quote:I have a question. I've forgotten twi's answer on this. How in the world did they get the fruit of the garden and eating the apple that eve was masturbating? Now if that is a change of words I don't know what is!!!! Just my opinion anyways.
Vickles. This was of course an error on Wierwilles part. Craig straigtend it all out for us out when he taught that Eve had lesbian sex with the serpent. What Adam did is still somewhat unclear but he most likely just joined in with Eve and the serpent because he said "I did eat." We all know what that means. --- Context people! - Context!
I remember that we were told not to guess what the fruit was - just because most people assume it's an apple was insufficient authority for it being that.
So grateful for LCM "discovering" what it really was! Hmm the serpent is supposed to be the Adversary right? On that logic Satan is a lesbian! The serpent is not normally a female symbol though. Also did not Adam "love the little woman so much that he just went along and ate of it too"? Now how could Adam have had lesbian sex? The mind boggles!
Mike - In a previous post I wrote, "How can a person distinguish between information that is coming from the holy spirit and information that is coming from demonic sources? Or in other words, how can a person detect counterfeit manifestations of the spirit?
You replied in part, "This question of yours is at the heart of why things went so wrong in TVT and the meltdown and the early splinters, when so many good and powerful people had holy spirit and a lot of knowledge, yet were powerless to handle it. Solving this detection problem would sure be a boon, wouldn't it!"
You also wrote, "Jesus Christ received revelation from the devil in the wilderness... Because he had mastered God's written Word he recognized that these revelations were from the wrong source and rejected them."
You have solved the detection problem, Mike. If we compare a person's or spirit's words with the Word of God that Jesus quoted, and those words don't line up, then the source of those words is ultimately demonic.
Back in '87, when I was trying to make sense out of what was going on in TWI the Lord pointed out to me two passages of the Word of God,
Isaiah 9:16 "For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.
17 "Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for everyone is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still."
Jeremiah 23:9 "My heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the Lord, and because of the words of his holiness.
10 "For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.
11 "For both prophet and priest are profane [hypocrites]; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord.
12 "Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the Lord.
13 "And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal and caused my people Israel to err.
14 "I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorah.
15 "Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness [hypocrisy] gone forth into all the land.
16 "Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord."
The Word of God doesn't say that the people erred because they had not mastered revelation. It says the *leaders* caused them to err. And it doesn't except any. The Way didn't implode because the followers didn't master PFAL. The Way collapsed because it's leaders (including Wierwille) taught their followers by example to practice hypocrisy, to do evil, and to speak folly.
Our hearts were broken because the Way became full of adulterers, whose pleasant places dried up, whose course was evil, and whose force was not right. Because the leaders, from Wierwille on down, were hypocrites.
God found wickedness in the Way, and He is bringing it down. God saw folly in the Way because the leaders, including Wierwille, committed adultery, and walked in lies. They strengthened the hands of evildoers, and they still haven't returned from their wickedness. God is going to make them eat crow, because from *them* hypocrisy has gone throughout the Way.
God tells us we are not to listen to them, or to "master" their writings. Those things make us worthless because Wierwille and his imitators spoke visions out of their own hearts, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.
If a spirit being is encouraging you, Mike, to abandon the Word of God that Jesus Christ quoted from, and to adhere to the words of an adulterous hypocrite, that being is a demon masquerading as holy spirit.
That demon has had a chokehold on your thinking ever since the day five years ago when you decided to close your mind to truth.
It's not too late. That demon will have to leave you if you turn back to truth.
I have a question. I've forgotten twi's answer on this. How in the world did they get the fruit of the garden and eating the apple that eve was masturbating? Now if that is a change of words I don't know what is!!!! Just my opinion anyways.
It was a convulted piece of illogic:
Eve ate of the fruit of the tree. People are somewhere refered to figuratively as trees and the part of the person that bears the fruit is the genitalia, and groves are trees cut into the shape of a penis...so...voila, the original sin of mankind was maturbation!
This was in Christian Family and Sex, which had no syllabus, and I'm not 100% sure of my memory, but if it was any clearer than that, I would be VERY surprised!
For a while I thought I was just missing something, but anyone I asked for an explanation just mumbled and repeated Wierwille's incomprehensible explanation.
Oakspear
"We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling"
IIRC, he claimed the word "desired" in Gen 3:6 ...
Genesis 3:6: And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
was also the same Aramaic word that meant "to be sexually desired". He joked that instead of an apple, a banana might be closer to the truth... -->
Our Limb leader disclaimed the original sin segment of CF&S before he aired it. He said there were some things in the segment that were highly questionable, and based on very thin evidence.
How dare he question the Holy Blessed Doctor (praise be unto him)? --> No wonder he refused to go along with LCM's loyalty ultimatum... ;)-->
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
Very good. John 10:10 is from an unreliable remnant. Wierwille's revelation is "fresher" and therefore cannot be construed as changing a word. It is a modern day "original".
But, according to Mike, only folks who can understand Wierwillian English have any chance at mastery of the Word of God. Translating PFAL into another language would, according to Mike, render it void of authority and no longer the Word of God. Word changing only applies to PFAL - the true Word. Who cares about those unreliable remnants?
_Goey_
[This message was edited by Goey on April 25, 2003 at 13:15.]
Goey: Um, okay, help me out here. If the Bible is just unreliable remnants, why would the Holy Blessed Doctor (praise be unto him) even bother with using them to fill the Holy Orange Testament (praise be unto it)? Surely the words of the Holy Blessed Doctor (praise be unto him) are pure unto themselves and need no support from lesser non-present truth?
Someone has put one of Holy Blessed Doctor's (praise be unto him) handwritten manuscripts up on eBay. How much should I pay for the Holy Blessed Grocery List (grapes be upon it)???
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
quote:Goey: Um, okay, help me out here. If the Bible is just unreliable remnants, why would the Holy Blessed Doctor (praise be unto him) even bother with using them to fill the Holy Orange Testament (praise be unto it)? Surely the words of the Holy Blessed Doctor (praise be unto him) are pure unto themselves and need no support from lesser non-present truth?
Good question Zix. But we must trust that the Good Doctor knew what he was doing when he included and "seemed" to rely upon these unreliable remnants in all of his writings. The keyword here is "seemed." This is only an aparant dichotomy - AD. (a figure of speech) FOS. which only "appears" to be highlight what is important. Besides this AD/FOS is in the senses realm of our understanding and as such is insignicficant. We really need not ask this question.
quote:Someone has put one of Holy Blessed Doctor's (praise be unto him) handwritten manuscripts up on eBay. How much should I pay for the Holy Blessed Grocery List (grapes be upon it)???
I think that a buck, two ninety-eight would be a steal at any price.
So I'm away at court for only ONE day, and you all have strewn all this trash around, and tracked in all this mud on MY CLEAN FLOORS! And I JUST cleaned them, you ungrateful hooligans! If your Father wasn't the creator of the heavens and earth... I'd have half a mind to.... OH, NEVER mind!
My, oh MY! What AM I going to do with you all?
Well you can all just go to your rooms, and I'll have to get busy cleaning this place up AGAIN! There's posts just all over the place, and I hardly know where to begin.
I can't wait to see the day when you all are mature enough clean up your own mess.
Appear soon Lord! Appear SOON!
Well, I guess I got my work cut out for me for a while again. And tomorrow's another day.
I go away from this thread for a few days, and LOOK what you've done with it! You really let your scholarship wander all over the place. I'm going to have to clean you up...
You said, talking to Goey:
quote:You continued: ?It is clear that the word "agape" was in common use some 300 or so years before Pentecost. Agape "love" was not absent before Pentecost.?
How sure are you that it?s not words SIMILAR to agape? I have another vague and old memory that Paul coined the term himself? I remember it like a Bible dictionary or something non-TWI.
What your "vague memory" is recalling is that there were some early church fathers that thought that JESUS had "invented" the word agape to coin something that had never existed before; however, that has long since been proven to be incorrect, as that word appears in other literature of the period, as well as the LXX.
Wow, I never rely on your vague memories as proof of anything!
Goey,
What's he gonna do with that "data?" Ignore it, apparently. You didn't have enough agape in your heart when you approached the topic. Tsk, tsk.
At least I ADMITTED it was vague memory. Plus I DID show how it could be handled.
This data was not ignored, but it's not been totally accepted either. Just because someone states something on my computer screen, I don't immediately accept it as proved. Even seeing printed in a book or three isn't the final word on a subject.
I take years sifting through these things. This one has been filed away in the appropriate place for future work.
quote:This data was not ignored, but it's not been totally accepted either. Just because someone states something on my computer screen, I don't immediately accept it as proved. Even seeing printed in a book or three isn't the final word on a subject.
I take years sifting through these things. This one has been filed away in the appropriate place for future work.
Mike, what a crock. Even if 100 of the best Greek scholars in the world presonally showed you how that "agape" was in use prior to Pentecost, you would not accept it, because it disagrees with what Wierwille taught.
But, you did indeed showed how is "could" be handled - with intellectual dishonesty.
Sadly, it is Wierwille and your own interpretation of his works that is your only standard for truth. This is the only "final word" that you accept. Not good Mike - not good at all. It is the epitomy of intellectual dishonesty.
Well folks, it appears that Smikeol is obviously losing his game, as well as whatever bull.... he uses to make it sound ((cough)) 'logical'. Now he is reduced to complaining about the mess we made on his floor and more of his now-obvious dodging.
I?m almost back to posting replies to the accumulated posts. In reading over the pages I picked out one quick response I can do now.
Tonight I may post the last part in ?The Love Way? and that is the part that has the hottest hot buttons. I think everyone did pretty well with the first two parts, but this last one is a bit more bumpy a ride. Exy, you may want to fasten your seat belt for it, along with some others. I?ll try to steer into calmer seas after it?s over. Remember that it?s good practical advice, no matter how far past experiences may part from meshing with this.... ..........AND it MAY even be sound advice from Kenyon.
So I may post that tonight, even if not finished with the responses above. I?m open for comments on this. Some people want me to post it NOW!!! Some want me to post it on some other site. Which?ll it be?
You posted April 25, 2003 10:06 on this thread: ?But, according to Mike, only folks who can understand Wierwillian English have any chance at mastery of the Word of God. Translating PFAL into another language would, according to Mike, render it void of authority and no longer the Word of God.?
I?d say that with CNN and other world wide TV channels, plus the internet, and other factors, English has become the de facto world language. Besides most OLGs being English proficient, most in the up coming generations of the world already know English. Your point has some theoretical implications, but few practical.
"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for my kids!" -- A clueless Texas legislator, during a debate on whether to make Spanish an official language of the state.
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
Actually, Dr did make a big fuss over the PFAL translations not getting it quite right.
At the time I thought it was just his personality and him being crabby. Now I see that he was talking about the need for a spiritual understanding of the class giving rise to a spiritual translation, as opposed to a mere mechanical (and somewhat off) 5-senses translation.
In this distincion between the natural and the spiritual, it was the case that WE were the clueless ones. But not anymore!
When a person is born again of God's spirit he receives the new nature. But he receives this spiritually and it doesn't do a thing for him in concretion, in manifestation in the senses realm, until he renews his mind and walks on that which he receives spiritually. A man may be born again of God's spirit, have the love of Christ within him, but you never see this love of Christ in manifestation unless he renews his mind. This is why the word "charity" in I Corinthians 13 should always be translated "the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation." This new kind of love which is given to us when we're born again of God's spirit, if we renew our minds and put on the mind of Christ and manifest it, is so big that selfishness is utterly eliminated.
You see, in the new creation we were given a new self, a new love. A self born of God, a self like Jesus Christ himself, that he had in his earth walk. We are not seeking our own. They cannot provoke us, and we refuse to take any account of evil. We never rejoice in unrighteousness if we manifest the love of God in the renewed mind. We only rejoice in the truth, in the things that are real. The fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh verse of I Corinthians 13 are singularly and dynamically significant. Charity, verse four, which is the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation, suffereth long and is kind. The love of God in the renewed mind envieth not itself. The love of God in the renewed mind vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, does not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Verse eight says, the love of God in the renewed mind never fails. Isn't that tremendous?
You see, one of the translators translates the seventh verse, which really startled me, he translates it "covereth all things." The King James reads "beareth all things." Young translates it "covering closely," and someone else translated it "cover with silence." I like that. Covers over with silence. What are they talking about? Oh, it's scandal for instance. It's something that has happened that is unseemly. Something that if it were known would injure perhaps a lot of people, might cause a division in the body of believers, might break up a family. What do we do if we have the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation? We cover it closely with silence, we never mention it, and the thing dies there and no one is injured. Isn't that wonderful? It believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. And then the great climax, the love of God never faileth. We should remember this. The agapao, the new kind of love which is in our spirits which we have renewed our minds to in manifestation, this new kind of love never goes into bankruptcy. The red flag is never seen flying over its dwelling. Here is where love holds sway and rules. It's not just "queen for a day," it is queen for a lifetime because this has gained, the ascendancy.
In I John 4:4 we read, "Ye are of love, my little children, and greater is love in you than hatred and bitterness that is in the world." When I read this and I studied it and I worked it so that it became manifested in the renewed mind, my spiritual life and my natural life in the senses realm entered a spiritual dynamic. I began to take a diagnosis of my heart life, I began to investigate love's realities and possibilities. I saw that I Corinthians 13:1-4 was a sort of resume of the failure of men walking with the renewed mind. "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels," which is the highest manifestation of the achievement of the born-again spirit of God as a man renews his mind and speaks in tongues, but he writes across it, "if I have not love (the love of God, in the renewed mind in manifestation), I am become as sounding brass or a tinkling or clanging cymbal." Nothing wrong with speaking by the spirit, speaking in tongues, speaking with tongues of men or of angels, nothing wrong with it. But it's me. I am become a sounding brass or a clanging or tinkling cymbal. My linguistic ability spiritually is but a noise, a jangling, unharmonious discord. Then if I have all knowledge and know all mysteries, and if I had all faith, believing, so that I could remove mountains, it would be tremendous, but if I have not love, nothing wrong with the manifestations of the spirit, but something wrong with me. I am nothing. And if I had all knowledge, so great that the universities would honor me with all the doctor degrees, and he says it softly and tenderly when he says, but have not love, I am nothing.
This is God's clinic, ladies and gentlemen. This is the most heartsearching thing that the human individual will ever have to face. He can get born again of God's spirit in a moment of time, in the twinkling of an eye, for as it declares in Romans 10:9-10, "If thou wilt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." The new birth occurs in a moment of time, in the twinkling of an eye.
But what about the walk? What about the manifestation of the love of God in the renewed mind in the senses realm? This is a lifetime. This is a walk of victory, this is a walk of glory. This is something you have to discipline yourself to, day after day and week after week. You see, this most heartsearching thing that the human has to ever face is how to walk in love once he has the love of Christ. I simply stand amazed in the presence of the integrity and accuracy of God's Word here in I Corinthians 13. I can see now that scholasticism, culture, everything that modern facilities have given us, travel, music, art, all are of no value unless love, this new kind of love, the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation, dominates my life. When at the end of the list, if that is all I have, without love, I go to my Maker empty- handed. I am a failure.
You see, the new creation, the new birth in manifestation is the only solution. This new creation, created in love, created in Christ Jesus, is the workmanship of God in Christ. God made the first man out of the dust of the earth, the second man He made out of Himself. The first man is of the earth, earthy. The last man that He made was created out of righteousness and true holiness and reality, out of the very nature of the Father Himself. You see, when this new nature, this Christ in you, is born in there, this is the greatest thing in the world. Why? Because it is God's nature imparted to us. It is God working in us. It is God doing that which is well-pleasing unto Himself. It is God building Himself within us, until His spirit within us dominates our sense knowledge reason faculties, and brings them into harmony with the knowledge of the reality of His Word. Then when I manifest forth the greatness of the love of God in the renewed mind, it makes us more than well-pleasing. It gives to us love's creative genius that fills the very heart of the Father with joy. We become so Christ-like that the vine and the branches illustrate our union. We become a mirror in which the Father sees Himself.
This new love in manifestation has given us a new self, a love self, a Jesus Christ self. The old religion of fighting self and crucifying self is medieval. It doesn't belong to Christianity. It belongs to the religions of the East. We see man through the new eyes of the love of God in Christ Jesus. It's this new kind of love that gives to us genuine eyesight. We can only see the good things. Remember that translation we mentioned about love, that love "beareth all things?" It literally covers closely or covers over with silence all that is unseemly. There is no scandal. There are no old sores to uncover. Love can see only God in us and God can only see Himself in us. We see men's overloads in order that we may bear them. We see men's infirmities that we may share them with them. We see their weaknesses in order that we may give unto them our strength. We see their poverty in order that we may give unto them our abundance. We become Jesus Christ men and women. As a battery is charged with electricity we are charged with the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation. We stay in His presence feeding on the Word until our whole being is saturated with Him. Then we go out and we minister to people. We are lights, like luminaries, blazing a path in life where sin has no part and the misery that comes from sin can never enter. Now you understand what it means to walk in love, what it means to be in Christ. This is the nature of the Father, and this is that life which I speak of as the life which is more than abundant.
The "Christ Formed In You" teaching touches on some of the same advanced concepts that pop up in "The Love Way." There is a correspondence between the ?Christ? formed within and several phrases used in ?The Love Way.?
These phrases have been mentioned before and are:
?a self like Jesus Christ?
?Jesus Christ like?
?a love self?
?a Jesus Christ self?
?Jesus Christ men and women?
I describe this topic as "advanced" for a few reasons. One is that this ?Christ? within (a la Gal.4:19) is NOT the same as the familiar foundational topic ?Christ in you the hope of glory.? The Col.1:25 type of ?Christ in? is pneuma hagion, holy spirit, the gift that does not affect the mind, because this ?Christ in? is in the spirit category, while the mind is in the soul category.
?Christ in you the hope of glory? is a free gift, requiring believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised him from the dead. Prior to this believing, people receive this gift with a nautili man?s mind. After this believing it?s STILL a natural realm oriented mind. This Christ is created in a man.
Christ FORMED within the mind is something spiritual happening in the natural realm. This Christ is formed and grows in a renewed mind according to the accuracy of God?s Word. This Christ formed within is the new man, the self like Jesus Christ, It?s Jesus Christ like, it?s a love self, a Jesus Christ self, and it?s found only in Jesus Christ men and women. This Christ is FORMED within a man?s soul.
This new man is advanced. He?s God?s REAL masterpiece. From the 5-senses perspective, receiving pneuma hagion where there was none before is a masterful stroke of grace on God?s part. But the 5-senses view cannot contain the advanced Christ Formed. From God?s perspective, the REAL masterpiece is this Christ formed in the soul. It's the NEW spirit mentioned in the "Are You Limiting God?" chapter in the Blue Book.
The advanced Christ formed within fits well (while Christ in the hope does not) with this phrase from Part I of ?The Love Way? posted last week: "Your spirit must have the privilege of meditating in the Word." This indicates that it's not "pneuma hagion" Dr is talking about, but the "spirit of God" that's born into the SOUL category, a different, later process from that created spirit we were first taught. This spirit is capable of "meditating" in the Word, a mental process, not in the spiritual category of holy spirit. This advanced Christ formed within is the NEW man, and the NEW spirit. It?s one notch away from the spiritual body.
Notice also from Part I of ?The Love Way? above that the REAL man is described as "your spirit." Again this can't be pneuma hagion, but something even bigger. This spirit is fed by the Word, not SIT.
One thing for meditation I see in this last Part III is the repetition of a phrase that pertains to our situation here. Here are the sentences containing the repetition.
?This is God?s clinic, ladies and gentlemen. This is the most heartsearching thing that the human individual will ever have to face.?
?You see, this most heartsearching thing that the human has to ever face is how to walk in love once he has the love of Christ.?
I forgot to mention another big reason why this is an advanced topic.
It?s simply because we never got down to really master PFAL and the mind of Christ that God had Dr put into written form for us. We were taught ?Christ Formed...? several times, but we weren?t quite ready to understand it any more than a surface 5-senses glossing over. It was just too advanced a concept for us (OLGs) to learn, due to our pride at having ?arrived? at sufficient enlightenment by the 1980?s.
Now that we OLGs have had 20 years to see that our own ability to bless people is almost completely snuffed out compared to what was happening in the 1970?s, we are less smug. We?ve had 20 years of failure to learn the ?other? six manifestations, most of which are to super bless others, yet our progress, if any, has been backwards. We?re in a very good position to get meek to learn again by coming back to this Word.
Wierwille on "Charity" ( in reagards to 1 Corinthians 13:7)
quote:
You see, one of the translators translates the seventh verse, which really startled me, he translates it "covereth all things." The King James reads "beareth all things." Young translates it "covering closely," and someone else translated it "cover with silence." I like that. Covers over with silence. What are they talking about? Oh, it's scandal for instance. It's something that has happened that is unseemly. Something that if it were known would injure perhaps a lot of people, might cause a division in the body of believers, might break up a family. What do we do if we have the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation?
Interestingly, Wierwille does not say who these translators are except for Young. Wierwille quotes Young as translating this part of verse 7 as "covering closely". Well. let's see what Young's translation really says.
1 Cor 13:7 (Young's Literal Translation)
quote:
7 all things it beareth, all it believeth, all it hopeth, all it endureth.
Well, what Wierwille says he does is not even close to how Young translates "beareth" in verse 7. - And what other "translator" is he talking about? No translation that I could find, translates this verse anything like "covers with silence".
So where does Wierwille get this from? He get's it from Strong's. But it is not from a "translation" as he eroneously states.
The word in question is the Greek "stegei" - a form of "stego" . Here is how Strong handles this word.
1) deck, thatch, to cover
a) to protect or keep by covering, to preserve
2) to cover over with silence
a) to keep secret
b) to hide, conceal
1) of the errors and faults of others
3) by covering to keep off something which threatens, to bear up against, hold out against, and so endure, bear, forbear
Wierwille, in his quest to keep scandal, and errors/faults in TWI silenced and covered-up, jumps on Strong's # 2A-1,2 in spite of the other more common usages, which he makes no mention of. Clearly to VPW, and probably to Mike, this mostly refers to covering up and silencing Wierwille's faults and Wierwille's scandalous behavior (and those of his trusted lackeys). Also take note that Wierwille himself had no problem whatsoever uncovering the faults of others. This is hipocracy in it's highest form. - foisting an interpretation of scripture in order to effect the silencing and coverering up of own's own scandalous and harmful behavior.
Wierwille even says, " We cover it closely with silence, we never mention it, and the thing dies there and no one is injured." - the Lock Box explained.
WHAT A CROCK OF CRAP ! VPW was not concerned with the injury to those on the receiving end of his faults and scandalous behavior. His notion was that if the scandal was covered up and silenced that no one was really hurt. Meaning him. Problem is that the "thing" did not die, because after being covered up, and after folks were silenced, the scandalous behavior continued and repeated - again and again and again - as was the plan.
Where Strong got #2A-1 from beats the heck out of me. There is nothing in the context in 1 Cor 13, to suggest that "stegei" in verse 7 means to cover up and hush up scandalous behavior within the church. That is not the context here at all.
A roof is put on a house, not to secretly keep rotten contents in and covered up, but rather to keep outside elements from damaging the good contents it holds.
Mike, how in good conscience can you subscribe to this crap?
Goey
[This message was edited by Goey on April 29, 2003 at 0:54.]
Can you explain to Zixar that this work, ?The Love Way,? of Dr?s quite likely was actually from Kenyon or someone else (like God maybe), so it?s ok for me to quote it extensively. After all, Kenyon always did things only for the glory of God, which by the way, was also my reason ...for posting it that is. I figure with the intensity of the plagiarism charges abounding here, Dr couldn?t have come up with anything on his own because there wouldn?t have been enough time, considering he had to have been too busy looking up things to copy.
Zixar,
After Goey has a word with you, and after you put it all together, can you please explain to Goey how it is I can in good conscience subscribe to posting as to how Kenyon, VPW, God, whoever... had some real good wisdom in advising us in a certain context of ?The Love Way,? that in MOST cases silence (or as much silence AS POSSIBLE) is a loving balance that promotes better family peace. It?s better than the two imbalanced extremes, ranging from tortured inappropriate silence, and extending to indiscriminant publication of hurt and hurtful messages.
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Did you say "get the ball rolling" or get the kaballa rolling...for it sounds like that's your current freak - some sort of hidden, mystical kaballa-esque gnostic esotericism. I'm fascinated with you
Goey
Vickles. This was of course an error on Wierwilles part. Craig straigtend it all out for us out when he taught that Eve had lesbian sex with the serpent. What Adam did is still somewhat unclear but he most likely just joined in with Eve and the serpent because he said "I did eat." We all know what that means. --- Context people! - Context!
Craig's was the "fresher" revelation.
Goey
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alfakat
was that the famous "eat a peach" revelation of big-head loy, from the devil-inspired Allman Bros. album of some 25 years earlier?????
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Trefor Heywood
I remember that we were told not to guess what the fruit was - just because most people assume it's an apple was insufficient authority for it being that.
So grateful for LCM "discovering" what it really was! Hmm the serpent is supposed to be the Adversary right? On that logic Satan is a lesbian! The serpent is not normally a female symbol though. Also did not Adam "love the little woman so much that he just went along and ate of it too"? Now how could Adam have had lesbian sex? The mind boggles!
Trefor Heywood
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Steve Lortz
Mike - In a previous post I wrote, "How can a person distinguish between information that is coming from the holy spirit and information that is coming from demonic sources? Or in other words, how can a person detect counterfeit manifestations of the spirit?
You replied in part, "This question of yours is at the heart of why things went so wrong in TVT and the meltdown and the early splinters, when so many good and powerful people had holy spirit and a lot of knowledge, yet were powerless to handle it. Solving this detection problem would sure be a boon, wouldn't it!"
You also wrote, "Jesus Christ received revelation from the devil in the wilderness... Because he had mastered God's written Word he recognized that these revelations were from the wrong source and rejected them."
You have solved the detection problem, Mike. If we compare a person's or spirit's words with the Word of God that Jesus quoted, and those words don't line up, then the source of those words is ultimately demonic.
Back in '87, when I was trying to make sense out of what was going on in TWI the Lord pointed out to me two passages of the Word of God,
Isaiah 9:16 "For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.
17 "Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for everyone is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still."
Jeremiah 23:9 "My heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the Lord, and because of the words of his holiness.
10 "For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.
11 "For both prophet and priest are profane [hypocrites]; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord.
12 "Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the Lord.
13 "And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal and caused my people Israel to err.
14 "I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorah.
15 "Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness [hypocrisy] gone forth into all the land.
16 "Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord."
The Word of God doesn't say that the people erred because they had not mastered revelation. It says the *leaders* caused them to err. And it doesn't except any. The Way didn't implode because the followers didn't master PFAL. The Way collapsed because it's leaders (including Wierwille) taught their followers by example to practice hypocrisy, to do evil, and to speak folly.
Our hearts were broken because the Way became full of adulterers, whose pleasant places dried up, whose course was evil, and whose force was not right. Because the leaders, from Wierwille on down, were hypocrites.
God found wickedness in the Way, and He is bringing it down. God saw folly in the Way because the leaders, including Wierwille, committed adultery, and walked in lies. They strengthened the hands of evildoers, and they still haven't returned from their wickedness. God is going to make them eat crow, because from *them* hypocrisy has gone throughout the Way.
God tells us we are not to listen to them, or to "master" their writings. Those things make us worthless because Wierwille and his imitators spoke visions out of their own hearts, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.
If a spirit being is encouraging you, Mike, to abandon the Word of God that Jesus Christ quoted from, and to adhere to the words of an adulterous hypocrite, that being is a demon masquerading as holy spirit.
That demon has had a chokehold on your thinking ever since the day five years ago when you decided to close your mind to truth.
It's not too late. That demon will have to leave you if you turn back to truth.
Love,
Steve
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Oakspear
It was a convulted piece of illogic:
Eve ate of the fruit of the tree. People are somewhere refered to figuratively as trees and the part of the person that bears the fruit is the genitalia, and groves are trees cut into the shape of a penis...so...voila, the original sin of mankind was maturbation!
This was in Christian Family and Sex, which had no syllabus, and I'm not 100% sure of my memory, but if it was any clearer than that, I would be VERY surprised!
For a while I thought I was just missing something, but anyone I asked for an explanation just mumbled and repeated Wierwille's incomprehensible explanation.
Oakspear
"We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling"
Henri Poincare
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Zixar
IIRC, he claimed the word "desired" in Gen 3:6 ...
Genesis 3:6: And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
was also the same Aramaic word that meant "to be sexually desired". He joked that instead of an apple, a banana might be closer to the truth...
-->
Our Limb leader disclaimed the original sin segment of CF&S before he aired it. He said there were some things in the segment that were highly questionable, and based on very thin evidence.
How dare he question the Holy Blessed Doctor (praise be unto him)?
--> No wonder he refused to go along with LCM's loyalty ultimatum... 
;)-->
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
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Zixar
Goey: Um, okay, help me out here. If the Bible is just unreliable remnants, why would the Holy Blessed Doctor (praise be unto him) even bother with using them to fill the Holy Orange Testament (praise be unto it)? Surely the words of the Holy Blessed Doctor (praise be unto him) are pure unto themselves and need no support from lesser non-present truth?
Someone has put one of Holy Blessed Doctor's (praise be unto him) handwritten manuscripts up on eBay. How much should I pay for the Holy Blessed Grocery List (grapes be upon it)???
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
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Goey
Zix.
Good question Zix. But we must trust that the Good Doctor knew what he was doing when he included and "seemed" to rely upon these unreliable remnants in all of his writings. The keyword here is "seemed." This is only an aparant dichotomy - AD. (a figure of speech) FOS. which only "appears" to be highlight what is important. Besides this AD/FOS is in the senses realm of our understanding and as such is insignicficant. We really need not ask this question.
I think that a buck, two ninety-eight would be a steal at any price.
Goey
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Mike
So I'm away at court for only ONE day, and you all have strewn all this trash around, and tracked in all this mud on MY CLEAN FLOORS! And I JUST cleaned them, you ungrateful hooligans! If your Father wasn't the creator of the heavens and earth... I'd have half a mind to.... OH, NEVER mind!
My, oh MY! What AM I going to do with you all?
Well you can all just go to your rooms, and I'll have to get busy cleaning this place up AGAIN! There's posts just all over the place, and I hardly know where to begin.
I can't wait to see the day when you all are mature enough clean up your own mess.
Appear soon Lord! Appear SOON!
Well, I guess I got my work cut out for me for a while again. And tomorrow's another day.
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Oakspear
Very funny Mike
:D-->
Oakspear
"We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling"
Henri Poincare
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shazdancer
Mike,
I go away from this thread for a few days, and LOOK what you've done with it! You really let your scholarship wander all over the place. I'm going to have to clean you up...
You said, talking to Goey:
What your "vague memory" is recalling is that there were some early church fathers that thought that JESUS had "invented" the word agape to coin something that had never existed before; however, that has long since been proven to be incorrect, as that word appears in other literature of the period, as well as the LXX.
Wow, I never rely on your vague memories as proof of anything!
Goey,
What's he gonna do with that "data?" Ignore it, apparently. You didn't have enough agape in your heart when you approached the topic. Tsk, tsk.
shaz
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Mike
Shaz,
At least I ADMITTED it was vague memory. Plus I DID show how it could be handled.
This data was not ignored, but it's not been totally accepted either. Just because someone states something on my computer screen, I don't immediately accept it as proved. Even seeing printed in a book or three isn't the final word on a subject.
I take years sifting through these things. This one has been filed away in the appropriate place for future work.
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Goey
Mike, what a crock. Even if 100 of the best Greek scholars in the world presonally showed you how that "agape" was in use prior to Pentecost, you would not accept it, because it disagrees with what Wierwille taught.
But, you did indeed showed how is "could" be handled - with intellectual dishonesty.
Sadly, it is Wierwille and your own interpretation of his works that is your only standard for truth. This is the only "final word" that you accept. Not good Mike - not good at all. It is the epitomy of intellectual dishonesty.
Goey
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GarthP2000
Well folks, it appears that Smikeol is obviously losing his game, as well as whatever bull.... he uses to make it sound ((cough)) 'logical'. Now he is reduced to complaining about the mess we made on his floor and more of his now-obvious dodging.
Face it Mikey, ... you lost.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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Zixar
Geez, first you set yourself up as The Repository Of All True Knowledge™, now you have to play Mommy, too.
-->
Good Lord, why didn't I go into psychiatry? Most shrinks would cut off a leg to have a case like you.
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
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mj412
you said
just because something is printed on a computer screen , even a printed book or three isnt the final word on the subject .
you take years sifting through these things
ok good now listen to yourself. and just do it.
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Mike
I?m almost back to posting replies to the accumulated posts. In reading over the pages I picked out one quick response I can do now.
Tonight I may post the last part in ?The Love Way? and that is the part that has the hottest hot buttons. I think everyone did pretty well with the first two parts, but this last one is a bit more bumpy a ride. Exy, you may want to fasten your seat belt for it, along with some others. I?ll try to steer into calmer seas after it?s over. Remember that it?s good practical advice, no matter how far past experiences may part from meshing with this.... ..........AND it MAY even be sound advice from Kenyon.
So I may post that tonight, even if not finished with the responses above. I?m open for comments on this. Some people want me to post it NOW!!! Some want me to post it on some other site. Which?ll it be?
Here?s the one quick response I can do now.
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Goey,
You posted April 25, 2003 10:06 on this thread: ?But, according to Mike, only folks who can understand Wierwillian English have any chance at mastery of the Word of God. Translating PFAL into another language would, according to Mike, render it void of authority and no longer the Word of God.?
I?d say that with CNN and other world wide TV channels, plus the internet, and other factors, English has become the de facto world language. Besides most OLGs being English proficient, most in the up coming generations of the world already know English. Your point has some theoretical implications, but few practical.
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Zixar
"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for my kids!" -- A clueless Texas legislator, during a debate on whether to make Spanish an official language of the state.
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
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Mike
Actually, Dr did make a big fuss over the PFAL translations not getting it quite right.
At the time I thought it was just his personality and him being crabby. Now I see that he was talking about the need for a spiritual understanding of the class giving rise to a spiritual translation, as opposed to a mere mechanical (and somewhat off) 5-senses translation.
In this distincion between the natural and the spiritual, it was the case that WE were the clueless ones. But not anymore!
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Mike
"The Love Way
V. P. Wierwille
Part III
When a person is born again of God's spirit he receives the new nature. But he receives this spiritually and it doesn't do a thing for him in concretion, in manifestation in the senses realm, until he renews his mind and walks on that which he receives spiritually. A man may be born again of God's spirit, have the love of Christ within him, but you never see this love of Christ in manifestation unless he renews his mind. This is why the word "charity" in I Corinthians 13 should always be translated "the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation." This new kind of love which is given to us when we're born again of God's spirit, if we renew our minds and put on the mind of Christ and manifest it, is so big that selfishness is utterly eliminated.
You see, in the new creation we were given a new self, a new love. A self born of God, a self like Jesus Christ himself, that he had in his earth walk. We are not seeking our own. They cannot provoke us, and we refuse to take any account of evil. We never rejoice in unrighteousness if we manifest the love of God in the renewed mind. We only rejoice in the truth, in the things that are real. The fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh verse of I Corinthians 13 are singularly and dynamically significant. Charity, verse four, which is the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation, suffereth long and is kind. The love of God in the renewed mind envieth not itself. The love of God in the renewed mind vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, does not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Verse eight says, the love of God in the renewed mind never fails. Isn't that tremendous?
You see, one of the translators translates the seventh verse, which really startled me, he translates it "covereth all things." The King James reads "beareth all things." Young translates it "covering closely," and someone else translated it "cover with silence." I like that. Covers over with silence. What are they talking about? Oh, it's scandal for instance. It's something that has happened that is unseemly. Something that if it were known would injure perhaps a lot of people, might cause a division in the body of believers, might break up a family. What do we do if we have the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation? We cover it closely with silence, we never mention it, and the thing dies there and no one is injured. Isn't that wonderful? It believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. And then the great climax, the love of God never faileth. We should remember this. The agapao, the new kind of love which is in our spirits which we have renewed our minds to in manifestation, this new kind of love never goes into bankruptcy. The red flag is never seen flying over its dwelling. Here is where love holds sway and rules. It's not just "queen for a day," it is queen for a lifetime because this has gained, the ascendancy.
In I John 4:4 we read, "Ye are of love, my little children, and greater is love in you than hatred and bitterness that is in the world." When I read this and I studied it and I worked it so that it became manifested in the renewed mind, my spiritual life and my natural life in the senses realm entered a spiritual dynamic. I began to take a diagnosis of my heart life, I began to investigate love's realities and possibilities. I saw that I Corinthians 13:1-4 was a sort of resume of the failure of men walking with the renewed mind. "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels," which is the highest manifestation of the achievement of the born-again spirit of God as a man renews his mind and speaks in tongues, but he writes across it, "if I have not love (the love of God, in the renewed mind in manifestation), I am become as sounding brass or a tinkling or clanging cymbal." Nothing wrong with speaking by the spirit, speaking in tongues, speaking with tongues of men or of angels, nothing wrong with it. But it's me. I am become a sounding brass or a clanging or tinkling cymbal. My linguistic ability spiritually is but a noise, a jangling, unharmonious discord. Then if I have all knowledge and know all mysteries, and if I had all faith, believing, so that I could remove mountains, it would be tremendous, but if I have not love, nothing wrong with the manifestations of the spirit, but something wrong with me. I am nothing. And if I had all knowledge, so great that the universities would honor me with all the doctor degrees, and he says it softly and tenderly when he says, but have not love, I am nothing.
This is God's clinic, ladies and gentlemen. This is the most heartsearching thing that the human individual will ever have to face. He can get born again of God's spirit in a moment of time, in the twinkling of an eye, for as it declares in Romans 10:9-10, "If thou wilt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." The new birth occurs in a moment of time, in the twinkling of an eye.
But what about the walk? What about the manifestation of the love of God in the renewed mind in the senses realm? This is a lifetime. This is a walk of victory, this is a walk of glory. This is something you have to discipline yourself to, day after day and week after week. You see, this most heartsearching thing that the human has to ever face is how to walk in love once he has the love of Christ. I simply stand amazed in the presence of the integrity and accuracy of God's Word here in I Corinthians 13. I can see now that scholasticism, culture, everything that modern facilities have given us, travel, music, art, all are of no value unless love, this new kind of love, the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation, dominates my life. When at the end of the list, if that is all I have, without love, I go to my Maker empty- handed. I am a failure.
You see, the new creation, the new birth in manifestation is the only solution. This new creation, created in love, created in Christ Jesus, is the workmanship of God in Christ. God made the first man out of the dust of the earth, the second man He made out of Himself. The first man is of the earth, earthy. The last man that He made was created out of righteousness and true holiness and reality, out of the very nature of the Father Himself. You see, when this new nature, this Christ in you, is born in there, this is the greatest thing in the world. Why? Because it is God's nature imparted to us. It is God working in us. It is God doing that which is well-pleasing unto Himself. It is God building Himself within us, until His spirit within us dominates our sense knowledge reason faculties, and brings them into harmony with the knowledge of the reality of His Word. Then when I manifest forth the greatness of the love of God in the renewed mind, it makes us more than well-pleasing. It gives to us love's creative genius that fills the very heart of the Father with joy. We become so Christ-like that the vine and the branches illustrate our union. We become a mirror in which the Father sees Himself.
This new love in manifestation has given us a new self, a love self, a Jesus Christ self. The old religion of fighting self and crucifying self is medieval. It doesn't belong to Christianity. It belongs to the religions of the East. We see man through the new eyes of the love of God in Christ Jesus. It's this new kind of love that gives to us genuine eyesight. We can only see the good things. Remember that translation we mentioned about love, that love "beareth all things?" It literally covers closely or covers over with silence all that is unseemly. There is no scandal. There are no old sores to uncover. Love can see only God in us and God can only see Himself in us. We see men's overloads in order that we may bear them. We see men's infirmities that we may share them with them. We see their weaknesses in order that we may give unto them our strength. We see their poverty in order that we may give unto them our abundance. We become Jesus Christ men and women. As a battery is charged with electricity we are charged with the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation. We stay in His presence feeding on the Word until our whole being is saturated with Him. Then we go out and we minister to people. We are lights, like luminaries, blazing a path in life where sin has no part and the misery that comes from sin can never enter. Now you understand what it means to walk in love, what it means to be in Christ. This is the nature of the Father, and this is that life which I speak of as the life which is more than abundant.
...the end
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The "Christ Formed In You" teaching touches on some of the same advanced concepts that pop up in "The Love Way." There is a correspondence between the ?Christ? formed within and several phrases used in ?The Love Way.?
These phrases have been mentioned before and are:
?a self like Jesus Christ?
?Jesus Christ like?
?a love self?
?a Jesus Christ self?
?Jesus Christ men and women?
I describe this topic as "advanced" for a few reasons. One is that this ?Christ? within (a la Gal.4:19) is NOT the same as the familiar foundational topic ?Christ in you the hope of glory.? The Col.1:25 type of ?Christ in? is pneuma hagion, holy spirit, the gift that does not affect the mind, because this ?Christ in? is in the spirit category, while the mind is in the soul category.
?Christ in you the hope of glory? is a free gift, requiring believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised him from the dead. Prior to this believing, people receive this gift with a nautili man?s mind. After this believing it?s STILL a natural realm oriented mind. This Christ is created in a man.
Christ FORMED within the mind is something spiritual happening in the natural realm. This Christ is formed and grows in a renewed mind according to the accuracy of God?s Word. This Christ formed within is the new man, the self like Jesus Christ, It?s Jesus Christ like, it?s a love self, a Jesus Christ self, and it?s found only in Jesus Christ men and women. This Christ is FORMED within a man?s soul.
This new man is advanced. He?s God?s REAL masterpiece. From the 5-senses perspective, receiving pneuma hagion where there was none before is a masterful stroke of grace on God?s part. But the 5-senses view cannot contain the advanced Christ Formed. From God?s perspective, the REAL masterpiece is this Christ formed in the soul. It's the NEW spirit mentioned in the "Are You Limiting God?" chapter in the Blue Book.
The advanced Christ formed within fits well (while Christ in the hope does not) with this phrase from Part I of ?The Love Way? posted last week: "Your spirit must have the privilege of meditating in the Word." This indicates that it's not "pneuma hagion" Dr is talking about, but the "spirit of God" that's born into the SOUL category, a different, later process from that created spirit we were first taught. This spirit is capable of "meditating" in the Word, a mental process, not in the spiritual category of holy spirit. This advanced Christ formed within is the NEW man, and the NEW spirit. It?s one notch away from the spiritual body.
Notice also from Part I of ?The Love Way? above that the REAL man is described as "your spirit." Again this can't be pneuma hagion, but something even bigger. This spirit is fed by the Word, not SIT.
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One thing for meditation I see in this last Part III is the repetition of a phrase that pertains to our situation here. Here are the sentences containing the repetition.
?This is God?s clinic, ladies and gentlemen. This is the most heartsearching thing that the human individual will ever have to face.?
?You see, this most heartsearching thing that the human has to ever face is how to walk in love once he has the love of Christ.?
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Mike
I forgot to mention another big reason why this is an advanced topic.
It?s simply because we never got down to really master PFAL and the mind of Christ that God had Dr put into written form for us. We were taught ?Christ Formed...? several times, but we weren?t quite ready to understand it any more than a surface 5-senses glossing over. It was just too advanced a concept for us (OLGs) to learn, due to our pride at having ?arrived? at sufficient enlightenment by the 1980?s.
Now that we OLGs have had 20 years to see that our own ability to bless people is almost completely snuffed out compared to what was happening in the 1970?s, we are less smug. We?ve had 20 years of failure to learn the ?other? six manifestations, most of which are to super bless others, yet our progress, if any, has been backwards. We?re in a very good position to get meek to learn again by coming back to this Word.
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Goey
Wierwille on "Charity" ( in reagards to 1 Corinthians 13:7)
Interestingly, Wierwille does not say who these translators are except for Young. Wierwille quotes Young as translating this part of verse 7 as "covering closely". Well. let's see what Young's translation really says.1 Cor 13:7 (Young's Literal Translation)
Well, what Wierwille says he does is not even close to how Young translates "beareth" in verse 7. - And what other "translator" is he talking about? No translation that I could find, translates this verse anything like "covers with silence".So where does Wierwille get this from? He get's it from Strong's. But it is not from a "translation" as he eroneously states.
The word in question is the Greek "stegei" - a form of "stego" . Here is how Strong handles this word.
1) deck, thatch, to cover
a) to protect or keep by covering, to preserve
2) to cover over with silence
a) to keep secret
b) to hide, conceal
1) of the errors and faults of others
3) by covering to keep off something which threatens, to bear up against, hold out against, and so endure, bear, forbear
Wierwille, in his quest to keep scandal, and errors/faults in TWI silenced and covered-up, jumps on Strong's # 2A-1,2 in spite of the other more common usages, which he makes no mention of. Clearly to VPW, and probably to Mike, this mostly refers to covering up and silencing Wierwille's faults and Wierwille's scandalous behavior (and those of his trusted lackeys). Also take note that Wierwille himself had no problem whatsoever uncovering the faults of others. This is hipocracy in it's highest form. - foisting an interpretation of scripture in order to effect the silencing and coverering up of own's own scandalous and harmful behavior.
Wierwille even says, " We cover it closely with silence, we never mention it, and the thing dies there and no one is injured." - the Lock Box explained.
WHAT A CROCK OF CRAP ! VPW was not concerned with the injury to those on the receiving end of his faults and scandalous behavior. His notion was that if the scandal was covered up and silenced that no one was really hurt. Meaning him. Problem is that the "thing" did not die, because after being covered up, and after folks were silenced, the scandalous behavior continued and repeated - again and again and again - as was the plan.
Where Strong got #2A-1 from beats the heck out of me. There is nothing in the context in 1 Cor 13, to suggest that "stegei" in verse 7 means to cover up and hush up scandalous behavior within the church. That is not the context here at all.
A roof is put on a house, not to secretly keep rotten contents in and covered up, but rather to keep outside elements from damaging the good contents it holds.
Mike, how in good conscience can you subscribe to this crap?
Goey
[This message was edited by Goey on April 29, 2003 at 0:54.]
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Zixar
Under the fair use clause of the US Copyright code, portions of a copyrighted work may be replicated if properly accredited.
Publishing an entire copyrighted work, though, is a violation of Federal law.
Anybody got the number for the WayGB? They might as well make themselves useful, for once.
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
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Mike
Goey,
Can you explain to Zixar that this work, ?The Love Way,? of Dr?s quite likely was actually from Kenyon or someone else (like God maybe), so it?s ok for me to quote it extensively. After all, Kenyon always did things only for the glory of God, which by the way, was also my reason ...for posting it that is. I figure with the intensity of the plagiarism charges abounding here, Dr couldn?t have come up with anything on his own because there wouldn?t have been enough time, considering he had to have been too busy looking up things to copy.
Zixar,
After Goey has a word with you, and after you put it all together, can you please explain to Goey how it is I can in good conscience subscribe to posting as to how Kenyon, VPW, God, whoever... had some real good wisdom in advising us in a certain context of ?The Love Way,? that in MOST cases silence (or as much silence AS POSSIBLE) is a loving balance that promotes better family peace. It?s better than the two imbalanced extremes, ranging from tortured inappropriate silence, and extending to indiscriminant publication of hurt and hurtful messages.
Thanks, guys. That?ll save me a lot of time.
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