Well, without getting TOO graphic, I learned any worthwhile physical techniques I know from women, even a professional or two. And I don't think I was too adept at passing those lessons on to my significant other. At least SHE never made any comments supporting that conclusion.
And as far as the mental aspects of a loving relationship, I don't think women have any monopoly there either.
It just strikes me as a meaningless bit of "feel-good" blather. It seems to say something profound, when actually it doesn't communicate much at all. I don't know of anything in life that fits into such neat little containers...
I would have to say that I learned about what a woman needs in the realm of sex through trial and error through many partners. But as I learned it and finally came down to marrying, I have been able to teach my novice wife (she was a novice in that realm when young), how to love with her body by getting her to where she could enjoy the benefits of her own physical make up, which she in turn now has gained great confidence and now she is quite good at it and now has much "power over me" as the man because of her "seasoning". And yet at times it is the opposite. A unique form of "take and give".
And I must say, that it is my wife who has taught me many many things about how to be considerate of others' needs, how to think when it comes to social situations by being empathetic, etc. Maybe the term "mind" is a little goofy and could be replaced with some other word. But then again, maybe "mind" is appropriate, for one needs to use one's mind in order to "think" about what will be a blessing to someone else and to make them comfortable. Maybe women contribute this aspect to a relationship because women tend to be more "emotionally motivated" than men and can "see" things better, and then they tell us about it, and if we are not bone headed, we learn something... :)
I think it's a good subject Cowgirl. And I don't think I have ever heard this analogy outside of TWI, and I think that was in CF and S, no?
I hope I didn't say anything to offend you. Today is a beautiful day here in rainy Southeast Alaska where the "monsoons" seem to be ever present. But, the sun has shone from yesterday until today, and it is 5:41 p.m. and the sun is still blazing brightly! And for us, this is almost a miracle! And also, I have had a couple of "cold toddies" toppped with a coupppple of beeerrrs, which proceed a nice ribeye steak barbecue, and now I see that you have had your past stirred up by this. But I was only trying to get back with Cowgirl on the actual details of the "statement" which we learned from VPW. And no matter where he got it from, I didn't find the saying too offensive. BVut, (and I would guess this correctly) I would suppose that anything to do with sex and VPW would be highly offensive to you. And because of this fact, I am sorry that I said anything positive about the quote that Cowgirl brought up.
As it turns out, I was not an active "booty chaser" in The Way, and my wife was nearly a virgin when I married her (not that it mattered to me), and because of this, I must remember to be delicate on topics such as this, for, my wife and I have enjoyed a fairly normal marriage with it's "normal ups and downs" (it's only the four kids who have made us crazy!), and she nor I were part of some of the depraved things that went on with the upper echelon mucky mucks, as you yourself are a witness (ginosko). But I do believe that those things happened, and I must remember that when I post...Bless you, and as Roy says; "A holy kiss blowing your way...
Love you loads, and if my wife could, she would send a hearty hello to your brother...
Well now. I shouldn't say here, should I? Anyway, his first name starts with an "M" and he treated her like gold out at Gunnison where she was his assistant in the auto shop. All of the 7th Corps there kept referring to her as a "grease monkey", and one day at some evening meal, he stood up and reamed everyone and told them that S was not a "grease monkey" but that she was a beautiful sister in Christ and that they had better stop referring to her in that manner or they would have to deal with him!
Galen, Wierwille said it in the Christian Family and Sex class. Looking back, I think he was talking about himself a lot of the time, what would turn HIM on, what HIS sexual experience was like, etc. Does anyone remember his statement about how a woman could make a man almost climax by how she touched his penis? Maybe he was talking about himself....
I've gotta admit that I've been with a few fragile egos when it came to bedroom behavior, and they didn't WANT to hear from me what would turn ME on. Had other parts of our lives been great, it wouldn't have mattered all that much. But in Wierwille's case, I can imagine that his big false self couldn't have handled a hit like, "You're not doing it right, do this." But that he would have no trouble thinking he could "teach" others how to pleasure HIM, with no regard to needing to pleasure THEM in a mutual relationship.
I have met plenty of men who were not boobs when it came to being sensitive to others' feelings, and plenty of women who were (for example, I knew one guy who was big on memorializing special days like the anniversary of our first date, while I am not), so I guess that quote may be enough of a generality as to be worth zero.
So here's what I think is the subtext to what Wierwille was trying to say...
"A man teaches a woman to love with her body {bend over here, touch this, lick that, it turns me on to boss you around}...
"A woman teaches a man to love with her heart {I guess I should hug her once in awhile and not forget our anniversary, so I can later get her to bend over, touch this, lick etc.}."
Exy, you know it wasn't about being an expert at all, it was about his power trip. He wasn't thinking about how it would affect you at all, he didn't care. That is the essence of the Narcissistic Personality: they can't empathize. They think everyone uses everyone else, because that's what they do.
... Galen, Wierwille said it in the Christian Family and Sex class
No doubt he did.
I jsut dont recall that much from CF&S. I was given a copy of the class not long ago, and I did start going through it typing a transcript. However I was interrupted to go build a new house for my family. We are jsut now readying ourselves to move into this new house. So perhaps in a few months I will be able to once again get back to transcribing CF&S.
Ok ok, I get the point, seriously though, some really valid stuff you all shared. I'll be honest, I feel a little silly though, saying "I see alot of truth in the statement" but that's alright, I've put my foot in my mouth quite a few times. I really appreciate the input, thanks!!
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
my wife is knock dead beautiful with a body of a 20 year old {she is 54}
and i love her for her mind.
yeah right! but she is wonderful.
she puts up with me!
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George Aar
I never heard that anywhere but in WayWorld.
But, being as Mr. Wierwille was somewhat less than original in anything he came up with, it wouldn't surprise me if he'd lifted it from somebody else.
All that notwithstanding, I think it's B.S. anyway...
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Cowgirl
Hi George
I'm curious, how come you think it's B.S., can you elaborate on it ?
Cowgirl
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George Aar
Well, without getting TOO graphic, I learned any worthwhile physical techniques I know from women, even a professional or two. And I don't think I was too adept at passing those lessons on to my significant other. At least SHE never made any comments supporting that conclusion.
And as far as the mental aspects of a loving relationship, I don't think women have any monopoly there either.
It just strikes me as a meaningless bit of "feel-good" blather. It seems to say something profound, when actually it doesn't communicate much at all. I don't know of anything in life that fits into such neat little containers...
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J0nny Ling0
I would have to say that I learned about what a woman needs in the realm of sex through trial and error through many partners. But as I learned it and finally came down to marrying, I have been able to teach my novice wife (she was a novice in that realm when young), how to love with her body by getting her to where she could enjoy the benefits of her own physical make up, which she in turn now has gained great confidence and now she is quite good at it and now has much "power over me" as the man because of her "seasoning". And yet at times it is the opposite. A unique form of "take and give".
And I must say, that it is my wife who has taught me many many things about how to be considerate of others' needs, how to think when it comes to social situations by being empathetic, etc. Maybe the term "mind" is a little goofy and could be replaced with some other word. But then again, maybe "mind" is appropriate, for one needs to use one's mind in order to "think" about what will be a blessing to someone else and to make them comfortable. Maybe women contribute this aspect to a relationship because women tend to be more "emotionally motivated" than men and can "see" things better, and then they tell us about it, and if we are not bone headed, we learn something... :)
I think it's a good subject Cowgirl. And I don't think I have ever heard this analogy outside of TWI, and I think that was in CF and S, no?
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excathedra
my first reaction
what a bunch of sheet
i thought it was "body" and "heart"
whatever
the reason i'm sour is as some of you know.... wierwille told me HE should teach me this crap in order to get me over child abuse
so what else can i say
if there was any purity in it, i missed it....
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excathedra
i also find some things in poor taste but that is another story
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Galen
I recall hearing the phrase, though I can not say where.
As to it's accuracy, I dont really see either part of it as being accurate.
:)
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excathedra
i think we agree on this, galen
these little faces annoy me. i can't find my feeling most of the time
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J0nny Ling0
Hi ExCath.
I hope I didn't say anything to offend you. Today is a beautiful day here in rainy Southeast Alaska where the "monsoons" seem to be ever present. But, the sun has shone from yesterday until today, and it is 5:41 p.m. and the sun is still blazing brightly! And for us, this is almost a miracle! And also, I have had a couple of "cold toddies" toppped with a coupppple of beeerrrs, which proceed a nice ribeye steak barbecue, and now I see that you have had your past stirred up by this. But I was only trying to get back with Cowgirl on the actual details of the "statement" which we learned from VPW. And no matter where he got it from, I didn't find the saying too offensive. BVut, (and I would guess this correctly) I would suppose that anything to do with sex and VPW would be highly offensive to you. And because of this fact, I am sorry that I said anything positive about the quote that Cowgirl brought up.
As it turns out, I was not an active "booty chaser" in The Way, and my wife was nearly a virgin when I married her (not that it mattered to me), and because of this, I must remember to be delicate on topics such as this, for, my wife and I have enjoyed a fairly normal marriage with it's "normal ups and downs" (it's only the four kids who have made us crazy!), and she nor I were part of some of the depraved things that went on with the upper echelon mucky mucks, as you yourself are a witness (ginosko). But I do believe that those things happened, and I must remember that when I post...Bless you, and as Roy says; "A holy kiss blowing your way...
Love you loads, and if my wife could, she would send a hearty hello to your brother...
JL
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excathedra
thank you jonny
which brother ?
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J0nny Ling0
Well now. I shouldn't say here, should I? Anyway, his first name starts with an "M" and he treated her like gold out at Gunnison where she was his assistant in the auto shop. All of the 7th Corps there kept referring to her as a "grease monkey", and one day at some evening meal, he stood up and reamed everyone and told them that S was not a "grease monkey" but that she was a beautiful sister in Christ and that they had better stop referring to her in that manner or they would have to deal with him!
Yeah, he was a real stand up guy, that M... :)
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excathedra
i'm drunker than i thought
i thought you were talking about one of MY own brothers
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shazdancer
(Okay, Shazzie getting graphic here...
)
Galen, Wierwille said it in the Christian Family and Sex class. Looking back, I think he was talking about himself a lot of the time, what would turn HIM on, what HIS sexual experience was like, etc. Does anyone remember his statement about how a woman could make a man almost climax by how she touched his penis? Maybe he was talking about himself....
I've gotta admit that I've been with a few fragile egos when it came to bedroom behavior, and they didn't WANT to hear from me what would turn ME on. Had other parts of our lives been great, it wouldn't have mattered all that much. But in Wierwille's case, I can imagine that his big false self couldn't have handled a hit like, "You're not doing it right, do this." But that he would have no trouble thinking he could "teach" others how to pleasure HIM, with no regard to needing to pleasure THEM in a mutual relationship.
I have met plenty of men who were not boobs when it came to being sensitive to others' feelings, and plenty of women who were (for example, I knew one guy who was big on memorializing special days like the anniversary of our first date, while I am not), so I guess that quote may be enough of a generality as to be worth zero.
So here's what I think is the subtext to what Wierwille was trying to say...
"A man teaches a woman to love with her body {bend over here, touch this, lick that, it turns me on to boss you around}...
"A woman teaches a man to love with her heart {I guess I should hug her once in awhile and not forget our anniversary, so I can later get her to bend over, touch this, lick etc.}."
Exy, you know it wasn't about being an expert at all, it was about his power trip. He wasn't thinking about how it would affect you at all, he didn't care. That is the essence of the Narcissistic Personality: they can't empathize. They think everyone uses everyone else, because that's what they do.
-- Shaz
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Galen
No doubt he did.
I jsut dont recall that much from CF&S. I was given a copy of the class not long ago, and I did start going through it typing a transcript. However I was interrupted to go build a new house for my family. We are jsut now readying ourselves to move into this new house. So perhaps in a few months I will be able to once again get back to transcribing CF&S.
Bless you.
:)
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ChasUFarley
exie - I love you! You're so funny!
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dmiller
The ONLY way a man could accomplish this -- is if he had a lot of *practice*.
Too many men are *inept* on their wedding night (ie. - read *haven't got a clue*),
UNLESS they know what they are doing -- and that takes PRACTICE.
I've never heard this outside of twi, so I'm prepared to believe that --
this is the ONLY *original thing* docvic came up with.
Whadda a wonderful *original thought* -- so self serving,
although so *loving* to teach the great *efficacy* of it to
the poor unlearned (female) followers yearning for *truth*.
How many hours of *research* went into this???
Docvic must have *mastered* it somehow,
and was *kind* enough to *teach all he knew*.
What a wonderful thing.
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Cowgirl
Ok ok, I get the point, seriously though, some really valid stuff you all shared. I'll be honest, I feel a little silly though, saying "I see alot of truth in the statement" but that's alright, I've put my foot in my mouth quite a few times. I really appreciate the input, thanks!!
Cowgirl
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J0nny Ling0
Sure Cowgirl. And I hope that anything I shared, would be helpful to you also...
JL
And Excie, you do have a brother named Mark?
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