Tom: Remember that there are but four kings and seven stacks in the regulation game of solitaire. If you do not have a king- or queen-headed run on the board, trying to open a stack may be less than optimal, considering the rightmost stacks have more cards that must be turned over. Try using a right-to-left rule for a while instead of a left-to-right rule and see if that doesn't alter the odds somewhat.
God bless!
Zix
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
I forgot that you had posted all that. And since it was on another page, I did not go back to look. - I seldom do. Had I recalled that all that was there, I certainly would have gone back and used it. Now, I have it copied to file for future reference. Thanks.
You posted:
quote:I just object to you saying you only had
Rafael's post to draw from, when I spent all
that time typing in my previous post.
But, I (mildy) object to your obejction. See, I did not say that I "only" had Rafael's post to draw from. I just simply said that I would use Rafael's quotes for lack of a PFAL book. But also know that I do appreciate all the fine work you do here.
Know where I can get a PFAL book for cheap?
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
I never said I?d throw you away over grammar and punctuation. And I don?t think I ever mentioned spelling.
I?ll say it again, in a different way.
If I?m tired from various daily labors, or if I?m distracted by many other posts here, then I may miss important things that pop up in you posts that I can respond to. If it takes extra work to read your posts, then they stand more of a chance to get lost in the shuffle.
I tend to miss more of what you write, if your posts give me a headache (or a heartache), so I?m telling you how to increase the efficiency of your communications transmissions to me. Because I knew you in a somewhat more positive setting a few years ago, before our rounds here at GS, I feel that we should be communicating BETTER than I do with others here. Instead we are communicating worse. This baffles me because I thought we had some good e-mails last year.
Please, instead of trying to beat me up, just lay a few clear, proof-read thoughts out at a time. I?m very inclined to give you higher priority in post responses than some others here, because I genuinely cared about you, and then you just disappeared on me. Look at the unanswered posts above me here. I sometimes get a whooping daily assignment of posts to respond to here at GS. If this was an English composition course, it would be considered a very rigorous course indeed to require this many pages of text per week. I?ll be looking forward to having the time to outwit the limited scenarios, dares, and challenges that are printed above.
Mj412, who?s post should I respond to next? I?m off to work right now, but maybe tonight I?ll have time to give one or two IN DEPTH ANALYSIS responses. Let?s see how much is wagered on this one.
***
You wrote: ?Ok Mike BUT the bible is no longer your standard because it is a mere translation of a man.?
It?s the KJV and other versions that I see as much weaker on the list of priorities to study.
I see KJV verses and promises WITHIN the PFAL books and see them as totally sufficient for my life.
My standard is what is in print in the PFAL writings.
let's all say, "good-bye, Mike"! Then we can debate other thought provoking ubiquitously hidden messages. Take Tom Stranges' posts....I think he is trying to relay some kind of message to us..see the way he uses humor to explain the psycho/spiritual dichotomy? You just have to get that one...
"...Mike holds to his POV even when it's obvious that vpw taught the opposite, and, according to Mike, it's vpw's writings that are the greatest way to understand what God said.
"I mentioned this in passing, but I didn't think about the implications of it until Steve mentioned it as well.
"Mike does not know the content of the Bible, and Mike does not know the contents of vpw's books. Personally, I'm curious if he even has a copy of them at present, or if he's relying on his memory of what he thinks the pfal books said."
*****
I have no doubt that Mike has copies of the PFAL books, or that he reads them religiously. His problem is not one of faulty memory.
On June 11, 2003, 14:46, about half way down page 21 of this thread, I wrote,
*****
"I am really beginning to like *you*, Mike. I just don't care for the spiritual company you are presently keeping. Not only do the meanings of the words they feed you contradict what God had written in His Word, they also contradict the meanings of the words Wierwille actually wrote in PFAL."
*****
To which Mike replied,
*****
"Steve,
"It's my contention that 'the meanings of the words ...written in His Word' have eluded our exact awareness, due to the fact that 'the meanings of the words Wierwille actually wrote in PFAL' have not been carefully mastered.
"We just don't KNOW exactly what Wierwille wrote because so much has slipped past us, so much has leaked out, and so much other stuff has been allowed in.
"The prupose [sic] of this thread is to raise the level of awareness to Dr's specialized vocabulary SO THAT we can finally see what God taught him by various sense knowledge methods and spiritual revelation, and that he taught us in written form."
*****
According to Mike, the meanings of the words Wierwille actually wrote in PFAL have not been "carefully mastered". We know from Mike's posts in other places that his method for "mastering" PFAL is to read the books over and over again, mindlessly ("anoetos" = "foolish" in Galatians 3:1) considering every word to be God-breathed. He switches off his critical faculties and listens for "God" to whisper "spiritual understandings" to him by way of the "advanced Christ formed within" spirit that Mike has allowed to lodge in his hair.
Mike has been so schooled to revere the knowledge that comes to him by way of his "advanced Christ formed within" spirit that he no longer has ANY confidence in his God-given ability to perceive accurately, or to reason accurately from his perceptions.
He looks at the words actually written in the PFAL books, but he doesn't see them. He sees the meanings fed to him by the "advanced Christ formed within" spirit. Seeing, he does not see. Hearing, he does not hear.
It isn't a matter of a "decoding ring", it is a matter of a deceiving spirit. And it's purpose here is to trick as many other people as possible into falling into the same snare Mike is held by.
this is the type of posts you write that blow my mind.
you manipulate and suggest lies as out right truths to make people wonder what the hell you are talking about.
your whole scene of do I know you? did we meet?
and more to come, later, is not working mikey it is quite the freakish thing to take the focus off you in such a way.
It is very very clear what you do Mike and your fooling no one here.
you try to take the focus off the discussion and make it about some lie on a personal level that is a secret only to you and the other poster .that is why you wnat private conversations with the other posters when you think you have a chance to manipulate .
it makes people wonder the integrity of the other poster when you state lies like you know them from some secret place no one eles knows.
you freak you do not even know me and that was the most pathetic attempt at getting sympathy from others i have ever heard, poor wounded Mike @ mj412 have a history and he is wounded lets get in on the sorrid story and take the focus off the fact you are unable to compete like a normal human would.
the plan isnt working I am still here you do not frighten me so much I will leave , it is just part of your sick need to control and whine and get attention.
I noticed that your post referred to your previous post on page 33 of this thread, so it is with the earlier that I begin. There you posted page 29 of BTMS. On it is a SIMPLY STATED version of the law of believing, one that leaves out of its abbreviated form the vital role God?s promises MUST play in operating this law. This I pointed out, but I forgot to mention that in addition to this being an admittedly short version, but page 29 is also the INTRODUCTION to Part II of the book. In other words, this abbreviated version of the law appears in an abbreviated outline of the several chapters in Part II.
*********
Again, in that earlier post you quoted Dr thusly:
"What we believe for, we get."
"Our lives are molded by our believing-both by
positive and negative believing."
"What we believe equals what we are."
"What one believes in the depth of his soul
absolutely appears in his life."
"You bring to yourself whatever you believe."
"The law of believing works equally effectively
for both sinner and saint"
"The picture that you carry of yourself with
clearness and concern is what you are. This law
works for positive and negative thinking alike."
"As you change your thinking, you will draw a
mental pattern for the things you DO want in
your life, which in turn will dispel and root
out those things you do not want."
We could go to the gospels, as JerryB mentioned, and see that Jesus taught similarly. On some occasions he emphasized the power aspect of believing, but he also emphasized the great need for man to get his sights and desires on the things God thinks are important. In one passage we read the we can believe for anything, in another we read that we should line up our desires with the Word.
The quotes you isolated are good in their context, like the books have them.
The same quotes, isolated from their books? contexts are the seeds of TVT?s poison.
( TVT = Twi?s Cerbal Tradition )
****
As you saw, the requirements to receive
involve BELIEVING, and focusing your believing.
At no point is a REQUIREMENT made for your
believing being believing a promise of God.
It was believing and your mental focus and
picture that determine success or failure to
receive. At NO point is it said that if you
believe, but what you believe is NOT what God
promises, you won't get it no matter how much
you believe it.
The context of the words you refer to is Chapter One of BTMS, titled ?Release Form Your Prisons? and so the context of the focus is an uncontestable promise of God. If we took the same words and applied them to a cherry red convertable, we might have some problems.
BTW, the Foundational class syllabus (which you
got when you took the Advanced class) mentions
a few of these things, and says:
"What you fear, you will receive-it is a law."
Again, a syllabus, even the expanded syllabus, is an abbreviation. Plus ?Believing Equals Receiving? RHYMES, so it has that extra punch that helps it be remembered. But other things need to be remembered too, like keep God central to all this, and keep our mind?s desired disciplined to what God wants.
Shazdancer brought up the red drapes. I don't
know if it's in the books, but we ALL remember
the "fire-engine red" curtains mentioned in
the PFAL class.
Shazdancer said
"are red drapes a promise of God?"
I was surprised to see that they were not in the book. It was this that I mentioned, not much more.
In the film class, we must remember that part of the story was that Dr says he hadn?t gone that far spiritually, and that she must have had a need for red. She wasn?t believing a Red Curtains promise, she was believing God would meet that need, but Dr never explains WHY it was a need.
No, red drapes are not a promise of God.
****
Another promise in the Epistle of I John! Way in the back of your Bible! I John! The Epistle of I John! First! Second! Third John!
I John 5:14: And this is the confidence [this is the confidence] that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, [if we ask any thing according to his will] he heareth us:
Isn't that wonderful? If we have our need and our want parallel we ask anything according to His will; how can it be His Will if we don't know His Word? His Word is His Will that gets our need and our want parallel. If we know His Word we can parallel it off. And once we get our need and want parallel, whatsoever we ask, we get.
Many years ago when I was first questing in the integrity and accuracy of God's Word and doing Biblical research, just starting in the field, there were some things in the Word of God that we believed and that we understood and were practicing in our prayer life. And we were really concerned about learning more about God's Word.
We had a letter from one of our radio audience from Cincinnati. And this good lady stipulated in that letter stating the following: she said, "now on Thursday night when you have your prayer group meeting and you meet with your people; I'd like for you to pray for an apartment for me. Because I have to find this apartment and I would like for this apartment to be within walking distance, two or three blocks from where I am employed." And she said, "It has to be a furnished apartment because I do not have my own furniture," and she said, "while your praying for this apartment within this area of where I am gainfully employed will you please ask God that in this furnished apartment there will be red drapes on the living room windows."
My, oh my. That shook me. I thought to myself well good lord, if I'm going to pray for her for an apartment and she gets that apartment she ought to be thankful. What difference does if make if its got pink drapes or yellow drapes or orange drapes on the living room window? But she had stipulated in her letter please pray that there be red drapes on the window.
Well I don't know who did the believing, I helped in the praying but I want to tell you something that night spiritually I hadn't gone this far; I believed for the apartment this I could believe for, it was a need I understood this. So I believed that she'd have an apartment but I can't imagine and I know that I did not believe anything about drapes at all.
But we prayed that evening and within fifteen minutes of the time when we had prayed for this situation this lady in Cincinnati many, many, many miles away had a telephone call from an entire stranger who said to her "a friend of yours told me that you have need of an apartment, is this right?" And she said, "yes." And she said, "well where's it located?" He said, "well such and such a place." Within two blocks of where she was employed. So she said to him, "May I come and see it in the morning?" He said, "You certainly may."
They made an appointment. She went next morning and looked at this apartment. And when she walked into the living room what do you think the color of those drapes were on those living room windows? Green, oh no they weren't. They were fire engine red. That's right.
People, she must have had her need and her want parallel. Look at this. All right! She rented a furnished apartment and it had to have drapes on the window, right? Does it make God any difference whether the drapes are green or red or pink? No, but she had a need, that need was that they might as well have red drapes on, that's what she wanted. She got her need and her want parallel. She not only got that apartment but she got the red drapes on the windows.
You talk about the accuracy of God's Word when He said He'll supply all of our need according to His riches in glory. Doesn't say He'll supply our greed but He'll supply our need according to His riches in glory. That's true. It's wonderful.
***
As VPW taught it, believing IN AND OF ITSELF
appropriated results, REGARDLESS OF THE CONTENT
OF WHAT IS BELIEVED.
This is not true. In many places Dr mentioned that the promise of God was mandatory.
Suppose I found TWO. Would that satisfy you?
How about if I found three?
****
You then quoted the page 29 passage again, and here I?ll raise the ?simply stated? part to ALL-CAPS.
"The law, SIMPLY STATED, is that what we believe
for or expect, we get. This applies in every
realm: physical, mental, material, spiritual."
So, remember this is an abbreviated version.
***
To your: ?We just SAW "numerous" references.? I again mention that they all were taken out of contexts. It was in the contexts that the limits of the law of believing were taught.
***
BTW, Mike,
don't pretend I said vpw said God's promises
are irrelevant, or that we shouldn't believe
God. He did say we should believe God, and to
believe His promises.
What I AM saying is that as vpw taught it in
pfal, the CONTENT of what is believed is
incidental to appropriate it.
NO! What you are saying that AS YOU seclude yourself in the abbreviated versions the content of what is believed is incidental. AS Dr taught it, in it?s full versions, the promise of God is MANDATORY.
***
Now we finally come to your more recent post, the one I promised mj412 I?d deal with.
?Ok, Mike's understanding of 'law' doesn't seem to be
that far from what vpw was saying. (As originally
cited a page or so back.)?
Because I haven?t thoroughly studied Dr?s use of ?law? I?m not in a good position to comment further... yet. I have however, noted some other more ?exotic? laws pop up here and there in PFAL.
***
?I'd like to point out, however, that Mike has freely
admitted he doesn't know what vpw said about "laws".?
Gads! Are you desperate for points in this debate, or WHAT?!
What I mean is that I?ve not studied it as much as I?d like to before posting on it. I was being honest, and you penalize me?
****
What vpw said about "laws" was all over Session I,
the Blue Book, and the Orange Book!
(See previous citations from same about a page back
if you don't have yours in front of you.)
Some time ago, I cited the first Session of pfal,
"The Greatest Secret in the World Today", and how
its main points contradicted his main thesis.
Did you notice or mention that in the film class there are two mentions of two ?greatest secrets? but one got edited out of the book? I noticed this in the 70?s and often pondered the common points that these two greatest secrets had.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, if Jesus Christ came that we might life and have it more abundantly; he either told the truth or he lied. If he lied to us here in the Word of God when he declared that he came that we might have life and have it more abundantly, if he lied to us, then the best thing you and I could to do is just chuck the whole thing. Throw it all away. But if he told the truth, if he meant what he said and said what he meant when he declared that he came that we might have life and have it more than abundantly, ladies and gentlemen, somewhere, someplace, somehow, surely there must be keys, there must be signposts that will guide us into the understanding and the receiving of this life which is more than abundant. And I believe that this class on Power For Abundant Living, that this class is one of the stepping stones to make available this to people.
And this which Jesus Christ did and came to do, this is the greatest secret in the world today; the greatest secret in the world today. And this great secret is what we want to declare and make known. A secret is like a mystery--sometimes like a woman's purse, what she has in it--it's a mystery. Once you open it, once you see what's in it, then it's no longer a mystery.
The greatest secret in the world today is that Jesus Christ did come to make life more than abundantly available to believers. And this is the purpose of this Biblical research class: to enable our people, our children, our young people and our adults to tap into these resources that they can manifest this more abundant life.
This is a class on keys. I am not going to teach you the scriptures, every verse from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. This is not the purpose of the class. But, by God's mercy and by God's grace I expect to set before you all the basic keys in the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation which will unfold for you this life that Jesus Christ came to make available which is a life which is more that abundant.
This is why these keys in this class should bring us to the place that we will be certain in the midst of the uncertainty of our time. This Word of God and the greatness of God's revelation should be unto us a firm rock in the sea of speculation with which we're surrounded on every hand. And I want this class on Power For Abundant Living to be for you a safe anchorage in the ocean of doubt with which we are surrounded. And today certainly there is so much doubt and so much un-safeness, unconcern, that if we can come back to the keys of the Word of God and set these keys that you can utilize them with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision, then once again you can begin walking and you can begin to manifest that more abundant life.
This first lesson, the first lesson in this first session of this class on Power For Abundant Living deals with the greatest secret in the world today. And do you know that this greatest secret in the world today literally is: that the Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God. The greatest secret in the world today, anyplace, anywhere, is that the Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God because people for the most part just do not believe it. Even those who are deeply spiritual, they'll take one segment out of the Word of God and drop another. Ladies and gentlemen either the Bible's the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation all the way through or it's not the Word of God anywhere. And the greatest secret in the world today is that the Bible, the Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God. That's the great secret.
You know, I'd like to state it another way: that the Word of God is the Will of God. This is our power for abundant living. It's like it's up here above this chart board and you'll see it hundreds of times through the teaching of this class. The Word of God is the Will of God--the Word of God being the Will of God--that's the greatest secret in the world today!
Now to get to the depth of this and to start into its depth I'd like for you to take your Bibles and turn to the Book of Jeremiah. The book of Jeremiah! In the Old Testament: Psalms! Proverbs! Ecclesiastes! Song of Solomon! Isaiah! Jeremiah! And there in chapter 2 in verse 13 of this chapter listen to what this Word of God says:
Jeremiah 2:13: For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
Who is God talking to? He says, "My people." He's talking to His people. He's not talking to people who are on the outside of the pale. He's talking to those who are within the fold so to speak.
?A page ago, Mike utterly mangled the story of Elijah,
whose name he couldn't even get close to remembering.
(He didn't even confuse him with Elisha, which would be
understandable.) This is especially strange, since vpw
taught on Elijah. This is partially understandable, since
Mike has proudly proclaimed the inferiority of the Bible,
and, as such, might well not have opened the book for years.
So, what does this tell us??
I?d say this tells us you are again desperate to find something to criticize me on. I tried to cover both spellings in one name, along with the appropriate international sign of (sp?) which in every language means ?You?re not important enough for me to bother looking this up or using a spell checker, even though I know I got it wrong.?
Sorry, next time I?ll look it up.
****
So, when we quote PAGE AFTER PAGE of material that vpw
wrote, it becomes obvious what vpw said. We looked at
several pages of vpw's writings a few pages back, more than
once. These quotes were diametrically opposed to what vpw
said. (They said the OPPOSITE what Mike SAID they said.)
It looks like I could say the exact same thing of you. I too havce posted page after page of obvious things. The only difference is I have been closely examining these pages for 5 years, and you?ve been doing it RECENTLY far less. I?m glad to see you all getting your books out and re-acquiring them as needed. And they ARE needed.
?Mike's response was NOT to amend his thinking to match the
pfal materials...?
NOPE! My response was NOT to amend my thinking to match your recent appraisals of the pfal materials...? I KNOW what I responded to.
***
?... (which would be internally-consistent to
Mike's STATED theology). Mike's response was ALSO not to
cite another place in the same books, trying to refute
the previous quotes. What was Mike's response??
Talk about citing page after page, I can do that too.
Sometimes when pressed on this I cite Green page 34 and page 116.
Page 34 says ?...every word i have written to you is true.
Page 116 says ?...if you think this is just Victor Paul Wierwille writing or speaking to you, you will never receive. If you know that what I am saying to you are words which the Holy Ghost has spoken and is speaking to you by me, then you too will manifest the greatness of the power of God.?
Just for the book ownerless, here they are in full form with my ALL-CAPS:
?Well, way back when I cited Session One originally, Mike's
response was to pretend I didn't, and hope the points would
go away if he never acknowledged them.?
Wait a dog gone minute! How do you know your citations weren?t buried in the threads before I could get to it? Paste it in again if you think it?s important. I loose track of many posts here, but I try not to. I still have to track down Thomas Heller?s from last month. I lost it too.
********
Mike does not know the contents of the Bible, and Mike does
not know the contents of vpw's books. Personally, I'm
curious if he even has a copy of them at present, or if he's
relying on his memory of what he thinks the pfal books said.
Mike's theology is in no way based on the Bible.
Mike's theology is in no way based on vpw's pfal books.
This has been pointed out, in parts, many times. At the
moment, we can see that we probably grossly
misunderestimated the degree to which Mike is ignorant of
the contents of the books upon which he claims to base his
theology.
Are you really? Again I sense the air of a desperate man? I really see little need to comment on this. I just want to get a good grade on this composition.
Rafael, I figured you'd appreciate that. I really think the whole issue speaks first and foremost to the honesty of the person doing the writing. It's rampant in music on all sorts of levels. The Rolling Stones would be pumping gas if not for a few artist's whose music they absorbed, Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, Jimmy Reed, some others.
Now all these years later, they have their own "sound" but they clearly and consistently recognize and point others to the "originals" that influenced them so strongly. They obviously feel their music is their own but anyone who knows American music knows the bucket they carry their tunes around in was made by others. It would be laughable to claim it's cut from cloth of their own making.
When we get to talking religion though all bets are off, every person who blows their nose with a bible can say their guided by the very hand of God and they're usually doing it while they're selling you brand spankin' "new" bible hankies for cold, hard cash. And that's the rub. It's all about money. Here's a guy who says he's got the very promise of God that if he'll teach it, God'll teach him bible like nobody's business, and what's he do?
He sells it.
'when you're in love, there's no time and no space. there's a permanent smile on your face...
and hey somewhere, you threw your fear in the sea of no cares...'
I want to thank you for fleshing out, and straightening out my paraphrase of the George Harrison situation.
I like your music analogy. To a degree it fits with God's family as opposed to the marketplace or academia. In a way it?s the Stones greatness that gives them a pass, just like George Harrison.
I see two other analogies, where origination credit or ownership are thrown to the wind. They are war and sports.
A team effort does not make a big deal of individual contributions. If some techniques or munitions are needed by other team members, the originator or owner is not such a valid concept to consider deeply in the heat of battle. Thus it was in the family of God attempting to live behind enemy lines.
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Yanagisawa
Did you say "get the ball rolling" or get the kaballa rolling...for it sounds like that's your current freak - some sort of hidden, mystical kaballa-esque gnostic esotericism. I'm fascinated with you
mj412
tom
that is a little off the topic.
um seriously what the was the topic?
ooh yes mstering and believing ,
well now the worlds wide open on this now isnt it?
I refused to master my believing that is why I was M@A .
lol haha
I thought it was about stealing other people work there for a minute, my bad, no wait, was it about the secret language of vpw as well??
o now I remember it is about Mikes responsibility to me that he threw away! that was the M@A part right?
because I spell words wrong and he knows I can do it right!
but I didnt so he threw his responsibility to me away .
I am not getting over this I am hurt.
I think I need a forum .
Did we also have to find something hidden in one of vpw teaching?
o and was their some kind of illnes going around on this thread or a virus or something a tvt they called it?
this is so complicated I hope I stayed on topic.
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Tom Strange
mj... I thought it was about "mastering" and I just know that Mike will have a theory...
(at least that's what the voices said)
I looked behind the curtain and saw that it was bad
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mj412
yes tom thank you for my reproof, I am still working on becoming meek to the word. that was the other issue in the M@A conversation. I remember now.
mastering aa mastering , ok I am a little afraid of what happened to Mike with all that mastering.
true tho, how do we master?
Mike has been doing the mastering for how many years? (it varies on how much of a bully he is per post ya know anywhere from thirty to five.)
but he has not mastered it yet.
I want the expert on mastering not the one who is still trying...
My Master has a name not so common His name is Jesus Christ.
I will ask Him.
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Zixar
Tom: Remember that there are but four kings and seven stacks in the regulation game of solitaire. If you do not have a king- or queen-headed run on the board, trying to open a stack may be less than optimal, considering the rightmost stacks have more cards that must be turned over. Try using a right-to-left rule for a while instead of a left-to-right rule and see if that doesn't alter the odds somewhat.
God bless!
Zix
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
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Tom Strange
Meester6r: thanks for the tip! is this something you've mastered?
and thanks for throwing a theory out there that Mike can refute!
May the blessings of teeck junior arrive on your doorstep...
...big hitter the lama...
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Goey
Wordwolf,
I forgot that you had posted all that. And since it was on another page, I did not go back to look. - I seldom do. Had I recalled that all that was there, I certainly would have gone back and used it. Now, I have it copied to file for future reference. Thanks.
You posted:
But, I (mildy) object to your obejction. See, I did not say that I "only" had Rafael's post to draw from. I just simply said that I would use Rafael's quotes for lack of a PFAL book. But also know that I do appreciate all the fine work you do here.
Know where I can get a PFAL book for cheap?
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Pirate1974
Goey,
If you find any pfal books for sale, let Mike know. I don't think he's ever read them.
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Zixar
Goey: Email me about that PFAL book, and I'll see what I can do.
;)-->
Zix
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
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Mike
mj412,
I never said I?d throw you away over grammar and punctuation. And I don?t think I ever mentioned spelling.
I?ll say it again, in a different way.
If I?m tired from various daily labors, or if I?m distracted by many other posts here, then I may miss important things that pop up in you posts that I can respond to. If it takes extra work to read your posts, then they stand more of a chance to get lost in the shuffle.
I tend to miss more of what you write, if your posts give me a headache (or a heartache), so I?m telling you how to increase the efficiency of your communications transmissions to me. Because I knew you in a somewhat more positive setting a few years ago, before our rounds here at GS, I feel that we should be communicating BETTER than I do with others here. Instead we are communicating worse. This baffles me because I thought we had some good e-mails last year.
Please, instead of trying to beat me up, just lay a few clear, proof-read thoughts out at a time. I?m very inclined to give you higher priority in post responses than some others here, because I genuinely cared about you, and then you just disappeared on me. Look at the unanswered posts above me here. I sometimes get a whooping daily assignment of posts to respond to here at GS. If this was an English composition course, it would be considered a very rigorous course indeed to require this many pages of text per week. I?ll be looking forward to having the time to outwit the limited scenarios, dares, and challenges that are printed above.
Mj412, who?s post should I respond to next? I?m off to work right now, but maybe tonight I?ll have time to give one or two IN DEPTH ANALYSIS responses. Let?s see how much is wagered on this one.
***
You wrote: ?Ok Mike BUT the bible is no longer your standard because it is a mere translation of a man.?
It?s the KJV and other versions that I see as much weaker on the list of priorities to study.
I see KJV verses and promises WITHIN the PFAL books and see them as totally sufficient for my life.
My standard is what is in print in the PFAL writings.
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mj412
WORDWOLF !!!!
I think I won the bet. lol
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Mike
Thanks!
You HAD to give me the biggest?
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Tom Strange
Mike... what about my solitaire question? Surely, you have some theories...
Did you remember to take your meds?
Just looking out for you bro!
...big hitter the lama...
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WordWolf
MJ,
too soon to tell.
I think "A" is unlikely.
Could be "B" or "C".
(Or the longshot "A".)
------------------------------
Aw, Goey, I was hoping you'd
post a 'recap'.
At least you've got them
handy. Please fix the typos
when posting.
I would have, but I didn't review that many
pages when posting. I would have edited them
when I realized, but I wanted to avoid
accusations I might have made major editing
changes. They would have been without merit,
but or resident student of misdirection might
have capitalized on any chance to distract.
*skims the above posts*
Oooh! He's going to "outwit" me! You heard it
here first, folks...
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def59
Ok Mike BUT the bible is no longer your standard because it is a mere translation of a man.?
It is the KJV and other versions that I see as much weaker on the list of priorities to study.
I see KJV verses and promises WITHIN the PFAL books and see them as totally sufficient for my life.
My standard is what is in print in the PFAL writings.
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def59
Ok Mike BUT the bible is no longer your standard because it is a mere translation of a man.?ÿö
It is the KJV and other versions that I see as much weaker on the list of priorities to study.
I see KJV verses and promises WITHIN the PFAL books and see them as totally sufficient for my life.
My standard is what is in print in the PFAL writings.
Welcome to the Mormon Church Mike, they already have special book that holds priority over Scripture.
It is pointless now to discuss this issue further since you have shown your apostasy for all to see.
Good-bye Mike.
f
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karmicdebt
let's all say, "good-bye, Mike"! Then we can debate other thought provoking ubiquitously hidden messages. Take Tom Stranges' posts....I think he is trying to relay some kind of message to us..see the way he uses humor to explain the psycho/spiritual dichotomy? You just have to get that one...
Good-bye, Mike!
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Tom Strange
loved your show karmic... but that was an awfully small spaceship you had...
...big hitter the lama...
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Steve Lortz
WordWolf - You wrote,
*****
"...Mike holds to his POV even when it's obvious that vpw taught the opposite, and, according to Mike, it's vpw's writings that are the greatest way to understand what God said.
"I mentioned this in passing, but I didn't think about the implications of it until Steve mentioned it as well.
"Mike does not know the content of the Bible, and Mike does not know the contents of vpw's books. Personally, I'm curious if he even has a copy of them at present, or if he's relying on his memory of what he thinks the pfal books said."
*****
I have no doubt that Mike has copies of the PFAL books, or that he reads them religiously. His problem is not one of faulty memory.
On June 11, 2003, 14:46, about half way down page 21 of this thread, I wrote,
*****
"I am really beginning to like *you*, Mike. I just don't care for the spiritual company you are presently keeping. Not only do the meanings of the words they feed you contradict what God had written in His Word, they also contradict the meanings of the words Wierwille actually wrote in PFAL."
*****
To which Mike replied,
*****
"Steve,
"It's my contention that 'the meanings of the words ...written in His Word' have eluded our exact awareness, due to the fact that 'the meanings of the words Wierwille actually wrote in PFAL' have not been carefully mastered.
"We just don't KNOW exactly what Wierwille wrote because so much has slipped past us, so much has leaked out, and so much other stuff has been allowed in.
"The prupose [sic] of this thread is to raise the level of awareness to Dr's specialized vocabulary SO THAT we can finally see what God taught him by various sense knowledge methods and spiritual revelation, and that he taught us in written form."
*****
According to Mike, the meanings of the words Wierwille actually wrote in PFAL have not been "carefully mastered". We know from Mike's posts in other places that his method for "mastering" PFAL is to read the books over and over again, mindlessly ("anoetos" = "foolish" in Galatians 3:1) considering every word to be God-breathed. He switches off his critical faculties and listens for "God" to whisper "spiritual understandings" to him by way of the "advanced Christ formed within" spirit that Mike has allowed to lodge in his hair.
Mike has been so schooled to revere the knowledge that comes to him by way of his "advanced Christ formed within" spirit that he no longer has ANY confidence in his God-given ability to perceive accurately, or to reason accurately from his perceptions.
He looks at the words actually written in the PFAL books, but he doesn't see them. He sees the meanings fed to him by the "advanced Christ formed within" spirit. Seeing, he does not see. Hearing, he does not hear.
It isn't a matter of a "decoding ring", it is a matter of a deceiving spirit. And it's purpose here is to trick as many other people as possible into falling into the same snare Mike is held by.
Love,
Steve
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mj412
Mike you never knew me .
this is the type of posts you write that blow my mind.
you manipulate and suggest lies as out right truths to make people wonder what the hell you are talking about.
your whole scene of do I know you? did we meet?
and more to come, later, is not working mikey it is quite the freakish thing to take the focus off you in such a way.
It is very very clear what you do Mike and your fooling no one here.
you try to take the focus off the discussion and make it about some lie on a personal level that is a secret only to you and the other poster .that is why you wnat private conversations with the other posters when you think you have a chance to manipulate .
it makes people wonder the integrity of the other poster when you state lies like you know them from some secret place no one eles knows.
you freak you do not even know me and that was the most pathetic attempt at getting sympathy from others i have ever heard, poor wounded Mike @ mj412 have a history and he is wounded lets get in on the sorrid story and take the focus off the fact you are unable to compete like a normal human would.
the plan isnt working I am still here you do not frighten me so much I will leave , it is just part of your sick need to control and whine and get attention.
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Mike
mj412,
You are right that I did not know you very well at all.
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Mike
WordWolf,
I noticed that your post referred to your previous post on page 33 of this thread, so it is with the earlier that I begin. There you posted page 29 of BTMS. On it is a SIMPLY STATED version of the law of believing, one that leaves out of its abbreviated form the vital role God?s promises MUST play in operating this law. This I pointed out, but I forgot to mention that in addition to this being an admittedly short version, but page 29 is also the INTRODUCTION to Part II of the book. In other words, this abbreviated version of the law appears in an abbreviated outline of the several chapters in Part II.
*********
Again, in that earlier post you quoted Dr thusly:
"What we believe for, we get."
"Our lives are molded by our believing-both by
positive and negative believing."
"What we believe equals what we are."
"What one believes in the depth of his soul
absolutely appears in his life."
"You bring to yourself whatever you believe."
"The law of believing works equally effectively
for both sinner and saint"
"The picture that you carry of yourself with
clearness and concern is what you are. This law
works for positive and negative thinking alike."
"As you change your thinking, you will draw a
mental pattern for the things you DO want in
your life, which in turn will dispel and root
out those things you do not want."
We could go to the gospels, as JerryB mentioned, and see that Jesus taught similarly. On some occasions he emphasized the power aspect of believing, but he also emphasized the great need for man to get his sights and desires on the things God thinks are important. In one passage we read the we can believe for anything, in another we read that we should line up our desires with the Word.
The quotes you isolated are good in their context, like the books have them.
The same quotes, isolated from their books? contexts are the seeds of TVT?s poison.
( TVT = Twi?s Cerbal Tradition )
****
As you saw, the requirements to receive
involve BELIEVING, and focusing your believing.
At no point is a REQUIREMENT made for your
believing being believing a promise of God.
It was believing and your mental focus and
picture that determine success or failure to
receive. At NO point is it said that if you
believe, but what you believe is NOT what God
promises, you won't get it no matter how much
you believe it.
The context of the words you refer to is Chapter One of BTMS, titled ?Release Form Your Prisons? and so the context of the focus is an uncontestable promise of God. If we took the same words and applied them to a cherry red convertable, we might have some problems.
BTW, the Foundational class syllabus (which you
got when you took the Advanced class) mentions
a few of these things, and says:
"What you fear, you will receive-it is a law."
Again, a syllabus, even the expanded syllabus, is an abbreviation. Plus ?Believing Equals Receiving? RHYMES, so it has that extra punch that helps it be remembered. But other things need to be remembered too, like keep God central to all this, and keep our mind?s desired disciplined to what God wants.
Shazdancer brought up the red drapes. I don't
know if it's in the books, but we ALL remember
the "fire-engine red" curtains mentioned in
the PFAL class.
Shazdancer said
"are red drapes a promise of God?"
I was surprised to see that they were not in the book. It was this that I mentioned, not much more.
In the film class, we must remember that part of the story was that Dr says he hadn?t gone that far spiritually, and that she must have had a need for red. She wasn?t believing a Red Curtains promise, she was believing God would meet that need, but Dr never explains WHY it was a need.
No, red drapes are not a promise of God.
****
Another promise in the Epistle of I John! Way in the back of your Bible! I John! The Epistle of I John! First! Second! Third John!
I John 5:14: And this is the confidence [this is the confidence] that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, [if we ask any thing according to his will] he heareth us:
Isn't that wonderful? If we have our need and our want parallel we ask anything according to His will; how can it be His Will if we don't know His Word? His Word is His Will that gets our need and our want parallel. If we know His Word we can parallel it off. And once we get our need and want parallel, whatsoever we ask, we get.
Many years ago when I was first questing in the integrity and accuracy of God's Word and doing Biblical research, just starting in the field, there were some things in the Word of God that we believed and that we understood and were practicing in our prayer life. And we were really concerned about learning more about God's Word.
We had a letter from one of our radio audience from Cincinnati. And this good lady stipulated in that letter stating the following: she said, "now on Thursday night when you have your prayer group meeting and you meet with your people; I'd like for you to pray for an apartment for me. Because I have to find this apartment and I would like for this apartment to be within walking distance, two or three blocks from where I am employed." And she said, "It has to be a furnished apartment because I do not have my own furniture," and she said, "while your praying for this apartment within this area of where I am gainfully employed will you please ask God that in this furnished apartment there will be red drapes on the living room windows."
My, oh my. That shook me. I thought to myself well good lord, if I'm going to pray for her for an apartment and she gets that apartment she ought to be thankful. What difference does if make if its got pink drapes or yellow drapes or orange drapes on the living room window? But she had stipulated in her letter please pray that there be red drapes on the window.
Well I don't know who did the believing, I helped in the praying but I want to tell you something that night spiritually I hadn't gone this far; I believed for the apartment this I could believe for, it was a need I understood this. So I believed that she'd have an apartment but I can't imagine and I know that I did not believe anything about drapes at all.
But we prayed that evening and within fifteen minutes of the time when we had prayed for this situation this lady in Cincinnati many, many, many miles away had a telephone call from an entire stranger who said to her "a friend of yours told me that you have need of an apartment, is this right?" And she said, "yes." And she said, "well where's it located?" He said, "well such and such a place." Within two blocks of where she was employed. So she said to him, "May I come and see it in the morning?" He said, "You certainly may."
They made an appointment. She went next morning and looked at this apartment. And when she walked into the living room what do you think the color of those drapes were on those living room windows? Green, oh no they weren't. They were fire engine red. That's right.
People, she must have had her need and her want parallel. Look at this. All right! She rented a furnished apartment and it had to have drapes on the window, right? Does it make God any difference whether the drapes are green or red or pink? No, but she had a need, that need was that they might as well have red drapes on, that's what she wanted. She got her need and her want parallel. She not only got that apartment but she got the red drapes on the windows.
You talk about the accuracy of God's Word when He said He'll supply all of our need according to His riches in glory. Doesn't say He'll supply our greed but He'll supply our need according to His riches in glory. That's true. It's wonderful.
***
As VPW taught it, believing IN AND OF ITSELF
appropriated results, REGARDLESS OF THE CONTENT
OF WHAT IS BELIEVED.
This is not true. In many places Dr mentioned that the promise of God was mandatory.
Suppose I found TWO. Would that satisfy you?
How about if I found three?
****
You then quoted the page 29 passage again, and here I?ll raise the ?simply stated? part to ALL-CAPS.
"The law, SIMPLY STATED, is that what we believe
for or expect, we get. This applies in every
realm: physical, mental, material, spiritual."
So, remember this is an abbreviated version.
***
To your: ?We just SAW "numerous" references.? I again mention that they all were taken out of contexts. It was in the contexts that the limits of the law of believing were taught.
***
BTW, Mike,
don't pretend I said vpw said God's promises
are irrelevant, or that we shouldn't believe
God. He did say we should believe God, and to
believe His promises.
What I AM saying is that as vpw taught it in
pfal, the CONTENT of what is believed is
incidental to appropriate it.
NO! What you are saying that AS YOU seclude yourself in the abbreviated versions the content of what is believed is incidental. AS Dr taught it, in it?s full versions, the promise of God is MANDATORY.
***
Now we finally come to your more recent post, the one I promised mj412 I?d deal with.
?Ok, Mike's understanding of 'law' doesn't seem to be
that far from what vpw was saying. (As originally
cited a page or so back.)?
Because I haven?t thoroughly studied Dr?s use of ?law? I?m not in a good position to comment further... yet. I have however, noted some other more ?exotic? laws pop up here and there in PFAL.
***
?I'd like to point out, however, that Mike has freely
admitted he doesn't know what vpw said about "laws".?
Gads! Are you desperate for points in this debate, or WHAT?!
What I mean is that I?ve not studied it as much as I?d like to before posting on it. I was being honest, and you penalize me?
****
What vpw said about "laws" was all over Session I,
the Blue Book, and the Orange Book!
(See previous citations from same about a page back
if you don't have yours in front of you.)
Some time ago, I cited the first Session of pfal,
"The Greatest Secret in the World Today", and how
its main points contradicted his main thesis.
Did you notice or mention that in the film class there are two mentions of two ?greatest secrets? but one got edited out of the book? I noticed this in the 70?s and often pondered the common points that these two greatest secrets had.
Here they are:
*****************************************************************
Well, ladies and gentlemen, if Jesus Christ came that we might life and have it more abundantly; he either told the truth or he lied. If he lied to us here in the Word of God when he declared that he came that we might have life and have it more abundantly, if he lied to us, then the best thing you and I could to do is just chuck the whole thing. Throw it all away. But if he told the truth, if he meant what he said and said what he meant when he declared that he came that we might have life and have it more than abundantly, ladies and gentlemen, somewhere, someplace, somehow, surely there must be keys, there must be signposts that will guide us into the understanding and the receiving of this life which is more than abundant. And I believe that this class on Power For Abundant Living, that this class is one of the stepping stones to make available this to people.
And this which Jesus Christ did and came to do, this is the greatest secret in the world today; the greatest secret in the world today. And this great secret is what we want to declare and make known. A secret is like a mystery--sometimes like a woman's purse, what she has in it--it's a mystery. Once you open it, once you see what's in it, then it's no longer a mystery.
The greatest secret in the world today is that Jesus Christ did come to make life more than abundantly available to believers. And this is the purpose of this Biblical research class: to enable our people, our children, our young people and our adults to tap into these resources that they can manifest this more abundant life.
This is a class on keys. I am not going to teach you the scriptures, every verse from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. This is not the purpose of the class. But, by God's mercy and by God's grace I expect to set before you all the basic keys in the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation which will unfold for you this life that Jesus Christ came to make available which is a life which is more that abundant.
This is why these keys in this class should bring us to the place that we will be certain in the midst of the uncertainty of our time. This Word of God and the greatness of God's revelation should be unto us a firm rock in the sea of speculation with which we're surrounded on every hand. And I want this class on Power For Abundant Living to be for you a safe anchorage in the ocean of doubt with which we are surrounded. And today certainly there is so much doubt and so much un-safeness, unconcern, that if we can come back to the keys of the Word of God and set these keys that you can utilize them with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision, then once again you can begin walking and you can begin to manifest that more abundant life.
This first lesson, the first lesson in this first session of this class on Power For Abundant Living deals with the greatest secret in the world today. And do you know that this greatest secret in the world today literally is: that the Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God. The greatest secret in the world today, anyplace, anywhere, is that the Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God because people for the most part just do not believe it. Even those who are deeply spiritual, they'll take one segment out of the Word of God and drop another. Ladies and gentlemen either the Bible's the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation all the way through or it's not the Word of God anywhere. And the greatest secret in the world today is that the Bible, the Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God. That's the great secret.
You know, I'd like to state it another way: that the Word of God is the Will of God. This is our power for abundant living. It's like it's up here above this chart board and you'll see it hundreds of times through the teaching of this class. The Word of God is the Will of God--the Word of God being the Will of God--that's the greatest secret in the world today!
Now to get to the depth of this and to start into its depth I'd like for you to take your Bibles and turn to the Book of Jeremiah. The book of Jeremiah! In the Old Testament: Psalms! Proverbs! Ecclesiastes! Song of Solomon! Isaiah! Jeremiah! And there in chapter 2 in verse 13 of this chapter listen to what this Word of God says:
Jeremiah 2:13: For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
Who is God talking to? He says, "My people." He's talking to His people. He's not talking to people who are on the outside of the pale. He's talking to those who are within the fold so to speak.
****************************************************************
?A page ago, Mike utterly mangled the story of Elijah,
whose name he couldn't even get close to remembering.
(He didn't even confuse him with Elisha, which would be
understandable.) This is especially strange, since vpw
taught on Elijah. This is partially understandable, since
Mike has proudly proclaimed the inferiority of the Bible,
and, as such, might well not have opened the book for years.
So, what does this tell us??
I?d say this tells us you are again desperate to find something to criticize me on. I tried to cover both spellings in one name, along with the appropriate international sign of (sp?) which in every language means ?You?re not important enough for me to bother looking this up or using a spell checker, even though I know I got it wrong.?
Sorry, next time I?ll look it up.
****
So, when we quote PAGE AFTER PAGE of material that vpw
wrote, it becomes obvious what vpw said. We looked at
several pages of vpw's writings a few pages back, more than
once. These quotes were diametrically opposed to what vpw
said. (They said the OPPOSITE what Mike SAID they said.)
It looks like I could say the exact same thing of you. I too havce posted page after page of obvious things. The only difference is I have been closely examining these pages for 5 years, and you?ve been doing it RECENTLY far less. I?m glad to see you all getting your books out and re-acquiring them as needed. And they ARE needed.
?Mike's response was NOT to amend his thinking to match the
pfal materials...?
NOPE! My response was NOT to amend my thinking to match your recent appraisals of the pfal materials...? I KNOW what I responded to.
***
?... (which would be internally-consistent to
Mike's STATED theology). Mike's response was ALSO not to
cite another place in the same books, trying to refute
the previous quotes. What was Mike's response??
Talk about citing page after page, I can do that too.
Sometimes when pressed on this I cite Green page 34 and page 116.
Page 34 says ?...every word i have written to you is true.
Page 116 says ?...if you think this is just Victor Paul Wierwille writing or speaking to you, you will never receive. If you know that what I am saying to you are words which the Holy Ghost has spoken and is speaking to you by me, then you too will manifest the greatness of the power of God.?
Just for the book ownerless, here they are in full form with my ALL-CAPS:
****************************************************************
TNDC p.34
Change what you put in your mind. To change the
food you are sending to your mind is to ?renew your
mind.? Think those things which are true, honest,
just, pure, lovely and of good report.
If you by your free will accept Christ as your
Savior and renew your mind according to The Word,
you will find THAT EVERY WORD I HAVE
WRITTEN TO YOU IS TRUE. I challenge you to
stand upon the Word of God, declare your authority
in Christ and claim your rights. The Amplified
Version translates a verse in Romans so vividly.
Romans 10:11:
The Scripture says, No man who believes in Him
? who adheres to, relies on and trusts in Him ?
will [ever] be put to shame or be disappointed.
(The Amplified New Testament)
Let us make our unqualified commitment; let us
confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God raised Him
from the dead. We will never be disappointed.
****************************************************************
TNDC p.116
Let me unfold the keys to you and shortly you too
will be speaking the wonderful works of God. Acts
2:4 says, ?And they were all filled with the Holy
Ghost.? They were all filled, nobody was missed.
Nobody ever gets missed if he has heard The Word
and if he believes it and then acts upon it. God is
always faithful and nobody then can be passed over.
Do exactly what I tell you to do down to the most
minute detail.
Paul in I Thessalonians 2:13, thanked God that
?when ye received the word of God which ye heard
of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it
is in truth, the word of God.? You too must follow
God?s truth as told in the Word of God. But IF YOU
THINK THIS IS JUST VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE
WRITING OR SPEAKING to you, you will never
receive. If you know that WHAT I AM SAYING TO
YOU ARE WORDS WHICH THE HOLY GHOST
HAS SPOKEN AND IS SPEAKING TO YOU BY ME,
then you too will manifest the greatness of the power
of God. If you will literally do what I ask you, then
you can manifest the fullness of the abundance of God,
the wonderful power of God.
*****************************************************************
?Well, way back when I cited Session One originally, Mike's
response was to pretend I didn't, and hope the points would
go away if he never acknowledged them.?
Wait a dog gone minute! How do you know your citations weren?t buried in the threads before I could get to it? Paste it in again if you think it?s important. I loose track of many posts here, but I try not to. I still have to track down Thomas Heller?s from last month. I lost it too.
********
Mike does not know the contents of the Bible, and Mike does
not know the contents of vpw's books. Personally, I'm
curious if he even has a copy of them at present, or if he's
relying on his memory of what he thinks the pfal books said.
Mike's theology is in no way based on the Bible.
Mike's theology is in no way based on vpw's pfal books.
This has been pointed out, in parts, many times. At the
moment, we can see that we probably grossly
misunderestimated the degree to which Mike is ignorant of
the contents of the books upon which he claims to base his
theology.
Are you really? Again I sense the air of a desperate man? I really see little need to comment on this. I just want to get a good grade on this composition.
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Mike
Rafael,
How about if you name some things that ARE laws in your book?
Just give me a few examples of things that qualify.
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socks
Rafael, I figured you'd appreciate that. I really think the whole issue speaks first and foremost to the honesty of the person doing the writing. It's rampant in music on all sorts of levels. The Rolling Stones would be pumping gas if not for a few artist's whose music they absorbed, Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, Jimmy Reed, some others.
Now all these years later, they have their own "sound" but they clearly and consistently recognize and point others to the "originals" that influenced them so strongly. They obviously feel their music is their own but anyone who knows American music knows the bucket they carry their tunes around in was made by others. It would be laughable to claim it's cut from cloth of their own making.
When we get to talking religion though all bets are off, every person who blows their nose with a bible can say their guided by the very hand of God and they're usually doing it while they're selling you brand spankin' "new" bible hankies for cold, hard cash. And that's the rub. It's all about money. Here's a guy who says he's got the very promise of God that if he'll teach it, God'll teach him bible like nobody's business, and what's he do?
He sells it.
'when you're in love, there's no time and no space. there's a permanent smile on your face...
and hey somewhere, you threw your fear in the sea of no cares...'
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Mike
socks,
I want to thank you for fleshing out, and straightening out my paraphrase of the George Harrison situation.
I like your music analogy. To a degree it fits with God's family as opposed to the marketplace or academia. In a way it?s the Stones greatness that gives them a pass, just like George Harrison.
I see two other analogies, where origination credit or ownership are thrown to the wind. They are war and sports.
A team effort does not make a big deal of individual contributions. If some techniques or munitions are needed by other team members, the originator or owner is not such a valid concept to consider deeply in the heat of battle. Thus it was in the family of God attempting to live behind enemy lines.
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