An ego like 'Arthur Fonzarelli's' at any age isn't something I'd call 'cool'.
Did she marry the Actor... or that 'character' in the body of yet another man?
I know it's different being IN the situation... but I think I would have sought legal help the minute the 'car deal' didn't come through...Seeing someone use, abuse and control another person that lacks self confidence is maddening! (why else would a woman stay with a man like that?)
Paying his bills, even sticking around after he screws another woman… driving him around when he’s sick, only to be picked on for her driving?
Beth stuck around for WAY MORE than I could have endured! I would have LEFT HIM someplace! Found a big bully, and made his daughter sign that Title back over to me! Slipped him ‘something’, making him sign his house over to me …. grrrr
Hope all works out well for her.
Oh, and to answer your question Dot, the 'Fonzi's' I did know way back when, I have no idea what's become of them... don't know of any today... maybe they're afraid of me ;)
I don't think I know anyone like that anymore. The man I've been seeing for some years now would have been considered a geek when I was a teen. I just LOVE geeky men now! He is intelligent, and that is such a turn on to me! I guess that is TMI huh? :)
I married and divorced Fonzi a long time ago. I think some of us women (and men) are attracted to power and confidence. Perhaps we see the "bad boy" as someone who can get things done and not cave under authority. Look how we fell for Wierwille's shtick.
Perhaps there is a mothering thing in us, thinking we can "rescue" this guy and bring out the true, inner good guy. When he looks our way, we think we see goodness, because he chose us, not a bad girl. But the reality is, he chooses us because he needs us to clean up after him, and to be his ever-available worshipper. This kind of bad boy needs a good girl, more than the good girl needs him.
Safari, we stay too long in these relationships, I think, for a couple of reasons. One is that we believe in commitment, and don't want to throw it away over a "misunderstanding." So we work very hard at trying to make the bad guy understand us. The thing is, he probably understands our POV just fine, he just chooses to ignore it!
Another reason is based on the beginning of the relationship. For the first few weeks, months, or even a year of the relationship, the bad-boy-who-looked-our-way makes us feel very special. We admire him, he takes care of us. We love him, he seems to love us back (he has learned to mirror our feelings back to us to gain our trust). Slowly over time, we give more, he gives less. Slowly over time, his resentment of us grows, especially as we begin to call him on his bad behavior. He begins to "put us in our place," trying to point out what bad people we are, worse than he is.
In a few of us, the reasons we stay are more ominous: fear of being alone, fear that the bad guy will harm us if we try to leave. But despite what Wierwille taught, I have never spoken to an abused woman who wanted to be abused, not on any level. And I have spoken to a lot of them.
The Fonzi in my TWI years drank, drugged, smoked, was abusive and unfaithful. When drinking, anything could happen, and sometimes did, usually leaving us broke. After I left him, he moved in with another woman with a better income than mine, before the ink was even dry on the divorce papers. He was happy to sign off on his parental rights, so he wouldn't have to pay child support (which he was behind on at the time). "Fonzi" continued to drink and abuse, and she continued to take him back. He bragged to our kids about his condo and his possessions, while telling them he "doesn't have it right now" when they asked for financial help. Today, I hear he's on oxygen support, probably due to the smoking.
Dear Dot,
I don't buy it that she can't get out. There are professionals who can help her get out with much of her stuff intact, or she can just walk (run!) away and start from scratch. Are there kids involved? Makes it trickier, but all the more necessary. PM me if you want.
3 - we think if we try hard enough we can make it work
4 - we don't see that we are the ones doing all the trying and giving, while fonzi just takes and manipulates
I agree that this woman has options, but have you ever tried to convince one of these gals they CAN leave when (for whatever reasons) they are convinced they CAN'T? It's like putting a druggy into rehab against their will, or trying to show the facts about twi to a kool-aide drinker. It just doesn't work. They can't see it. My sister is currently in a destructive marriage. He doesn't hurt her physically but he has destroyed her self-confidence and sense of self-worth as a person. People warned her before she married him. She didn't listen. People warned her as things got worse. She defended him. Currently she is miserable day in and day out. (At least she's admitted that much. It's a start.) He controls her every waking moment. Still, she won't consider leaving him. Basically, her sense of self-worth has now been tied to making this stupid marriage work. I think that's what all these guys do. It puts them in total control. And I feel completely helpless because she is not ready to take the steps necessary to walk away, now matter how much help I offer her.
What does it take for any of us to realize we are up to our neck in sH!t and get the heck out? I was in a destructive marriage. I knew I was in a destructive marriage. And yet, for years, I was also unwilling to get out of it. For all the reasons listed above. Somehow, these women have to see outside themselves... something bigger, something more important. For me, it took seeing the impact on my kid. I could tolerate almost anything for myself, but when I saw it destroying my kid I said enough was enough. Does this woman have anything she feels more strongly protective about than herself? I'd focus your arguments for her leaving this dangerous and immature guy on those!! In my sister's case, her kids are all grown and gone. She has family and friends who would support her, but so far it isn't enough of a pull for her to do the hard work of leaving the guy: knowing you have to start again from nothing, deal with the embarrassment for having made such a bad decision, and trying to rebuild your trust of yourself and other people. That's HARD. It's SCARY. And sometimes its just easier to stay put.
AMEN, Highway! VERY well said! Nobody tried to warn me before my marriage, but they were afraid to seeing how much control TWI had over my life. Mama tried to convince me once that I was fighting a losing battle and that I could indeed get divorced and still take good care of myself. Lord knows my parents have the money to help me if it ever got THAT bad and they wouldn't hesitate to give it to me before I even asked. I knew that then, too, but it was still such a scary decision.
I took care of myself and made good money BEFORE TWI and marriage, but had been beaten down so low that I was afraid I couldn't do it and that I was too fat and ugly for anyone to ever give me the time of day. Pretty pathetic and discouraging when you still have hopes of having children.
I wouldn't listen to my family and friends at all - first in denial and later because of shame. It took me feeling like I was having a nervous breakdown and fantasizing about dying or him getting killed in the line of duty. I could never harm or kill myself, much less anyone else, but I sure did pray for a robbery gone bad while he was working. Very, very scary to think like that!! That's when I knew it was time to do something. Getting caught sending debt research papers to TWI didn't hurt either.
The sad thing is, Beth didn't marry Fonzie. Though his character changed somewhat from the earliest season, Fonzie always was honorable and would NEVER hurt a woman, physically or otherwise. He was cool, and he was tough, but he wasn't a jerk. It's sad that Beth and others would be attracted to manipulating a-holes. As another poster mentioned, GET OUT of the relationship!
very difficult thread for me having seen my mom live this way. she got involved with this man my father when she was 17-18. she was very naive sheltered and came from a strange dysfunctional type home.
anyway it's almost like he brainwashed (sorry garth) her year after year after year. she eventually bought into the idea that she was an ugly stupid no good dah dah dah
we did finally get out her out of there (way late in my opinion), but i don't think she has every truly healed from the mental beatings, not even the physical ones now that i think of it
like i said, this is difficult. more to say but just can't
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SafariVista
An ego like 'Arthur Fonzarelli's' at any age isn't something I'd call 'cool'.
Did she marry the Actor... or that 'character' in the body of yet another man?
I know it's different being IN the situation... but I think I would have sought legal help the minute the 'car deal' didn't come through...Seeing someone use, abuse and control another person that lacks self confidence is maddening! (why else would a woman stay with a man like that?)
Paying his bills, even sticking around after he screws another woman… driving him around when he’s sick, only to be picked on for her driving?
Beth stuck around for WAY MORE than I could have endured! I would have LEFT HIM someplace! Found a big bully, and made his daughter sign that Title back over to me! Slipped him ‘something’, making him sign his house over to me …. grrrr
Hope all works out well for her.
Oh, and to answer your question Dot, the 'Fonzi's' I did know way back when, I have no idea what's become of them... don't know of any today... maybe they're afraid of me ;)
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excathedra
maybe he'll die "young"
sowwy
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wwjesuslaughat
Do they make black leather Depends?
Beth, dump this jerk and go find Ralph or Potsie. They'll worship the ground you walk on and treat you like you deserve to be treated!
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SafariVista
Didn't see the diapers in black leather... but....
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gc
I don't think I know anyone like that anymore. The man I've been seeing for some years now would have been considered a geek when I was a teen. I just LOVE geeky men now! He is intelligent, and that is such a turn on to me! I guess that is TMI huh? :)
gc
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George Aar
Well, hey, I married Laverne (or was it Shirley?).
Anyway, it didn't turn out any better.
Marriage is a crapshoot at best. If it turned out wonderful for you, you are fortunate indeed.
The rest of us (the majority of us?) didn't fair so well.
Such is life, might as well get used to it...
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shazdancer
I married and divorced Fonzi a long time ago. I think some of us women (and men) are attracted to power and confidence. Perhaps we see the "bad boy" as someone who can get things done and not cave under authority. Look how we fell for Wierwille's shtick.
Perhaps there is a mothering thing in us, thinking we can "rescue" this guy and bring out the true, inner good guy. When he looks our way, we think we see goodness, because he chose us, not a bad girl. But the reality is, he chooses us because he needs us to clean up after him, and to be his ever-available worshipper. This kind of bad boy needs a good girl, more than the good girl needs him.
Safari, we stay too long in these relationships, I think, for a couple of reasons. One is that we believe in commitment, and don't want to throw it away over a "misunderstanding." So we work very hard at trying to make the bad guy understand us. The thing is, he probably understands our POV just fine, he just chooses to ignore it!
Another reason is based on the beginning of the relationship. For the first few weeks, months, or even a year of the relationship, the bad-boy-who-looked-our-way makes us feel very special. We admire him, he takes care of us. We love him, he seems to love us back (he has learned to mirror our feelings back to us to gain our trust). Slowly over time, we give more, he gives less. Slowly over time, his resentment of us grows, especially as we begin to call him on his bad behavior. He begins to "put us in our place," trying to point out what bad people we are, worse than he is.
In a few of us, the reasons we stay are more ominous: fear of being alone, fear that the bad guy will harm us if we try to leave. But despite what Wierwille taught, I have never spoken to an abused woman who wanted to be abused, not on any level. And I have spoken to a lot of them.
The Fonzi in my TWI years drank, drugged, smoked, was abusive and unfaithful. When drinking, anything could happen, and sometimes did, usually leaving us broke. After I left him, he moved in with another woman with a better income than mine, before the ink was even dry on the divorce papers. He was happy to sign off on his parental rights, so he wouldn't have to pay child support (which he was behind on at the time). "Fonzi" continued to drink and abuse, and she continued to take him back. He bragged to our kids about his condo and his possessions, while telling them he "doesn't have it right now" when they asked for financial help. Today, I hear he's on oxygen support, probably due to the smoking.
Dear Dot,
I don't buy it that she can't get out. There are professionals who can help her get out with much of her stuff intact, or she can just walk (run!) away and start from scratch. Are there kids involved? Makes it trickier, but all the more necessary. PM me if you want.
Regards,
Shaz
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TheHighWay
Brilliant post, Shaz. Dead on!!
1 - it was good in the beginning
2 - we believe in commitment
3 - we think if we try hard enough we can make it work
4 - we don't see that we are the ones doing all the trying and giving, while fonzi just takes and manipulates
I agree that this woman has options, but have you ever tried to convince one of these gals they CAN leave when (for whatever reasons) they are convinced they CAN'T? It's like putting a druggy into rehab against their will, or trying to show the facts about twi to a kool-aide drinker. It just doesn't work. They can't see it. My sister is currently in a destructive marriage. He doesn't hurt her physically but he has destroyed her self-confidence and sense of self-worth as a person. People warned her before she married him. She didn't listen. People warned her as things got worse. She defended him. Currently she is miserable day in and day out. (At least she's admitted that much. It's a start.) He controls her every waking moment. Still, she won't consider leaving him. Basically, her sense of self-worth has now been tied to making this stupid marriage work. I think that's what all these guys do. It puts them in total control. And I feel completely helpless because she is not ready to take the steps necessary to walk away, now matter how much help I offer her.
What does it take for any of us to realize we are up to our neck in sH!t and get the heck out? I was in a destructive marriage. I knew I was in a destructive marriage. And yet, for years, I was also unwilling to get out of it. For all the reasons listed above. Somehow, these women have to see outside themselves... something bigger, something more important. For me, it took seeing the impact on my kid. I could tolerate almost anything for myself, but when I saw it destroying my kid I said enough was enough. Does this woman have anything she feels more strongly protective about than herself? I'd focus your arguments for her leaving this dangerous and immature guy on those!! In my sister's case, her kids are all grown and gone. She has family and friends who would support her, but so far it isn't enough of a pull for her to do the hard work of leaving the guy: knowing you have to start again from nothing, deal with the embarrassment for having made such a bad decision, and trying to rebuild your trust of yourself and other people. That's HARD. It's SCARY. And sometimes its just easier to stay put.
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SafariVista
How sad all of this is~
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Belle
AMEN, Highway! VERY well said! Nobody tried to warn me before my marriage, but they were afraid to seeing how much control TWI had over my life. Mama tried to convince me once that I was fighting a losing battle and that I could indeed get divorced and still take good care of myself. Lord knows my parents have the money to help me if it ever got THAT bad and they wouldn't hesitate to give it to me before I even asked. I knew that then, too, but it was still such a scary decision.
I took care of myself and made good money BEFORE TWI and marriage, but had been beaten down so low that I was afraid I couldn't do it and that I was too fat and ugly for anyone to ever give me the time of day. Pretty pathetic and discouraging when you still have hopes of having children.
I wouldn't listen to my family and friends at all - first in denial and later because of shame. It took me feeling like I was having a nervous breakdown and fantasizing about dying or him getting killed in the line of duty. I could never harm or kill myself, much less anyone else, but I sure did pray for a robbery gone bad while he was working. Very, very scary to think like that!! That's when I knew it was time to do something. Getting caught sending debt research papers to TWI didn't hurt either.
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Sushi
Remind you of any organizations you might have run into?
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GeorgeStGeorge
The sad thing is, Beth didn't marry Fonzie. Though his character changed somewhat from the earliest season, Fonzie always was honorable and would NEVER hurt a woman, physically or otherwise. He was cool, and he was tough, but he wasn't a jerk. It's sad that Beth and others would be attracted to manipulating a-holes. As another poster mentioned, GET OUT of the relationship!
George
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excathedra
very difficult thread for me having seen my mom live this way. she got involved with this man my father when she was 17-18. she was very naive sheltered and came from a strange dysfunctional type home.
anyway it's almost like he brainwashed (sorry garth) her year after year after year. she eventually bought into the idea that she was an ugly stupid no good dah dah dah
we did finally get out her out of there (way late in my opinion), but i don't think she has every truly healed from the mental beatings, not even the physical ones now that i think of it
like i said, this is difficult. more to say but just can't
and you know, dottie
love you
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washingtonweather
all the Fonzi's I knew ended uo in Jail....You know Dot...that Pittsburgh coolness thing.
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