Wierwille's final mistake

[annam]

If you are talking specifically about why the "About The Way" forum continues to revist topics on a regular basis, then here is a possible answer.

Most of the people here at GSC suffered abuse of some sort or another at the hands of TWI or are still suffering.

You don't find many people who would tell a fifty year old woman that she should "get over" being repeatedly raped by her father for 10 years. It is accepted that this event leaves life long residue in her life. Some of that residue is easier for her to put in perspective than others, but that life event will always influence at some level decisions she makes in certain areas of her life.

For some of us healing comes when we find we are not alone in our sufferings. for some of us healing comes when we find a place where we can vent as much and as often as we want. For some of us healing comes when we are able to comprehend the why behind the abusers actions. For some of us healing comes when we can help others who are in the place now we once were. For some of us healing comes when we find out that rather than being "crazy" we are actually on of many with the same experience and reactions. For many healing is a combination of some or all of the above and others I haven't mentioned or thought of.

All of us, because we are individuals, are more prone to being hurt by certain behaviors than by others. All of us, because we are individuals, react differently to a given situation. This means that some people experience deep scars from an incident where another may be able to brush off the same incident with little difficulty. Some of us tend to "take the bull by the horns" when dealing with life's problems, some of us tend to retreat.

It is highly presumptuous for anyone to decide that another has had "long enough" to "get over it". This does not mean that we as friends are not allowed to point out methods by which help may be found in the "moving on" Process. This does not mean that we as friends cannot say "you need to get a handle on this and move forward, you are in a pit". What it does mean is that we as friends and fellow voyagers in this life have a responsibility to approach the scarred with compassion and empathy as well as "tough love" where needed.

GSC was established first and foremost, as a place where the goings on of TWI both bad and good could be examined and discussed. This site brings answers and healing to many. As long as I feel a need for my participation, as long as I see that there are still people wresting with what happened in their lives, as long as I feel my interaction with my fellow posters may help them heal or understand, I will continue to post here.

If any poster feels that this site or the "About The Way" forum in particular is of no use thay have the right to state such or avoid it all together. What they do not have a right to do, IMO, is denegrate other posters who wish to participate for whatever reasons

That is all very understandable and you have a very good way of putting it...... Jesus didn't sit around and talk with people about how badly they were hurt or abused, nor did he direct any of his harsh words toward anyone one but the devil and those who were his children. He called it like he saw it then pointed people to the Holy WORD, he also called his disciples on the carpet when they strayed from those teachings.... so far I have only addressed those posts that have dealt with gossip those that are mean spirited. If we are to be like Christ we have to forgive and go on with him, he is the only way to healing, maybe if these posts were followed by some real healing words... i.e Bible .....it would not seem so offensive.

I have been on the couch and it never healed me... only forgiveness and studying, and the biggy.....doing . trying to do , what it says has set any lasting peace in my heart. Go confront these bad way people in person, that would at least be more like Christ . He walked right up to the Pharisees looked them in the eye and gave them the word....Man can you imagine the witness to those who were around and caught up in it? I'll bet he saved a few in those moments.. and the others that didn't follow were just not ready....."MY sheep hear my voice". Love you guys

Annam,

I'm sorry I thought you had a real concern.

twi is still around and hurting and using people.

One example.

Last year I witnessed (via the phone) as a dying man was witnessed too by an innie. As he lay dying, the innie, with leadership support of one or two states, drilled the Law of Believing to him. The man died and all the innie says is "Well, you can tell people The Word but you can't make them believe."

The poor man needed a friend. Instead twi made him an object to be "witnessed too".

I meant no offense to you in my earlier post.

None taken

[rascal]

Annam, Jesus didn`t seem to have any use for people that hurt the innocent, for those religious leaders who hurt people in God`s name.

Terrible terrible things were done to some of us in God`s name in twi. ...those of us foolish enough to trust that these men were honest. Men who claimed to be speaking for God, inflicted great harm and used the authority garnered as his leader to sate the lusts of their bellies.

This is a place where God works to heal the pain inflicted by unscrupulous people. It is not gossip or back biting if it really happened . I am sorry that it offends you that we talk about what these people did. I think that you ought to be offended by the people who actually committed the crimes against us...shrug.

Jesus publicly warned people about those individuals. He warned about wolves in sheeps clothing and false prophets.... He also called the jerks who inflicted harm the most vile names that he could think of when confronting them.

I see no difference in what we do here. I hope that you will stay around long enough to see and understand the great good and healing that is to be found here.

[WordWolf]

Annam, Jesus didn`t seem to have any use for people that hurt the innocent, for those religious leaders who hurt people in God`s name.

Terrible terrible things were done to some of us in God`s name in twi. ...those of us foolish enough to trust that these men were honest. Men who claimed to be speaking for God, inflicted great harm and used the authority garnered as his leader to sate the lusts of their bellies.

This is a place where God works to heal the pain inflicted by unscrupulous people. It is not gossip or back biting if it really happened . I am sorry that it offends you that we talk about what these people did. I think that you ought to be offended by the people who actually committed the crimes against us...shrug.

Jesus publicly warned people about those individuals. He warned about wolves in sheeps clothing and false prophets.... He also called the jerks who inflicted harm the most vile names that he could think of when confronting them.

I see no difference in what we do here. I hope that you will stay around long enough to see and understand the great good and healing that is to be found here.

[WordWolf]

If we are to be like Christ we have to forgive and go on with him, he is the only way to healing, maybe if these posts were followed by some real healing words... i.e Bible .....it would not seem so offensive.

The GSC is a website that welcomes all people, primarily twi survivors, but will accept anyone who wishes to

post, preferably in a civil manner.

It is NOT a requirement that the poster be a Christian. That would deny a voice to those non-Christians

who felt driven from Christianity after certain lewd fellows of the baser sort AMONG Christians

(and leaders appointed under twi) did things and said things that no human should.

I recommend giving this a once-over:

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7913

I have been on the couch and it never healed me... only forgiveness and studying, and the biggy.....doing . trying to do , what it says has set any lasting peace in my heart.

Sorry to hear that.

Unless the therapist was an incompetent- sadly, that happens in ALL professions, not just

religious "leaders" like twi people-

then what you got out of it was equal to what you put into it.

That is, those who saw a therapist after twi often had their first chance

to evaluate in a reasonable, normal manner, what they were told to do and told to think,

and to come to their own conclusions-without the listener influencing them-

as to what was healthy and what was unhealthy in it all.

That has great value to people.

So long as they are ready to do such evaluation, and need to do so.

Me,

I didn't need that SPECIFIC help, since twi's touch on my life was very light. I just needed

distance and time. Others, under more restrictions and under longer "sentences" of twi,

found such assistance necessary and valuable. (Plus, I found the posts at the GSC provided

the information I needed to complete closure.)

Similarly, if I DID need such help, but was not ready to evaluate rules, restrictions, actions,

and so on, I could have gone in for sessions all century, and accomplished nothing, because

I was not ready to put INTO the sessions what I needed to get OUT of the sessions.

[Ham]

Go confront these bad way people in person, that would at least be more like Christ .

I suppose if a person could pole vault over the "barb wire fence" into the "compound"..

I'd do it, but Linder already has enough to do, running people out of the cemetary, and dispatching unwanted pets..

hmm. Maybe a phone call will do..

"der vey inter nationall.."

"connect me to rosie please"

"your name, sir?"

"ham."

"ham, ham, lessee.. let me check da list. Ah. Well, mr. ham, rosie is not in today. would you like to leave a message.."

All I can say.. confront them? Personally? You've got to be kidding.. they are HIDING from confrontation.. perhaps this little "den of iniquity" is a constant reminder that the "problems" just aren't going to go away, by themselves.

about the only one I ever knew who actually had the chance was a then staffer who only got an"ahhhm sorry I hurt your feelins.." then more of the same manipulation..

Edited June 20, 2007 by Mr. Hammeroni

[Ham]

Actually, there was another time that they hope they won't have to repeat..

At least one lawyer had the chance to confront a few of them in a deposition duing the A**en proceedings against der vey...

and with the answers they gave, the judge deemed the case against them to be worthy of being placed before a jury.

New folks appear to arriving here every day.. recent departures.. it appears that all the "old" people "with an ax to grind" simply dying off won't fix their little "problems" either..

[Ham]

They have that place locked up so tight that it can't pass gas.

In the event you gave the keyboard person a good name, you'd probably have to recite the correct secret squirrel security code to get through..

[Bolshevik]

Sounds like a classic case of rationalization by a Wierwille sympathiser.

I dunno Waysider, I'm no vpw apologist, but I could think that's a possibility. Just one power hungry dude taking advantage of another.

. . .

All I can say.. confront them? Personally? You've got to be kidding.. they are HIDING from confrontation.. perhaps this little "den of iniquity" is a constant reminder that the "problems" just aren't going to go away, by themselves.

. . .

Damned straight they do.

[templelady]

Annam,

What you seem to fail to realize or be unwilling to accept, is that fact that many of us here do not agree with what you

1. HAve decided scripture says
   
2. Have deciced scripture doesn't say
   
3. Have decided is the correct course of action in a given situation based on YOUR understanding of scripture
   
4. Have decided is the incorrect course of action in a given situation based on YOUR understanding of scripture
   

YOu might find it easier here at GSC if you accepted that

1. Scripture often speaks to different people in different ways
   
2. Scripture and God often point out a different set of actions to different people in the same circumstances
   
3. God treats all his children as the individuals he created, speaking to each in a manner they best understand, and appointing tasks to each that will best assist each individual in advancing spritually.
   

This does not mean that there are not abosolutes in God's thinking, Adultery, Murder, Worshiping of idols, Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit are absolute NO's yesterday, today and tomorrow.

But much of the rest of life has as great deal to do with location, time, events, and the individual as to the "correct" way to go.

Per God and Jesus Christ, we ARE NOT the judges of another's walk. We can disagree, we can state why we disagree, we can state how we would react, we can state why we would react that way, but to add to any of these the caveat that this is how God says it is to be done, is IMO, wrong except if it is clearly stated as opinion.

Even when a person commits, say, adultery, while we would be right to say God views adultery as a sin, we would be wrong if we claimed to know what God wants the Aldulterer to do in terms of steps toward repentance, and getting back in fellowship. The steps to the goal will be different on a case by case basis and between God and the individual.

Edited June 20, 2007 by templelady

[annam]

Annam, Jesus didn`t seem to have any use for people that hurt the innocent, for those religious leaders who hurt people in God`s name.

Terrible terrible things were done to some of us in God`s name in twi. ...those of us foolish enough to trust that these men were honest. Men who claimed to be speaking for God, inflicted great harm and used the authority garnered as his leader to sate the lusts of their bellies.

This is a place where God works to heal the pain inflicted by unscrupulous people. It is not gossip or back biting if it really happened . I am sorry that it offends you that we talk about what these people did. I think that you ought to be offended by the people who actually committed the crimes against us...shrug.

Jesus publicly warned people about those individuals. He warned about wolves in sheeps clothing and false prophets.... He also called the jerks who inflicted harm the most vile names that he could think of when confronting them.

I see no difference in what we do here. I hope that you will stay around long enough to see and understand the great good and healing that is to be found here.

I'm not offended!

Annam,

What you seem to fail to realize or be unwilling to accept, is that fact that many of us here do not agree with what you

1. HAve decided scripture says
   
2. Have deciced scripture doesn't say
   
3. Have decided is the correct course of action in a given situation based on YOUR understanding of scripture
   
4. Have decided is the incorrect course of action in a given situation based on YOUR understanding of scripture
   

YOu might find it easier here at GSC if you accepted that

1. Scripture often speaks to different people in different ways
   
2. Scripture and God often point out a different set of actions to different people in the same circumstances
   
3. God treats all his children as the individuals he created, speaking to each in a manner they best understand, and appointing tasks to each that will best assist each individual in advancing spritually.
   

This does not mean that there are not abosolutes in God's thinking, Adultery, Murder, Worshiping of idols, Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit are absolute NO's yesterday, today and tomorrow.

But much of the rest of life has as great deal to do with location, time, events, and the individual as to the "correct" way to go.

Per God and Jesus Christ, we ARE NOT the judges of another's walk. We can disagree, we can state why we disagree, we can state how we would react, we can state why we would react that way, but to add to any of these the caveat that this is how God says it is to be done, is IMO, wrong except if it is clearly stated as opinion.

Even when a person commits, say, adultery, while we would be right to say God views adultery as a sin, we would be wrong if we claimed to know what God wants the Aldulterer to do in terms of steps toward repentance, and getting back in fellowship. The steps to the goal will be different on a case by case basis and between God and the individual.

you might be nuts

Annam, Jesus didn`t seem to have any use for people that hurt the innocent, for those religious leaders who hurt people in God`s name.

Terrible terrible things were done to some of us in God`s name in twi. ...those of us foolish enough to trust that these men were honest. Men who claimed to be speaking for God, inflicted great harm and used the authority garnered as his leader to sate the lusts of their bellies.

This is a place where God works to heal the pain inflicted by unscrupulous people. It is not gossip or back biting if it really happened . I am sorry that it offends you that we talk about what these people did. I think that you ought to be offended by the people who actually committed the crimes against us...shrug.

Jesus publicly warned people about those individuals. He warned about wolves in sheeps clothing and false prophets.... He also called the jerks who inflicted harm the most vile names that he could think of when confronting them.

I see no difference in what we do here. I hope that you will stay around long enough to see and understand the great good and healing that is to be found here.

your crazy too

[annam]

Annam,

What you seem to fail to realize or be unwilling to accept, is that fact that many of us here do not agree with what you

1. HAve decided scripture says
   
2. Have deciced scripture doesn't say
   
3. Have decided is the correct course of action in a given situation based on YOUR understanding of scripture
   
4. Have decided is the incorrect course of action in a given situation based on YOUR understanding of scripture
   

YOu might find it easier here at GSC if you accepted that

1. Scripture often speaks to different people in different ways
   
2. Scripture and God often point out a different set of actions to different people in the same circumstances
   
3. God treats all his children as the individuals he created, speaking to each in a manner they best understand, and appointing tasks to each that will best assist each individual in advancing spritually.
   

This does not mean that there are not abosolutes in God's thinking, Adultery, Murder, Worshiping of idols, Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit are absolute NO's yesterday, today and tomorrow.

But much of the rest of life has as great deal to do with location, time, events, and the individual as to the "correct" way to go.

Per God and Jesus Christ, we ARE NOT the judges of another's walk. We can disagree, we can state why we disagree, we can state how we would react, we can state why we would react that way, but to add to any of these the caveat that this is how God says it is to be done, is IMO, wrong except if it is clearly stated as opinion.

Even when a person commits, say, adultery, while we would be right to say God views adultery as a sin, we would be wrong if we claimed to know what God wants the Aldulterer to do in terms of steps toward repentance, and getting back in fellowship. The steps to the goal will be different on a case by case basis and between God and the individual.

Heres a thought ...everyone is all up in arms about my being offended or an offense, saying "we all have our own opinions and" we should be tolerant of each others,......guess what ? Take your own advice people, if your so right then what are you all upset about.......and who the hell cares if you are.....so far I have stated my opinion and you alllllll have chopped it to bits.. talk about way heads.

[Bolshevik]

Maybe pour yesterday's coffee out and start a new pot?

[annam]

Maybe pour yesterday's coffee out and start a new pot?

someone has peed in it.

[Bolshevik]

someone has peed in it.

Where's that new waitress?

[annam]

Where's that new waitress?

[waysider]

someone has peed in it.

I'll bet it still tastes better than "stretched" coffee! :B)

[annam]

I'll bet it still tastes better than "stretched" coffee! :B)

hey .... stretch this

[waysider]

hey .... stretch this

:dance: :dance: :dance:

Was that stretched enough?

[annam]

:dance: :dance: :dance:

Was that stretched enough?

bravo

[rascal]

Annam, We are attempting to have a civil discussion here. There are sensible counter points to your fingers pointed and slurs cast. You seem to percieve this as an attack. Please read the comments in the spirit that they were offered.

[WordWolf]

You're presuming he cares about intelligent discussions.

He got to make his declarations, and when intelligent discussions-including disagreements-

were offered, he just labelled them and began tossing out insults and jokes.

Seems his interest in "discussion" ends there.

[Ham]

Annam,

I haven't seen this properly addressed:

All I can say.. confront them? Personally? You've got to be kidding.. they are HIDING from confrontation.. perhaps this little "den of iniquity" is a constant reminder that the "problems" just aren't going to go away, by themselves.

Or this:

They have that place locked up so tight that it can't pass gas.

In the event you gave the keyboard person a good name, you'd probably have to recite the correct secret squirrel security code to get through..

Only thing I can say for twi, is by the time they concede, or are forced to come out of their little hole and deal with the people they've harmed.. they're gonna have some pretty rancid "coffee" to drink. I'm not so sure it will really be "coffee" if some people here have anything to say about it..

I'm not heartless, I wouldn't serve it cold..

Honestly, I think this "brew" is mostly of twi's own making.. maybe you ought to talk to the chef about the quality of the coffee..

[Ham]

I can understand their frame of thought here..

Assuming someone COULD crack open their airtight, hermetically sealed, whitewashed casket in a cornfield..

I think about the only anwers one would get would not be much different than what some of Hitler's henchmen gave-

"I'm NOT responsable. I was just followin da orders.."

Yep.. they've got some pretty nasty brew to chug down..

[annam]

Annam,

I haven't seen this properly addressed:

Or this:

Only thing I can say for twi, is by the time they concede, or are forced to come out of their little hole and deal with the people they've harmed.. they're gonna have some pretty rancid "coffee" to drink. I'm not so sure it will really be "coffee" if some people here have anything to say about it..

I'm not heartless, I wouldn't serve it cold..

Honestly, I think this "brew" is mostly of twi's own making.. maybe you ought to talk to the chef about the quality of the coffee..

Ok people , you are taking this too far.....I am really tired of this conversation and I will say one last thing before someones head explodes......Vengeance is mine saith the Lord and I'll leave that to him I m sure I can't do the job as well as he can. I'm not called to it....Paul said he wanted one thing known among the brethren Christ and him crucified. Take it how you want it you will anyway .

If you want to recount stories and warn others yes that is Good, as far as getting to the Way staffers the was an extreme notion just to emphasize how futile this whole mess of trashy post is. The Brew as you put it, is of all of our making....truly we played a part in all of this now and in the past, I'm not saying we are to blame nor have I ever condoned TWI I don't even like the sound of TWI...... I really hope they are all blessed because God commands that I bless and not curse. TO state the facts is one thing and I have some of my own that I could throw in the mess, but to call the Way people involved in the story bad names and use the bitter language and such is just not in line with what God would have for us. It is clear that many here have not and seem to refuse to forgive, and that my dear ones is the first step to healing.......We have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God , it is for our own good that God instructs us not to be angry.....if I have miss read this anger then I confess my mistake and ask for forgiveness, but ask yourselves all of you........how is that mistake made so easily? Look at some of this stuff.....look around , spend sometime and see what you think.

You all may know what it is your trying to convey, but their are others who would interpret this as acidic. If thats what you want then who can stop you?

retaliate if you wish, I'll probably read it, I pray that God will give me the wisdom not to reply again , for it seems useless to bring to you my point of view.

P.S. BY the way I'm a she not a he..........he he he he he he he

[annam]

You're presuming he cares about intelligent discussions.

He got to make his declarations, and when intelligent discussions-including disagreements-

were offered, he just labelled them and began tossing out insults and jokes.

Seems his interest in "discussion" ends there.

where were the insults......I see the joke ....did I call u stupid or ignorant, or pigheaded or infantile or ridiculous or foolish ? Naw I never insulted I just spoke the truth and you couldn't take it so you got mad..... There how's that for insulting?