mdvaden

Actually, M D Vaden has not been posting for three reasons. 1. gscafe is an okay place to visit, but it lacks class in general. I participate on up to 20 forums during the year, and gscafe, overall is the most heavy - a lot of old laundry laying around. It's fairly noticeable at the first exposure. Maybe the old dogs in here get used to it. But, maybe some people need to get away from the same old story for a few months and come back for a fresh perspective. Me... I'm just not around this much negative demotional conversation. Take the Oregon landscape board or the landscapers association here for example. Nobody at any of those meetings spends much time at all talking about who they think is bad in the industry. The newsletters primarily focus on positive pruductive information. And it's obvious at the first visit - first exposure - and continually thereafter. 2. I bought an animation program that I've been fiddling with for several days. 3. Finally, I've got a figures of speech and studies pages intitiated and linked from my articles page. So when you really get down to it - I have a lot of fun and positive stuff to do, including moderating a pruning forum for a Pacific NW gardening site. Last week, I noticed that I had 400 posts on an arborist forum after 2 years. When I looked in here, it was amazing that some people have 4000 posts by their name. Seeing how this forum mainly goes over the same basic topics, I can't imagine posting more than about 4 more times in 2005. I figure, about all I can say is the facts. What I believe, how well things are going for me, and where I stand. Other than that, posting would become like a broken record. Anyway, most of you have been hospitable, so I wish you well until next time, whenever that may be. Landscape season is kicking into gear, so I may be off forums a lot anyhow. I may even drop moderating for the one - I already left a subtle message last month. Godspeed. PS - THE FOLLOWING POSTS ILLUSTRATE : - )

No, I'm not mixing. It's likely you read my posted replies, and if you did, you will be aware I know there are two separate aspects and ideas here. It's not like any one person on the forum has an exclusive right to discuss multiple issues. So what you said is nothing new to me. Is it new to you? Did your read all my posts in this thread intirely. If so, then it should not be news that I made a distinction between a set of keys to walking by the spirit and the quality of a believer that would walk by the spirit. It still changes little. It's a rare day an individual is walking by the spirit when violating the qualities I mentioned or others of that nature.

Yes. Eons. In respect to what is available compared to biblical transitions, it's eons. Jesus Christ's ministy after the holy spirit descended like a dove until he ascended was far less than 5 years, but look at the transition, teaching and outreach that occured. In Acts, the Word moved all over "Asia" - a portion of the world in the space of less than 3 years. So when we evaluate or bring up the bygone effects of a person whose administrative control has vanished several years ago or more, that's a story getting gray hair. At that age of story, I tend ot jump a bit further and just read about Dale Carnegie, General Yeager or Lewis and Clark from the book Undaunted Courage.

Yes, the one's typically in a list. Many good ones in the list. Sometimes those overshadow plain common sense living a clean edifying Christian lifestyle. I do like the record about Samuel where God keeps repeating to him. It could have been years longer to read that section had it not been taught to me.

Wow. Stress. Thats' sad to hear. We don't see any stress. So you are saying that in the Way International fellowship you attend right now, there is stess on you to do that stuff? You said "LCM" Do you mean the previous clergy from eons ago? That LCM? I've forgotten most of anything he said. It's rare to even hear his name anymore let alone what he said. About the only recording I have with him is the Athletes of the Spirit video in our overstock cabinet. Didn't really want to oust the recording.

OutandAbout posted that... That is a very cool thing - keys to walking by the spirit. In one way of looking at it; there may be dozens of keys. And when we look around so-called Christians, those that profess to be spiritual, those keys - maybe call them qualities - seem very hard to find. For example: *Speech with grace. *A word fitly spoken. *Seeking not the higher seat, but the lower. *All things done to edification. *Seeking not her (his) own. *Rejoiceth not in iniquity. *Vaunteth not. *Turneth wrath with a soft answer. *Stirreth not strife as a wrathful man. *Is iron sharpening iron. *Not hasty in words (having more hope than a fool). *Uttereth not thier entire mind (but is wise). It's hard to imagine a Christian walking by the spirit without those keys to living. Take the "stirreth strife" one. Some people specialize in keeping negatives and problems and sins and shortcomings stirred. All the stuff they can accumulate, even the facts; they make sure it's in clear view and doesn't settle into the dust. That's the trademark of that particular nature of individual. The grace in speech one is fairly easy to spot, or not. That involves ettiquette as well as edifying speech.

Nope. Not required reading. I believe it's been mentioned twice within our fellowship since it's been up and running. Once was in reference to something that was on it, more so than the general fact that the site was there. It's one of the various things the ministry has available for people to pick and choose from. In our case, we dropped buying two way magazine subscriptions, or three, about 5 years ago. It seems it was suggested for husband and wife to have their own copies years back, but we just utilize the one subscription which is plenty for our needs. For years now, I don't recall anyone in our branch talking about multiple subscriptions or required reading lists. Did you find a transscript about "required" stuff, or is that just a guesstimation? All I know is life is easier and easier because our family just keeps choosing what we want to have available to ourself. If I've run late on Sunday Service subscription payment, I never see any kind of memo inserted anymore telling me how to do it better. It's simply up to me. I pay and I receive. Or I don't and that's the way it is.

A Skyrider quote... Myself, I don't believe in "insulation" in any portion of service or fellowship... FROM EZEKIEL 8 Ezekiel 8:7-17 And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall. 8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall : and when I had digged in the wall , behold a door. 9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here. 10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about. 11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up. 12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth. 13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do. 14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. 15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. 16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. 17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.

This was off Thomas Heller's post... Actually, I don't operate according to one verse only for a witness, verification or standard? Do you? Anyhow, there is more in the word, including the old testament reference for diligently inquiring. That involves more than witnesses. The witnesses is one standard the word set forth. But "diligently inquired" will overlap with letting the "peace of God rule". And that's going to mean that each situation's diligent inquiry will be unique. One thing it probably won't mean is believing anonymous witness over the internet.

Many people on this forum appear to declare that they once believed what they now dismantle into parts the hold to, and parts they correct. If you are like that - believed teaching and practices 10 years ago, 20 years ago, but different now; will you change again? If that set of shoes fits you, then years back, you may have been convinced your were right. And now, believe differently - that you are more right now, and were more wrong then. Decieved then, but in-the-know now. Should that be the case, or close, do you ever wonder if 5 years will pass, and you will look back on today, as today you look back on "yesterday" (the other years)??

This thread is part of a big picture on these forums. I get the impression that a few people respected VPW but that many people thought he had something sneaky up his sleeve. Best I can tell, 98% of his class is correct. A vast majority. Maybe it seems like a lot of error because if he covered a 1000 verses and 2000 comments, even 50 aspects pointed out by people in a contradictive way would seem like a lot if that portion was rehearsed again, and again, and again. My curiousity lies less in where people disagreed because that can't amount to too big of a mountain. But how many people believe he was an energized minister for God with a pure-hearted ministry? Because, I gather from the Word that Apollos was quite a man, yet needed some doctrinal correction - expounding more clearly. In the aftermath of his teaching, I wonder what people dwelt on - his errors, or just moved on. There's at least two ways to go after a man's teachings. One thing must be made clear though, from where I'm at. Since 1983, I've heard reams and scores of complaints and accusations against Dr. Wierwille. But really, I never saw any evidence of someone proving ACCORDING TO THE WORD that he was corrupt in any way. The Word does have a standard and verses about how to verify something bad, but also yet about how and why to conceal certain kinds of bad.

Do you guys get this Dr. Laura that counsels people over the radio? Is that just here in Oregon, or farther away? She is very smart, and has a lot of good principle. What stood out one day, was a certain conversation. She told a caller that it was foolish to counsel the person or advise them based off talking to that one individual, without having another person involved. She said basically stated it was not possible to handle a 2 person problem with only one side of the story. I suppose it's like determining that money is genuine without examining all the aspects. After a couple of weeks of listening to the show, it hit me, most of this lady's counsel is about mulitiple person problems; giving advice to one person with only that person's side of the story. Do you have anything like that in your area, and what do you think about that form of counseling?

You tell me. Today, what is being taught in TWI? I'm not going to say it's right or wrong, or how much I agree with or not. For example, I can't criticize the Catholic church, because honestly, I have not stepped foot in their door. For all I know, they can be teaching the truth and changed. I doubt it, but yet, I would put myself in a very embarrassing situation to criticize them. Some one might ask me "M_ario, why do say that about them?" And I, would stutter and say, you're right. I don't like them, or go where they are at. But to be honest and real, I have no idea what they are teaching currently. I mean, if someone has a seat in there to witness, or tape recorded teachings, then groovy. I guess they heard enough to form an opinion. If not - then it's reasonalble to acknowledge lack of awareness about TWI doctrine and that you just disagree.

Have you seen the post I put in the thread about Jesus teaching with words that were not true nor backed by scripture? Now I forget what thread it was in. Seems it was in a PFAL related one. But I was curious how people would have talked about or responded to Jesus teaching phrases that were false and unbiblical to get people to rise up in knowledge. So about Jesus, he also maintained and protected and used the system he was in for a long time. What's the response to Jesus Christ for operating that principle? What's the response to Samuel, or even his mother for handing over to that particular spiritual household. Bigger subject. And most people just nibble at what they think are the safe and useful parts of this kind of stuff. I just never see them bring those verses and a lot more into the picture. There is no subject we see that is new. What's interesting is how far into the depths the discussions go. What verses get included? What verses get avoided?

Yes, rascal... Good train of thought to progress on. People died now, during and before anyone in TWI. So it's not TWI's doctrine that steals, kills and destroys. It's the devil's doctrine that steals kills and destroys. That's a good subject to view in light of the difference between a counterfiet and genuine. Not referring to TWI, you or the Catholics, etc.. The devil's doctrine kills. People also died fighing in WW II. Was the command or job wrong? So the results can't be used to justify or condemn the means. Is it false because the Word says so? Or is it false because people got consequences? And who is to judge whether or not their complicated thoughts contributed something we cannot see. That's why I like the level of the Word better than the level of judging denomination.