why there are no black people who actually live in Arizona, yet there were 20,000 of them in this prison. He wondered what was up with that.
Then he said he got to talk with some of the inmates. One conversation went like this...
RP: What are you in for?
man: I killed my family.
RP: Why?
man: Cause dey was home.
All of a sudden he was glad there was a penitentiary for these individuals.
Never been in a maximum security prison, but I'd want to do some work if I was. Sure, chain gangs are humiliating, but so is prison itself. I'd be scared if I was manacled next to the prison nutcase, though.
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CoolWaters
Not just any old prisoner gets to go out on work release. The prison nut nut case wouldn't, for sure. That being said, johniam...is there something you haven't told us...?
(I'm teasing ya.)
Part of the insanity of my childhood was to tell us kids that we'd go to jail if we didn't behave...and they'd drive us by the juvenile facilities and show us exactly what they meant...and that they'd actually do it. Once my grandmother even put me out of the car in front of the place for girls and left me standing there to 'think about' what I'd done. We had no doubt in our minds that every time we heard a siren, they were coming after us for something we thought we got away with doing. It was very frightening. I totally understand the concern here about what one might tell one's children after coming upon a chain gang.
A parent or other adult in such a situation would hopefully say something like, "The people you see out there are in jail because they did things to other people like hurt them or steal from them. Some of them do things like sell drugs to children. People like you and I don't have to worry about going to jail because we would never do such things. That's why Mommy and Daddy teach you right from wrong."
Children are easy, really...if you trust how you're raising them. :) And I agree with Abi...it's a good object lesson. Children do need to know these things...and they need to understand that there are consequences for certain actions even for adults...as much as they need to understand there are rewards for certain other actions even for adults. Our job as parents is to raise our children to be prepared to be adults. If children don't see and grasp how things work for adults, they tend to think, "I can't wait until I'm grown up so I can do whatever I please!" And although they may never consider robbery or murder or dope pedaling as an option, they may meet folks along their path who would or have...and if it's at a particularly vulnerable place in their lives, they may not be equipped to handle such a situation if they don't know about and at least partially grasp adult realities before they face adult situations.
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likeaneagle
There are plenty of "COP" shows to watch...right..
I think working outside the walls of confinement is a very welcoming thin to them, also they are labouring to help pay the taxes which cover the overhead....im not opposed to that at all..
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