Unfortunately, you misrepresented me to Fortunateone, maybe on purpose, but I?d like to think accidentally. That way you may feel different when I correct what you said about my message and stand.
You wrote: ?Mike here claims that vpw wrote for God and that his material is the *replacement* for a bible that is too worn out and outdated to be of much use to us in this day....?
I?d say it?s not a replacement for the Bible but a replacement for the traditional SOURCES from which we can GET the Bible.
I?d say that PFAL is more like an augmentation to modern Bible versions than a replacement, much like the ?many words added? that Jeremiah wrote by God?s instruction to replace a worn out (cut up and burned) scroll of God?s Word.
I?d say you also mischaracterize me in ?...a bible that is too worn out and outdated to be of much use to us in this day....? because I have OFTEN stated that I think modern Bible assemblages like the critical Greek texts, and translations and versions are of MUCH USE. Without them PFAL would make sense or have a foundation on which to rest.
I?d say that the Bible itself says that it will be outdated someday, at the Second Coming, when that which is perfect is come and that which in part is done away. I see PFAL as ushering us into the next administration because it?s time.
That's 4 misrepresentations in one sentence. Do you think it?s time for you to reevaluate your take on me?
"I accepted the Word Dr taught me from PFAL and in which I found verification from working my KJV in the good old days.
"I now accept the Word of God that has been freshly revealed to me in the PFAL writings."
*****
Mike,
You have presumptuously assumed the inspiration of PFAL--to which you have subordinated English Bible versions and historical biblical texts. In your presumption-laden spewings, you have even denied the doctrinal sufficiency of scriptural autographs.
"How many people can find a passage in the Bible that talks about 'free will'? What Dr taught us about 'free will' and 'foreknowledge' and many other subjects cannot be traced in the Bible. Dr got those things by revelation, not by tracking them in the Bible. There are many other items like this that I may someday write a letter about, but here I will mention one more untrackable item."
You obviously have not found, nor deem it necessary to find, biblical verification for what you have accepted as inspired and doctrinally authoritative from Wierwille.
You are no defender of biblical theism. You're the raving theological scion of a megalomaniacal heretic. It is your view that is (quite proudly) idiosyncratic and arbitrary..
*****
*****
*****
"The debate between the two perspectives will eventually work down to the level of one's ultimate authority. The presuppositional apologist realizes that every argument chain must end, and must end in a self-authenticating starting point. If the starting point is not self-authenticating, the chain just goes on and on. Every worldview has its unquestioned and its unquestionable assumptions, its primitive commitments. Religious debate is always a question of ultimate authority." -- Greg L. Bahnsen, "At War With the Word: The Necessity of Biblical Antithesis."
I actually do think "its time" for something new to happen. Seems quite clear. Administrations. Whatever you wanna call them. The specifics are fuzzier than ever, but the big picture sure is moving along and changing fast.
Truth seems, PFAL fails miserably to really address any of this.
I'll play.
So how can PFAL help now? Seems like an even newer revelation is in order. I mean, it has been about twenty years since the POP. We need another Paul to come along and usher us into the gathering together.
"I?d say that PFAL is like an augmentation to the Bible than a replacement, much like the ?many words added? that Jeremiah wrote by God?s instruction to replace a worn out (cut up and burned) scroll of God?s Word."
Kinda like the Mormon's huh, Smikeol? What's next, Holy Underwear? An isolated city out in Utah?
........ Donnie Osmond? Oh Gawd! Spare us please!!!!
You wrote: ?You obviously have not found, nor deem it necessary to find, biblical verification for what you have accepted as inspired and doctrinally authoritative from Wierwille.?
Yes I did find that necessary. It took me 27 years to complete this, to my satisfaction, before I decided to shift my focus from traditionally methods. I thought it was VERY important to be leery of Dr and rest heavily on the hand-me-downs of traditional scripture. It was only AFTER working this for 27 years that I swapped what I trusted most from traditional methods to PFAL.
When you say the opposite of this that I just stated of myself, and then you say this negation of fact is ?obvious,? it becomes obvious that you have not read all that I?ve written here.
You?re probably picking upo what is ?obviously? my set of beliefs from others as they mischaracterize me here. You are participating in ?mob rule? kind of thinking through these details. I suggest you stop this, and also that you try to talk plain English here. We?re just family here.
What I deem obvious about your view arises from what you have written.
Your claim to have biblically verified PFAL is inconsistent with other of your assertions, such as:
"How many people can find a passage in the Bible that talks about 'free will'? What Dr taught us about 'free will' and 'foreknowledge' and many other subjects cannot be traced in the Bible. Dr got those things by revelation, not by tracking them in the Bible. There are many other items like this that I may someday write a letter about, but here I will mention one more untrackable item."
One does not both find biblical verification for PFAL teachings and hold that they were divinely revealed to Wierwille and are biblically untrackable.
What you deem obvious about my view arises from the RECENT posts I have written. If your view was formed with a view toward thoroughness, you?d have read that this shift in my focus is relatively recent (5 years) and that the previous 27 years were spent in verification. I?ve written it here many times. You view on this element is partial and incorrect.
You then wrote: ?Your claim to have biblically verified PFAL is inconsistent with other of your assertions...? followed by some of my comments on free will. Maybe you didn?t understand them, though. I?ve stated that ?free will? as opposed to ?blind determinism? is not explained in the Bible. It?s understood, but not explained. There was no need in that non-machine age. Now there is, so God had Dr ?fill in the gaps? or ?flesh it out? from it?s bare-bone treatment in the Bible.
A similar thing exists with ?foreknowledge.?
There?s not an inconsistency here. It?s just that on some needed subjects, there?s more detail in PFAL.
You then CORRECTLY stated: ?One does not both find biblical verification for PFAL teachings and hold that they were divinely revealed to Wierwille and are biblically untrackable.?
Your error in application, though, is that it was before 1998 (coming back to PFAL) that I did my verification work. In this work I did not see anything on free will, even though I looked hard. I supposed I was just not a good enough researcher and that it was in there somewhere. Since then I have found that NOBODY can track free will in the Bible. It?s not explicit in this area, only implicit.
AFTER 1998 I saw that God, in PFAL, augments the ancient Scriptures to handle some things that were not so trackable before. Free will and foreknowledge are two. I did NOT see this in my verification stage.
Just to set the record straight, I maintain that NOW after 20 years, and COMPARED TO the massive blessings of God?s Word we have, the hurts of the past are RELATIVELY insignificant... or should be.
When these hurts happened they were entirely different, and if I were to wax eloquent on them I?d have said so convincingly. However, I chose to NOT look back to those hurts. Part of the healing is to place them in proper perspective. That?s VERY hard to do when they?re fresh, but they aren?t fresh anymore.
Refreshing the hurts of the past will not heal, only fester.
Oh contrair Mike, some damages are quite permanent...they CAN`T be fixed....and for YOU to relegate it to unimportance simply because YOU got *blessed* by vp`s *borrowed* teachings flies against everything the bible teaches about treatment of our bretheren....and is unconscionable...
The simple fact that vp WAS so selfish and destructive shows EXACTLY what kind of man he was...
Galations chapter 5 condemns vpw`s actions as those of a man of the flesh ....it says it ALL mike, the scriptures there identify vp to a t... , and they warn us against such as he.
The fact that he managed to do some good, in the midst of the carnage he created isn`t going to outweigh the bad...isn`t gonna change him from being a man of the flesh....
He is convicted by the very scriptures he set such credence in Mike, if you had the courage to honestly read galations...you would see that.
(insert daunting combat music from that Star Trek, the Next Generation episode "The Best of Both Worlds" here)
Captain Cynic of the U.S.S. starship John Calvin has engaged ..... Smikeol of Borg!
:D-->
Now *this* is a battle of wits that should really crank up the entertainment value of this thread that is already running the risk of collapsing under its own weight. One thing for sure, it will ensure that this thread will in no wise expire for lack of participation by these two fine contestants. The only question is (and one which I would be all to willing to take $$bets$$ on ;)-->) who will outlast the other?
Gs is the place where those who can not or chose to not get over their hurts from twi hang out.
You know we do not have to get over anything.
I also got hurt real bad in twi on a very personal level.
I never blamed twi never thought I could till I found this web site.
Even the off shoot I attended never addressed the bad things that happened to innocent people .
mostly just doctrinal disagreements.
MIKE this is where people go to find out they are not alone, that it wasnt just them thrown out and used and abused.
this is the soft place for hearts ripped apart by the very stuff you think will make life grand again.
pfal is vpw you admit that, why do you refuse to understand that GS is an anitway site?
It isnt just a place to play doctrine games (go to an offshoot) or to play tit for tat on who is the most wise or stupid for getting involved with the way international.
Some one posted a link for those who want to fellowship with the pfal books and their teachings, yet you do not go there or go to where you can be accpeted and loved for what you believe.
You come here to a place where people learn they are ok after a truama has inflicted them , a place they can begin to heal.
you wonder why its get so personal with you? how personal is it to have the only place you can go and talk with others you believe understand the pain and hurt caused to your life and there in the middle of it is an idiot calling you a less human and a less christian because it happened to you.
where eles can they go?
your a cruel person Mike. a twisted person acting like you are part of group but planning every word on telling them they are wrong and not good enough.
i was told by twi I wasnt good enough and so you play this cat and mouse game of I love you but God says you need to get over this problem ....and come back to pfal.
who and what does that EXACTLY sound like to you?
twi must have done something to your mind for you to come to gs and play with peoples head like this.
I know of thousands of sites that promote pfal yet you chose to come to the one place those who need understanding about leaving it behind can go. To tell them they are wrong and evil and god doesnt love them.
this is a place of fellowship for victims trying to recover without pfal messing up their minds.
who the hell do you think you are?
you are a dam sick person, to come here to an antiway site and play this .
These people do not need pfal they need one another and the love and compassion a common heart can bring.
So what it isnt your agenda who asked you to bring it here? it is plainly a antiway forum.
Why cant you get along with your own peers?
Why must you come to a place where people find comfort and healing without pfal and demand they conform to it ?
I think you got hurt and you must continue to hurt those that hurt you, this olg idea cripes hey are your enemy hmm? talk about moving on Mike how about it? why not go to a place where you wont hurt people or is thatyour agenda after all??
If people wanted pfal or the way international or bible instruction gs has links available . and a quick search would produce hundreds in and of itself. So your not doing what you claim , your here to hurt those trying to move on trying to find others who can understand what they have been through . You do not want to understand you do not even believe the victims so why are you here? to hurt them to play with their heads. You are the reason twi failed you truly have no compassion for people and only care for pfal at least vpw made some money in the process, you do it for some sick thrill of getting back at those You think failed You some how these olgs or whatever will listen to YOU now.
They didnt listen you do not listen now you have created a little world you live in alone to the point you come to gs and anti way site to harrass.
Why not get involved with your own kind?
you cant because your agenda isnt one of like mindedness or pfal or bible it is one of destroying those you understand to have destroyed the very thing you lived and breath for.
why would a sane person go to an aniti way site and promote its founder? pure hate for those he thinks took it away from him . We blew it!
you stupid idiot YOU BLEW IT ! if not then why not get involved in the pfal people that want to think like you do? They do not think like you your a twisted man bent on hurting others.
you will never leave this site you love what your doing your doing it for God after all arent you? or for vpw same thing in your mind.
your guilty of taking a site that people need to hear about and turning it into your own agenda of promoting the very thing that destoyed their life.
WHY?
So what it didnt happen to you it happened to the people here and you can come in and be a bully for your god and make them change their minds about what they think says who?
do not listen to this bully called Mike he wishes he ever had a mike. wishes do not always come true do they mike?
It is the freaking borg . I am NOT to be assimulated,the captain Jesus christ loves me and restorded me and will help me understand this world I was born into as a child of God ,
"Your error in application, though, is that it was before 1998 (coming back to PFAL) that I did my verification work. In this work I did not see anything on free will, even though I looked hard. I supposed I was just not a good enough researcher and that it was in there somewhere."
*****
Mike,
If the above assertion is correct, your sloppily worded claim (quoted following this sentence) to having found biblical verification for PFAL is not possibly categorical of PFAL.
"I accepted the Word Dr taught me from PFAL and in which I found verification from working my KJV in the good old days."
What do you care about verification, anyway, Mike?
Your championing of PFAL and the false teacher V. P. Wierwille has involved denigrating English Bible versions, historical biblical texts and the doctrinal sufficiency of Scripture.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
82
119
656
81
Popular Days
Jun 15
86
Jul 3
73
Jul 12
50
Mar 31
49
Top Posters In This Topic
Raf 82 posts
mj412 119 posts
Mike 656 posts
Steve Lortz 81 posts
Popular Days
Jun 15 2003
86 posts
Jul 3 2003
73 posts
Jul 12 2003
50 posts
Mar 31 2003
49 posts
Popular Posts
Yanagisawa
Did you say "get the ball rolling" or get the kaballa rolling...for it sounds like that's your current freak - some sort of hidden, mystical kaballa-esque gnostic esotericism. I'm fascinated with you
Mike
Meg Ryan?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
that's ok.
I've shot off about a hundred posts on you.
Maybe this thread will reach critical mass and explode soon.
Would you go down in a blaze of glory, Mike? If faced with that choice?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
I was thinking Michael Pfeifer, myself.
Maybe Uma Thurman.
She cuts off your master's head with a sword to free you from him, and also to save you from the mob.
(Funny thing is, now I'm thinking of story I wrote two years ago. It just kinda fits the pun, thus far.)
Wanna read it? Its kinda juvenile.
Needs serious revision before I sent it for publication again.
btw - Do you eat spiders leg by leg then pop the belly in yer mouth, or do you just crunch the whole thing at once?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Sign me up.
.
.
.
.
(Uma goodness!)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
rascal,
Unfortunately, you misrepresented me to Fortunateone, maybe on purpose, but I?d like to think accidentally. That way you may feel different when I correct what you said about my message and stand.
You wrote: ?Mike here claims that vpw wrote for God and that his material is the *replacement* for a bible that is too worn out and outdated to be of much use to us in this day....?
I?d say it?s not a replacement for the Bible but a replacement for the traditional SOURCES from which we can GET the Bible.
I?d say that PFAL is more like an augmentation to modern Bible versions than a replacement, much like the ?many words added? that Jeremiah wrote by God?s instruction to replace a worn out (cut up and burned) scroll of God?s Word.
I?d say you also mischaracterize me in ?...a bible that is too worn out and outdated to be of much use to us in this day....? because I have OFTEN stated that I think modern Bible assemblages like the critical Greek texts, and translations and versions are of MUCH USE. Without them PFAL would make sense or have a foundation on which to rest.
I?d say that the Bible itself says that it will be outdated someday, at the Second Coming, when that which is perfect is come and that which in part is done away. I see PFAL as ushering us into the next administration because it?s time.
That's 4 misrepresentations in one sentence. Do you think it?s time for you to reevaluate your take on me?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Did fortunateone get trampled?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cynic
Mike wrote,
"No, I have not rejected God's Word.
"I have rejected YOUR point of view."
Mike also wrote,
"I accepted the Word Dr taught me from PFAL and in which I found verification from working my KJV in the good old days.
"I now accept the Word of God that has been freshly revealed to me in the PFAL writings."
*****
Mike,
You have presumptuously assumed the inspiration of PFAL--to which you have subordinated English Bible versions and historical biblical texts. In your presumption-laden spewings, you have even denied the doctrinal sufficiency of scriptural autographs.
In a previous post on another thread you wrote:
"How many people can find a passage in the Bible that talks about 'free will'? What Dr taught us about 'free will' and 'foreknowledge' and many other subjects cannot be traced in the Bible. Dr got those things by revelation, not by tracking them in the Bible. There are many other items like this that I may someday write a letter about, but here I will mention one more untrackable item."
You obviously have not found, nor deem it necessary to find, biblical verification for what you have accepted as inspired and doctrinally authoritative from Wierwille.
You are no defender of biblical theism. You're the raving theological scion of a megalomaniacal heretic. It is your view that is (quite proudly) idiosyncratic and arbitrary..
*****
*****
*****
"The debate between the two perspectives will eventually work down to the level of one's ultimate authority. The presuppositional apologist realizes that every argument chain must end, and must end in a self-authenticating starting point. If the starting point is not self-authenticating, the chain just goes on and on. Every worldview has its unquestioned and its unquestionable assumptions, its primitive commitments. Religious debate is always a question of ultimate authority." -- Greg L. Bahnsen, "At War With the Word: The Necessity of Biblical Antithesis."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
Mike,
I actually do think "its time" for something new to happen. Seems quite clear. Administrations. Whatever you wanna call them. The specifics are fuzzier than ever, but the big picture sure is moving along and changing fast.
Truth seems, PFAL fails miserably to really address any of this.
I'll play.
So how can PFAL help now? Seems like an even newer revelation is in order. I mean, it has been about twenty years since the POP. We need another Paul to come along and usher us into the gathering together.
You, perhaps?
(tapping)
Cynic,
That sure was a clean cut. nice.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
"I?d say that PFAL is like an augmentation to the Bible than a replacement, much like the ?many words added? that Jeremiah wrote by God?s instruction to replace a worn out (cut up and burned) scroll of God?s Word."
Kinda like the Mormon's huh, Smikeol? What's next, Holy Underwear? An isolated city out in Utah?
........ Donnie Osmond?
Oh Gawd! Spare us please!!!!
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
cynic,
You wrote: ?You obviously have not found, nor deem it necessary to find, biblical verification for what you have accepted as inspired and doctrinally authoritative from Wierwille.?
Yes I did find that necessary. It took me 27 years to complete this, to my satisfaction, before I decided to shift my focus from traditionally methods. I thought it was VERY important to be leery of Dr and rest heavily on the hand-me-downs of traditional scripture. It was only AFTER working this for 27 years that I swapped what I trusted most from traditional methods to PFAL.
When you say the opposite of this that I just stated of myself, and then you say this negation of fact is ?obvious,? it becomes obvious that you have not read all that I?ve written here.
You?re probably picking upo what is ?obviously? my set of beliefs from others as they mischaracterize me here. You are participating in ?mob rule? kind of thinking through these details. I suggest you stop this, and also that you try to talk plain English here. We?re just family here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
sirguessalot,
It's your partial perception of PFAL that fails miserably to really address any of this.
As you GET the full PFAL perspective, THEN you'll see what it addresses.
I see the change of administrations all over the place here. Someday soon we'll have to do a thread on it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Garth,
If you sell all your possessions and give me the money...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cynic
Mike,
What I deem obvious about your view arises from what you have written.
Your claim to have biblically verified PFAL is inconsistent with other of your assertions, such as:
"How many people can find a passage in the Bible that talks about 'free will'? What Dr taught us about 'free will' and 'foreknowledge' and many other subjects cannot be traced in the Bible. Dr got those things by revelation, not by tracking them in the Bible. There are many other items like this that I may someday write a letter about, but here I will mention one more untrackable item."
One does not both find biblical verification for PFAL teachings and hold that they were divinely revealed to Wierwille and are biblically untrackable.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
cynic,
What you deem obvious about my view arises from the RECENT posts I have written. If your view was formed with a view toward thoroughness, you?d have read that this shift in my focus is relatively recent (5 years) and that the previous 27 years were spent in verification. I?ve written it here many times. You view on this element is partial and incorrect.
You then wrote: ?Your claim to have biblically verified PFAL is inconsistent with other of your assertions...? followed by some of my comments on free will. Maybe you didn?t understand them, though. I?ve stated that ?free will? as opposed to ?blind determinism? is not explained in the Bible. It?s understood, but not explained. There was no need in that non-machine age. Now there is, so God had Dr ?fill in the gaps? or ?flesh it out? from it?s bare-bone treatment in the Bible.
A similar thing exists with ?foreknowledge.?
There?s not an inconsistency here. It?s just that on some needed subjects, there?s more detail in PFAL.
You then CORRECTLY stated: ?One does not both find biblical verification for PFAL teachings and hold that they were divinely revealed to Wierwille and are biblically untrackable.?
Your error in application, though, is that it was before 1998 (coming back to PFAL) that I did my verification work. In this work I did not see anything on free will, even though I looked hard. I supposed I was just not a good enough researcher and that it was in there somewhere. Since then I have found that NOBODY can track free will in the Bible. It?s not explicit in this area, only implicit.
AFTER 1998 I saw that God, in PFAL, augments the ancient Scriptures to handle some things that were not so trackable before. Free will and foreknowledge are two. I did NOT see this in my verification stage.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
rascal,
Just to set the record straight, I maintain that NOW after 20 years, and COMPARED TO the massive blessings of God?s Word we have, the hurts of the past are RELATIVELY insignificant... or should be.
When these hurts happened they were entirely different, and if I were to wax eloquent on them I?d have said so convincingly. However, I chose to NOT look back to those hurts. Part of the healing is to place them in proper perspective. That?s VERY hard to do when they?re fresh, but they aren?t fresh anymore.
Refreshing the hurts of the past will not heal, only fester.
Let?s let them fade as they are supposed to.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Mike my WHOLE *take* on you is clearly stated in my post before last read it......YOU are promoting a maggot, and his lies.
You are decieved and are attempting to lead others into a the ditch .... blindman.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Oh contrair Mike, some damages are quite permanent...they CAN`T be fixed....and for YOU to relegate it to unimportance simply because YOU got *blessed* by vp`s *borrowed* teachings flies against everything the bible teaches about treatment of our bretheren....and is unconscionable...
The simple fact that vp WAS so selfish and destructive shows EXACTLY what kind of man he was...
Galations chapter 5 condemns vpw`s actions as those of a man of the flesh ....it says it ALL mike, the scriptures there identify vp to a t... , and they warn us against such as he.
The fact that he managed to do some good, in the midst of the carnage he created isn`t going to outweigh the bad...isn`t gonna change him from being a man of the flesh....
He is convicted by the very scriptures he set such credence in Mike, if you had the courage to honestly read galations...you would see that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
WARNING
THOUGHT-STOPPER ALERT
60 SECONDS TO IMPACT
You sound like a zombie slave from mars.
Either that, or the Matrix has you.
failure detected in primary module:PFAL
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
bleep bleep bleep
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
compiling data
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
bleep bleep bleep
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
does not apply
does not apply
discard
discard
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
bleep bleep bleep
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
dichotomy breach...dichotomy breach
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
bleep bleep bleep
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
emotional override activated
reponse scheduled
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
bleep bleep bleep
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
information leak detected
repair scheduled
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
bleep bleep bleep
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
OLG detected
analyzing target
evaluation complete
repair scheduled
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
bleep bleep bleep
bzzzzt.tic.tic.tic....PFAL....PFAL.....
statements of absolution verified
statements of absolution published
all else denied
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
(insert daunting combat music from that Star Trek, the Next Generation episode "The Best of Both Worlds" here)
Captain Cynic of the U.S.S. starship John Calvin has engaged ..... Smikeol of Borg!
Now *this* is a battle of wits that should really crank up the entertainment value of this thread that is already running the risk of collapsing under its own weight. One thing for sure, it will ensure that this thread will in no wise expire for lack of participation by these two fine contestants. The only question is (and one which I would be all to willing to take $$bets$$ on
;)-->) who will outlast the other?
Let the polemic mud slinging--errr, debate begin!
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
Mike
you need to listen.
Gs is the place where those who can not or chose to not get over their hurts from twi hang out.
You know we do not have to get over anything.
I also got hurt real bad in twi on a very personal level.
I never blamed twi never thought I could till I found this web site.
Even the off shoot I attended never addressed the bad things that happened to innocent people .
mostly just doctrinal disagreements.
MIKE this is where people go to find out they are not alone, that it wasnt just them thrown out and used and abused.
this is the soft place for hearts ripped apart by the very stuff you think will make life grand again.
pfal is vpw you admit that, why do you refuse to understand that GS is an anitway site?
It isnt just a place to play doctrine games (go to an offshoot) or to play tit for tat on who is the most wise or stupid for getting involved with the way international.
Some one posted a link for those who want to fellowship with the pfal books and their teachings, yet you do not go there or go to where you can be accpeted and loved for what you believe.
You come here to a place where people learn they are ok after a truama has inflicted them , a place they can begin to heal.
you wonder why its get so personal with you? how personal is it to have the only place you can go and talk with others you believe understand the pain and hurt caused to your life and there in the middle of it is an idiot calling you a less human and a less christian because it happened to you.
where eles can they go?
your a cruel person Mike. a twisted person acting like you are part of group but planning every word on telling them they are wrong and not good enough.
i was told by twi I wasnt good enough and so you play this cat and mouse game of I love you but God says you need to get over this problem ....and come back to pfal.
who and what does that EXACTLY sound like to you?
twi must have done something to your mind for you to come to gs and play with peoples head like this.
I know of thousands of sites that promote pfal yet you chose to come to the one place those who need understanding about leaving it behind can go. To tell them they are wrong and evil and god doesnt love them.
this is a place of fellowship for victims trying to recover without pfal messing up their minds.
who the hell do you think you are?
you are a dam sick person, to come here to an antiway site and play this .
These people do not need pfal they need one another and the love and compassion a common heart can bring.
So what it isnt your agenda who asked you to bring it here? it is plainly a antiway forum.
Why cant you get along with your own peers?
Why must you come to a place where people find comfort and healing without pfal and demand they conform to it ?
I think you got hurt and you must continue to hurt those that hurt you, this olg idea cripes hey are your enemy hmm? talk about moving on Mike how about it? why not go to a place where you wont hurt people or is thatyour agenda after all??
If people wanted pfal or the way international or bible instruction gs has links available . and a quick search would produce hundreds in and of itself. So your not doing what you claim , your here to hurt those trying to move on trying to find others who can understand what they have been through . You do not want to understand you do not even believe the victims so why are you here? to hurt them to play with their heads. You are the reason twi failed you truly have no compassion for people and only care for pfal at least vpw made some money in the process, you do it for some sick thrill of getting back at those You think failed You some how these olgs or whatever will listen to YOU now.
They didnt listen you do not listen now you have created a little world you live in alone to the point you come to gs and anti way site to harrass.
Why not get involved with your own kind?
you cant because your agenda isnt one of like mindedness or pfal or bible it is one of destroying those you understand to have destroyed the very thing you lived and breath for.
why would a sane person go to an aniti way site and promote its founder? pure hate for those he thinks took it away from him . We blew it!
you stupid idiot YOU BLEW IT ! if not then why not get involved in the pfal people that want to think like you do? They do not think like you your a twisted man bent on hurting others.
you will never leave this site you love what your doing your doing it for God after all arent you? or for vpw same thing in your mind.
your guilty of taking a site that people need to hear about and turning it into your own agenda of promoting the very thing that destoyed their life.
WHY?
So what it didnt happen to you it happened to the people here and you can come in and be a bully for your god and make them change their minds about what they think says who?
do not listen to this bully called Mike he wishes he ever had a mike. wishes do not always come true do they mike?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
LOL
sirguessalot!!!!!
What a fact no hidden message there!
the man is out of his mind and cruel.
It is the freaking borg . I am NOT to be assimulated,the captain Jesus christ loves me and restorded me and will help me understand this world I was born into as a child of God ,
love
5 of at best a few hundred in a cult.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cynic
Mike wrote,
"Your error in application, though, is that it was before 1998 (coming back to PFAL) that I did my verification work. In this work I did not see anything on free will, even though I looked hard. I supposed I was just not a good enough researcher and that it was in there somewhere."
*****
Mike,
If the above assertion is correct, your sloppily worded claim (quoted following this sentence) to having found biblical verification for PFAL is not possibly categorical of PFAL.
"I accepted the Word Dr taught me from PFAL and in which I found verification from working my KJV in the good old days."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cynic
What do you care about verification, anyway, Mike?
Your championing of PFAL and the false teacher V. P. Wierwille has involved denigrating English Bible versions, historical biblical texts and the doctrinal sufficiency of Scripture.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Fortunateone,
Ok, I'm going to try to summarize everything
for the latecomers.
WORDWOLF'S SUMMARY OF THE ACTION SO FAR:
========================================
========================================
========================================
(Going in chronological order)
God issues Bible
Several centuries later, various men of God
challenge the established positions of
traditional Christianity.
Also, several men announce they have special
revelation from God and they are the sole
source of knowledge from God.
Various men of God continue to do what God
wants thru the ages.
In the 19th century, EW Bullinger comes along,
writing many books on Bible research.
In the 20th century, EW Kenyon writes several
books on God's love and our relationship to
Him.
JE Stiles teaches on the holy spirit field,
writing his book "Gifts of the SPirit".
BG Leonard writes many books and teaches many
classes on God and the Bible.
Victor Paul Wierwille goes thru various schools
in his education, some of questionable
pedigree.
Victor Paul Wierwille encounters the writings
of EW Bullinger. VPW encounters JE Stiles, and
is taught by him personally. VPW takes BG
Leonard's class.
VPW begins teaching his classes, where he
claims he cast aside all other theology books
and outside sources, and consulted privately
with God and God only, the results of which
included his PFAL class.
The body of the materials entirely matches
information seen in BG Leonard's class which
VPW took, with some additions from Stiles and
Bullinger. The collateral book "Receiving the
Holy Spirit Today" seems to be a rewriting
of Stiles book. VPW also write the "Studies
in Abundant Living", which also seem to mirror
some of Kenyon's books.
VPW claims that in 1942, God promised him that
if he would teach God's Word like it hadn't
been known since the First Century, if he would
teach it to others.
VPW builds TWI, a ministry claiming to be the
only Christians to truly understand and teach
the Bible in the 20th century like they did
in the first century. (Their lack of resemblance
to the first century church is never brought
up.) The key engine of this group is the PFAL
classes, which claim to be classes on KEYS to
understanding the Bible, "the revealed Word and
Will of God", to quote the cornerstone of
Session One.
Time progresses. The organization, under VPW,
steadily organizes all its activities so that
headquarters controls everything. VPW
organizes headquartes so that his POV entirely
prevails at headquarters.
According to many women, during this time
period, VPW, while the absolute temporal leader
of TWI, committed various acts of rape,
molestation, sodomy, etc. on them and other
women. These charges are buried until the
internet makes communication easy.
During this time, various leaders point out
various sins and errors in leadership. These
leaders are kicked out and buried until the
internet makes communication easy.
In the early 1980s, VPW hand-picks LCM to
succeed him as absolute leader of TWI. In the
mid 1980's VPW dies.
In the remainder of the 1980's and 1990s,
various problems and issues escalate in TWI.
In the 1990's, the internet makes it easy for
hushed ex-members to compare notes and see
what was hidden from them.
First Waydale and then the GreaseSpotCafe are
founded, allowing increased communication and
providing information and a place to recover
and get closure for ex-twi survivors.
In the early 2000's, Mike arrives at GSC.
Mike announces that, due to the Bible being now
useless due to corruptions over 2000 years,
God gave entirely NEW revelation to VPW in the
20th century. PFAL and the collateral readings
are the vehicle for the new revelation, which
entirely supercedes the Bible. In 1942, God
promised it would be so. Mike says that if we
"master" those materials, we will reach the
mystical plateau some of us thought TWI would
provide, seeing amazing revelation from God
and demonstrations of His power. This will be
dependent on memorization of those books, the
refusal to consider any evidence of error in
them, and the seeking out and finding of
"hidden messages" from God larded thru the
books all these years. According to Mike, VPW
was a genius mentally, and physically, an
incredible specimen. VPW was not actually
perfect, but most claims of his sins are bogus,
and those that ARE real should be disregarded,
as the end (super-God revelation for the 20th
century!) justifies the means (molestations,
abuses, etc.). Besides, any other Christian
leader would have left a similar trail of
abuses, rapes, etc., so we should be thankful
we at least got God's amazing superrevelation in
the process.
ALL Christians outside of TWI are essentially
no-nothings, perhaps well-meaning, but, lacking
the special documents of pfal, vpw and twi,
they just can't measure up. They only have the
Bible to rely on, which is error-ridden and
mere tattered fragments of what God meant to
tell us.
----------------------------------------------
On this thread, posts have largely alternated
between Mike proselytizing his message,
rebuttals, responses, and outrage from the
respondents, and Mike's responses that anyone
who doesn't fall in line with his theology is
rejecting God, and being intellectually
dishonest, and seeking to set themselves
against the declared revelation of God
Almighty.
This includes his own disapproval of the
various "summaries" and "updates" by WordWolf,
who, according to Mike, keeps misrepresenting
Mike's message, and is an unfit steward of
God, and is incapable of reading vpw's books
with understanding.
That will certainly include THIS update.
That's the shortest summary of Mike I can
give, but many others here will certainly point
out the things I've left out.
==============================================
==============================================
==============================================
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.