While Wayers proudly call VP Wierwille "Doctor," the biographies in his books seldom mention the source of his degree (though the wording leads some readers to believe that he received it from Princeton). Perhaps TWI is embarrassed because Wierwille received his Th. D. in 1948 from Pike's Peak Bible Seminary in Manitou Springs, Colorado (in the Colorado Springs area). In its checkered 60 year history, it has never been accredited or recognized by any reputable agency. It had no resident instruction and no published list of faculty.
Wierwille once defended Pike's Peak Seminary by claiming that its president at the time he attended was Dr. H. Ellis Lininger who "had been the head of the Department of Education for the state of Colorado" (The Way-- Living in Love, p. 189). However, the Colorado Department of Education informed us that Lininger never did head this department as Wierwille claimed.
(Wierwille also claimed that "I took everything I could take at the Moody Bible Institute, too, through their correspondence courses" (TWLIL, p.175). However, although Moody records the names of all the students who completed courses since 1901, Wierwille's name never appears, indicating that if he took any courses, he never completed a single one.)
It is apparent that Wierwille greatly exaggerated his educational achievements in an effort to appear more knowledgeable and credible as a Bible teacher.
Note: The photo shows the entire "seminary," not just some kind of back house. The street address of Pike's Peak Seminary is 41 Lincoln. This picture is taken from Lincoln street. The other side of the house is perched on the side of a semi-wooded hill, and has no street access.
"(Wierwille also claimed that "I took everything I could take at the Moody Bible Institute, too, through their correspondence courses" (TWLIL, p.175). However, although Moody records the names of all the students who completed courses since 1901, Wierwille's name never appears, indicating that if he took any courses, he never completed a single one.)"
Before the cornfield conman began his cult, he was known as Rev. Wierwille...of course he was fired by his denomination for sexual indiscretions (in case you didn't know)
Grouch, can you give your source for this? I hadn't heard it before. You have my respect from back in Waydale times, but I don't think you were there...or were you?
Grouch, can you give your source for this? I hadn't heard it before. You have my respect from back in Waydale times, but I don't think you were there...or were you?
Where?...at Pikes Peak seminary?
No...I showed up for orientation but there was nobody home!...just kidding
I think it was from Karl Kohler's book..."the cult that snapped", where I read the documentation of Veepee's extra curricular activities at his old denomination...he was having an affair with a woman in the church and got caught...he was told to resign or get fired...that's when he made up the story about quitting because of a rift with the foreign mission money...I'm 90% sure that's where I read it....It was from an interview with some bigwig from his former denomination that Karl did....it's been awhile since I read the book...like I said, I'm 90% sure that's where I first heard it...but I have heard it numerous times from various sources...let me work on it a bit and see if I can come up with the actual documentation of this incident...maybe someone else remembers better than me...
What the heck happened to Pike's Peak Seminary, tho? Anyone know?
I dunno Chas...I googled it but only came up with the anti-way sites that deride it as being phoney...
Jeeziz...when the whole picture comes into focus on how docvic pulled off this con job...you gotta laugh! It's hysterical...I mean, if you don't laugh, you might cry...and laughings a better medicine for the soul.
WOW - but there's no history on the net about the building, etc. Usually you can find some history about such a building. I found that pic in just about 8 minutes after doing a Google on the town's name and "historic buildings". I thought it was weird that they essentially have the same shot of the building - what looks like a fire escape.
VPW's master's degree was from an Ivy League college, wasn't it? (Princeton?) Anyhow - how do you fake that? :blink:
The Peacock Bed Breakfast has a fascinating and colorful history. Built in 1897, the building has seen a variety of lifestyles, from local bordello to missionary training center.
How funny just like the Ohio Limb outside ofColumbus in the '80's
No. VPW's master was from Princeton Theological Seminary, a totally different entity from Princeton University.
Not quite so, Jim... sorry.... Here's a souce... (see bold font, below.)
Princeton University is a coeducational private university located on an extensive campus mostly in the Borough of Princeton and partly in the Princeton Township in New Jersey, United States. Both the township and the borough colloquially make up "Princeton, New Jersey." The university also has an exclave in West Windsor Township, New Jersey.
Princeton University is self-described as the fourth-oldest institution of higher education in the United States[1] and is one of the eight Ivy League universities. Originally founded at Elizabeth, New Jersey in 1746 as the College of New Jersey, it was relocated to Princeton in 1756 and renamed "Princeton University" in 1896.
Princeton has traditionally focused on undergraduate education and academic research, though in recent decades it has increased its focus on graduate education and now offers a large number of top-rated professional Master's degrees and PhD programs in a range of subjects. At over eleven million volumes, its library is among the world's largest university libraries. Among many others, areas of research include anthropology, geophysics, entomology, and robotics, while the Forrestal Campus has special facilities for the study of plasma physics and meteorology.
Originally a Presbyterian institution, Princeton is now non-sectarian and makes no religious demands on its students.[2]The university has ties with Princeton Theological Seminary and the Westminster Choir College of Rider University.[3]
...but I have heard it numerous times from various sources...let me work on it a bit and see if I can come up with the actual documentation of this incident...maybe someone else remembers better than me...
The "numerous times from various sources" bothers me...but I think you recognize the problem here. Thanks, Grouch, for your efforts, and for recognizing my question as honest.
ot quite so, Jim... sorry.... Here's a souce... (see bold font, below.)
It certainly appears I was wrong. I was going from a conversation I had with a lady at my wife's church. She was telling us of a member that graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary and she pointed out that it wasn't related to Princeton.
It certainly appears I was wrong. I was going from a conversation I had with a lady at my wife's church. She was telling us of a member that graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary and she pointed out that it wasn't related to Princeton.
Well, I thought you were right at first, but then had a "hmmmmm" moment, and did a quick Google...
I do know some people who have gone there - I figured it was legit. So, not to derail this, but perhaps his doctorate degree was sorta "bought" but how about his masters? Perhaps not.
Also, didn't "Uncle" Harry pay for his education or pay off his loans or something to that effect?
Or perhaps he thought he was getting a legit degree, just like we thought we might at the various Way campuses.
I knew they were in the process of trying to get accreditation when I went into the Family Corps, but I didn't care about the piece of paper. I just wanted to learn. I have no idea what VP's mindset was--whether he was duped into thinking the program at Pike's Peak was worthwhile or if he was intentionally "buying" an advanced degree. It would seem we can only speculate.
It certainly appears I was wrong. I was going from a conversation I had with a lady at my wife's church. She was telling us of a member that graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary and she pointed out that it wasn't related to Princeton.
And she was bascially correct. The main "relationship" between these two schools is geographical and incidental. They are located in the same town and share the name Princeton.
This Princeton stuff can be confusing.
Wierewille went to Princeton Theological Seminary not Princeton University.
Princeton Theological Seminary and Princeton University are indeed two separate entities. Always have been. Princeton Theological Seminary never was or never has been a part of Princeton University.
The "ties" referred to on the Wiki site are that these two separate schools share in certain educational and extracurricular activities since they are located in the same town.
They are still very much separate entities and separate schools. They have completely separate boards and separate campuses.
Princeton University is an Ivy League school. Princeton Theological Seminary is not. In no way is degree from Princeton Theological Seminary the same as one from Princeton University.
Although Princeton Theological Seminary is not an Ivy League School with the same Ivy League clout as PU, it is still very much respected as a School of Theology.
The "numerous times from various sources" bothers me...but I think you recognize the problem here. Thanks, Grouch, for your efforts, and for recognizing my question as honest.
...it doesn't really bother me one way or the other... of course, I've read the part about the "affairs with parishoners" in different places through the years, though I don't know about veepee being fired from his church... but like I said, it doesn't bother me any either way, and I'm not going to go search the internet to find out where I read it before... leave it out of the equation and he would still be what he was...
...and personally... I'm not naive enough to think that he didn't start fooling around with parishoners until he met up with the hippies... I think it was something he had been practicing for a long time... hippies just made it easier...
...it doesn't really bother me one way or the other...
Nothing wrong with that; we will each make our own judgements according to whatever standards we use. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't bother Groucho a bit either. But I also know that he recognizes that not everyone uses the same standards. And, if he can find some documentation, he is not going to refuse to find it by feeding me a line like "well if you had it, you wouldn't believe it anyway", as someone else has done to me on a similar subject.
My question to Groucho was not a denial or an argument. It was a question.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Looks like my old, off campus college fraternity house...
Ya gotta click on it to enlarge it and "really see" this institute for higher learning.
Maybe I could get them to send me a sheepskin too...
...Dr. Groucho?
PS-By the way, this wasn't the back of the house...this was the main entrance!
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Goey
Wierwille's doctorate carries about as much weight as an ordination
from the Universal Life Church.
This phoney, mail-order doctorate speaks loudly as to his dishonest and deceptive
character, but not so much as to what he actually taught. His teachings stand
or fall on thier own merit.
However, the indictment against his character by his phoney doctorate, his plaigarsim,
and his abusiveness is certainly grounds to question and critically examine what he taught.
It would be foolish not to IMO
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Jim
The only "higher learning" was done on the 3rd floor fire escape.
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dmiller
From John Juedes' Site ---
"(Wierwille also claimed that "I took everything I could take at the Moody Bible Institute, too, through their correspondence courses" (TWLIL, p.175). However, although Moody records the names of all the students who completed courses since 1901, Wierwille's name never appears, indicating that if he took any courses, he never completed a single one.)"
Ya just gotta LOVE this site!!
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ChasUFarley
What the heck happened to Pike's Peak Seminary, tho? Anyone know?
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ChasUFarley
Do you think this is the same building?
This pic is from a B&B called The Peacock...
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Lifted Up
Grouch, can you give your source for this? I hadn't heard it before. You have my respect from back in Waydale times, but I don't think you were there...or were you?
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rascal
I have been told that by more than one person as well, lifted.
It was one of the chief reasons that niether wierwille nor his organization ever got much respect at the local level.
I don`t know why it would suprise anybody though, he had to start the adultery and lying at some point <_<
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GrouchoMarxJr
Where?...at Pikes Peak seminary?
No...I showed up for orientation but there was nobody home!...just kidding
I think it was from Karl Kohler's book..."the cult that snapped", where I read the documentation of Veepee's extra curricular activities at his old denomination...he was having an affair with a woman in the church and got caught...he was told to resign or get fired...that's when he made up the story about quitting because of a rift with the foreign mission money...I'm 90% sure that's where I read it....It was from an interview with some bigwig from his former denomination that Karl did....it's been awhile since I read the book...like I said, I'm 90% sure that's where I first heard it...but I have heard it numerous times from various sources...let me work on it a bit and see if I can come up with the actual documentation of this incident...maybe someone else remembers better than me...
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GrouchoMarxJr
I dunno Chas...I googled it but only came up with the anti-way sites that deride it as being phoney...
Jeeziz...when the whole picture comes into focus on how docvic pulled off this con job...you gotta laugh! It's hysterical...I mean, if you don't laugh, you might cry...and laughings a better medicine for the soul.
...I'll bet the place needs a paint job by now...
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bliss
Actually, Groucho, I think it HAS been repainted. That pic Chas sent really looks like it. Many B&B's around there too.
I have climbed Pikes Peak, and every time I would try to find this exclusive, yet elusive, college, I mean seminary....
Never could find it.
What is interesting, is that this "seminary" was in Manitou Springs, which is the like the spookiest, spiritualist, wacko town around. :blink:
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templelady
The Peacock Bed and Breakfast would indeed be the building at 41 Lincoln Street in Manitou--the Former Pike's Peak Seminary
http://www.80829.com/Asp/businessview.asp?NUMBER=253
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ChasUFarley
WOW - but there's no history on the net about the building, etc. Usually you can find some history about such a building. I found that pic in just about 8 minutes after doing a Google on the town's name and "historic buildings". I thought it was weird that they essentially have the same shot of the building - what looks like a fire escape.
VPW's master's degree was from an Ivy League college, wasn't it? (Princeton?) Anyhow - how do you fake that? :blink:
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Jim
No. VPW's master was from Princeton Theological Seminary, a totally different entity from Princeton University.
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ckeer
From the Peacock Bed Breakfast Website.
The Peacock Bed Breakfast has a fascinating and colorful history. Built in 1897, the building has seen a variety of lifestyles, from local bordello to missionary training center.
How funny just like the Ohio Limb outside ofColumbus in the '80's
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dmiller
templelady and ckeer --- Thanks!!
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ChasUFarley
Not quite so, Jim... sorry.... Here's a souce... (see bold font, below.)
Princeton University is a coeducational private university located on an extensive campus mostly in the Borough of Princeton and partly in the Princeton Township in New Jersey, United States. Both the township and the borough colloquially make up "Princeton, New Jersey." The university also has an exclave in West Windsor Township, New Jersey.
Princeton University is self-described as the fourth-oldest institution of higher education in the United States[1] and is one of the eight Ivy League universities. Originally founded at Elizabeth, New Jersey in 1746 as the College of New Jersey, it was relocated to Princeton in 1756 and renamed "Princeton University" in 1896.
Princeton has traditionally focused on undergraduate education and academic research, though in recent decades it has increased its focus on graduate education and now offers a large number of top-rated professional Master's degrees and PhD programs in a range of subjects. At over eleven million volumes, its library is among the world's largest university libraries. Among many others, areas of research include anthropology, geophysics, entomology, and robotics, while the Forrestal Campus has special facilities for the study of plasma physics and meteorology.
Originally a Presbyterian institution, Princeton is now non-sectarian and makes no religious demands on its students.[2]The university has ties with Princeton Theological Seminary and the Westminster Choir College of Rider University.[3]
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Lifted Up
The "numerous times from various sources" bothers me...but I think you recognize the problem here. Thanks, Grouch, for your efforts, and for recognizing my question as honest.
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Jim
It certainly appears I was wrong. I was going from a conversation I had with a lady at my wife's church. She was telling us of a member that graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary and she pointed out that it wasn't related to Princeton.
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ChasUFarley
Well, I thought you were right at first, but then had a "hmmmmm" moment, and did a quick Google...
I do know some people who have gone there - I figured it was legit. So, not to derail this, but perhaps his doctorate degree was sorta "bought" but how about his masters? Perhaps not.
Also, didn't "Uncle" Harry pay for his education or pay off his loans or something to that effect?
Just curious....
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Linda Z
Or perhaps he thought he was getting a legit degree, just like we thought we might at the various Way campuses.
I knew they were in the process of trying to get accreditation when I went into the Family Corps, but I didn't care about the piece of paper. I just wanted to learn. I have no idea what VP's mindset was--whether he was duped into thinking the program at Pike's Peak was worthwhile or if he was intentionally "buying" an advanced degree. It would seem we can only speculate.
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Goey
And she was bascially correct. The main "relationship" between these two schools is geographical and incidental. They are located in the same town and share the name Princeton.
This Princeton stuff can be confusing.
Wierewille went to Princeton Theological Seminary not Princeton University.
Princeton Theological Seminary and Princeton University are indeed two separate entities. Always have been. Princeton Theological Seminary never was or never has been a part of Princeton University.
History of Princeton Theological Seminary
History of Princeton University
The "ties" referred to on the Wiki site are that these two separate schools share in certain educational and extracurricular activities since they are located in the same town.
They are still very much separate entities and separate schools. They have completely separate boards and separate campuses.
Princeton University is an Ivy League school. Princeton Theological Seminary is not. In no way is degree from Princeton Theological Seminary the same as one from Princeton University.
Although Princeton Theological Seminary is not an Ivy League School with the same Ivy League clout as PU, it is still very much respected as a School of Theology.
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Tom Strange
...it doesn't really bother me one way or the other... of course, I've read the part about the "affairs with parishoners" in different places through the years, though I don't know about veepee being fired from his church... but like I said, it doesn't bother me any either way, and I'm not going to go search the internet to find out where I read it before... leave it out of the equation and he would still be what he was...
...and personally... I'm not naive enough to think that he didn't start fooling around with parishoners until he met up with the hippies... I think it was something he had been practicing for a long time... hippies just made it easier...
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Lifted Up
Nothing wrong with that; we will each make our own judgements according to whatever standards we use. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't bother Groucho a bit either. But I also know that he recognizes that not everyone uses the same standards. And, if he can find some documentation, he is not going to refuse to find it by feeding me a line like "well if you had it, you wouldn't believe it anyway", as someone else has done to me on a similar subject.
My question to Groucho was not a denial or an argument. It was a question.
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