TWI STILL teaches they are the ONLY ones with the truth ...
Old old inaccurate spin.
TWI STILL teaches they are the ONLY ones with the truth, and vpw quite boldly declared that
the material he took from other Christians-Leonard, Bullinger, Stiles, Kenyon-
and assembled into a class without adding to it-
was the sole source of information, given by God Himself,
and not taught since the first century Christians.
How can they teach they are the ONLY ones with the truth, when the teachings were a compilation of others' works that Dr. Wierwille himself admitted, when he said "lots of the stuff I teach is not original"?
I suppose when he says something that doesn't fit with your theories it means nothing to you.
As long as twi still teaches that they are the only true household of God, they continue the lie that they are the only ones with the truth. I have many friends who will not leave twi even though they are miserable because they think twi is only place with the truth.
I make the distinction that twi believers (we used to be one) believed that twi was the best, most accurate, most rightly - divided ministry out there. There is no question in my mind that I, and I think most of us, thought that. But that is different than being the ONLY group with the truth. ONLY means the ONLY SOURCE, which obviously, we were not. I rejoiced when I saw other groups teach the truth.
Examples of this are many. Books by Bullinger, E.W. Kenyon, Stiles, Leonard, Cliffe, and others, groups like Leonards, and the Jehovah Witnesses, who taught truths like that twi taught. Add to this ooodles of other Christian books. I used to watch Fred Price all the time while I was in twi, and really enjoy it. Even the church of my youth teaches truth.
Wordwolf if you can't see the distinction, you are either mentally retarded or engaging in spinning again.
I think the latter, because you're an intelligent guy.
I make the distinction that twi believers (we used to be one) believed that twi was the best, most accurate, most rightly - divided ministry out there. There is no question in my mind that I, and I think most of us, thought that. But that is different than being the ONLY group with the truth. ONLY means the ONLY SOURCE, which obviously, we were not.
The TWI answer, ALWAYS and still to this day,
is that different groups have SOME of the truth, but fail in OTHERS.
They have a little truth-but IF ONLY they didn't have that error that invalidated their teachings!
No trinitarian has a brain in their skull!
Non-trinitarians are few and are idolators of different types.
So, twi spin is STILL "nobody else has ENOUGH of the truth to effectively have "Truth."
As long as twi still teaches that they are the only true household of God, they continue the lie that they are the only ones with the truth. I have many friends who will not leave twi even though they are miserable because they think twi is only place with the truth.
You have eyewitnesses, but some of us don't count eyewitness testimony....
We're not saying Wierwille thought we were the only ones with any of the truth, we're saying that Wierwille declared TWI to be the MOST accurate.
From Elena W's book, not an exact quote (hey, it's been 20 years, maybe someone has the book and can look it up):
Said Wierwille, "Putting it all together, and making it fit, that was the unique* part."
Trouble was, Wierwille was missing the most important part, the I Cor. 13 part. It was the Mary and Martha story all over again. Fretting over details, looking real godly, but missing the bigger picture.
Very narcissistic to substitute the gnat, so he wouldn't have to face the camel.
-- Shaz
* I know that word is wrong, but the idea was something like that....
We're not saying Wierwille thought we were the only ones with any of the truth, we're saying that Wierwille declared TWI to be the MOST accurate.
Shaz, that's not what Wordwolf said. But since you mention that, I agree with you. And I agree with the statement. When I was involved with twi, I thought they were the most accurate. BTW, this is not an uncommon phenomena ... I bet you a Quarter Pounder that most folks involved in religious groups think their group is the best, most accurate way there is.
In case anyone here is as deficient as Oldies in reading comprehension,
I'll recap a few of the last few posts.
(Those with short memories may appreciate this as well.)
=======================
Shazdancer said
QUOTE(shazdancer @ Jul 6 2006, 08:07 PM) *
"Oldies,
We're not saying Wierwille thought we were the only ones with any of the truth, we're saying that Wierwille declared TWI to be the MOST accurate."
Oldies replied
"Shaz, that's not what Wordwolf said."
WordWolf's actual answer-which was a reporting of twi's opinion-not his own-
was
"The TWI answer, ALWAYS and still to this day,
is that different groups have SOME of the truth, but fail in OTHERS.
So, twi spin is STILL "nobody else has ENOUGH of the truth to effectively have "Truth."
Oldies apparently missed where my answer and Shaz's answer aligned.
That my answer was factually correct was borne out by Penguin, who
addressed the current teachings as follows:
"As long as twi still teaches that they are the only true household of God, they continue the lie that they are the only ones with the truth. I have many friends who will not leave twi even though they are miserable because they think twi is only place with the truth."
It can seem baffling that Oldies seems to be dedicated to denying this was EVER taught,
but Physicists are used to observing things that seem to make no sense to them,
and I expect we can adjust our expectations accordingly.
I left TWI in the latter part of 2002 and although I never heard TWI say or teach that they were the only way or the only ones who taught the truth, they certainly implied that they were by remarks such as:
Donna Martindale's tape concerning the plane crash
TWI members saying that they were above the earth
Other churches did not teach the truth like we do (TWI) all they want is your money
TWI was God's children and if you left you would no longer be under the protection of God's household. something bad will happen to you if you leave TWI
I have never heard remarks like this from any church that I have ever attended. Red Flag for determining if they are a cult or not!
C'mon guys, I know you can put out those phrases that were used at theTwitsville Compound
So, twi spin is STILL "nobody else has ENOUGH of the truth to effectively have "Truth."[/i]
More spin.
twi taught that when and where one rightly divides the word of truth, they have the true word. So a group, any group, according to twi, may rightly divide the word in one area, and wrongly divide the word in another.
That would mean, groups can and do teach and have truth when they rightly divide the word.
Wordwolf stated:
They STILL teach they are the ONLY ones with the truth
Still is spin. I think that statement is inaccurate and deceptive.
I think Shaz (not Wordwolf) said it honestly and accurately, and I agree:
We're not saying Wierwille thought we were the only ones with any of the truth, we're saying that Wierwille declared TWI to be the MOST accurate.
but Oldies' defense is that it was illogical for them to do so.
Oldies keeps assuming that whenever twi contradicted twi,
the part he doesn't want to believe never was said, or never happened.
twi taught that when and where one rightly divides the word of truth, they have the true word. So a group, any group, according to twi, may rightly divide the word in one area, and wrongly divide the word in another.
That would mean, groups can and do teach and have truth when they rightly divide the word.
That's technically true according to the pfal class.
And it's also technically true that lcm claimed his reasons for demanding unwavering
loyalty were exclusively for spiritually-sound reasons.
And it's also technically true that an official twi spokesman claimed that twi keeps
their thralls informed on everything.
It's true they SAID these things.
And once they said them, they gave them all the attention a dog gives to a fireplug.
So, once twi finished saying that, they then proceeded to go thru what still remains
TO THIS DAY their policy-
that non-twi Christians-even the ones who left and teach most of the same things-
do not have The Truth because what they teach is not ALL 100% Truth,
which only twi has and even 99.44% Truth is not good enough,
and shame on you for even thinking so.
Wordwolf stated:
"They STILL teach they are the ONLY ones with The Truth."
Still is spin. I think that statement is inaccurate and deceptive.
You may misread and misinterpret that all you want.
However,
the eyewitness report of how things are proceeding now contradicts
how you WISH to interpret things.
Penguin said
"As long as twi still teaches that they are the only true household of God, they continue the lie that they are the only ones with the truth. I have many friends who will not leave twi even though they are miserable because they think twi is only place with the truth."
Of course,
we're supposed to discard Penguin's eyewitness account for the opinion
of Oldiesman who hasn't attended a meeting in a decade
because Oldiesman wants to believe he's correct.
We're also supposed to discard the fact that the two statements-
Shaz and WordWolf's statements-
don't contradict each other unless one is busy trying to whitewash twi
and excuse them from puffing up themselves and slamming other
I remember being a big butt-kisser of LCM in the old days when he was just getting over the POP and entering the minefields of paranoia. He kind of liked me. I had no idea of the sexual affairs and adultery then. If someone had told me I would not have believed them. In fact, when first hearing about them I did not believe them and I had left TWI more than three years already.
It was only after seeing repeated charges and accusations from all over and lawsuits piling up that it sunk in.
I wish someone else had been picked by VPW like John Schoenheit, who had been fired for opposing adultery. Ot John Shroyer, who quit over LCM saying he wished all the people that left TWI would just die. Or some others not mentioned that deserve honorable mention.
i stand dissected and i guess corrected--- by WORDWOLF
you seem to have an attitude that it is SOOOO important to use every word exactly correctly and quote the right person the right way.....we know where you got your training, so when you complain about the way, look in a mirror, your alot like them, my statements were vague and i didn't go and look up exactly which person said what first......ie my point was the way taught some good stuff and alot of it was from outside the way and the way sold books by bullinger and bishop pallai and others so they weren't hiding the fact that these others had brought their areas of expertise to the table.
AND i know i am talking about the way i saw from 1979 to 1985, i cannot of course speak to after that. but i was a part of it for the last years of VPW and left before he passed. i know what i heard and saw, i know what was practiced by my friends, and it was GOOD. when i moved to iowa and had an intrim corps girl in charge of about 4 fairly mature good christians, and she taught reproof ALL THE TIME
then we moved to nashville where i heard some guy teach taht all the ethiopians were doing is wasting Oxygen unless they get saved, [[compassion at it's finest]]
soon thereafter we left, cause heartless people that obviously weren't listening to GOD and did not have HIS heart were becoming more prevelant and were being put in charge of twigs. i did not see region and state leaders be this OFF but they were putting or leaving these people in charge of twigs. i did try to go up the way tree to deal with this heartless Godless stuff and was ignored, so i concluded they weren;t much different than the twig leaders i was seeing--- heartless/Godless
oldies and i are saying that vpw had some things wrong, the biggest i see looking back is trying to do 5 things to get prayers answered--wants and needs, able and willing......the teaching was a stretch from what scripture says and means at best, but what was HORRIBLE is it really was saying we can MAKE GOD do something or keep GOD from doing something, and WE CAN't.
forget your formula, your bible and mine says ASK.
not plan and scheme, just ask. asking implies the one being asked deterimines if they are going to do what is asked of them or not. that is what asking means. and that is the word the bible uses. the deep truth of this is it shows what you think about GOD's love towards you, to ask and leave what you asked in HIS hands.
i speak in tongues, cause of the way
i heard GOd's voice and new what it was, cause of the way
i have seen people miraculously healed, most of them when i was involved with the way, some since but not as often or as miraculous
without signs miracles and wonders --- and GOD's presence voice and speaking in tongues, the way must have been very confusing and bizzarr, i feel sorry for you thatdid not get out of it what i did,
we did walk with GOD despite what might have been going on behind closed doors.
we did see healings, we did learn to study the bible and in the long run, learning how they came up with their conclusions, taught us how to study the bible ourselves and showed us we were led into truth by men instead of being led into all truth by the spirit, the way the bible says we are supposed to.
Well, if the totality of the 'good' you and Oldies and all the other VPW apologists went thru is the best your All Powerful God can do? As compared with all the far worse *crap* that far more people went thru via VPW and TWI? ..... :unsure:
((scoffs)) Yeah! Right! As George Carlin would say "If this is the best that God can do, I am not impressed. This isn't the kind of thing you'd find on the resume of a Supreme Being. This is the s**t you'd get from an office temp with a bad attitude!"
i stand dissected and i guess corrected--- by WORDWOLF
you seem to have an attitude that it is SOOOO important to use every word exactly correctly and quote the right person the right way.....we know where you got your training, so when you complain about the way, look in a mirror, your alot like them, my statements were vague and i didn't go and look up exactly which person said what first......
Wow, impressive.
At the least, Wordwolf uses his powers for good instead of evil.
getting closer to GOD and more like Him that is the goal,
we did come in contact with some sicko's and i do not excuse their abuse of others when they should have been caring for them.
i just was stating that the way was a place i got to know GOD better and became more like Him and i hope others would realize that too and be thankful to GOD for the good, while despising the BAD.
i did not know any of the sick stuff was going on, i wish i had known that someone was f...ing with someone i cared about, i would probably be in jail if they had caught me for what i would have done. [there is 2 uses for baseball bats and baseball is only one of them]
sick bastards they were and in some cases still are--GOD will sort them out.
the way was a place some of us got our first glimps of God and His love for us-
a man that says one thing and does another is accountable for both what he said and what he did---don't be fooled GOD is real and alive and able to take care of Himself and His creation and any and all of us.
I think that Wierwille's selection of Martindale to replace him as president of twi is very revealing...
In a career filled with wrong choices, VPW's final decision to replace himself with king okie led to the rapid downfall of twi. In hindsight, VP SHOULD have known better. Martindale simply wasn't qualified for the job. He was arrogant, self centered, egotistical and not that bright...so why Martindale?
My theory is that Veepee decided to find the most "charismatic" person he could...why? Because in his heart he knew that twi was a personality cult. He could have chosen Walter (who left LCM far behind in terms of biblical knowledge and an ability to make more level headed decisions)...or a host of other candidates that had more organizational skills, more experience in Christian ministry and more Christian qualities in their lives...
My belief is that Veepee knew that it was his own personality that held twi together throughout the years and he needed to find someone who could fill his shoes.
It's a common occurence for a cult to die when the cult leader dies...Wierwille was hopeful that Martindale's charismatic personality would be sufficient to keep it going. Had Wierwille truly believed in the power of God and the integrity of what he taught, his criteria for selecting a new president would have been different.
...So, in a very real sense, his selection of Martindale not only revealed his own lack of Christian faith but also sealed the fate of his cult...relegating it to continue on as a personality cult...and we should thank him for that. His selection of the loud mouth from okie land, ultimately led us to the realization of exactly what we were involved with...
Amazed again ......those who live by the past die by the past...........this stuff is so old and useless, since when did God say lets talk about the past until it makes people vomit and clouds their perception of the present and points their direction of the future? I could understand if the old fart were alive or If Craig was still an influence but for real folks ...its like dragging that old man around the same old mountain and crying about how much it hurts! I hope for the best for you all that keep this endless worthless babel going...... as for me I can't see the profit and I'll say Good bye and good luck because on this track your gonna need it. :wave: :
Amazed again ......those who live by the past die by the past...........this stuff is so old and useless, since when did God say lets talk about the past until it makes people vomit and clouds their perception of the present and points their direction of the future? I could understand if the old fart were alive or If Craig was still an influence but for real folks ...its like dragging that old man around the same old mountain and crying about how much it hurts! I hope for the best for you all that keep this endless worthless babel going...... as for me I can't see the profit and I'll say Good bye and good luck because on this track your gonna need it. :wave: :
(haven't read whole thread yet)
I don't think it's useless. If it weren't discussed here, people will believe what twi tells them.
given vic's "preclivities" for women, I think donna could have been the first choice. according to vp, couldn't let a woman do a "man"'s job. Chose the next logical alternative..
I think she was fairly smart, until she was around loy long enough. Something about his demeanor that seems to depress the intelligence of those around him..
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oldiesman
I agree jr4jc.
Even tho McDonald's didn't invent the hamburger, I enjoy eating those mouth watering quarter pounders.
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WordWolf
I've never, not once, come across an ad where Mc Donalds claimed the ONLY place to get a hamburger,
nor that they claimed to have invented them, or are the only place to make them since they were
invented centuries ago in Hamburg.
TWI STILL teaches they are the ONLY ones with the truth, and vpw quite boldly declared that
the material he took from other Christians-Leonard, Bullinger, Stiles, Kenyon-
and assembled into a class without adding to it-
was the sole source of information, given by God Himself,
and not taught since the first century Christians.
Forget already?
He claimed God told him that He would teach vpw God's Word like it hadn't been taught
since the First Century, if vpw would teach it to others.
He compiled the material in 1953 and years following,
and began making the claim in the early 1970s.
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oldiesman
Old old inaccurate spin.
How can they teach they are the ONLY ones with the truth, when the teachings were a compilation of others' works that Dr. Wierwille himself admitted, when he said "lots of the stuff I teach is not original"?
I suppose when he says something that doesn't fit with your theories it means nothing to you.
Just ignore the parts that don't fit.
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WordWolf
It was true before, AND it's true NOW.
Take a look at what little you can access from current members on their
twi-only forums.
They STILL teach they are the ONLY ones with the truth,
and if people leave twi, they leave the truth.
I'm unsure how many of them still say what some leaders said back
in the 90s to people leaving, about horrible accidents befalling family
members of people who leave, and asking them which family members
they want to be the next to die.
So, they were the sole carriers of The Truth, still are, and leaving
was (and may still be) punished by injuries and/or death.
We have audiofiles if you've conveniently forgotten this one.
Didn't get caught, he didn't plagiarize it.Old policy in wayworld-
you didn't see it, it didn't happen.
(Some posters STILL say this.)
EVERYBODY could recite the 1942 Promise-
that vpw was told supposedly by God Almighty.
However,
two sentences buried in the middle of a book that SOME of the twi people
owned and fewer READ is hardly the equal to this.
The actual books he plagiarized claim-his own words- that he threw
out all the works of others. This was a total lie, since the entire contents
WERE from others.
We discussed this, and exact quotes were provided.
I suppose when he says something that doesn't fit with your theories it means nothing to you.
Just ignore the parts that don't fit.
Even if it's in the introduction to the Orange Book or the White Book.
Nice try snowing the new arrivals, though.
They missed previous discussions and entire threads like this:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ources&st=0
"vpw on the sources of his books."
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penguin
As long as twi still teaches that they are the only true household of God, they continue the lie that they are the only ones with the truth. I have many friends who will not leave twi even though they are miserable because they think twi is only place with the truth.
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oldiesman
I make the distinction that twi believers (we used to be one) believed that twi was the best, most accurate, most rightly - divided ministry out there. There is no question in my mind that I, and I think most of us, thought that. But that is different than being the ONLY group with the truth. ONLY means the ONLY SOURCE, which obviously, we were not. I rejoiced when I saw other groups teach the truth.
Examples of this are many. Books by Bullinger, E.W. Kenyon, Stiles, Leonard, Cliffe, and others, groups like Leonards, and the Jehovah Witnesses, who taught truths like that twi taught. Add to this ooodles of other Christian books. I used to watch Fred Price all the time while I was in twi, and really enjoy it. Even the church of my youth teaches truth.
Wordwolf if you can't see the distinction, you are either mentally retarded or engaging in spinning again.
I think the latter, because you're an intelligent guy.
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WordWolf
The TWI answer, ALWAYS and still to this day,
is that different groups have SOME of the truth, but fail in OTHERS.
They have a little truth-but IF ONLY they didn't have that error that invalidated their teachings!
No trinitarian has a brain in their skull!
Non-trinitarians are few and are idolators of different types.
So, twi spin is STILL "nobody else has ENOUGH of the truth to effectively have "Truth."
You have eyewitnesses, but some of us don't count eyewitness testimony....
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shazdancer
Oldies,
We're not saying Wierwille thought we were the only ones with any of the truth, we're saying that Wierwille declared TWI to be the MOST accurate.
From Elena W's book, not an exact quote (hey, it's been 20 years, maybe someone has the book and can look it up):
Said Wierwille, "Putting it all together, and making it fit, that was the unique* part."
Trouble was, Wierwille was missing the most important part, the I Cor. 13 part. It was the Mary and Martha story all over again. Fretting over details, looking real godly, but missing the bigger picture.
Very narcissistic to substitute the gnat, so he wouldn't have to face the camel.
-- Shaz
* I know that word is wrong, but the idea was something like that....
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oldiesman
Shaz, that's not what Wordwolf said. But since you mention that, I agree with you. And I agree with the statement. When I was involved with twi, I thought they were the most accurate. BTW, this is not an uncommon phenomena ... I bet you a Quarter Pounder that most folks involved in religious groups think their group is the best, most accurate way there is.
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WordWolf
In case anyone here is as deficient as Oldies in reading comprehension,
I'll recap a few of the last few posts.
(Those with short memories may appreciate this as well.)
=======================
Shazdancer said
QUOTE(shazdancer @ Jul 6 2006, 08:07 PM) *
"Oldies,
We're not saying Wierwille thought we were the only ones with any of the truth, we're saying that Wierwille declared TWI to be the MOST accurate."
Oldies replied
"Shaz, that's not what Wordwolf said."
WordWolf's actual answer-which was a reporting of twi's opinion-not his own-
was
"The TWI answer, ALWAYS and still to this day,
is that different groups have SOME of the truth, but fail in OTHERS.
So, twi spin is STILL "nobody else has ENOUGH of the truth to effectively have "Truth."
Oldies apparently missed where my answer and Shaz's answer aligned.
That my answer was factually correct was borne out by Penguin, who
addressed the current teachings as follows:
"As long as twi still teaches that they are the only true household of God, they continue the lie that they are the only ones with the truth. I have many friends who will not leave twi even though they are miserable because they think twi is only place with the truth."
It can seem baffling that Oldies seems to be dedicated to denying this was EVER taught,
but Physicists are used to observing things that seem to make no sense to them,
and I expect we can adjust our expectations accordingly.
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skipC
I left TWI in the latter part of 2002 and although I never heard TWI say or teach that they were the only way or the only ones who taught the truth, they certainly implied that they were by remarks such as:
Donna Martindale's tape concerning the plane crash
TWI members saying that they were above the earth
Other churches did not teach the truth like we do (TWI) all they want is your money
TWI was God's children and if you left you would no longer be under the protection of God's household. something bad will happen to you if you leave TWI
I have never heard remarks like this from any church that I have ever attended. Red Flag for determining if they are a cult or not!
C'mon guys, I know you can put out those phrases that were used at theTwitsville Compound
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oldiesman
More spin.
twi taught that when and where one rightly divides the word of truth, they have the true word. So a group, any group, according to twi, may rightly divide the word in one area, and wrongly divide the word in another.
That would mean, groups can and do teach and have truth when they rightly divide the word.
Wordwolf stated:
Still is spin. I think that statement is inaccurate and deceptive.I think Shaz (not Wordwolf) said it honestly and accurately, and I agree:
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WordWolf
No-selective memory on Oldies' part.
They said this,
but Oldies' defense is that it was illogical for them to do so.
Oldies keeps assuming that whenever twi contradicted twi,
the part he doesn't want to believe never was said, or never happened.
That's technically true according to the pfal class.And it's also technically true that lcm claimed his reasons for demanding unwavering
loyalty were exclusively for spiritually-sound reasons.
And it's also technically true that an official twi spokesman claimed that twi keeps
their thralls informed on everything.
It's true they SAID these things.
And once they said them, they gave them all the attention a dog gives to a fireplug.
So, once twi finished saying that, they then proceeded to go thru what still remains
TO THIS DAY their policy-
that non-twi Christians-even the ones who left and teach most of the same things-
do not have The Truth because what they teach is not ALL 100% Truth,
which only twi has and even 99.44% Truth is not good enough,
and shame on you for even thinking so.
You may misread and misinterpret that all you want.
However,
the eyewitness report of how things are proceeding now contradicts
how you WISH to interpret things.
Penguin said
"As long as twi still teaches that they are the only true household of God, they continue the lie that they are the only ones with the truth. I have many friends who will not leave twi even though they are miserable because they think twi is only place with the truth."
Of course,
we're supposed to discard Penguin's eyewitness account for the opinion
of Oldiesman who hasn't attended a meeting in a decade
because Oldiesman wants to believe he's correct.
We're also supposed to discard the fact that the two statements-
Shaz and WordWolf's statements-
don't contradict each other unless one is busy trying to whitewash twi
and excuse them from puffing up themselves and slamming other
Christians.
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Eagle
I remember being a big butt-kisser of LCM in the old days when he was just getting over the POP and entering the minefields of paranoia. He kind of liked me. I had no idea of the sexual affairs and adultery then. If someone had told me I would not have believed them. In fact, when first hearing about them I did not believe them and I had left TWI more than three years already.
It was only after seeing repeated charges and accusations from all over and lawsuits piling up that it sunk in.
I wish someone else had been picked by VPW like John Schoenheit, who had been fired for opposing adultery. Ot John Shroyer, who quit over LCM saying he wished all the people that left TWI would just die. Or some others not mentioned that deserve honorable mention.
Eagle
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jr4jc
i stand dissected and i guess corrected--- by WORDWOLF
you seem to have an attitude that it is SOOOO important to use every word exactly correctly and quote the right person the right way.....we know where you got your training, so when you complain about the way, look in a mirror, your alot like them, my statements were vague and i didn't go and look up exactly which person said what first......ie my point was the way taught some good stuff and alot of it was from outside the way and the way sold books by bullinger and bishop pallai and others so they weren't hiding the fact that these others had brought their areas of expertise to the table.
AND i know i am talking about the way i saw from 1979 to 1985, i cannot of course speak to after that. but i was a part of it for the last years of VPW and left before he passed. i know what i heard and saw, i know what was practiced by my friends, and it was GOOD. when i moved to iowa and had an intrim corps girl in charge of about 4 fairly mature good christians, and she taught reproof ALL THE TIME
then we moved to nashville where i heard some guy teach taht all the ethiopians were doing is wasting Oxygen unless they get saved, [[compassion at it's finest]]
soon thereafter we left, cause heartless people that obviously weren't listening to GOD and did not have HIS heart were becoming more prevelant and were being put in charge of twigs. i did not see region and state leaders be this OFF but they were putting or leaving these people in charge of twigs. i did try to go up the way tree to deal with this heartless Godless stuff and was ignored, so i concluded they weren;t much different than the twig leaders i was seeing--- heartless/Godless
oldies and i are saying that vpw had some things wrong, the biggest i see looking back is trying to do 5 things to get prayers answered--wants and needs, able and willing......the teaching was a stretch from what scripture says and means at best, but what was HORRIBLE is it really was saying we can MAKE GOD do something or keep GOD from doing something, and WE CAN't.
forget your formula, your bible and mine says ASK.
not plan and scheme, just ask. asking implies the one being asked deterimines if they are going to do what is asked of them or not. that is what asking means. and that is the word the bible uses. the deep truth of this is it shows what you think about GOD's love towards you, to ask and leave what you asked in HIS hands.
i speak in tongues, cause of the way
i heard GOd's voice and new what it was, cause of the way
i have seen people miraculously healed, most of them when i was involved with the way, some since but not as often or as miraculous
without signs miracles and wonders --- and GOD's presence voice and speaking in tongues, the way must have been very confusing and bizzarr, i feel sorry for you thatdid not get out of it what i did,
we did walk with GOD despite what might have been going on behind closed doors.
we did see healings, we did learn to study the bible and in the long run, learning how they came up with their conclusions, taught us how to study the bible ourselves and showed us we were led into truth by men instead of being led into all truth by the spirit, the way the bible says we are supposed to.
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GarthP2000
Well, if the totality of the 'good' you and Oldies and all the other VPW apologists went thru is the best your All Powerful God can do? As compared with all the far worse *crap* that far more people went thru via VPW and TWI? ..... :unsure:
((scoffs)) Yeah! Right! As George Carlin would say "If this is the best that God can do, I am not impressed. This isn't the kind of thing you'd find on the resume of a Supreme Being. This is the s**t you'd get from an office temp with a bad attitude!"
I think that totally fits here. <_<
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coolchef
garth to do I
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Belle
ROFLMAO! Great post, Garth.
I still maintain that a bad day in "the real world" is better than any good day in TWIt-ville ever was. What does that say about the godliness of TWI?
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Sushi
Wow, impressive.
At the least, Wordwolf uses his powers for good instead of evil.
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jr4jc
getting closer to GOD and more like Him that is the goal,
we did come in contact with some sicko's and i do not excuse their abuse of others when they should have been caring for them.
i just was stating that the way was a place i got to know GOD better and became more like Him and i hope others would realize that too and be thankful to GOD for the good, while despising the BAD.
i did not know any of the sick stuff was going on, i wish i had known that someone was f...ing with someone i cared about, i would probably be in jail if they had caught me for what i would have done. [there is 2 uses for baseball bats and baseball is only one of them]
sick bastards they were and in some cases still are--GOD will sort them out.
the way was a place some of us got our first glimps of God and His love for us-
a man that says one thing and does another is accountable for both what he said and what he did---don't be fooled GOD is real and alive and able to take care of Himself and His creation and any and all of us.
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annam
Amazed again ......those who live by the past die by the past...........this stuff is so old and useless, since when did God say lets talk about the past until it makes people vomit and clouds their perception of the present and points their direction of the future? I could understand if the old fart were alive or If Craig was still an influence but for real folks ...its like dragging that old man around the same old mountain and crying about how much it hurts! I hope for the best for you all that keep this endless worthless babel going...... as for me I can't see the profit and I'll say Good bye and good luck because on this track your gonna need it.
:wave: :
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Bolshevik
(haven't read whole thread yet)
I don't think it's useless. If it weren't discussed here, people will believe what twi tells them.
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waterbuffalo
Annam, don't let the door hit you yada yada yada....
apprently you don't get why people come here....
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Ham
given vic's "preclivities" for women, I think donna could have been the first choice. according to vp, couldn't let a woman do a "man"'s job. Chose the next logical alternative..
I think she was fairly smart, until she was around loy long enough. Something about his demeanor that seems to depress the intelligence of those around him..
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