I completely agree with you. An apology from twi would be useless to me at this point in my life. I just don't think I would believe any apology offered on the behalf of the organization.
That said, a personal apology from LCM and Michael Fort........if they were honest and from their hearts,and I believed they were from their hearts, their apologies would go along way in helping me leave the past behind.
It wouldn't mean too much to me one way or the other (having said that, I never was in the situation that so many posters were during their time in). Not like I'd plan on going back to TWI either way.
But I would be VERY happy if they did a <u><b>FULL</b></u> disclosure to their people. That would certainly help take the leaders off of the ivory pedastal and put them in the position of feet washing. Which is where Christian leaders should be anyway. Then if the innies decided to follow their leaders, they would be able to do so from a position of understanding and conscious agreement, rather than from a position of idolatry and with their heads in ostrich position.
Do I think that is likely to happen? I'm not holding my breath!
If I saw genuine remorse, it would mean some to me. However, I would need to see the apology backed up with a lot of action to make amends (teaching correct doctine, not expecting all our money, not ruling us like we're incompetent fools, etc) before I took the apology as sincere.
I do believe people can change. I also believe in forgiveness. But it would take a lot of convincing. I still would not go back, but at least I would know they were sorry & correcting their mistakes.
Then if the innies decided to follow their leaders, they would be able to do so from a position of understanding and conscious agreement, rather than from a position of idolatry and with their heads in ostrich position.
Any innies might be wise to note that when one's head is in the ostrich position, one's derriere is, um, how should I say... ah....
I received validation and healing a long time ago from Waydale and then from GSC.
And it's not like TWI's opinion of me means anything to me.
When the former trustees.....Craig, Don & Howard.....unjustly marked/avoided me and my wife to help cover for craig's sexcapades in the mid-90s, they then proceeded to slander our reputations on the next corps meeting. From what I heard, Martindale was venomous in his attacks on our decades of service to twi while Don & Howard sat in silence.
Martindale labeled me as possessed with a devil spirit. And, four different versions of lies were circulated to other states where we had admirably served. The process of these character assassinations kept any and all corps who knew us to avoid us like the plague.....for several years, until martindale's ouster.
Today..........craig is exiled, don is dead, and howard is retired emeritus.
What kind of apology would undo what those guys set in motion??? Or, would an apology from the newer version of trustees have any meaning??? Absurd, isn't it? Twi's apology would be meaningless and about a decade too late. Martindale could/should apologize........probably more for his benefit than mine.
No amount of twi explaining or apologizing would bring closure for me. Their silence only exposed their manipulative underbelly in setting lies in motion.
Twi's board of trustees betrayed me and my wife. Their blatant disregard for our lives was a tough pill to swallow.......but when Waydale came onboard, we found to be counted among the many.
I agree that an apology from twi at this point would be quite meaningless...
...however, if they wanted to do something constructive, they could refund my money to me. 13 years of abs, all the dough I spent on classes and seminars, and they could throw in one of those cushmans...I always enjoyed riding on those...
There was a king in the OT. Manassah, I think. He was king for over 50 years and he killed a lot of Israelites who were innocent, he forced idolatry on priests and such...did all kinds of really bad things, but late in his life he repented. God noted his change of heart, but there were severe consequences that had to happen anyway. So his "apology" was for his benefit alone, not for the people he'd hurt.
George Wallace renounced his racism at some point, but how many black people do you suppose cared?
I can't help thinking of Joseph, whose brothers sold him into slavery. Then 22 years later when Joseph was the guy they had to go to for food during the famine, their talk among themselves revealed that they had been extremely guilt ridden for what they'd done. Then after Jacob died some 17 years later they still thought Joseph would do something to get even with them. Some things people do will apparently haunt them for life no matter what apologies are exchanged.
I agree it's up to individuals to apologize to whomever they wronged, not for TWI as a corporation to issue a blanket apology to whom it may concern.
So why talk of a apology if no one would accept it, how ridiculous is that. This is the craziest thing I have ever seen. The person who made the post said If the apologized I would not accept it, so then why even make a topic around that.
"Thank God for DR.VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE and the teachings of this wonderful man apostle"
You have got to be kidding me. You must be posting here just to pi$$ people off (and I am taking the bait). Wierwill was a predator and cult leader who took thousands of people for millions of dollars - the furthest thing from an apostle.
Your signature is even more repulsive that the fact that your believing that the holocaust was a myth.
You are one sick puppy CK - and as a psychologist (earned degree, not a fake one like your hero) - you need treatment.
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bowtwi
I feel the same way.
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Radar OReilly
Hopefull,
I completely agree with you. An apology from twi would be useless to me at this point in my life. I just don't think I would believe any apology offered on the behalf of the organization.
That said, a personal apology from LCM and Michael Fort........if they were honest and from their hearts,and I believed they were from their hearts, their apologies would go along way in helping me leave the past behind.
Radar
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TheHighWay
Radar, exactly!!
A "corporate" apology would mean nothing.
REAL healing would only come from a personal, individual, genuine apology.
I'm not holding my breath.
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markomalley
It wouldn't mean too much to me one way or the other (having said that, I never was in the situation that so many posters were during their time in). Not like I'd plan on going back to TWI either way.
But I would be VERY happy if they did a <u><b>FULL</b></u> disclosure to their people. That would certainly help take the leaders off of the ivory pedastal and put them in the position of feet washing. Which is where Christian leaders should be anyway. Then if the innies decided to follow their leaders, they would be able to do so from a position of understanding and conscious agreement, rather than from a position of idolatry and with their heads in ostrich position.
Do I think that is likely to happen? I'm not holding my breath!
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Vyctorya911
If I saw genuine remorse, it would mean some to me. However, I would need to see the apology backed up with a lot of action to make amends (teaching correct doctine, not expecting all our money, not ruling us like we're incompetent fools, etc) before I took the apology as sincere.
I do believe people can change. I also believe in forgiveness. But it would take a lot of convincing. I still would not go back, but at least I would know they were sorry & correcting their mistakes.
Vyctorya
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allan w.
Which is exzactly why they won't apologise.
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Catcup
Any innies might be wise to note that when one's head is in the ostrich position, one's derriere is, um, how should I say... ah....
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ChattyKathy
BRAVO!
Perfectly spoken I might add.
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skyrider
When the former trustees.....Craig, Don & Howard.....unjustly marked/avoided me and my wife to help cover for craig's sexcapades in the mid-90s, they then proceeded to slander our reputations on the next corps meeting. From what I heard, Martindale was venomous in his attacks on our decades of service to twi while Don & Howard sat in silence.
Martindale labeled me as possessed with a devil spirit. And, four different versions of lies were circulated to other states where we had admirably served. The process of these character assassinations kept any and all corps who knew us to avoid us like the plague.....for several years, until martindale's ouster.
Today..........craig is exiled, don is dead, and howard is retired emeritus.
What kind of apology would undo what those guys set in motion??? Or, would an apology from the newer version of trustees have any meaning??? Absurd, isn't it? Twi's apology would be meaningless and about a decade too late. Martindale could/should apologize........probably more for his benefit than mine.
No amount of twi explaining or apologizing would bring closure for me. Their silence only exposed their manipulative underbelly in setting lies in motion.
Twi's board of trustees betrayed me and my wife. Their blatant disregard for our lives was a tough pill to swallow.......but when Waydale came onboard, we found to be counted among the many.
I have found peace, wonderful peace.
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ChattyKathy
I agree.
I don't need his apology for me anymore.
(Excellent points besides the ones I've noted also....good thread!)
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dmiller
If they could apologize now,
they could have done the same back then.
They didn't.
An apology (these days), would be meaningless.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I agree that an apology from twi at this point would be quite meaningless...
...however, if they wanted to do something constructive, they could refund my money to me. 13 years of abs, all the dough I spent on classes and seminars, and they could throw in one of those cushmans...I always enjoyed riding on those...
...do ya hear me Rosie?
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johniam
There was a king in the OT. Manassah, I think. He was king for over 50 years and he killed a lot of Israelites who were innocent, he forced idolatry on priests and such...did all kinds of really bad things, but late in his life he repented. God noted his change of heart, but there were severe consequences that had to happen anyway. So his "apology" was for his benefit alone, not for the people he'd hurt.
George Wallace renounced his racism at some point, but how many black people do you suppose cared?
I can't help thinking of Joseph, whose brothers sold him into slavery. Then 22 years later when Joseph was the guy they had to go to for food during the famine, their talk among themselves revealed that they had been extremely guilt ridden for what they'd done. Then after Jacob died some 17 years later they still thought Joseph would do something to get even with them. Some things people do will apparently haunt them for life no matter what apologies are exchanged.
I agree it's up to individuals to apologize to whomever they wronged, not for TWI as a corporation to issue a blanket apology to whom it may concern.
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Kevlar2000
"Open for business"
:blink:
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ChattyKathy
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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outandabout
Wouldn't mean much to me either.
I wouldn't trust their motives.
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ckmkeon
So why talk of a apology if no one would accept it, how ridiculous is that. This is the craziest thing I have ever seen. The person who made the post said If the apologized I would not accept it, so then why even make a topic around that.
CK
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Oakspear
And I've yet to see you discuss his teachings, or show any sign that you understand them, so what exactly are you thankful for? :blink:
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DesertVis
CK says:
"Thank God for DR.VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE and the teachings of this wonderful man apostle"
You have got to be kidding me. You must be posting here just to pi$$ people off (and I am taking the bait). Wierwill was a predator and cult leader who took thousands of people for millions of dollars - the furthest thing from an apostle.
Your signature is even more repulsive that the fact that your believing that the holocaust was a myth.
You are one sick puppy CK - and as a psychologist (earned degree, not a fake one like your hero) - you need treatment.
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excathedra
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha tell us how you really feel DesertVis
first of all, who is TWI ? how can TWI apologize ? oh never mind i'm in a ....y mood.....
who hurts people ? people hurt people
shut up ex :)
nighty night
who in the heck thought of filtering a p i ss y mood
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ckmkeon
I have direct knowledge of his apostleship.
CK
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Shellon
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dmiller
Care to eloborate on that??
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skyrider
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