Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
NKJV
All the religious knowledge in the world may not be of profit. Some of it may be rubbish. However, a knowledge of Jesus Christ as saviour is one to be esteemed. It should bring a person life and be a light burden. This is the only religious absolute for me.
We are often quick to give advise. Some is good and some is not so. However, every man must weigh the messages for themselves. They ultimately are responsible. If they judge correctly they will benefit. If they don't they will not. A number of people have offered good advise here on this thread. A few have offered excellent advise. I am done with this thread. I have said all I need to say. If a person has ears to hear they will hear. If not then they will not. Or perhaps they will get the message at another time and place.
Mike, you have in deed closed your mind THAT is patenently obvious....closed to the bible...closed to the truth...ultimatly closed to God.
It is very sad that you must reject the bible because it contradicts the idolotry you wish to operate.
No Mike, I do not expect to change your closed mind.... however, I refuse to standby and allow you to spread your lies unchallenged.
Vp was a maggot...wether you can accept that or not, changes nothing...galations clearly states what vp`s actions were clearly indicative of...whether you can accept it or not...
Your ability to accept something has no bearing whatsoever on wwhether or not it is true...
Mike - In your post of June 13, 2003, 12:25, about 2/3 of the way down page 22 of this thread, you wrote, "I don't look to spirits... for the spiritual understanding of PFAL, I ask THE Holy Spirit, my Daddy."
I have no doubt you are asking the Holy Spirit for understanding, Mike, but whose answers are you listening to?
In your post of April 24, 2003, 22:48, about 2/3 of the way down page 12 of this thread, you wrote, "Did you know that it's very possible to receive a revelation from the devil, and not be possessed? Jesus Christ heard a voice and saw a vision, but he recognized the contradictions with the written Word... It wasn't like the devil looked ugly, with red skin, a tail and horns. He probably was the most beautiful thing Jesus had ever seen in his life! But Jesus wasn't fooled or distracted because he spent so much time with the written Word."
In the same post, you also wrote, "Dr said we weren't responsible for thoughts that occur to us (devil revelations), but we ARE responsible for not letting them lodge (take up residence) in our hair."
And also, "As we master and learn the 5-senses messages in those books [PFAL, et al.], with repeated and thorough readings, we can turn our attention to hear God whisper to us the hidden messages HE, GOD, put in there that our 5-senses would never pick up. Also the 5-senses readings help us build protection against devilish doctrines that are all around out there. Our adversary can and will attempt to whisper wrong meanings to us as we work the Word."
On page 83 of PFAL, this is exactly what Wierwille wrote, "It does not say search Shakespeare or Kant or Plato or Aristotle or V.P. Wierwille's writings, or the writings of a denomination. No, it says 'Search the Scriptures...' because all Scripture is God-breathed. Not all that Wierwille writes will necessarily be God-breathed; nor what Calvin said, nor Luther, nor Wesley, nor Graham, nor Roberts; but the Scriptures - they are God-breathed."
The 5-senses meaning of this passage, according to all the rules of grammar, is as follows: Wierwille's words fall into the same catagory as the words of Shakespeare, Kant, Plato, Aristotle, Calvin, Luther, Wesley, Graham, Roberts and denominational writings; the words in this catagory are different from the words in the catagory called "Scripture" because ALL the words of Scripture are necessarily God-breathed, while NOT ALL the words of the other catagory will necessarily be God-breathed.
Say I am working this passage from PFAL when two spiritual voices begin whispering different things to me.
Spiritual voice "A" whispers, "Wierwille meant exactly what Wierwille wrote."
Spiritual voice "B" whispers, "We just don't KNOW exactly what Wierwille wrote. The spiritual meaning of this passage is that SOME of what Wierwille writes will NECESSARILY be God-breathed."
According to your own stated criteria, Mike, is whispering spiritual voice "B" the Holy Spirit or the adversary?
Mike, keep up the good work. Was away for the weekend and got behind. Maybe you could take one question from one poster at a time and have the posters take a number or something. This piling on just ain't cuttin' it.
Swatting flies is fun but putting the crosshairs on big game and pulling the trigger is more rewarding.
Ginger Tea, I think I'm falling in love with you. Can you accept flowers from a stranger?
rascal, does your husband approve of your activity on this thread? Does he even know about it? Your name calling is very unbecoming.
WordWolf, take another break.
Mj412, do you understand the phrase "GET A LIFE!!!"?
Steve and Mark, are you guys twins?
CoolWaters, you've got a nice ***. How're you fixed for "t"?
My husband???? MY HUSBAND???? What in the heck does HE have to do with any of this? roflmao...
oh yeeeeah....snort...I forgot ...lol.. twi women were allowed no personal opinions outside of what their hubby dictates..... grooooan...
Do you honestly HONESTLY think ... snigger... that we still live in that tiny little twi world where I have to have, have to ask, am expected to ask, or desir, much less NEED his permission or aproval to post??? omG...roflmao ...whew pant pant...
Uh hunnnnney bunny ...ummmm is it alright if I acknowledge the spirit of God working within me today and post my insight??/ pleeeease purty peeeeease..... I`ll give you some nooookie tonight wink wink......muahahahaha AHAHAHA ...
sigh...I had forgotten what a bigotted mindset twi once inspired.....duh... what married??... a MARRIED woman???? Oh, well NO spiritual perception (soup) for YOU! guffaw..snoort..lol pant pant ...whew ..holy spirit and all discernment abilities flew right out the window when we said I do.......aaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha..
So Terribly sorry that my *name calling ghas offended you, however...YOUR idolization of that moggot wierwille, a proven man of the flesh, a wolf in sheeps clothing, a false prophet and your support of that blind man Mike, attempting to lead folks back into a ditch... DEEPLY offends ME!
How bout this ...I`ll quit being offensive when you do!!!! roflmao... hubby....snigger... giving a rats a-- about what I post..........GUFFAW....... oh gawd... stop wheeze wheeze...
[This message was edited by rascal on June 16, 2003 at 15:01.]
Nope not me... am JUST a woman.....oops fergot in twi uh oh...oh no....here we go... rofl. snicker....they held about the same amount of value respect...muahahahahahhahahaha you are TOO funny seaspray.
Typically, You and Mike can`t deal with the honest information, or the obvious wisdom of the scriputre quoted in my posts, so you have to resort to whining and discounting my insight due to my gender, or thae fact that my hubby might no know or aprove of my posts....lol...you are such a dufus seaspray.......
Before we go deeper into this particular verse in II Peter, let's look into the Old Testament and see how those holy men of God spoke who received this revelation. We have seen from John 4:24 that God is Spirit. God being Spirit can only speak to what He is. God cannot speak to the natural human mind. This is why The Word could not come by the will of man because the will of man is in the natural realm. God being Spirit can only speak to what He is - spirit. Things in the natural realm may be known by the five senses - seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching. But God is Spirit and, therefore, cannot speak to brain cells; God cannot speak to a person's mind. It is a law and God never oversteps His own laws. The spirit from God had to be upon these men, otherwise they could never have received revelation as Paul declared in Galatians. Numbers 11:17 helps explain revelation.
And I [God] will come down and talk with thee [Moses] there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them ....
God is Spirit and He could reveal Himself through the spirit from God which was upon Moses. Then Moses, having a mind, used his vocabulary and wrote the revealed Word of God. That is the exact means by which the Word of God came into being.
We have failed to walk in deliverance in this our day and time because The Word is not real, it is not alive, it is not dynamic to or in us. Consequently most people are spiritual cripples, spiritual hitchhikers. They ride along on somebody else's beliefs. Many people today would much rather read and study the literature of the hour than the literature of eternity. Why? Because the word of man has had preeminence over the wonderful Word of God. If what man says contradicts what The Word says, they stick to man's word rather than The Word. If we want deliverance, if we want to tap the resources for the more abundant life, then God's Word demands that we study and live by this matchless Word.
Before we move into the depth of the new birth, we must realize some fundamental terms. When I speak of the "natural man," I speak of the man of body and soul, the man who is not born again of God's Spirit. This is the accurate Biblical usage of natural man. The five senses are the only avenues of learning that the natural man has to gain knowledge. Everything that ever comes to a natural man's mind must come by one or a combination of these five senses: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching.
We gather information through our five senses from a source or sources outside ourselves. We come to conclusions from our accumulated knowledge, and thus we believe what we believe. Being aware of the process of learning, I came to the conclusion many years ago that for me the Word of God (not the King James Version, but the Word of God which was given when "... holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost") would be my source for truth. This is my center of reference for learning.
Adam's mistake was cataclysmic for God had said, "For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." What died on the day Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Did Adam and Eve still have bodies and souls? Certainly. What they no longer had was their connection with God, spirit. This is why God said, "The day that thou eatest thereof thou shall surely die." Many times clergy, theologians or commentaries have said, "Well, they didn't really die. It was just the seeds of spiritual death that were planted in them because the Word of God says that Adam lived some 800 years after that." The Word does not agree with this explanation. The Word says, "the day [the very day] that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely [absolutely] die. "One must understand the man of body, soul and spirit to be aware of exactly what happened on the day that Adam defied God's one rule.
The spirit disappeared. The reason the spirit was called dead is that it was no longer there. Their entire spiritual connection with God was lost. From that very day Adam and Eve were just body and soul - as any other animal.
Man, being body and soul, had to rely solely on his five senses. ...
Man, being body and soul, had to rely solely on his five senses. From the day Adam ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil until the day of Pentecost thousands of years later, God came into concretion whenever He wanted to talk to man. He had to come into some form for the man's senses to perceive and thereby understand. Moses, traveling along in the wilderness, saw a burning bush; and from the midst of the burning bush, he heard a voice. Moses' senses perceived God. The children of Israel could see the Ten Commandments. This was the means by which God came into concrete form to tell them what to do. Annually, on the Day of Atonement, the high priest entered into the Holy of Holies to make sacrifices. He laid his hands on the goat and then sent it into the wilderness to die. God had said that as surely as the Israelites saw the goat go into the wilderness, their sins went with it. They could see the goat, they could see the stone tablet, they could see the burning bush.
God had to come into concrete form because men had no means by which to understand spiritual things. But since man still did have the five senses, he could believe. This explains why Jesus Christ was born. Jesus Christ was born so that people could see Him; He had to be manifested in physical form. Jesus said, "... He that hath seen me hath seen the Father ...." God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Jesus was the concretion.
When a man of body and soul can say to me, "I don't believe in your God. "I say, "I know. "He may look around stunned because he expected to fight for his position, but he gets no fight because I know the accuracy of The Word - he can't know God for he is a natural man who understands only the world of the five senses.
I Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Natural man cannot know spiritual matters because they are spiritually discerned. Having summed up the situation in one verse of Scripture, God couldn't have stated Himself more clearly. Because the things of God are spiritual, they must be known by the spirit. That is why The Word says that spiritual things are foolishness to the natural, scientific man. The natural man goes by his reason - by what he can see, hear, smell, taste and touch - and not by the revealed Word of God.
I Corinthians 1:21:
For after that in the wisdom of God [spiritual wisdom] the world by wisdom [sense-knowledge wisdom] knew not God ....
For to be carnally minded [sense-knowledge minded] is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: [The brain of many is in conflict with God - senses versus revelation.] for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh [who live by their five senses] cannot please God.
The flesh cannot please God because God is Spirit.
Jeremiah 17 also points out the natural man?s inability to know God and matters associated with Him.
Jeremiah 17:5-8:
Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and [who] maketh flesh [the five senses] his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.
For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought; neither shall cease from yielding fruit.
The one man trusts in the arm of the flesh and the other trusts in God. The contrast is obvious.
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.
What does dead mean? Man appeared to be lively. He had body and soul, but was dead in trespasses and sins because he had no spirit. Psalms says that all men are conceived and born in sin. This does not mean that the parents were sinful in the way in which they had intercourse. Man is conceived and born in sin because he has no spirit.
Having only a body and soul, how does a natural man ever again have a connection with the spiritual realm? Spiritual things can only be known by the spirit, even as things in the natural realm can only be known by the five senses. Since natural man cannot know God, what is the bridge that spans the chasm between the natural man and God? The bridge is faith.
But natural man does not have faith because faith is a spiritual element. How then does he get faith to span that chasm?
Before going further, let us clarify the difference between the two words "faith" and "believing." These two words are not synonymous though the King James and other translations have used them interchangeably. Faith is an inner spiritual development, while believing is an action of the human mind. The natural man of body and soul can believe; but the natural man cannot have faith.
Galatians 3:22:
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
The natural man of body and soul, the unsaved man, does not have faith. Faith is spiritual and the natural man cannot have it. But the man of body and soul can believe.
Anything that can be seen is in the category of the senses; and the things of the senses are always temporal. But that which you cannot see - the spirit of God, the faith of Jesus Christ, the righteousness of God, justification, sanctification - all these are the things which are eternal.
How can a man of body and soul get the faith of Jesus Christ? How can he get the justification of God, redemption and sanctification? The answer is simple. To receive all this from God we must do one thing - believe. The next question is: what are we to believe?
To answer this, we must first see what God wrought in Christ, which in turn Christ works within us as we of body and soul believe.
Jesus Christ was God's plan from the beginning to manifest God who is Spirit on the level of the senses so that sense-knowledge man might be redeemed. God in His foreknowledge knew that Adam and Eve would sin and that He would have to send His Son to redeem mankind. God, being consistent and law-abiding, had to work within a legal framework to redeem man. Since by man came sin and death, by man also would have to come the redemption from sin and death. Jesus Christ was a human being who physically had all the fundamental life processes and endured all things. Hebrews 4:15 says that He "... was in all points [things] tempted like as we are, yet without sin. "Jesus Christ was God's plan for manifestation in the senses world. John 14:9 records, "... he that [who] hath seen me hath seen the Father. "Jesus Christ manifested God in the world which understood only what it saw, heard, smelled, tasted or touched.
To understand God's manifesting Himself in the flesh through His Son, let us first see how God, Who is Spirit, could have a Son in the flesh. First of all, most people do not understand The Word, nor do they understand God and how He operates. They do not differentiate between the words "formed," "made," and "created," or "body," "soul," and "spirit. "If we do not understand these truths, it is impossible to understand how a woman could conceive by the power of God and bring forth the Lord Jesus Christ. The most enlightening verse on the conception and the bringing forth of the Lord Jesus Christ is in Hebrews.
I and II Thessalonians stand by themselves because they speak about the return of Christ and the gathering together. Read the Epistles in the light which I have just shared and new vistas of understanding will become apparent to you.
[You] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles [trickery]of the devil,
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places [from on high].
Our fight, our battle, is not with John Doe or our neighbor or the minister. Our fight is always a spiritual one encountering spiritual powers, wickedness and evil spirits who are trying to counterfeit God. ?We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual powers.?
Ephesians 6:13:
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all ... stand.
[This message was edited by Mike on June 16, 2003 at 16:44.]
Pawtucket, I guess that you`d better alter the registration page of gspot to reflect whether or not the applicant is married or single, male or female, and then assign stars or marks by their name in order of their eligibility, respect, or credence their posts are to be given...
Better yet, I guess you`d better enclose permission slips for alla the married gals to get their hubby`s to sign and return before granting them permission to post!!!!
A most egregious oversighte ... one that should be corrected immediatly!
Well, Mike has made it plain for every OLG who reads that his response to my question is an evasion rather than a blanked recognition.
Mike, YOU wrote this, "As we master and learn the 5-senses messages in those books, with repeated and thorough readings, we can turn our attention to hear God whisper to us the hidden messages HE, GOD, put in there that our 5-senses would never pick up. Also the 5-senses readings help us build protection against devilish doctrines that are all around out there. Our adversary can and will attempt to whisper wrong meanings to us as we work the Word."
YOU wrote it, Mike, YOU wrote it!
If you can't tell the difference between the whisperings of God and the whisperings of our adversary, then you don't have any business endorsing ANY particular interpretation of ANY meaning.
If you refuse to divulge the true source of your spiritual meanings, well... that speaks volumes in itself.
This question is not going to go away.
Love,
Steve
Oh... just one more thing... If you're having trouble with olfaction, you might consider what Paul had to say in II Corinthians 2:14-16, "Now thanks be unto God which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things."
If you really can't tell the difference between God's voice and our adversary's, Mike, I don't suppose we can expect you to tell the difference between the smell of death and the smell of life.
Mike: I own the SAME books, have read and re-read them umpteen times and could type the same pages--so????????????? you think that there is something NEW there that I did not understand 30 years ago and more??? ...
DON'T YOU DARE PRESUME TO SAY WHAT I KNOW AND UNDERSTAND, MIKE!!!! AM I F*CKING CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU???? ...
Now mike, I know that you think we don't know anything but really I know personally I have worked and worked and worked those PFAL books till I was blue in the face. I was not a worshipper of vpw. All that you explain is not new to me. Nor to most of us here. We choose not to make it confining.
You have not answered my question and I have asked you a couple of times all ready. Could you please tell us if you are seeing those signs and miracles that we all saw in the 70's? I for one would love to hear of it. And your fellowship? Is the love being manifested like it was in the 70's? I'm not talking about yelling and getting in someone's face. I'm talking about working with people and seeing their lives change. Getting people born again and watching them grow? I don't think I'm asking so much. I would want to shout it off the rooftops if that was happening!!! So please I'm anxiously awaiting your answer because I would really want to hear of it.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
My post I left yesterday about you being a spiritual fraud was not a recent idea of mine. I have had this opinion of you for several months. I needed to say that because I see you up to your same dishonest posting habits. I know you consider that the bible is unreliable, but here is a verse that was taught in PFAL:
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal. II Cor 13:1
As a WOW I was taught that when we did outreach we were to answer people's honest questions. It is our duty to love people by teaching them the Word of God. You try to impress people with your educational background and years of study. When people ask you honest questions that are related to your posts your either evade the question (I'm too busy right now) or you say that their heart is not right and they have to master PFAL to get an answer. This is biblically dishonest.
I do not even know if I would be a practicing Christian today if it were not for my first twig coordinator who taught me advanced class material shortly after I first came to fellowship. So if you can not answer someone's honest question it either means that: 1) you do not have the answer, 2) you have the answer but you do not want to help them. You claim to have the answers so it must mean that you do not love us enough to answer them. You have become a sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal.
The bitter irony of this whole situation is that of all the people on this site I was your most likely candidate to seriously consider what you say. I am still thankful for my time with the Way ministry and I still believe most of what I was taught. So if you have managed to arouse my suspicions; what hope do you have to win the trust of those who were hurt by leadership?
Sadly I come to your threads to be entertained. I come to see what preposterous or idolatrous ideas you promote. The only good thing that has come out of this thread is that I can see the wonderful heart of some of the people who post here.
EWB
P.S. I asked you my question four or five times in my private e-mails to you. I have seen at least five other people ask the same question. If you did not answer it months ago, I doubt if you could answer it now.
I've been reading our e-mail correspondence to find your question. Are you talking about the question of where to fellowship? That looks like a bigggie to you, and I did try some answering, but I guess, not to your satisfaction.
I think another thing you were dissatisfied with me was that I answered something with a pre-written main letter body, and some tailored sentences to fit you. This seemed to insult you, although it wasn?t intended.
I sense a bit of immaturity in your manner of questioning, but I can live with that. I asked you if you had observed how busy I was answering questions here, and you didn?t answer me on that. Part of maturity is being able to put yourself in another?s shoes. It?s a difficult mental feat, and additionally requires the willingness to step OUT of your own.
I?d be happy to spend LOTS of time with you on honest questions that are received honestly. You seem impressed with those who have the ability to give out honest answers, but are you aware of how dishonestly you?ve received what I have to share? For you to get all huffy over me pasting in something that I thought would bless you, and that I had spent a lot of time on, to me is dishonest. For you to complain to me about a private e-mail matter is immature.
I suggest you get over your phobia for pasting and paste your question in a more retrievable place. For you to give hints as to what your big question is and expect me to research it out is immature. You can also always e-mail me with questions, but to publicly accuse me of not paying enough attention to you is childish. If you had done it privately, it?s still be a wrong accusation, but at least it would have been Biblical.
You see it?s dishonest of you to come here a with a descriptive handle of maturity, and a show of maturity in your speech, but in your interactions act childish.
So, now that we?re done scolding each other, let?s get back to the topics I find MUCH more enjoyable.
Instead of talking about me here, why not address the topic. Your private issue will get much higher priority form me if it were e-mailed.
mike name calling again? Gosh if someone wanted to know something I had to share I wouldn't put them down. Its too bad you had to call him childish. Now why would you want to do that? Not fair mike.
Hey would you please answer my question? I would really want to know.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
I'm well aware of your great mastery. Those posts are to help Steve read with better understanding the enigmatic pages 23 and 24 of the Blue Book. Maybe you could give him a little help with them too.
I suggest that whenever you see my name on a post you get ready to hit that saving PgDn key, because I'm getting ready to post many more.
If I remember, I'll put up a little warning flag... just for you.
You are getting worked up over nothing. I?ve answered your question before her, and I?ll do it again.
The HOW of discerning God?s voice from devil spirits is contained within the quote of mine that you posted.
Here?s what you quoted of me: ?As we master and learn the 5-senses messages in those books, with repeated and thorough readings, we can turn our attention to hear God whisper to us the hidden messages HE, GOD, put in there that our 5-senses would never pick up. Also the 5-senses readings help us build protection against devilish doctrines that are all around out there. Our adversary can and will attempt to whisper wrong meanings to us as we work the Word.?
1. ?master and learn the 5-senses messages in those books?
2. ?the 5-senses readings help us build protection against devilish doctrines?
Dr told us MANY times that the only way to tell the difference between the counterfeit and the genuine is by MASTERING the genuine.
Come back to PFAL and the Voice of God will become more recognizable against the din of error.
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Yanagisawa
Did you say "get the ball rolling" or get the kaballa rolling...for it sounds like that's your current freak - some sort of hidden, mystical kaballa-esque gnostic esotericism. I'm fascinated with you
Mark Sanguinetti
Speaking of absolutes, here is one.
Phil 3:8-9
Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
NKJV
All the religious knowledge in the world may not be of profit. Some of it may be rubbish. However, a knowledge of Jesus Christ as saviour is one to be esteemed. It should bring a person life and be a light burden. This is the only religious absolute for me.
We are often quick to give advise. Some is good and some is not so. However, every man must weigh the messages for themselves. They ultimately are responsible. If they judge correctly they will benefit. If they don't they will not. A number of people have offered good advise here on this thread. A few have offered excellent advise. I am done with this thread. I have said all I need to say. If a person has ears to hear they will hear. If not then they will not. Or perhaps they will get the message at another time and place.
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vickles
Mark,
I understand how you feel. This is getting rather tiring. Hope to see you on other threads. I have enjoyed reading your posts.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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WordWolf
Mike,
A) I made it clear by its label that it was a
chronology as I see it. I did NOT label it a
DEFINITIVE chronology.
Unlike you, I make no claims about my position
being the ONE and ONLY one with merit.
B) Actually, that list was off-the-cuff.
Wait until you see me actually post something
after I research.
:)--> That was NOT me putting
a lot into it. It only took me the time to
type it. I've been paying attention all along.
C) Actually, there were a LOT of things I could
have said that would have been a LOT more
negative. I confined negativity based on its
relative germaine-ness to the thread.
I also confined my comments about you strictly
to things you've posted here, without adding
any commentary at all. If that looks negative,
guess what? That's hardly how I alone see it,
that IS how the majority of your "subscribers"
view you. (Example of things I left out in the
chronology-Mike wearing out his welcome at all
the OTHER ex-twi survivor sites.)
D) I knew you weren't going to try to address
any points I made. These same points had been
made on plenty of other threads in open
discussion. You declined to play along with
the other kids when you had a chance to offer
alternative viewpoints.
Of course, to date, the few times you've chosen
to address those points have revealed a POV so
virulent it invited comment from all over the
GSC. (Example-your attempt to paint molestation
and abuse as "run of the mill" for men in
authority; remember the responses you got to
THAT little gem?) So, refusal to address these
points reflects more a desire to do "damage
control" than anything else. If you truly
COULD address them in a satisfactory manner,
you'd get a LOT more postive feedback, and
occasionally someone AGREEING with you.
E) Actually, I summarized your message in an
amazingly short space, and refrained from
adding commentary.
F) My generalization of the thread so far was
obviously subjective, but DID give a summary
of the action so far. Just because you don't
LIKE the summary doesn't mean it was
misrepresentative. Likewise, I didn't puff up
a description about the posts contrary to
your position.
G) You had no need to post that it was "off the
mark." I had saved you the trouble by ending it
with commentary that you'd consider it
incorrect.
:)-->
H) Someone asked for a summary of the action
to date. I provided the best summary I could
of that. It was NOT meant as a definitive
statement of ANY position. Trust me, a REAL
refutation would pack a LOT more punch than
that.
I) My summary was hardly "disjoined"-I find,
for an "off-the-cuff" posting, it hangs
together remarkably well, maintaining grammar
and sticking to its subject matter as some
posts do not. Then again, since you don't LIKE
my post, and are not given to "discussion" of
a literary type, I'd expect you to disapprove
of it categorically. You COULD at least
appreciate it on its artistic merits, after all.
J) If that was an attempt at "summary of Mike's
message", it would have been less effective
communication than it was. Part of that would
be that it would be IMPROPERLY LABELLED.
It's CLEARLY LABELLED. There was no "hidden
message" in it-it's labelled what it's supposed
to be. If I opened a technical manual for
some computer hardware, and it clearly was
labelled a manual for setting up a network, and,
instead, it was really a manual for installing
a modem, it would certainly be less useful for
its incorrect label. (Out of practice reading
in a linear fashion, or just responding out of
emotion? Either way, it's not a good thing.)
K) I've been in discussions on journalistic
integrity before, with professional jounalists
with journalistic integrity. If they looked at
a journalistic work of mine and declared it
not up to specs, I'd be concerned. They are
trained and experienced in attempting to
minimize journalistic bias in writing and in
reviewing such writings. Granted, my OWN
journalistic experience and training is far
short of that-I'm NOT a professional
journalist-I HAVE benefitted from their
tutelage.
L) If I HAD claimed it was a "summary of Mike's
message", it would be subject to criticism on
both its content and its framing. I confined
the content germane to your position to things
you directly posted. I set the structure to
list a simple chronology. IF I HAD claimed
it was a journalistic representation, it would
have been passable at both, but fail due to
lack of documentation. Mike, it takes more
than a grasp of the language to make a decent
journalist, but it does NOT require he push an
agenda. He lets the facts speak for themselves.
If I HAD claimed such, I'd stake MY ability to
perform as a journalist against YOURS in any
fair contest, in any unbiased venue. Since I
did NOT claim that's what I was doing here,
your complaints were not relevant. They also
fall short of a professional critique. This MAY
come as a surprise to you, but twi survivors do
NOT automatically excel in all fields. That was
a fiction certain people held (hold?) forth.
You lack journalistic training, journalistic
experience, and journalistic credentials.
Forgive me if I take your "journalistic
critique" lightly as a result, on my
"journalistic" piece on the "summary of Mike's
message".
-----------------------------------------------
In short, your objections were unable to address
even ONE point of my post, demonstrated an
inability to READ THE LABEL, and claimed the
authority to speak on yet ANOTHER subject you
know less about than the person you're
addressing. On a Mike thread, that's typical.
-----------------------------------------------
P.S. -Again, if you look closely, I did NOT
descend to mudslinging in this post-I kept my
comments confined to your own. To disagree with
you is NOT to demonstrate intellectual
dishonesty.
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rascal
Mike, you have in deed closed your mind THAT is patenently obvious....closed to the bible...closed to the truth...ultimatly closed to God.
It is very sad that you must reject the bible because it contradicts the idolotry you wish to operate.
No Mike, I do not expect to change your closed mind.... however, I refuse to standby and allow you to spread your lies unchallenged.
Vp was a maggot...wether you can accept that or not, changes nothing...galations clearly states what vp`s actions were clearly indicative of...whether you can accept it or not...
Your ability to accept something has no bearing whatsoever on wwhether or not it is true...
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CoolWaters
Ginger...
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Steve Lortz
Mike - In your post of June 13, 2003, 12:25, about 2/3 of the way down page 22 of this thread, you wrote, "I don't look to spirits... for the spiritual understanding of PFAL, I ask THE Holy Spirit, my Daddy."
I have no doubt you are asking the Holy Spirit for understanding, Mike, but whose answers are you listening to?
In your post of April 24, 2003, 22:48, about 2/3 of the way down page 12 of this thread, you wrote, "Did you know that it's very possible to receive a revelation from the devil, and not be possessed? Jesus Christ heard a voice and saw a vision, but he recognized the contradictions with the written Word... It wasn't like the devil looked ugly, with red skin, a tail and horns. He probably was the most beautiful thing Jesus had ever seen in his life! But Jesus wasn't fooled or distracted because he spent so much time with the written Word."
In the same post, you also wrote, "Dr said we weren't responsible for thoughts that occur to us (devil revelations), but we ARE responsible for not letting them lodge (take up residence) in our hair."
And also, "As we master and learn the 5-senses messages in those books [PFAL, et al.], with repeated and thorough readings, we can turn our attention to hear God whisper to us the hidden messages HE, GOD, put in there that our 5-senses would never pick up. Also the 5-senses readings help us build protection against devilish doctrines that are all around out there. Our adversary can and will attempt to whisper wrong meanings to us as we work the Word."
On page 83 of PFAL, this is exactly what Wierwille wrote, "It does not say search Shakespeare or Kant or Plato or Aristotle or V.P. Wierwille's writings, or the writings of a denomination. No, it says 'Search the Scriptures...' because all Scripture is God-breathed. Not all that Wierwille writes will necessarily be God-breathed; nor what Calvin said, nor Luther, nor Wesley, nor Graham, nor Roberts; but the Scriptures - they are God-breathed."
The 5-senses meaning of this passage, according to all the rules of grammar, is as follows: Wierwille's words fall into the same catagory as the words of Shakespeare, Kant, Plato, Aristotle, Calvin, Luther, Wesley, Graham, Roberts and denominational writings; the words in this catagory are different from the words in the catagory called "Scripture" because ALL the words of Scripture are necessarily God-breathed, while NOT ALL the words of the other catagory will necessarily be God-breathed.
Say I am working this passage from PFAL when two spiritual voices begin whispering different things to me.
Spiritual voice "A" whispers, "Wierwille meant exactly what Wierwille wrote."
Spiritual voice "B" whispers, "We just don't KNOW exactly what Wierwille wrote. The spiritual meaning of this passage is that SOME of what Wierwille writes will NECESSARILY be God-breathed."
According to your own stated criteria, Mike, is whispering spiritual voice "B" the Holy Spirit or the adversary?
This question is not going to go away.
Love,
Steve
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seaspray
Mike, keep up the good work. Was away for the weekend and got behind. Maybe you could take one question from one poster at a time and have the posters take a number or something. This piling on just ain't cuttin' it.
Swatting flies is fun but putting the crosshairs on big game and pulling the trigger is more rewarding.
Ginger Tea, I think I'm falling in love with you. Can you accept flowers from a stranger?
rascal, does your husband approve of your activity on this thread? Does he even know about it? Your name calling is very unbecoming.
WordWolf, take another break.
Mj412, do you understand the phrase "GET A LIFE!!!"?
Steve and Mark, are you guys twins?
CoolWaters, you've got a nice ***. How're you fixed for "t"?
Are there any more questions?
Party on.
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CoolWaters
Seaspray...
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rascal
My husband???? MY HUSBAND???? What in the heck does HE have to do with any of this? roflmao...
oh yeeeeah....snort...I forgot ...lol.. twi women were allowed no personal opinions outside of what their hubby dictates..... grooooan...
Do you honestly HONESTLY think ... snigger... that we still live in that tiny little twi world where I have to have, have to ask, am expected to ask, or desir, much less NEED his permission or aproval to post??? omG...roflmao ...whew pant pant...
Uh hunnnnney bunny ...ummmm is it alright if I acknowledge the spirit of God working within me today and post my insight??/ pleeeease purty peeeeease..... I`ll give you some nooookie tonight wink wink......muahahahaha AHAHAHA ...
sigh...I had forgotten what a bigotted mindset twi once inspired.....duh... what married??... a MARRIED woman???? Oh, well NO spiritual perception (soup) for YOU! guffaw..snoort..lol pant pant ...whew ..holy spirit and all discernment abilities flew right out the window when we said I do.......aaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha..
So Terribly sorry that my *name calling ghas offended you, however...YOUR idolization of that moggot wierwille, a proven man of the flesh, a wolf in sheeps clothing, a false prophet and your support of that blind man Mike, attempting to lead folks back into a ditch... DEEPLY offends ME!
How bout this ...I`ll quit being offensive when you do!!!! roflmao... hubby....snigger... giving a rats a-- about what I post..........GUFFAW....... oh gawd... stop wheeze wheeze...
[This message was edited by rascal on June 16, 2003 at 15:01.]
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seaspray
CoolWaters, terrific!
rascal, maybe you're a maggot yourself.
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rascal
Nope not me... am JUST a woman.....oops fergot in twi uh oh...oh no....here we go... rofl. snicker....they held about the same amount of value respect...muahahahahahhahahaha you are TOO funny seaspray.
Typically, You and Mike can`t deal with the honest information, or the obvious wisdom of the scriputre quoted in my posts, so you have to resort to whining and discounting my insight due to my gender, or thae fact that my hubby might no know or aprove of my posts....lol...you are such a dufus seaspray.......
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Steve Lortz
How about you, seaspray? According to Mike's written criteria, which source do you think is whispering spiritual voice "B"?
Love,
Steve
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Mike
Oh Steve, there you go again!
Not only do you spiritually fart, but you try to get seaspray to sit on your Whoopee Cushion at the same time!
I?m going to open a window and let in some AIR.
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Mike
fresh data:
Natural-Factual vs. Spiritual-True
Significant and explanatory references in PFAL, the Power For Abundant Living book.
***************************************************************
page 78
Before we go deeper into this particular verse in II Peter, let's look into the Old Testament and see how those holy men of God spoke who received this revelation. We have seen from John 4:24 that God is Spirit. God being Spirit can only speak to what He is. God cannot speak to the natural human mind. This is why The Word could not come by the will of man because the will of man is in the natural realm. God being Spirit can only speak to what He is - spirit. Things in the natural realm may be known by the five senses - seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching. But God is Spirit and, therefore, cannot speak to brain cells; God cannot speak to a person's mind. It is a law and God never oversteps His own laws. The spirit from God had to be upon these men, otherwise they could never have received revelation as Paul declared in Galatians. Numbers 11:17 helps explain revelation.
And I [God] will come down and talk with thee [Moses] there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them ....
God is Spirit and He could reveal Himself through the spirit from God which was upon Moses. Then Moses, having a mind, used his vocabulary and wrote the revealed Word of God. That is the exact means by which the Word of God came into being.
***************************************************************
106
We have failed to walk in deliverance in this our day and time because The Word is not real, it is not alive, it is not dynamic to or in us. Consequently most people are spiritual cripples, spiritual hitchhikers. They ride along on somebody else's beliefs. Many people today would much rather read and study the literature of the hour than the literature of eternity. Why? Because the word of man has had preeminence over the wonderful Word of God. If what man says contradicts what The Word says, they stick to man's word rather than The Word. If we want deliverance, if we want to tap the resources for the more abundant life, then God's Word demands that we study and live by this matchless Word.
***************************************************************
229 - 230
Before we move into the depth of the new birth, we must realize some fundamental terms. When I speak of the "natural man," I speak of the man of body and soul, the man who is not born again of God's Spirit. This is the accurate Biblical usage of natural man. The five senses are the only avenues of learning that the natural man has to gain knowledge. Everything that ever comes to a natural man's mind must come by one or a combination of these five senses: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching.
We gather information through our five senses from a source or sources outside ourselves. We come to conclusions from our accumulated knowledge, and thus we believe what we believe. Being aware of the process of learning, I came to the conclusion many years ago that for me the Word of God (not the King James Version, but the Word of God which was given when "... holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost") would be my source for truth. This is my center of reference for learning.
***************************************************************
258
Adam's mistake was cataclysmic for God had said, "For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." What died on the day Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Did Adam and Eve still have bodies and souls? Certainly. What they no longer had was their connection with God, spirit. This is why God said, "The day that thou eatest thereof thou shall surely die." Many times clergy, theologians or commentaries have said, "Well, they didn't really die. It was just the seeds of spiritual death that were planted in them because the Word of God says that Adam lived some 800 years after that." The Word does not agree with this explanation. The Word says, "the day [the very day] that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely [absolutely] die. "One must understand the man of body, soul and spirit to be aware of exactly what happened on the day that Adam defied God's one rule.
The spirit disappeared. The reason the spirit was called dead is that it was no longer there. Their entire spiritual connection with God was lost. From that very day Adam and Eve were just body and soul - as any other animal.
Man, being body and soul, had to rely solely on his five senses. ...
***************************************************************
259
Man, being body and soul, had to rely solely on his five senses. From the day Adam ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil until the day of Pentecost thousands of years later, God came into concretion whenever He wanted to talk to man. He had to come into some form for the man's senses to perceive and thereby understand. Moses, traveling along in the wilderness, saw a burning bush; and from the midst of the burning bush, he heard a voice. Moses' senses perceived God. The children of Israel could see the Ten Commandments. This was the means by which God came into concrete form to tell them what to do. Annually, on the Day of Atonement, the high priest entered into the Holy of Holies to make sacrifices. He laid his hands on the goat and then sent it into the wilderness to die. God had said that as surely as the Israelites saw the goat go into the wilderness, their sins went with it. They could see the goat, they could see the stone tablet, they could see the burning bush.
God had to come into concrete form because men had no means by which to understand spiritual things. But since man still did have the five senses, he could believe. This explains why Jesus Christ was born. Jesus Christ was born so that people could see Him; He had to be manifested in physical form. Jesus said, "... He that hath seen me hath seen the Father ...." God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Jesus was the concretion.
***************************************************************
260
When a man of body and soul can say to me, "I don't believe in your God. "I say, "I know. "He may look around stunned because he expected to fight for his position, but he gets no fight because I know the accuracy of The Word - he can't know God for he is a natural man who understands only the world of the five senses.
I Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Natural man cannot know spiritual matters because they are spiritually discerned. Having summed up the situation in one verse of Scripture, God couldn't have stated Himself more clearly. Because the things of God are spiritual, they must be known by the spirit. That is why The Word says that spiritual things are foolishness to the natural, scientific man. The natural man goes by his reason - by what he can see, hear, smell, taste and touch - and not by the revealed Word of God.
I Corinthians 1:21:
For after that in the wisdom of God [spiritual wisdom] the world by wisdom [sense-knowledge wisdom] knew not God ....
***************************************************************
261 - 262
For to be carnally minded [sense-knowledge minded] is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: [The brain of many is in conflict with God - senses versus revelation.] for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh [who live by their five senses] cannot please God.
The flesh cannot please God because God is Spirit.
***************************************************************
263
Jeremiah 17 also points out the natural man?s inability to know God and matters associated with Him.
Jeremiah 17:5-8:
Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and [who] maketh flesh [the five senses] his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.
For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought; neither shall cease from yielding fruit.
The one man trusts in the arm of the flesh and the other trusts in God. The contrast is obvious.
***************************************************************
270
Ephesians 2:1:
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.
What does dead mean? Man appeared to be lively. He had body and soul, but was dead in trespasses and sins because he had no spirit. Psalms says that all men are conceived and born in sin. This does not mean that the parents were sinful in the way in which they had intercourse. Man is conceived and born in sin because he has no spirit.
Having only a body and soul, how does a natural man ever again have a connection with the spiritual realm? Spiritual things can only be known by the spirit, even as things in the natural realm can only be known by the five senses. Since natural man cannot know God, what is the bridge that spans the chasm between the natural man and God? The bridge is faith.
But natural man does not have faith because faith is a spiritual element. How then does he get faith to span that chasm?
***************************************************************
271
Before going further, let us clarify the difference between the two words "faith" and "believing." These two words are not synonymous though the King James and other translations have used them interchangeably. Faith is an inner spiritual development, while believing is an action of the human mind. The natural man of body and soul can believe; but the natural man cannot have faith.
Galatians 3:22:
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
The natural man of body and soul, the unsaved man, does not have faith. Faith is spiritual and the natural man cannot have it. But the man of body and soul can believe.
***************************************************************
284 ? 285
Anything that can be seen is in the category of the senses; and the things of the senses are always temporal. But that which you cannot see - the spirit of God, the faith of Jesus Christ, the righteousness of God, justification, sanctification - all these are the things which are eternal.
How can a man of body and soul get the faith of Jesus Christ? How can he get the justification of God, redemption and sanctification? The answer is simple. To receive all this from God we must do one thing - believe. The next question is: what are we to believe?
To answer this, we must first see what God wrought in Christ, which in turn Christ works within us as we of body and soul believe.
Jesus Christ was God's plan from the beginning to manifest God who is Spirit on the level of the senses so that sense-knowledge man might be redeemed. God in His foreknowledge knew that Adam and Eve would sin and that He would have to send His Son to redeem mankind. God, being consistent and law-abiding, had to work within a legal framework to redeem man. Since by man came sin and death, by man also would have to come the redemption from sin and death. Jesus Christ was a human being who physically had all the fundamental life processes and endured all things. Hebrews 4:15 says that He "... was in all points [things] tempted like as we are, yet without sin. "Jesus Christ was God's plan for manifestation in the senses world. John 14:9 records, "... he that [who] hath seen me hath seen the Father. "Jesus Christ manifested God in the world which understood only what it saw, heard, smelled, tasted or touched.
To understand God's manifesting Himself in the flesh through His Son, let us first see how God, Who is Spirit, could have a Son in the flesh. First of all, most people do not understand The Word, nor do they understand God and how He operates. They do not differentiate between the words "formed," "made," and "created," or "body," "soul," and "spirit. "If we do not understand these truths, it is impossible to understand how a woman could conceive by the power of God and bring forth the Lord Jesus Christ. The most enlightening verse on the conception and the bringing forth of the Lord Jesus Christ is in Hebrews.
***************************************************************
366
I and II Thessalonians stand by themselves because they speak about the return of Christ and the gathering together. Read the Epistles in the light which I have just shared and new vistas of understanding will become apparent to you.
***************************************************************
367
Ephesians 6:11, 12:
[You] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles [trickery]of the devil,
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places [from on high].
Our fight, our battle, is not with John Doe or our neighbor or the minister. Our fight is always a spiritual one encountering spiritual powers, wickedness and evil spirits who are trying to counterfeit God. ?We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual powers.?
Ephesians 6:13:
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all ... stand.
[This message was edited by Mike on June 16, 2003 at 16:44.]
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rascal
Pawtucket, I guess that you`d better alter the registration page of gspot to reflect whether or not the applicant is married or single, male or female, and then assign stars or marks by their name in order of their eligibility, respect, or credence their posts are to be given...
Better yet, I guess you`d better enclose permission slips for alla the married gals to get their hubby`s to sign and return before granting them permission to post!!!!
A most egregious oversighte ... one that should be corrected immediatly!
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CoolWaters
My husband didn't give me permission to show you all my boobs...so please, Pawtucket, don't ruin my fun!
;)-->
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Steve Lortz
Well, Mike has made it plain for every OLG who reads that his response to my question is an evasion rather than a blanked recognition.
Mike, YOU wrote this, "As we master and learn the 5-senses messages in those books, with repeated and thorough readings, we can turn our attention to hear God whisper to us the hidden messages HE, GOD, put in there that our 5-senses would never pick up. Also the 5-senses readings help us build protection against devilish doctrines that are all around out there. Our adversary can and will attempt to whisper wrong meanings to us as we work the Word."
YOU wrote it, Mike, YOU wrote it!
If you can't tell the difference between the whisperings of God and the whisperings of our adversary, then you don't have any business endorsing ANY particular interpretation of ANY meaning.
If you refuse to divulge the true source of your spiritual meanings, well... that speaks volumes in itself.
This question is not going to go away.
Love,
Steve
Oh... just one more thing... If you're having trouble with olfaction, you might consider what Paul had to say in II Corinthians 2:14-16, "Now thanks be unto God which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things."
If you really can't tell the difference between God's voice and our adversary's, Mike, I don't suppose we can expect you to tell the difference between the smell of death and the smell of life.
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alfakat
Mike: I own the SAME books, have read and re-read them umpteen times and could type the same pages--so????????????? you think that there is something NEW there that I did not understand 30 years ago and more??? ...
DON'T YOU DARE PRESUME TO SAY WHAT I KNOW AND UNDERSTAND, MIKE!!!! AM I F*CKING CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU???? ...
.... off, sea sprayer
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vickles
Alfakat,
I love it when you get mad...hehe
:D-->
Now mike, I know that you think we don't know anything but really I know personally I have worked and worked and worked those PFAL books till I was blue in the face. I was not a worshipper of vpw. All that you explain is not new to me. Nor to most of us here. We choose not to make it confining.
You have not answered my question and I have asked you a couple of times all ready. Could you please tell us if you are seeing those signs and miracles that we all saw in the 70's? I for one would love to hear of it. And your fellowship? Is the love being manifested like it was in the 70's? I'm not talking about yelling and getting in someone's face. I'm talking about working with people and seeing their lives change. Getting people born again and watching them grow? I don't think I'm asking so much. I would want to shout it off the rooftops if that was happening!!! So please I'm anxiously awaiting your answer because I would really want to hear of it.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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E. W. Bullinger
Dear Mike:
My post I left yesterday about you being a spiritual fraud was not a recent idea of mine. I have had this opinion of you for several months. I needed to say that because I see you up to your same dishonest posting habits. I know you consider that the bible is unreliable, but here is a verse that was taught in PFAL:
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal. II Cor 13:1
As a WOW I was taught that when we did outreach we were to answer people's honest questions. It is our duty to love people by teaching them the Word of God. You try to impress people with your educational background and years of study. When people ask you honest questions that are related to your posts your either evade the question (I'm too busy right now) or you say that their heart is not right and they have to master PFAL to get an answer. This is biblically dishonest.
I do not even know if I would be a practicing Christian today if it were not for my first twig coordinator who taught me advanced class material shortly after I first came to fellowship. So if you can not answer someone's honest question it either means that: 1) you do not have the answer, 2) you have the answer but you do not want to help them. You claim to have the answers so it must mean that you do not love us enough to answer them. You have become a sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal.
The bitter irony of this whole situation is that of all the people on this site I was your most likely candidate to seriously consider what you say. I am still thankful for my time with the Way ministry and I still believe most of what I was taught. So if you have managed to arouse my suspicions; what hope do you have to win the trust of those who were hurt by leadership?
Sadly I come to your threads to be entertained. I come to see what preposterous or idolatrous ideas you promote. The only good thing that has come out of this thread is that I can see the wonderful heart of some of the people who post here.
EWB
P.S. I asked you my question four or five times in my private e-mails to you. I have seen at least five other people ask the same question. If you did not answer it months ago, I doubt if you could answer it now.
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Mike
EWB,
I've been reading our e-mail correspondence to find your question. Are you talking about the question of where to fellowship? That looks like a bigggie to you, and I did try some answering, but I guess, not to your satisfaction.
I think another thing you were dissatisfied with me was that I answered something with a pre-written main letter body, and some tailored sentences to fit you. This seemed to insult you, although it wasn?t intended.
I sense a bit of immaturity in your manner of questioning, but I can live with that. I asked you if you had observed how busy I was answering questions here, and you didn?t answer me on that. Part of maturity is being able to put yourself in another?s shoes. It?s a difficult mental feat, and additionally requires the willingness to step OUT of your own.
I?d be happy to spend LOTS of time with you on honest questions that are received honestly. You seem impressed with those who have the ability to give out honest answers, but are you aware of how dishonestly you?ve received what I have to share? For you to get all huffy over me pasting in something that I thought would bless you, and that I had spent a lot of time on, to me is dishonest. For you to complain to me about a private e-mail matter is immature.
I suggest you get over your phobia for pasting and paste your question in a more retrievable place. For you to give hints as to what your big question is and expect me to research it out is immature. You can also always e-mail me with questions, but to publicly accuse me of not paying enough attention to you is childish. If you had done it privately, it?s still be a wrong accusation, but at least it would have been Biblical.
You see it?s dishonest of you to come here a with a descriptive handle of maturity, and a show of maturity in your speech, but in your interactions act childish.
So, now that we?re done scolding each other, let?s get back to the topics I find MUCH more enjoyable.
Instead of talking about me here, why not address the topic. Your private issue will get much higher priority form me if it were e-mailed.
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vickles
mike name calling again? Gosh if someone wanted to know something I had to share I wouldn't put them down. Its too bad you had to call him childish. Now why would you want to do that? Not fair mike.
Hey would you please answer my question? I would really want to know.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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Mike
alfakat,
Those postings of PFAL pages weren't for YOU!
I'm well aware of your great mastery. Those posts are to help Steve read with better understanding the enigmatic pages 23 and 24 of the Blue Book. Maybe you could give him a little help with them too.
I suggest that whenever you see my name on a post you get ready to hit that saving PgDn key, because I'm getting ready to post many more.
If I remember, I'll put up a little warning flag... just for you.
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Mike
Steve,
You are getting worked up over nothing. I?ve answered your question before her, and I?ll do it again.
The HOW of discerning God?s voice from devil spirits is contained within the quote of mine that you posted.
Here?s what you quoted of me: ?As we master and learn the 5-senses messages in those books, with repeated and thorough readings, we can turn our attention to hear God whisper to us the hidden messages HE, GOD, put in there that our 5-senses would never pick up. Also the 5-senses readings help us build protection against devilish doctrines that are all around out there. Our adversary can and will attempt to whisper wrong meanings to us as we work the Word.?
1. ?master and learn the 5-senses messages in those books?
2. ?the 5-senses readings help us build protection against devilish doctrines?
Dr told us MANY times that the only way to tell the difference between the counterfeit and the genuine is by MASTERING the genuine.
Come back to PFAL and the Voice of God will become more recognizable against the din of error.
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