I would have thought the 'wise' choice of action would have been to stock up routinely on shopping day, for ALL foods and drinks. So when minor events happen like the Super Bowl or what-not you already have sufficient supplies laid by.
Re:"nevermind the wisdom that is in front of of your face"
And what praytell, CM, is the wisdom I am mising? That I ought to know better than try to buy beer on sundays where fundy Christians are in a voting majority? I didn't mention it but you fundies have also ruled that all liquor stores are to be closed ALL DAY on Sundays. Force of law. No exceptions. And you think I'm missing (in your words) "wisdom that is in front of of your face"???
You wanta' know what I think, CM? Oh, you probably don't as you relgionists usually are pretty close minded but here goes... I think you will not be satisfied until you have put the whole world under your theocratic Xian thumb. Crush the Muslims and their heresies. Nuke 'em if need be but by Gawd have godly Christianity as the law of the world! The whole wide world! Fight the Muslims and THEIR efforts to make eating pork illegal. Its against the Old Testament after all. Fight the Jews. Heck, fight the non-fundy Christians and their efforts to allow everyone their freedoms. Fight 'em ALL CM!! You can justify it in the end!!
"nevermind the wisdom that is in front of of your face"
Re:"..and there are some highly rational, reasonable logical folks who are religious who i am quite sure are more troubled by what is going on in the name of religion than you are
and are actually actively working night and day to help the world situation."
Highly reasonable folks?? Like the man who was a leading contender for Pope? Click HERE! And you wonder why I am troubled?? Maybe its because folks like you *AREN'T* troubled!! Maybe folks in Baghad aren't troubled over suicide bombers trying to fight the Christian infidels, less than religious Muslim Shiites, less than religious Muslim Suniis or whoever either. Ho-hum. Why get worked up over these things, huh, Sirguess??
Re:"i dont think generalized alarmist reactions to things done in the name of a religion are a rational response...and really only make things worse."
Not a rational response? Tell me then, Sir.. we have Iran supposedly trying to get nukes to obliterate the Jewish state IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. Not a rational response? Am I just being alarmist?? Now think about it Sirguess.. who exactly is hiding their head and not facing up to realities??
Not a rational response? Tell me then, Sir.. we have Iran supposedly trying to get nukes to obliterate the Jewish state IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. Not a rational response? Am I just being alarmist?? Now think about it Sirguess.. who exactly is hiding their head and not facing up to realities??
Hmmmm. I don't follow the political scene too closely, but my perspective on Iran and Isreal, is that Iran tells us (read U.S.), that they are going to attack our *darling*, if we push for nuclear controls over there.
Meebe I've read it wrong, but it seems more *political*, than *religious* ---
Although I don't rule out the *religious* aspect either.
Re:<B><I><font color=red>"..and there are some highly rational, reasonable logical folks who are religious who i am quite sure are more troubled by what is going on in the name of religion than you are
and are actually actively working night and day to help the world situation."</font></I></B>
Highly reasonable folks?? Like the man who was a leading contender for Pope? Click <a href=http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=2006-05-07T141257Z_01_L07736154_RTRUKOC_0_US-VATICAN-DAVINCI.xml&pageNumber=0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13><font color=red>HERE!</font></a> And you wonder why I am <B><I>troubled</I></B>?? Maybe its because folks like you <B>*AREN'T*</B> troubled!! Maybe folks in Baghad aren't troubled over suicide bombers trying to fight the Christian infidels, less than religious Muslim Shiites, less than religious Muslim Suniis or whoever either. Ho-hum. Why get worked up over these things, huh, Sirguess??
Re:<font color=red><I><B>"i dont think generalized alarmist reactions to things done in the name of a religion are a rational response...and really only make things worse."</B></I></font>
Not a rational response? Tell me then, Sir.. we have Iran supposedly trying to get nukes to obliterate the Jewish state IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. Not a rational response? Am I just being <B><I>alarmist</I></B>?? Now think about it Sirguess.. who exactly is hiding their head and not facing up to realities??
<center>sudo</center>
Sudo, how do you expect mt to answer if you use nothing but strawmen after strawman to reinforce your argument?
i was referring to those who are being rational
and to those in the religious world who are deeply troubled by what is going on in the name of religion
...and you refer to those who are a big part of the problem
wft, dude?
arent you a real smart scientific dentist kinda guy?
btw...i AM troubled...and i never said i wasnt
and troubled, not only by the crazy extremists in religion
and the possibility of a worse kind of world war than ever before
but by the extremists who ignorantly paint all religion with the same brush
and what that kind of crap does to people when believed
i am troubled by the way guys like you who reduce reduce reduce the problem to thought-stopping sound-bites...while denouncing religious idiots for doing the same
and to be clear...i was addressing your alarmism towards all religion due to the lunatics
if you cant see that...there is no way in hell you even read what i wrote
and i am sorry as hell for even attempting to help
the way you respond...you seem to have some pre-determined ideology
and are not interested in hearing otherwise
and so i hafta say, that i hope no one buys into your crass reductionism
because there are some positive things trying to happen in the world within religious communities
and by courageous folks who actually live in israel and the middle east and other parts of the world
who are not as concerned about whether they get their beers on a sunday morning
repeat after me...not all religion is radical fundamentalism
Oh, not a whole lot, I guess. So is everything going Ok for you? The economy is doing fine and unemployment is low. I try to keep in mind that things could always be worse. In my case, MUCH worse as things are pretty good. But in a lot of the world, things aren't going very well at all (people are being slaughtered actually in Darfur) and the prime reason is because of religious differences. Nearly always... religious differences. Heck, even within a given religion like Christianity it was Catholic vs Protestant in Europe. And with Muslims Sunni vs Shiite.
So I vacillate. On the one hand religion gives hope and assurances but on the other it makes folks kill others or the very least make people live as one religion dictates. And what riled me up this time?? The fact that a mainstream religion is now joining the fray of the radical religions by demanding legal action and "respect" from secular sources. The Catholic church. Umph umph umph.
And folks here at the Greasespot want to argue with me over it.
As a writer/scholar with my own opinions concerning the origins of Christianity, I find Arinze's views unsettling as well. What's next - setting a bounty on any writer or scholar's head for writing something "The Church" disagrees? (recall Salmon Rushdie a few years ago).
However - the fact that this man did not become Pope may also suggest that cooler heads in the Roman Catholic Church prevailed.
I, for one, think there should be a fatwa placed on the head of Dan Brown.
(kidding)
Seriously, there was a story a few days ago put out by the AP that said that the Vatican excommunicated four Chinese Catholic bishops without process. The actual statement is here.
Bottom line: the news media got it wrong...a slight little detail (which is FAR too "inside baseball" to try bothering to explain here) that completely turned the accurate story on its head.
I'd love to read the entire interview. Because the only quote given in the story that says something about "legal action" is here: Sometimes it is our duty to do something practical. So it is not I who will tell all Christians what to do but some know legal means which can be taken in order to get the other person to respect the rights of others,"
Now, with respect to Sudo and the rest of you, I read that saying that he is advocating that Christians take some kind of action that is within the bounds of the law ("legal means" versus "illegal means") to show their displeasure at the film being produced.
Sounds like an Reuters reporter who either got his panties in a jam or simply got it wrong when writing the headline.
However, I'd repeat: I would love to see the whole transcript, so that I know what was actually said and the context in which it was said.
Of course, it's far easier and more fun to bash the Church.
I dunno Sudo...the first world war, second ww, Vietnam, Korean wars, Iraq even, were not caused because of religion ?? Religion is used as a 'scapegoat' sometimes me thinks.
I have bo desire to live in a theocracy, of any form. THe problem with a theocracy is that no matter which sect has the upper hand to start with eventually the whole thing rots from within.
I dunno Sudo...the first world war, second ww, Vietnam, Korean wars, Iraq even, were not caused because of religion ?? Religion is used as a 'scapegoat' sometimes me thinks.
Could be, however Northern Ireland is to be a handy example; as does Kosovo.
I agree with you that there are reaons other than religious differences for people to slaughter each other. But religion is right up there as a main culprit. Heck, we don't even get that much reported here on some of the lessor known skirmishes. Didja' ever here of the Sikhs and Hindus in India killing each other? This is over and beyond the Hindu vs Muslim killings. Yep.. lots of killing done in the name of religion and as I stated in my first post... I was almost convinced the Muslims were the worst in this regard. Shoot.. they are amateurs compared to the Christians of the Inquisition era. Boiling oil... now THAT'S a way to torture!!
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CM
Yeah that's all you see is religions huh
nevermind the wisdom that is in front of of your face
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GarthP2000
... the wisdom of not getting beer on Sundays, doncha know. ;)
<_<
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dmiller
It's ALWAYS after noon ------------------ (somewhere)!
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dmiller
I looked at the link.
I can see folks boycotting the film --- but taking legal action for *blasphemy*?? No.
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Galen
I would have thought the 'wise' choice of action would have been to stock up routinely on shopping day, for ALL foods and drinks. So when minor events happen like the Super Bowl or what-not you already have sufficient supplies laid by.
:)
Christians fight Christians, Muslims fight Christians, Muslims fight Muslims, Jews fight Christians, Jews fight Muslims, Christians fight Jews, Muslims fight Jews. ....
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Sudo
CM,
Re:"nevermind the wisdom that is in front of of your face"
And what praytell, CM, is the wisdom I am mising? That I ought to know better than try to buy beer on sundays where fundy Christians are in a voting majority? I didn't mention it but you fundies have also ruled that all liquor stores are to be closed ALL DAY on Sundays. Force of law. No exceptions. And you think I'm missing (in your words) "wisdom that is in front of of your face"???
You wanta' know what I think, CM? Oh, you probably don't as you relgionists usually are pretty close minded but here goes... I think you will not be satisfied until you have put the whole world under your theocratic Xian thumb. Crush the Muslims and their heresies. Nuke 'em if need be but by Gawd have godly Christianity as the law of the world! The whole wide world! Fight the Muslims and THEIR efforts to make eating pork illegal. Its against the Old Testament after all. Fight the Jews. Heck, fight the non-fundy Christians and their efforts to allow everyone their freedoms. Fight 'em ALL CM!! You can justify it in the end!!
"nevermind the wisdom that is in front of of your face"
Dang straight CM!!! Screw 'em right????
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sirguessalot
Sudo, i cant tell if you are really troubled by this stuff
or if you simply enjoy complaining about it
but i do hope you figure out someday
that you cant logically reduce all religion down to that which troubles you
yeah...the world is going mad in the name of religion
and may even destroy it
but that isnt the whole story
science and industry have a lot to do with this, as well
religion is NOT some monolithic thing that acts as one
it is about as exotic as a jungle of critters
as is its history
and there are some highly rational, reasonable logical folks who are religious
who i am quite sure are more troubled by what is going on in the name of religion than you are
and are actually actively working night and day to help the world situation
i dont think generalized alarmist reactions to things done in the name of a religion are a rational response...and really only make things worse
curious...do you have an idea how you can better help society in this religious crisis?
peace
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Sudo
Sir,
Re:"..and there are some highly rational, reasonable logical folks who are religious who i am quite sure are more troubled by what is going on in the name of religion than you are
and are actually actively working night and day to help the world situation."
Highly reasonable folks?? Like the man who was a leading contender for Pope? Click HERE! And you wonder why I am troubled?? Maybe its because folks like you *AREN'T* troubled!! Maybe folks in Baghad aren't troubled over suicide bombers trying to fight the Christian infidels, less than religious Muslim Shiites, less than religious Muslim Suniis or whoever either. Ho-hum. Why get worked up over these things, huh, Sirguess??
Re:"i dont think generalized alarmist reactions to things done in the name of a religion are a rational response...and really only make things worse."
Not a rational response? Tell me then, Sir.. we have Iran supposedly trying to get nukes to obliterate the Jewish state IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. Not a rational response? Am I just being alarmist?? Now think about it Sirguess.. who exactly is hiding their head and not facing up to realities??
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CM
Actually Sudo, I think the Muslems have some pretty good .... and even sell it on Sundays! :)
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dmiller
Hmmmm. I don't follow the political scene too closely, but my perspective on Iran and Isreal, is that Iran tells us (read U.S.), that they are going to attack our *darling*, if we push for nuclear controls over there.
Meebe I've read it wrong, but it seems more *political*, than *religious* ---
Although I don't rule out the *religious* aspect either.
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sirguessalot
Sudo, how do you expect mt to answer if you use nothing but strawmen after strawman to reinforce your argument?
i was referring to those who are being rational
and to those in the religious world who are deeply troubled by what is going on in the name of religion
...and you refer to those who are a big part of the problem
wft, dude?
arent you a real smart scientific dentist kinda guy?
btw...i AM troubled...and i never said i wasnt
and troubled, not only by the crazy extremists in religion
and the possibility of a worse kind of world war than ever before
but by the extremists who ignorantly paint all religion with the same brush
and what that kind of crap does to people when believed
i am troubled by the way guys like you who reduce reduce reduce the problem to thought-stopping sound-bites...while denouncing religious idiots for doing the same
and to be clear...i was addressing your alarmism towards all religion due to the lunatics
if you cant see that...there is no way in hell you even read what i wrote
and i am sorry as hell for even attempting to help
the way you respond...you seem to have some pre-determined ideology
and are not interested in hearing otherwise
and so i hafta say, that i hope no one buys into your crass reductionism
because there are some positive things trying to happen in the world within religious communities
and by courageous folks who actually live in israel and the middle east and other parts of the world
who are not as concerned about whether they get their beers on a sunday morning
repeat after me...not all religion is radical fundamentalism
not all religion is radical fundamentalism
not all religion is radical fundamentalism
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CM
Tell me Sudo, just how many religions to you really know besides your own. And I mean since the first one too.
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Sudo
Clay,
Oh, not a whole lot, I guess. So is everything going Ok for you? The economy is doing fine and unemployment is low. I try to keep in mind that things could always be worse. In my case, MUCH worse as things are pretty good. But in a lot of the world, things aren't going very well at all (people are being slaughtered actually in Darfur) and the prime reason is because of religious differences. Nearly always... religious differences. Heck, even within a given religion like Christianity it was Catholic vs Protestant in Europe. And with Muslims Sunni vs Shiite.
So I vacillate. On the one hand religion gives hope and assurances but on the other it makes folks kill others or the very least make people live as one religion dictates. And what riled me up this time?? The fact that a mainstream religion is now joining the fray of the radical religions by demanding legal action and "respect" from secular sources. The Catholic church. Umph umph umph.
And folks here at the Greasespot want to argue with me over it.
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CM
So, religions are here.
What about you? Can you stop them?
What can you do for you to see WHY?
Why not consider a non-religous approach to Truth?
You don't have to pick one, I haven't.
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Goey
Sudo,
If it is any consolation, I am a Christian and I think Arinze is extremely misguided. He certainly does not speak for me.
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TheInvisibleDan
As a writer/scholar with my own opinions concerning the origins of Christianity, I find Arinze's views unsettling as well. What's next - setting a bounty on any writer or scholar's head for writing something "The Church" disagrees? (recall Salmon Rushdie a few years ago).
However - the fact that this man did not become Pope may also suggest that cooler heads in the Roman Catholic Church prevailed.
Danny
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markomalley
I, for one, think there should be a fatwa placed on the head of Dan Brown.
(kidding)
Seriously, there was a story a few days ago put out by the AP that said that the Vatican excommunicated four Chinese Catholic bishops without process. The actual statement is here.
Bottom line: the news media got it wrong...a slight little detail (which is FAR too "inside baseball" to try bothering to explain here) that completely turned the accurate story on its head.
I'd love to read the entire interview. Because the only quote given in the story that says something about "legal action" is here: Sometimes it is our duty to do something practical. So it is not I who will tell all Christians what to do but some know legal means which can be taken in order to get the other person to respect the rights of others,"
Now, with respect to Sudo and the rest of you, I read that saying that he is advocating that Christians take some kind of action that is within the bounds of the law ("legal means" versus "illegal means") to show their displeasure at the film being produced.
Sounds like an Reuters reporter who either got his panties in a jam or simply got it wrong when writing the headline.
However, I'd repeat: I would love to see the whole transcript, so that I know what was actually said and the context in which it was said.
Of course, it's far easier and more fun to bash the Church.
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allan w.
I dunno Sudo...the first world war, second ww, Vietnam, Korean wars, Iraq even, were not caused because of religion ?? Religion is used as a 'scapegoat' sometimes me thinks.
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dmiller
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templelady
I have bo desire to live in a theocracy, of any form. THe problem with a theocracy is that no matter which sect has the upper hand to start with eventually the whole thing rots from within.
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Galen
Could be, however Northern Ireland is to be a handy example; as does Kosovo.
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allan w.
Northern Ireland is actually more about which side still wants the British army there and which side doesn't.
As I said, 'scapegoat'.
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Sudo
Allan,
I agree with you that there are reaons other than religious differences for people to slaughter each other. But religion is right up there as a main culprit. Heck, we don't even get that much reported here on some of the lessor known skirmishes. Didja' ever here of the Sikhs and Hindus in India killing each other? This is over and beyond the Hindu vs Muslim killings. Yep.. lots of killing done in the name of religion and as I stated in my first post... I was almost convinced the Muslims were the worst in this regard. Shoot.. they are amateurs compared to the Christians of the Inquisition era. Boiling oil... now THAT'S a way to torture!!
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markomalley
On edit, why bother?
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