You know, we?ve been back and forth a few hundred times on these things about Dr?s character. I?ve stated my stand, and I?ve been explaining it a lot and will be doing more soon. But you all know by now the thrust of my posts, and you know I?ll be heading there soon.
But really! What would you rather talk about, the Return of Christ or the return of some bad memories? Let?s steer this thread in the direction of some neat things on our relationship with Christ, and how we can become him.
It?s not becoming him for us to descend from the spiritual understanding we put so much work into. There are MANY big breakthroughs in understanding for us to enjoy. Surely I?ve delivered on my promise to deliver data, new data, and lost data. There?s more, much more.
When the ministry was melting down and many top leaders were keeping totally quiet about it, I was often outraged at one of the strategies they used to dodge my questions. I had a legitimate reason for knowing what was happening, yet they stonewalled me with illegitimate dodges. One of the dodges they used, that was the hardest for me to refute was a certain scripture.
It took years to see around this dodge, but when I finally did I realized the scripture was for everyday living, with the personality clashes that occur when people live and work together. What was happening at that time was spiritually catastrophic, the ministry meltdown, and this verse was quite impractical.
But for the non-catastrophic situation here, the normal personality clashes that occur when people make up a cyber community together, I think this passage of scripture is a legitimate standard that we can live up to. Now some might say that my appearance here is catastrophic, but even THAT?S been thrashed about in at least 3 threads, and very long ones at that.
So, just for those of you that still believe the Bible (I do), and even those that don?t, this scripture I propose we ponder a bit from time to time.
Philippians 4:5-8
Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.
Let your moderation be known unto all men.
The Lord is at hand [in us]. Be careful [anxious] for nothing;
but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving
let your requests be made known unto God.
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding,
shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Finally, brethren,
whatsoever things are true,
whatsoever things are honest,
whatsoever things are just,
whatsoever things are pure,
whatsoever things are lovely,
whatsoever things are of good report;
if there be any virtue,
and if there be any praise,
think on these things.
I still have lots of stuff that fits in these categories to post.
That?s a good question. One gross reason is time, but in the finer analysis I can always find time if other factors weren?t also present.
One is because I am very aware of the disturbance I?ve ?caused? here, and I want to minimize that. If I go to another thread, I have to think if that move is going to cause more trouble than the good I think I can deliver. I don?t want to disturb the peace there.
Plus I think it?s only fair to let people talk about me or my favorite topics without my interference. I can certainly read such threads, but again time is scarce often.
Once in a while I do visit, but I try and keep it short. Once in a while I?ve felt like I blended in as friends, which I like. This may seem strange but in a way I?ve bonded with this place and a lot of people. Even with people who give me a hard time here, I easily remember my parents and siblings getting into it often, but always remembering the limit of love in the family. A handful of people here I know from long ago, and I really have been reading since Waydale?s beginnings. I knew this place, and some of the more prolific posters LONG before I ever started posting.
I?ve paid a high price for believing what I believe, and I?m very much used to people hating me for it. I try to make the best of the situation, and here I?m the most successful. At least I get a lot of conversation and stimulating thought, and unlike my guesses about splinter groups, I don't get kicked out. Kicked, yes, but not kicked OUT.
This is the best large scale PFAL grad social scene I know of, as I?ve mentioned before, so I do appreciate it. I want to behave myself the best I can, considering the tradition busting bombshells I tend to bring in. It?s easy for me to intend to visit a thread, but those already there can understandably see it as me barging in.
There is a thread on the Open Forum about quitting this site, and I don't go there because I don't even want to think about quitting here. There is a bonding process that takes place. It's hard to imagine quitting, even though I've offered Paw to bow out gracefully if there's a problem he sees with me staying.
I do like to talk about other things and have done it a bit, but the amount of things that have been discovered in the PFAL record overwhelms my small talk. As time goes by, and people see that my doctrine is only a tradition threat and not a practical threat, and that it promotes greater appreciation for and adherence to the original Bible, it?s Author and His Son, then I think I?ll be more welcome on other threads.
In the threads that I start, at least I know that everyone volunteers to come in and see my posts, and I haven?t shoved anything in anyone?s faces. As for the boo?s, I?m used to them; and to me getting the hook, I?d say this stage is big enough for all of us.
.
.
[This message was edited by Mike on April 15, 2003 at 2:40.]
quote: As time goes by, and people see that my doctrine is only a tradition threat and not a practical threat, and that it promotes greater appreciation for and adherence to the original Bible, it?s Author and His Son, then I think I?ll be more welcome on other threads.
It might have worked better the other way around: Had you sought a genuine rapport first, rather than going straight for the prophet-like announcements of reconciliation and ruin.
But your "confrontational-sermons-first" approach seems to have already ruined most of your chances for decent small talk here.
I honestly hope its not too late.
You seem like an interesting dude.
I, for one, don't feel threatened by what you promote.
I just think yer a dork who is gambling with more than he has and has gotten too comfortable getting picked on.
To tell ya the truth, I remember neither your WBTB question nor Paw's Principle. Too many scrolls ago. I try to live in the moment, now that bible practice is over and the band is playing.
But I dare ya to post on your latest parody thread without preaching.
I just saw that thread a little while ago and thought I was in Superman's Bizarro World. I applied the idea I shared above in not barging. I'm tired, and just started on filling out my tax forms. The old 1040 kinda kills the kicks of komedy.
If I locate the spot and e-mail you the coordinates, would you like try it out the WBTB according to P'sP?
Well at least you're thinking about it, the WBTB. When you think that people bet their life on it, shouldn't they at least have it well thought through?
Writing it out is a whole other matter, but I'd think everyone would want to think it through real carefully at least once in their adult lifetime.
I ran into it often in NYC street witnessing and on college campuses. It took twice as long for me to solve WBTB for my life as it took me to solve the mirror riddle.
And many people have not, yet still bet their lives on it.
And many people have, then bet their lives on it.
And many people rethink it quite a few times and in different ways each time during the crossroads in their lives, and even change their wager.
And many even consider other people's scriptures in their calculations.
And many do not even include the Bible, yet still ask the same kind of "why" of something else, and some even bet their lives on it.
I know you may deny this, but other people have thought through WBTB without having ever heard of PFAL.
And yes, some people were aided in thinking through WBTB because of having learned PFAL.
I myself am not done thinking about WBTB.
I don't wanna be done thinking about it.
And I feel no need to bet my life right now.
My true life is not at stake over my WBTB.
Ya know, the whole lie in Eden seems based on false risk expressed with a reverse psychology of sorts. And this subtlety is still written in the double-helix of most religions, which, to me, includes PFAL as a small but potent mutant strain of grand ole' protestant Christianity.
I do not believe that VPs gamble ("I would rather be wrong and live like it was true, than live like it was not true and be right," (or however the heck he put it)) defines the only two games in town.
And this stuff is wearing me out too:
quote:I ran into it often in NYC street witnessing and on college campuses. It took twice as long for me to solve WBTB for my life as it took me to solve the mirror riddle.
Neither the order nor the pace in which you learned the various lessons of your life matches ANYONE else's divine curriculum. Get it?
No more schoolmaster.
Only two laws worth betting your life on.
At least I'm thinking about it?
Indeed.
Many of "us" are.
Forget it.
This is a yawnathon.
I am logging out and quitting acronyms cold turkey.
Have you noticed how my question "Why believe the Bible?" has gone untouched?
Because it's a DODGE, Mike. You're not asking because you want an answer. You're asking because you want to draw attention away from your own thesis. It's clever, but it's a dodge. I doubt your sincerity.
quote:In your apology to SGA, you mention you assumed ~ perhaps from some preconceived call ~ that he was evil because he may have been agnostic ????
(or something to that effect ~ I can't cut and paste here)
Being agnostic makes you evil isn't in my book.
Is it in yours?
Ginger, you are so far off the mark here that it is rediculous. Either that or you are attempting attribute a view upon me that I do not esposue. It was Todd that called my repsonse to Mike evil. I never in any way referred to Todd or agnostism as being evil. Never. I don't know what you were reading, but is was not my post. You should be more careful or more honest. I do not appreciate being misrepresented -if that is the case.
Agnostism is an admitted unknowing. I actually have much more respect for that than for someone like Mike. My first (errant) response to Todd was about prospectives. My point, though errantly aimed, was that what is "evil" to an evangleical, scripture-believing Christian would certainly be different than what evil is to is to an agnostic. The Christian would define evil in the context of scripture, while the agnostic would define evil in a humanistic or secular way.
I suggest you go back and read again and try reading what I actually wrote.
I am sure there must be some Iraqis who long to have Saddam restored to power.....
Mike reminds me of such deluded souls.
Here's a new interepretation of TWI history: When the nasty Nazi bible thug who terrorized everyone into submission FINALLY mercifully assumed room temperature, everyone was free to leave.
And so they did.
And the Nasty Mini-Me Dance Boy thug who tooks his place only succeeded in madly accelerating the exodus.
Doesn't this make more sense than arguing that nobody parsed PFAL and understood it the way that MR. Weirwille wished for it to be understood as the reason for TWI's downfall? Just cuz we didn't kick over the gravestones and desecrate the Fountain of Dead A$$HOLES doesn't mean that people weren't extremely relieved at the death of Mr. Weirwille. According to a lot of accounts I've read, the TWI leadership actually exhibited a lot of relief at FINALLY having the foot of a cruel, despotic tyrant lifted off their necks.
Only Mike thinks such a horrible thug is a wonderful idea!
Todd - I want to address a few things you brought up in response to my post about the absence of a dichotomy of natural/spiritual realms in the Word of God.
I didn't write that Pythagoras *invented* the dichotomy, I just said he introduced it into western thinking. Ol' Pyth probably got it from the Egyptians, along with his geometry. The dichotomy of realms view also seems to have been pretty dominant in the region of India for a long time.
Swedenborg reintroduced the idea to western thinking in the mid-1700s, but he did it with a "Christian" spin. Some of the spiritualists, like Madam Blavatsky started importing the Hindu variety in the late-1800s, early-1900s. It seems the Hindu variety achieved a certain prominence in popular culture with the Beatles. Maybe that helped prepare the ground for PFAL's attraction to hippie-types in the early '70s.
You asked about apparent references to the dichotomy of natural/spiritual realms in the last part of I Corinthians 15. I take it you mean verses 35 through 50 of that chapter.
The first thing to notice is that the word "realm" (or "kingdom") doesn't occur anywhere in the section. The context is set in verse 35, "with what body do they [the resurrected] come?". The contrasts here are not regarding two different "realms", they are regarding different (not necessarily just two) types of "bodies".
Verses 36-38 compare death and resurrection to the planting of a seed, and the resultant eventual springing forth of a plant from that seed. In our social system, we recognize the continuity of life between the acorn and the oak, but they didn't necessarily recognize that continuity in first century society. We have to view this through *their* understanding.
The point Paul is making in 36-38 is that plants, which have one kind of body, come from seeds, which have a different kind of body. When the dead are resurrected, they won't have the same type of body they had before they died (so don't worry about being a "night of the living dead" zombie).
In verse 39 Paul contrasts different types of flesh; human, animal, fish, bird.
In verses 40 he contrasts earthly bodies with heavenly bodies, and then in verse 41 Paul contrasts the differing "glories" of different heavenly bodies. He lists them; sun, moon and stars.
Literally speaking, the heavens are what you see when you go outside and look up. The ancients believed that the sun, moon and stars were gods, so the word "heavens" took on a figurative meaning of "where the gods dwell". The Word of God often uses "heaven" in a figurative sense to indicate the place where God lives. It is not literally in a different realm or cosmos.
Plato wrote about a dichotomy between an imperfect sensible realm and a realm of perfect, insensible forms or ideas. When people interpreted the Word of God through Platonist intellectual-filters, they associated Plato's imperfect, sensible realm with the earth, and his perfect realm of ideas with the scriptural "heavens". This is an imperfect... as Mike might say, "5-senses"... association.
It's not thugery I'm interested in. Not at all. When I saw Corpsmen imitating Dr's temper and mannerisms I could puke. I saw THAT thugery a lot. Even in some women. Terrible imitations they all were. Dr had earned my respect, but the Corps demanded it. I see those same traits in some here; it?s very human.
So how many now have the knee jerk reaction to that by saying ?VPW trained those Corps to behave that way.? To which, I respond ?Since it?s ALL a matter of training, then who trained VPW? Why not track him or them down? Why is it that the buck stops with Dr? Is it just that he?s a more convenient target?
This thread?s aim is to remind and enrich our understanding of the differences between the physical realm and the spiritual realm. If there was EVER a time or topic to apply this verse, this is it:
?For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.?
One of the adversary?s greatest tricks is to get people focused on flesh, thinking that is their enemy. Not only does this error fuel fire for feuds for generations, it also drives all the law oriented religions with pressures, and all the license religions with pleasures.
The flesh is not where we find our TRUE enemies, just victims. This flesh enemy distraction allows the adversary to operate unobstructed behind the scenes. By focusing mental energy on the flesh, we remain weak and unable to counter him. Five senses wise, he?s smarter than spiritually unassisted humans. To be spiritually smart we need to focus on God, His, Word, and His Son, not who?s a thug or not. THAT?s a great way to become a thug yourself, by thinking about it a lot.
Besides tricking us to focus on flesh, and even better ploy of the adversary is to get us to fight each other?s flesh.
quote:So how many now have the knee jerk reaction to that by saying ?VPW trained those Corps to behave that way.? To which, I respond ?Since it?s ALL a matter of training, then who trained VPW? Why not track him or them down? Why is it that the buck stops with Dr? Is it just that he?s a more convenient target?
No, it's not because he is a more convenient target (although he was a very large and inviting target who bled profusely when struck). It's because he first invented and then ruled with unquestioned authority a nasty cult that is the central subject of this site. He demanded and recieved nothing less than complete, unquestioned devotion from his glassy-eyed followers.
And who said Mr. Weirwille was "trained?" When I read about the reluctant actions his desparing overseers in the church where he was briefly employed were forced to take, I see nothing that indicated Mr. Weirwille was "trainable." The man was obviously an meglomaniac, ambitious, scheming, ruthless tyrant from the get go.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
82
119
656
81
Popular Days
Jun 15
86
Jul 3
73
Jul 12
50
Mar 31
49
Top Posters In This Topic
Raf 82 posts
mj412 119 posts
Mike 656 posts
Steve Lortz 81 posts
Popular Days
Jun 15 2003
86 posts
Jul 3 2003
73 posts
Jul 12 2003
50 posts
Mar 31 2003
49 posts
Popular Posts
Yanagisawa
Did you say "get the ball rolling" or get the kaballa rolling...for it sounds like that's your current freak - some sort of hidden, mystical kaballa-esque gnostic esotericism. I'm fascinated with you
shazdancer
Mike,
You said this about the spirit of lust:
Guess you don't know much about women!
And I guess you also don't know very much about sexually abusive men, either!
Your post was so absurd, I had to laugh out loud. And you want to be left alone to post this stuff as doctrine, unchallenged? Guess again.
shaz
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Shaz,
So what else is new?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
You know, we?ve been back and forth a few hundred times on these things about Dr?s character. I?ve stated my stand, and I?ve been explaining it a lot and will be doing more soon. But you all know by now the thrust of my posts, and you know I?ll be heading there soon.
But really! What would you rather talk about, the Return of Christ or the return of some bad memories? Let?s steer this thread in the direction of some neat things on our relationship with Christ, and how we can become him.
It?s not becoming him for us to descend from the spiritual understanding we put so much work into. There are MANY big breakthroughs in understanding for us to enjoy. Surely I?ve delivered on my promise to deliver data, new data, and lost data. There?s more, much more.
When the ministry was melting down and many top leaders were keeping totally quiet about it, I was often outraged at one of the strategies they used to dodge my questions. I had a legitimate reason for knowing what was happening, yet they stonewalled me with illegitimate dodges. One of the dodges they used, that was the hardest for me to refute was a certain scripture.
It took years to see around this dodge, but when I finally did I realized the scripture was for everyday living, with the personality clashes that occur when people live and work together. What was happening at that time was spiritually catastrophic, the ministry meltdown, and this verse was quite impractical.
But for the non-catastrophic situation here, the normal personality clashes that occur when people make up a cyber community together, I think this passage of scripture is a legitimate standard that we can live up to. Now some might say that my appearance here is catastrophic, but even THAT?S been thrashed about in at least 3 threads, and very long ones at that.
So, just for those of you that still believe the Bible (I do), and even those that don?t, this scripture I propose we ponder a bit from time to time.
Philippians 4:5-8
Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.
Let your moderation be known unto all men.
The Lord is at hand [in us]. Be careful [anxious] for nothing;
but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving
let your requests be made known unto God.
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding,
shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Finally, brethren,
whatsoever things are true,
whatsoever things are honest,
whatsoever things are just,
whatsoever things are pure,
whatsoever things are lovely,
whatsoever things are of good report;
if there be any virtue,
and if there be any praise,
think on these things.
I still have lots of stuff that fits in these categories to post.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JesseJoe
Rejoice in the VP alway: and again I say, Rejoice.
Let your moderation be known unto all men, but do what you want behind closed doors.
The Lord is dead but his great PFAL is at hand. Be careful [anxious] for nothing, and do what you want and don?t sweat it;
in every thing by rationalization and illogic with deceitfulness
let your knowledge be made known.
And the peace of PFAL, which passeth all logical understanding,
shall keep your hearts and minds twisted.
Finally, brethren,
whatsoever things are true according to Mike,
whatsoever things are honest according to Mike,
whatsoever things are just according to Mike,
whatsoever things are pure according to Mike,
whatsoever things are lovely according to Mike,
whatsoever things are of good report according to Mike,
if there be any virtue,
and if there be any praise,
renew your mind to these things.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Ah come on Jesse Joe, why go in that direction?
Can't you see I'm not into hurting people? What I've seen heals people?
Weren't you at one time very blessed in PFAL?
It's THAT genuine stuff that's been carefully weeded out that I'm trying to get into.
I KNOW things went wrong, so why not lets try to make them go right? That's all I'm tring to get into.
Can't we make a truce on that?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
Mike,
Heerz a few honest questions for ya:
Why are almost all of your posts on threads also started by you?
Why don't you wanna talk about anything else here but your message?
This is an open mic coffee shop, and it seems yer way past being booed off stage.
Todd
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Sirguessalot,
That?s a good question. One gross reason is time, but in the finer analysis I can always find time if other factors weren?t also present.
One is because I am very aware of the disturbance I?ve ?caused? here, and I want to minimize that. If I go to another thread, I have to think if that move is going to cause more trouble than the good I think I can deliver. I don?t want to disturb the peace there.
Plus I think it?s only fair to let people talk about me or my favorite topics without my interference. I can certainly read such threads, but again time is scarce often.
Once in a while I do visit, but I try and keep it short. Once in a while I?ve felt like I blended in as friends, which I like. This may seem strange but in a way I?ve bonded with this place and a lot of people. Even with people who give me a hard time here, I easily remember my parents and siblings getting into it often, but always remembering the limit of love in the family. A handful of people here I know from long ago, and I really have been reading since Waydale?s beginnings. I knew this place, and some of the more prolific posters LONG before I ever started posting.
I?ve paid a high price for believing what I believe, and I?m very much used to people hating me for it. I try to make the best of the situation, and here I?m the most successful. At least I get a lot of conversation and stimulating thought, and unlike my guesses about splinter groups, I don't get kicked out. Kicked, yes, but not kicked OUT.
This is the best large scale PFAL grad social scene I know of, as I?ve mentioned before, so I do appreciate it. I want to behave myself the best I can, considering the tradition busting bombshells I tend to bring in. It?s easy for me to intend to visit a thread, but those already there can understandably see it as me barging in.
There is a thread on the Open Forum about quitting this site, and I don't go there because I don't even want to think about quitting here. There is a bonding process that takes place. It's hard to imagine quitting, even though I've offered Paw to bow out gracefully if there's a problem he sees with me staying.
I do like to talk about other things and have done it a bit, but the amount of things that have been discovered in the PFAL record overwhelms my small talk. As time goes by, and people see that my doctrine is only a tradition threat and not a practical threat, and that it promotes greater appreciation for and adherence to the original Bible, it?s Author and His Son, then I think I?ll be more welcome on other threads.
In the threads that I start, at least I know that everyone volunteers to come in and see my posts, and I haven?t shoved anything in anyone?s faces. As for the boo?s, I?m used to them; and to me getting the hook, I?d say this stage is big enough for all of us.
.
.
[This message was edited by Mike on April 15, 2003 at 2:40.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Yanagisawa
mike:
the extreme length and frequency of your posts
and the number of times you use "I", "me" "my", etc tell me you love being here, and you love the attention.
Your splashy stance gives you a raison de etre...that's why some people warned us not to feed the bears.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
Fair enough, Mike.
It might have worked better the other way around: Had you sought a genuine rapport first, rather than going straight for the prophet-like announcements of reconciliation and ruin.
But your "confrontational-sermons-first" approach seems to have already ruined most of your chances for decent small talk here.
I honestly hope its not too late.
You seem like an interesting dude.
I, for one, don't feel threatened by what you promote.
I just think yer a dork who is gambling with more than he has and has gotten too comfortable getting picked on.
For what its worth,
I've been a dork b4 too.
Todd
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Todd,
Have you noticed how my question "Why believe the Bible?" has gone untouched?
Do you want to touch it and apply Pawtucket's Principle?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
Do I wanna touch it?
Sounds a bit too kinky for me.
To tell ya the truth, I remember neither your WBTB question nor Paw's Principle. Too many scrolls ago. I try to live in the moment, now that bible practice is over and the band is playing.
But I dare ya to post on your latest parody thread without preaching.
Who knows?
You might even make some friends.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Todd,
I just saw that thread a little while ago and thought I was in Superman's Bizarro World. I applied the idea I shared above in not barging. I'm tired, and just started on filling out my tax forms. The old 1040 kinda kills the kicks of komedy.
If I locate the spot and e-mail you the coordinates, would you like try it out the WBTB according to P'sP?
Or I could paste it here for you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
Render unto Caesar, dude.
Try not to let him kill your joy.
Besides, I'll wager that I'm worse off this year then you are.
Truth is, tweakin' the "WBTB with the P'sP" sounds like quite the yawnathon. But I might humor you a post or two if you start a private topic.
Mike, the secret of not barging in is NOT to barge in.
Play in time. Play in tune.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Todd,
Well at least you're thinking about it, the WBTB. When you think that people bet their life on it, shouldn't they at least have it well thought through?
Writing it out is a whole other matter, but I'd think everyone would want to think it through real carefully at least once in their adult lifetime.
I ran into it often in NYC street witnessing and on college campuses. It took twice as long for me to solve WBTB for my life as it took me to solve the mirror riddle.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
"Why believe the Bible?"
Mike,
(sigh)
I, too, been thinking about WBTB for years.
Many people have.
And many people have not, yet still bet their lives on it.
And many people have, then bet their lives on it.
And many people rethink it quite a few times and in different ways each time during the crossroads in their lives, and even change their wager.
And many even consider other people's scriptures in their calculations.
And many do not even include the Bible, yet still ask the same kind of "why" of something else, and some even bet their lives on it.
I know you may deny this, but other people have thought through WBTB without having ever heard of PFAL.
And yes, some people were aided in thinking through WBTB because of having learned PFAL.
I myself am not done thinking about WBTB.
I don't wanna be done thinking about it.
And I feel no need to bet my life right now.
My true life is not at stake over my WBTB.
Ya know, the whole lie in Eden seems based on false risk expressed with a reverse psychology of sorts. And this subtlety is still written in the double-helix of most religions, which, to me, includes PFAL as a small but potent mutant strain of grand ole' protestant Christianity.
I do not believe that VPs gamble ("I would rather be wrong and live like it was true, than live like it was not true and be right," (or however the heck he put it)) defines the only two games in town.
And this stuff is wearing me out too:
Neither the order nor the pace in which you learned the various lessons of your life matches ANYONE else's divine curriculum. Get it?
No more schoolmaster.
Only two laws worth betting your life on.
At least I'm thinking about it?
Indeed.
Many of "us" are.
Forget it.
This is a yawnathon.
I am logging out and quitting acronyms cold turkey.
I hope to see you in Bizarro World soon.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Because it's a DODGE, Mike. You're not asking because you want an answer. You're asking because you want to draw attention away from your own thesis. It's clever, but it's a dodge. I doubt your sincerity.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JesseJoe
Mike, why would I want to make a truce with you?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Ginger,
Ginger, you are so far off the mark here that it is rediculous. Either that or you are attempting attribute a view upon me that I do not esposue. It was Todd that called my repsonse to Mike evil. I never in any way referred to Todd or agnostism as being evil. Never. I don't know what you were reading, but is was not my post. You should be more careful or more honest. I do not appreciate being misrepresented -if that is the case.
Agnostism is an admitted unknowing. I actually have much more respect for that than for someone like Mike. My first (errant) response to Todd was about prospectives. My point, though errantly aimed, was that what is "evil" to an evangleical, scripture-believing Christian would certainly be different than what evil is to is to an agnostic. The Christian would define evil in the context of scripture, while the agnostic would define evil in a humanistic or secular way.
I suggest you go back and read again and try reading what I actually wrote.
Goey
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry P2
I am sure there must be some Iraqis who long to have Saddam restored to power.....
Mike reminds me of such deluded souls.
Here's a new interepretation of TWI history: When the nasty Nazi bible thug who terrorized everyone into submission FINALLY mercifully assumed room temperature, everyone was free to leave.
And so they did.
And the Nasty Mini-Me Dance Boy thug who tooks his place only succeeded in madly accelerating the exodus.
Doesn't this make more sense than arguing that nobody parsed PFAL and understood it the way that MR. Weirwille wished for it to be understood as the reason for TWI's downfall? Just cuz we didn't kick over the gravestones and desecrate the Fountain of Dead A$$HOLES doesn't mean that people weren't extremely relieved at the death of Mr. Weirwille. According to a lot of accounts I've read, the TWI leadership actually exhibited a lot of relief at FINALLY having the foot of a cruel, despotic tyrant lifted off their necks.
Only Mike thinks such a horrible thug is a wonderful idea!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve Lortz
Todd - I want to address a few things you brought up in response to my post about the absence of a dichotomy of natural/spiritual realms in the Word of God.
I didn't write that Pythagoras *invented* the dichotomy, I just said he introduced it into western thinking. Ol' Pyth probably got it from the Egyptians, along with his geometry. The dichotomy of realms view also seems to have been pretty dominant in the region of India for a long time.
Swedenborg reintroduced the idea to western thinking in the mid-1700s, but he did it with a "Christian" spin. Some of the spiritualists, like Madam Blavatsky started importing the Hindu variety in the late-1800s, early-1900s. It seems the Hindu variety achieved a certain prominence in popular culture with the Beatles. Maybe that helped prepare the ground for PFAL's attraction to hippie-types in the early '70s.
You asked about apparent references to the dichotomy of natural/spiritual realms in the last part of I Corinthians 15. I take it you mean verses 35 through 50 of that chapter.
The first thing to notice is that the word "realm" (or "kingdom") doesn't occur anywhere in the section. The context is set in verse 35, "with what body do they [the resurrected] come?". The contrasts here are not regarding two different "realms", they are regarding different (not necessarily just two) types of "bodies".
Verses 36-38 compare death and resurrection to the planting of a seed, and the resultant eventual springing forth of a plant from that seed. In our social system, we recognize the continuity of life between the acorn and the oak, but they didn't necessarily recognize that continuity in first century society. We have to view this through *their* understanding.
The point Paul is making in 36-38 is that plants, which have one kind of body, come from seeds, which have a different kind of body. When the dead are resurrected, they won't have the same type of body they had before they died (so don't worry about being a "night of the living dead" zombie).
In verse 39 Paul contrasts different types of flesh; human, animal, fish, bird.
In verses 40 he contrasts earthly bodies with heavenly bodies, and then in verse 41 Paul contrasts the differing "glories" of different heavenly bodies. He lists them; sun, moon and stars.
Literally speaking, the heavens are what you see when you go outside and look up. The ancients believed that the sun, moon and stars were gods, so the word "heavens" took on a figurative meaning of "where the gods dwell". The Word of God often uses "heaven" in a figurative sense to indicate the place where God lives. It is not literally in a different realm or cosmos.
Plato wrote about a dichotomy between an imperfect sensible realm and a realm of perfect, insensible forms or ideas. When people interpreted the Word of God through Platonist intellectual-filters, they associated Plato's imperfect, sensible realm with the earth, and his perfect realm of ideas with the scriptural "heavens". This is an imperfect... as Mike might say, "5-senses"... association.
Taking a break.
Love,
Steve
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Larry,
It's not thugery I'm interested in. Not at all. When I saw Corpsmen imitating Dr's temper and mannerisms I could puke. I saw THAT thugery a lot. Even in some women. Terrible imitations they all were. Dr had earned my respect, but the Corps demanded it. I see those same traits in some here; it?s very human.
So how many now have the knee jerk reaction to that by saying ?VPW trained those Corps to behave that way.? To which, I respond ?Since it?s ALL a matter of training, then who trained VPW? Why not track him or them down? Why is it that the buck stops with Dr? Is it just that he?s a more convenient target?
This thread?s aim is to remind and enrich our understanding of the differences between the physical realm and the spiritual realm. If there was EVER a time or topic to apply this verse, this is it:
?For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.?
One of the adversary?s greatest tricks is to get people focused on flesh, thinking that is their enemy. Not only does this error fuel fire for feuds for generations, it also drives all the law oriented religions with pressures, and all the license religions with pleasures.
The flesh is not where we find our TRUE enemies, just victims. This flesh enemy distraction allows the adversary to operate unobstructed behind the scenes. By focusing mental energy on the flesh, we remain weak and unable to counter him. Five senses wise, he?s smarter than spiritually unassisted humans. To be spiritually smart we need to focus on God, His, Word, and His Son, not who?s a thug or not. THAT?s a great way to become a thug yourself, by thinking about it a lot.
Besides tricking us to focus on flesh, and even better ploy of the adversary is to get us to fight each other?s flesh.
There are better things to focus on and become.
Christ Jesus for one.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
let's say, mike, i might try to believe the bible again someday
why is looking down on wierwille focusing on the flesh ?
why are you so sure about this ? i mean what about parts in the bible where we are warned to beware of false prophets, teachers, etc.
***
in any case, i don't have the desire to get heavily into this
but i did want to tell you, that he earned my disrespect, just as he earned your respect
ps. steve, even now my son thinks of god being in the sky. in fact i think i do too
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Larry P2
No, it's not because he is a more convenient target (although he was a very large and inviting target who bled profusely when struck). It's because he first invented and then ruled with unquestioned authority a nasty cult that is the central subject of this site. He demanded and recieved nothing less than complete, unquestioned devotion from his glassy-eyed followers.
And who said Mr. Weirwille was "trained?" When I read about the reluctant actions his desparing overseers in the church where he was briefly employed were forced to take, I see nothing that indicated Mr. Weirwille was "trainable." The man was obviously an meglomaniac, ambitious, scheming, ruthless tyrant from the get go.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
and while we're focusing on Christ Jesus for one, to speak for God / Christ and live for / be like him..... should be very much about walking in love
walking in love is equated with walking in truth
the two i think are so intertwined as not to be separated
which leaves victhedick out of the equation
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.