Heating bill? This is in Washington DC...Can you imagine the AC bill...particularly considering that the church you're seeing is the eigth largest Catholic church in the world ((shudder))
Bliss:
Sorry, didn't mean to offend. But a lot of folks (including Catholics) have never seen an ordination before...
Robin:
The stole (sash) is the symbol of the clerical office. The candidates had already been ordained transitional deacons a year ago...that's why they are vested in the way they are in the first several photos.
The order of the diaconate (deacons) wear it from left shoulder to right side. The order of the presbyteriate (priests) wear it suspended from their neck, crossed across their chest in the front. The order of the episcopate (bishops) wear it suspended from their neck straight. The priests and bishops secure it in its appropriate position by a cincture (rope) tied around their waist. The deacon's stole goes over the cincture. The cincture symbolizes chastity (not celibacy, but chastity).
The stole always has a small cross in the center of it. As the cleric dons the stole, he kisses the cross and says the following prayer:
Restore unto me, O Lord, the stole of immortality, which was lost through the guilt of our first parents: and, although I am unworthy to approach Your sacred Mysteries, nevertheless grant unto me eternal joy.
You'll note about halfway down, you see the bishop (Cardinal McCarrick) raising his hands in prayer. He is, at this point, praying the prayer of ordination. At that point, the candidates become priests. The two photos thereafter are when the new priests are assisted in donning the vestments proper for the priesthood.
It makes sense that the stole resembles the Jewish stole, considering the origins of Christianity...
I was raised Catholic but never knew that there was an office of a deacon within the church. What is their role????
J.
There are two types of deacons. Transitional deacons (which are seminarians in their last year before being ordained priests) and Permanent deacons. Liturgically, their roles are the same. Pastorally, their roles are different:
Liturgically,
Deacons are ordained clergy. They are ordinary ministers of baptism. They can preside over marriages (outside of a Mass) or funerals (outside of a Mass). They are ordinary ministers of communion, but, obviously, not of the Eucharist. They also assist in Confirmation, Ordination, and assist at Mass. There is nothing theologically against them administering the annointing of the sick in of itself, but, as the recipient of the annointing often wish to give their confession, the sacrament of annointing is reserved to the presbyteriate. They can give blessings (with the exception of blessings reserved to the presbyteriate and episcopate). The guidelines in general are that they can perform liturgical functions that do not require acting in persona Christi.
Pastorally,
Permanent deacons play an important role pastorally. They will often be chaplains for schools, hospitals, police and fire agencies, etc. They distribute communion to the homebound. In areas where there is a profound shortage of priests, they may be a pastoral administrator of a parish where no priest is available.
Deacon, of course, comes from the word diakonos. That is the bottom line of their ministry: service.
After the second Vatican Council back in the 60s, the role of permanent deacon was revived. It was seen as an ordained role for mature, married men who felt a call to ministry. So, obviously, ordained men can be ordained to the permanent diaconate, after a period of formation (in my diocese, the formation takes four years). As with other orders, once a person is ordained, he is not allowed to get married. Unlike the other two orders (the presbyteriate and the episcopate), married men are allowed to be ordained in the order of the diaconate.
In my parish we have three priests, four permanent deacons, two seminarians that came out of our parish (they will, of course, be assigned elsewhere once they've been ordained into the presbyteriate), and one man in formation to be ordained into the diaconate (he is scheduled to be ordained in 2008). There are two men who are currently discerning if they wish to go into formation for the diaconate starting in 2007.
Thanks, Mark for sharing the great pictures and information...I was raised Roman Catholic but haven't had any interest in learning about this stuff until I began reading your posts - always very sharp and informative. Thanks again.
During my journey into the Shamanic Path I learned the value of ritual and symbolism. These pictures move me in a way I cannot explain fully in words.
Funny thing, too...
Hubs and I were talking just this morning about looking into Catholicism. I've been wanting to do this for a few years now...hubs has just recently taken an interest.
So what does it take to become a Catholic? What would that mean to our marriage (on 06-06-06 we will be celebrating 26 years)? Our children? My baptism by another church?
TYVM for sharing these pics!
Oh...and can you tell me if there is any particular reason many catholic churches are long and narrow?
It would be a matter of common courtesy, I'd think.
When you meet another gentleman, you are introduced as "Mr. Miller" and "Mr. O'Malley" -- when you get to know each other better, you may change to Dave and Mark, but the polite norm is "Mr., Mrs., Miss, Ms., Dr., etc."
I regard treating clergy and religious in the same fashion. "Father Miller, Sister Regina, Brother Francis" -- just an extension of that polite form of address.
Now there are plenty of clergy that I've gotten to know where I have no problem addressing them as "Sam, Joe, Jack" -- when shooting pool with them or drinking a beer in the back yard.
But in public or with strangers, I am polite in my address.
(I only know a couple of religious sisters who are young enough to where I'd ever even think of addressing them by their first name only...but that's a matter of respect for age, not title)
I agree with you on the caste system. I chuckle with my priest friends about it...and in honesty, they don't like it much. Because they feel as if they are always in a fishbowl. Seriously. I have one priest friend who drives a VW Jetta. He believes that is the limit of the car that he can drive considering his position (people would talk, dontcha know). He is getting ready to go into the Chaplain Corps soon, so he'll have money. Chaplains get paid as officers. He would love to go out and get a BMW Z car, but doesn't dare do so, as it gives people an excuse to talk about him behind his back.
(btw, contrary to popular belief, diocesan priests are not required to take a vow of poverty, only religious ones are (i.e., Franciscans, Dominicans, etc.). They are paid a stipend -- somewhere between $8k and $12k a year, as well as speaking fees if they run a mission, book royalties if they write, gifts as the result of weddings, funerals, baptisms, etc.)
(another btw, it is considered "normal" to bestow a gift on a priest in that fashion, but it is NOT required)
During my journey into the Shamanic Path I learned the value of ritual and symbolism. These pictures move me in a way I cannot explain fully in words.
Funny thing, too...
Hubs and I were talking just this morning about looking into Catholicism. I've been wanting to do this for a few years now...hubs has just recently taken an interest.
So what does it take to become a Catholic? What would that mean to our marriage (on 06-06-06 we will be celebrating 26 years)? Our children? My baptism by another church?
TYVM for sharing these pics!
Oh...and can you tell me if there is any particular reason many catholic churches are long and narrow?
My suggestion: learn a lot. Attend Mass at a number of different churches in your area -- each is different -- and learn the symbolism. Get a Catechism of the Catholic Church (available at all bookstores) and read it.
The spirituality is significantly different than protestant sects, particularly ones like TWI.
The mechanics are that they have instruction for those who are interested. The instruction takes somewhere around 6 months or so of one night a week. No, they don't charge for it. The stuff is pretty elementary that they teach, particularly for somebody who was heavily involved in TWI.
If you have any questions, PM me with your e-mail and we can talk off-line or ask specific questions and we can talk on-line (albeit guarnateed with a lot of background noise -- "DON'T DO IT")
Why are most churches long?
Most churches are shaped like a cross. Typically, the architecture is vertical, to try to get the occupant to raise his mind toward heaven. Usually what you see is the part of the church that is shaped like the tree of the cross...they will normally have side chapels or the sacristy (where the clergy put their vestments on) at the cross-member part. The altar is typically where the tree and arm meet.
They also have some "church in the round" configurations, as well. And some that are just boxes. But cruciform is the "standard," if you will.
I regard treating clergy and religious in the same fashion. "Father Miller, Sister Regina, Brother Francis" -- just an extension of that polite form of address.
Now there are plenty of clergy that I've gotten to know where I have no problem addressing them as "Sam, Joe, Jack" -- when shooting pool with them or drinking a beer in the back yard.
But in public or with strangers, I am polite in my address.
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GarthP2000
Man, I sure would hate to get the heating bill for that place.
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bliss
Mark
Sorry, I love and respect you and your opinion, but that down right scares me....
((((((shudder)))))))
(I have an extreme RC background)
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oenophile
I notice the sash that the ordination candidates are wearing in the first picture bears resemblance to Jewish prayer shawl.
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markomalley
Garth:
Heating bill? This is in Washington DC...Can you imagine the AC bill...particularly considering that the church you're seeing is the eigth largest Catholic church in the world ((shudder))
Bliss:
Sorry, didn't mean to offend. But a lot of folks (including Catholics) have never seen an ordination before...
Robin:
The stole (sash) is the symbol of the clerical office. The candidates had already been ordained transitional deacons a year ago...that's why they are vested in the way they are in the first several photos.
The order of the diaconate (deacons) wear it from left shoulder to right side. The order of the presbyteriate (priests) wear it suspended from their neck, crossed across their chest in the front. The order of the episcopate (bishops) wear it suspended from their neck straight. The priests and bishops secure it in its appropriate position by a cincture (rope) tied around their waist. The deacon's stole goes over the cincture. The cincture symbolizes chastity (not celibacy, but chastity).
The stole always has a small cross in the center of it. As the cleric dons the stole, he kisses the cross and says the following prayer:
Restore unto me, O Lord, the stole of immortality, which was lost through the guilt of our first parents: and, although I am unworthy to approach Your sacred Mysteries, nevertheless grant unto me eternal joy.
You'll note about halfway down, you see the bishop (Cardinal McCarrick) raising his hands in prayer. He is, at this point, praying the prayer of ordination. At that point, the candidates become priests. The two photos thereafter are when the new priests are assisted in donning the vestments proper for the priesthood.
It makes sense that the stole resembles the Jewish stole, considering the origins of Christianity...
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
Mark
thank you so much for shareing the pics and info
Mass was great tonight
never thought i would say that!
just so peaceful and no one breathing down your neck to to this or that
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dmiller
Good luck to them -- one and all.
May their robes continue to be white. <_<
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allan w.
!
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markomalley
Amen!
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jardinero
Hi Mark,
Great pics. Thanks for sharing them.
I was raised Catholic but never knew that there was an office of a deacon within the church. What is their role????
J.
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markomalley
There are two types of deacons. Transitional deacons (which are seminarians in their last year before being ordained priests) and Permanent deacons. Liturgically, their roles are the same. Pastorally, their roles are different:
Liturgically,
Deacons are ordained clergy. They are ordinary ministers of baptism. They can preside over marriages (outside of a Mass) or funerals (outside of a Mass). They are ordinary ministers of communion, but, obviously, not of the Eucharist. They also assist in Confirmation, Ordination, and assist at Mass. There is nothing theologically against them administering the annointing of the sick in of itself, but, as the recipient of the annointing often wish to give their confession, the sacrament of annointing is reserved to the presbyteriate. They can give blessings (with the exception of blessings reserved to the presbyteriate and episcopate). The guidelines in general are that they can perform liturgical functions that do not require acting in persona Christi.
Pastorally,
Permanent deacons play an important role pastorally. They will often be chaplains for schools, hospitals, police and fire agencies, etc. They distribute communion to the homebound. In areas where there is a profound shortage of priests, they may be a pastoral administrator of a parish where no priest is available.
Deacon, of course, comes from the word diakonos. That is the bottom line of their ministry: service.
After the second Vatican Council back in the 60s, the role of permanent deacon was revived. It was seen as an ordained role for mature, married men who felt a call to ministry. So, obviously, ordained men can be ordained to the permanent diaconate, after a period of formation (in my diocese, the formation takes four years). As with other orders, once a person is ordained, he is not allowed to get married. Unlike the other two orders (the presbyteriate and the episcopate), married men are allowed to be ordained in the order of the diaconate.
In my parish we have three priests, four permanent deacons, two seminarians that came out of our parish (they will, of course, be assigned elsewhere once they've been ordained into the presbyteriate), and one man in formation to be ordained into the diaconate (he is scheduled to be ordained in 2008). There are two men who are currently discerning if they wish to go into formation for the diaconate starting in 2007.
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jardinero
Thanks for the explanation, Mark. I guess the parishes I was involved in (even post VII) just never had any deacons.
How are they addressed? "Father"? "Deacon"?
J.
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T-Bone
Thanks, Mark for sharing the great pictures and information...I was raised Roman Catholic but haven't had any interest in learning about this stuff until I began reading your posts - always very sharp and informative. Thanks again.
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markomalley
Informally "Deacon"
Formally (i.e., in writing, "Reverend Mister")
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CoolWaters
During my journey into the Shamanic Path I learned the value of ritual and symbolism. These pictures move me in a way I cannot explain fully in words.
Funny thing, too...
Hubs and I were talking just this morning about looking into Catholicism. I've been wanting to do this for a few years now...hubs has just recently taken an interest.
So what does it take to become a Catholic? What would that mean to our marriage (on 06-06-06 we will be celebrating 26 years)? Our children? My baptism by another church?
TYVM for sharing these pics!
Oh...and can you tell me if there is any particular reason many catholic churches are long and narrow?
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dmiller
Mark -- Not trying to be *fractious* here, but I do have a question (if I may). :)
Is it ok to address a priest or deacon by their name, rather than by title??
Having been raised Catholic --
I've always addressed the priests, nuns, etc., as either *father*, or *sister*.
How about folks that aren't involved in the RCC??
Do they recognize the person, or the title??
What's the protocol for that?
Would *Father Joe* be offended if he were addressed as Joe?
Or would *Sister Regina Marie* be offended if addressed as Regina?
Does the church require that *outsiders* address them by their title?
Like I say -- not trying to be fractious -- but that (imo) sets up a *caste* system.
Just like Protestant churches do with the *Elder*, *Deacon*, and *Reverend* route. ;)
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markomalley
David,
It would be a matter of common courtesy, I'd think.
When you meet another gentleman, you are introduced as "Mr. Miller" and "Mr. O'Malley" -- when you get to know each other better, you may change to Dave and Mark, but the polite norm is "Mr., Mrs., Miss, Ms., Dr., etc."
I regard treating clergy and religious in the same fashion. "Father Miller, Sister Regina, Brother Francis" -- just an extension of that polite form of address.
Now there are plenty of clergy that I've gotten to know where I have no problem addressing them as "Sam, Joe, Jack" -- when shooting pool with them or drinking a beer in the back yard.
But in public or with strangers, I am polite in my address.
(I only know a couple of religious sisters who are young enough to where I'd ever even think of addressing them by their first name only...but that's a matter of respect for age, not title)
I agree with you on the caste system. I chuckle with my priest friends about it...and in honesty, they don't like it much. Because they feel as if they are always in a fishbowl. Seriously. I have one priest friend who drives a VW Jetta. He believes that is the limit of the car that he can drive considering his position (people would talk, dontcha know). He is getting ready to go into the Chaplain Corps soon, so he'll have money. Chaplains get paid as officers. He would love to go out and get a BMW Z car, but doesn't dare do so, as it gives people an excuse to talk about him behind his back.
(btw, contrary to popular belief, diocesan priests are not required to take a vow of poverty, only religious ones are (i.e., Franciscans, Dominicans, etc.). They are paid a stipend -- somewhere between $8k and $12k a year, as well as speaking fees if they run a mission, book royalties if they write, gifts as the result of weddings, funerals, baptisms, etc.)
(another btw, it is considered "normal" to bestow a gift on a priest in that fashion, but it is NOT required)
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markomalley
My suggestion: learn a lot. Attend Mass at a number of different churches in your area -- each is different -- and learn the symbolism. Get a Catechism of the Catholic Church (available at all bookstores) and read it.
The spirituality is significantly different than protestant sects, particularly ones like TWI.
The mechanics are that they have instruction for those who are interested. The instruction takes somewhere around 6 months or so of one night a week. No, they don't charge for it. The stuff is pretty elementary that they teach, particularly for somebody who was heavily involved in TWI.
If you have any questions, PM me with your e-mail and we can talk off-line or ask specific questions and we can talk on-line (albeit guarnateed with a lot of background noise -- "DON'T DO IT")
Why are most churches long?
Most churches are shaped like a cross. Typically, the architecture is vertical, to try to get the occupant to raise his mind toward heaven. Usually what you see is the part of the church that is shaped like the tree of the cross...they will normally have side chapels or the sacristy (where the clergy put their vestments on) at the cross-member part. The altar is typically where the tree and arm meet.
They also have some "church in the round" configurations, as well. And some that are just boxes. But cruciform is the "standard," if you will.
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dmiller
Thanks!! (That's what I thought.)
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