I think the phrase "return to your old man ways" as TWI taught it is a misnomer. Your old man is with you as long as you are alive, right? The old man is what you do with your mind, not your habits. I think that as the scripture says, evil associations corrupt good morals, but you don't have to be Christian to have that happen.
In my experience, yes, I stopped doing some things for the sake of reckoning the old man dead (dope, rock and roll. etc.) but after abstaining from those things for long enough I figure I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself what I can do and not do. I seriously have NOT done any dope since 1978, but I'm not afraid to, I just don't desire to. There's a whole belief system with that stuff. There is some rock and roll I freely listen to now that I abstained from for years in TWI. Haven't been struck with lightning yet.
When I got into TWI I was a college girl with major interests in guys, clothes and live bands. I didn't have any huge problems in my life caused by addiction or anything. I got good grades and almost always held down a job or two.
I was at loose ends though, getting over a breakup, plus the job I had lined up for after graduation was not appealing. I was somewhat depressed at the end of college, all my friends moving different places. I would be moving to a tiny town in eastern Montana to teach kindergarten and would have nothing fun to do...and I later married one of the wows that got me into the class.
I was in twenty years. By the time we left I was fortyish with three kids. I lived more than a thousand miles from my hometown where I went to college. Clothes and guys were no longer major interests. I was more concerned about school quality and healthcare, ya know?
Well, I do still love clothes. And books. And mountains. And rock and roll, the oldies...And we went into debt right away for cars and a house.
Which one?? For number 3 click HERE! Now... who IS that? I also (as you may have well suspected) have the good quality MP version if you would like. Bach was something else.
Thanks for the Brandenburg #3 in G Major, sudo. One of my all-time favorite pieces of music. Danced to it in high school. Used the Wendy ("Walter," thanks for the reminder, david!) Carlos version of the second movement (which is only a couple of transitional chords in the original) in junior high for an oral book report in which I danced.
Always nice to hear some of that good "seed boy" music! Maybe Wierwille was just jealous.
As to returning to "old man" ways, I didn't. I had 2 young girls to support, and besides, I was never much of a rebel to begin with. And I had one foot solidly in the world the whole time I was in TWI. The one thing I didn't become was a greasespot!
After leaving TWI, which was made out to be the apex of spirituality, as long as you were "in the Household", did you return to your "Old Man" ways?
Did you go back into what you were into before TWI and all of the "deliverance" you received?
Was it as bad as LCM said it would be?
OR BETTER?
Twi used this section of scripture (new man/old man) deceitfully, IMHO...It has nothing to do with denominational affiliation.
Before my involvement with twi, I did not follow a cult leader...after I left twi, I no longer followed a cult leader...so in that sense, yes...I returned to my "old man" ways.
I ind ditto Belle, but in a moving forward - now I now a little more kinda way.
I was not judgemental before way...and I have gotten that back, with some added wisdom and I think I am quicker to notice when others are being judgemental.
personally, i was always amazed how quickly all that stuff i'd been ceaselessly shoving into my head for years and years just melted away. it wasn't long at all before i came to myself! (which really confirmed to me how wrong it all was. i always figured that if it really was what i was designed to think and do and be, it would stick to me naturally. but it didn't, 'cause it wasn't.)
If you mean 'before twi' when saying 'old man ways', then no, I did not return to those ways...I was 16yo fer crying out loud...WHY would I EVER go back to that stuff?
If you mean 'rejecting twi doctrines and commandments and adopting non-twi thinking' when saying 'old man ways', then absofrickinlutely!
Before twi indoctrination I never even conceived of some of the ideas of 'spirituality' promoted by twi representatives...
You know, things like 3somes, getting high to get to gawd, screwing every possible piffle student, condemning my grandma to hell for voluntarily dieing of cancer instead of believing gawd, pointing fingers at those in need and telling them how terrible they were for not believing gawd, whacking my daughter from age 6 months on for every peep she made that disturbed leadershi+...
These things are what twi representatives taught to me so that I could be 'spiritual enough'.
Yes, a thousand times over YES I returned to thinking these things are sins.
quote: You know, things like 3somes, getting high to get to gawd, screwing every possible piffle student, condemning my grandma to hell for voluntarily dieing of cancer instead of believing gawd, pointing fingers at those in need and telling them how terrible they were for not believing gawd, whacking my daughter from age 6 months on for every peep she made that disturbed leadershi+...
These things are what twi representatives taught to me so that I could be 'spiritual enough'.
Amazing. I believe you, but when I read stuff like this it makes me wonder if "body snatchers" from outer space came down and took over TWI leadership at some point in time. I was never in a ministry like the one you describe, I swear.
They must have only let you see their *nice* face John...because from all accounts it can be taced all the way back to the very inception of twi. But then again you probably weren`t 17 endowed with boobs and a pretty face either :( Unfortunatly, that seemed to be a major part of the criteria necessary in order to be deemed *mature enough spiritually* to handle the deeper truths.
quote: You know, things like 3somes, getting high to get to gawd, screwing every possible piffle student, condemning my grandma to hell for voluntarily dieing of cancer instead of believing gawd, pointing fingers at those in need and telling them how terrible they were for not believing gawd, whacking my daughter from age 6 months on for every peep she made that disturbed leadershi+...
These things are what twi representatives taught to me so that I could be 'spiritual enough'.
Amazing. I believe you, but when I read stuff like this it makes me wonder if "body snatchers" from outer space came down and took over TWI leadership at some point in time. I was never in a ministry like the one you describe, I swear.
I remember that ministry quite well and I was in from 1983 to 2002. I remember going to my first ROA and the 2nd and 3rd only to see people smoking pot at a play put on by kids. They were sitting in the back, but nobody said anything to them. They sat on a blanket and smoked their dope. I was new and thought VPW would have said something since he was at some of those functions where I saw the dope smoking.
I remember people who got other people in the class based on the fact that they were screwing them. One girl in particular was always given kudos to how many she got in a class. I later lived with her and her mother and step father and found out she bangs them all. Now THAT girl was a REAL witness for the Lord Jesus Christ.
Do I care to mention the sexual crap that went on in my WOW family? A place that was supposed to give me 10 years growth in 1 year?
I remember people being condemned for not believing when they had illness much less cancer.
I saw a man yell at the top of his lungs at a 2 year old because she made noise. His yelling was something like "Don't you ever disturb the Word of God being taught!" The teacher, an ordained man, said nothing. I was appalled. I'm sure that meant a lot to the two year old.
So yes, these things happened in twi. I am sorry to say you must have had blinders on. But then again, I did too. Why the H did I stay in a ministry when I saw so much BS????
Now back to the question: Did I go back to my old man ways: Well I never stopped them when I got in twi. I wasn't "that bad" to begin with. My "sin" was drinking too much. I continued to do it until I got married the first time. I remember going with people after twig to get sh8t-fced drunk. It was part of the fellowship. I only do that once a year at an annual Mexican vacation.
I did get in debt by buying a decent car and I married in to a home loan. But I'm enjoying those very much. I don't think God has been peesed off at me for it.
I just wonder where Craig gets off talking about how people return to their own vomit when they leave twi when he was farking 100s of women and more than one at a time and still thought he was in God's good graces. Now let me tell you ladies and gentleman, THAT is a cult leader. :P
Back to actually WANTING people to come over to the house to visit.
Back to enjoying conversations with people regardless of their beliefs.
Back to having no ulterior motive for meeting people.
Back to having hobbies (CH Bever Lea Foxhollow Vixen JE SE being one of them).
Back to being healthy.
Back to having good night sleep.
Back to open, loving communication with my family.
Back to building financial security for my future.
Back to having joy and zest for life.
Oh yeah, I'm most certainly back to my old man ways.
AMEN! SISTA!
Especially the part about having hobbies and interests again - good grief! Talk about loosing yourself to something. I felt like I went thru that twice - first when I divorced my husband and a second time when I left TWI.
I'd like to add that I went back to having a backbone again, too!
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johniam
I think the phrase "return to your old man ways" as TWI taught it is a misnomer. Your old man is with you as long as you are alive, right? The old man is what you do with your mind, not your habits. I think that as the scripture says, evil associations corrupt good morals, but you don't have to be Christian to have that happen.
In my experience, yes, I stopped doing some things for the sake of reckoning the old man dead (dope, rock and roll. etc.) but after abstaining from those things for long enough I figure I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself what I can do and not do. I seriously have NOT done any dope since 1978, but I'm not afraid to, I just don't desire to. There's a whole belief system with that stuff. There is some rock and roll I freely listen to now that I abstained from for years in TWI. Haven't been struck with lightning yet.
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Bramble
When I got into TWI I was a college girl with major interests in guys, clothes and live bands. I didn't have any huge problems in my life caused by addiction or anything. I got good grades and almost always held down a job or two.
I was at loose ends though, getting over a breakup, plus the job I had lined up for after graduation was not appealing. I was somewhat depressed at the end of college, all my friends moving different places. I would be moving to a tiny town in eastern Montana to teach kindergarten and would have nothing fun to do...and I later married one of the wows that got me into the class.
I was in twenty years. By the time we left I was fortyish with three kids. I lived more than a thousand miles from my hometown where I went to college. Clothes and guys were no longer major interests. I was more concerned about school quality and healthcare, ya know?
Well, I do still love clothes. And books. And mountains. And rock and roll, the oldies...And we went into debt right away for cars and a house.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
back to my old man ways?
never really left them except for the dope
i was told once that one of my favorite oiece of music was from the seed
ready for this
Bach's brandenburg Concerto"s
i listened to it then and still do now but it is better now because it is on cd rather than tape
imo the old man ways was a lot of crap policy in most ways
oh and did i mention this?
i don't think i was born to be perfect
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Oakspear
...well, I am a lot closer to being an old man than I was a few years ago...as is attested by my Einstein-like head of grey-going-on-white hair!
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dmiller
Was that the *Switched on Bach* record??
I loved that thing -- even if *Wendy* was originally a guy! :P
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Sudo
Cool,
Which one?? For number 3 click HERE! Now... who IS that? I also (as you may have well suspected) have the good quality MP version if you would like. Bach was something else.
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shazdancer
Thanks for the Brandenburg #3 in G Major, sudo. One of my all-time favorite pieces of music. Danced to it in high school. Used the Wendy ("Walter," thanks for the reminder, david!) Carlos version of the second movement (which is only a couple of transitional chords in the original) in junior high for an oral book report in which I danced.
Always nice to hear some of that good "seed boy" music! Maybe Wierwille was just jealous.
As to returning to "old man" ways, I didn't. I had 2 young girls to support, and besides, I was never much of a rebel to begin with. And I had one foot solidly in the world the whole time I was in TWI. The one thing I didn't become was a greasespot!
Regards,
Shaz
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GrouchoMarxJr
Twi used this section of scripture (new man/old man) deceitfully, IMHO...It has nothing to do with denominational affiliation.
Before my involvement with twi, I did not follow a cult leader...after I left twi, I no longer followed a cult leader...so in that sense, yes...I returned to my "old man" ways.
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TheInvisibleDan
I have yet to venture into the business of marketing canned dog vomit.
I still enjoy the Brandenburg Concertos as well.
Danny
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George Aar
Gawd, I wish I could.
Don't have the energy for that anymore, I'm afraid...
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Belle
A resounding YES!!
I went back to smiling at people.
Back to helping people.
Back to actually WANTING people to come over to the house to visit.
Back to enjoying conversations with people regardless of their beliefs.
Back to having no ulterior motive for meeting people.
Back to having hobbies (CH Bever Lea Foxhollow Vixen JE SE being one of them).
Back to being healthy.
Back to having good night sleep.
Back to open, loving communication with my family.
Back to building financial security for my future.
Back to having joy and zest for life.
Oh yeah, I'm most certainly back to my old man ways.
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washingtonweather
I ind ditto Belle, but in a moving forward - now I now a little more kinda way.
I was not judgemental before way...and I have gotten that back, with some added wisdom and I think I am quicker to notice when others are being judgemental.
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sprawled out
personally, i was always amazed how quickly all that stuff i'd been ceaselessly shoving into my head for years and years just melted away. it wasn't long at all before i came to myself! (which really confirmed to me how wrong it all was. i always figured that if it really was what i was designed to think and do and be, it would stick to me naturally. but it didn't, 'cause it wasn't.)
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CoolWaters
If you mean 'before twi' when saying 'old man ways', then no, I did not return to those ways...I was 16yo fer crying out loud...WHY would I EVER go back to that stuff?
If you mean 'rejecting twi doctrines and commandments and adopting non-twi thinking' when saying 'old man ways', then absofrickinlutely!
Before twi indoctrination I never even conceived of some of the ideas of 'spirituality' promoted by twi representatives...
You know, things like 3somes, getting high to get to gawd, screwing every possible piffle student, condemning my grandma to hell for voluntarily dieing of cancer instead of believing gawd, pointing fingers at those in need and telling them how terrible they were for not believing gawd, whacking my daughter from age 6 months on for every peep she made that disturbed leadershi+...
These things are what twi representatives taught to me so that I could be 'spiritual enough'.
Yes, a thousand times over YES I returned to thinking these things are sins.
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johniam
quote: You know, things like 3somes, getting high to get to gawd, screwing every possible piffle student, condemning my grandma to hell for voluntarily dieing of cancer instead of believing gawd, pointing fingers at those in need and telling them how terrible they were for not believing gawd, whacking my daughter from age 6 months on for every peep she made that disturbed leadershi+...
These things are what twi representatives taught to me so that I could be 'spiritual enough'.
Amazing. I believe you, but when I read stuff like this it makes me wonder if "body snatchers" from outer space came down and took over TWI leadership at some point in time. I was never in a ministry like the one you describe, I swear.
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rascal
They must have only let you see their *nice* face John...because from all accounts it can be taced all the way back to the very inception of twi. But then again you probably weren`t 17 endowed with boobs and a pretty face either :( Unfortunatly, that seemed to be a major part of the criteria necessary in order to be deemed *mature enough spiritually* to handle the deeper truths.
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Nottawayfer
I remember that ministry quite well and I was in from 1983 to 2002. I remember going to my first ROA and the 2nd and 3rd only to see people smoking pot at a play put on by kids. They were sitting in the back, but nobody said anything to them. They sat on a blanket and smoked their dope. I was new and thought VPW would have said something since he was at some of those functions where I saw the dope smoking.
I remember people who got other people in the class based on the fact that they were screwing them. One girl in particular was always given kudos to how many she got in a class. I later lived with her and her mother and step father and found out she bangs them all. Now THAT girl was a REAL witness for the Lord Jesus Christ.
Do I care to mention the sexual crap that went on in my WOW family? A place that was supposed to give me 10 years growth in 1 year?
I remember people being condemned for not believing when they had illness much less cancer.
I saw a man yell at the top of his lungs at a 2 year old because she made noise. His yelling was something like "Don't you ever disturb the Word of God being taught!" The teacher, an ordained man, said nothing. I was appalled. I'm sure that meant a lot to the two year old.
So yes, these things happened in twi. I am sorry to say you must have had blinders on. But then again, I did too. Why the H did I stay in a ministry when I saw so much BS????
Now back to the question: Did I go back to my old man ways: Well I never stopped them when I got in twi. I wasn't "that bad" to begin with. My "sin" was drinking too much. I continued to do it until I got married the first time. I remember going with people after twig to get sh8t-fced drunk. It was part of the fellowship. I only do that once a year at an annual Mexican vacation.
I did get in debt by buying a decent car and I married in to a home loan. But I'm enjoying those very much. I don't think God has been peesed off at me for it.
I just wonder where Craig gets off talking about how people return to their own vomit when they leave twi when he was farking 100s of women and more than one at a time and still thought he was in God's good graces. Now let me tell you ladies and gentleman, THAT is a cult leader. :P
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excathedra
still trying to find my old man
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Jim
I vote:
Brandenburg Concertos,
Hotel California
The Weight
If that's my old man, he's back.
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ChasUFarley
AMEN! SISTA!
Especially the part about having hobbies and interests again - good grief! Talk about loosing yourself to something. I felt like I went thru that twice - first when I divorced my husband and a second time when I left TWI.
I'd like to add that I went back to having a backbone again, too!
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