A la prochaine

HCW, How's come you're the only one in running shoes? :D--> And your socks are so neat and tidy...pulled up that way !!! :D--> Lovely pic by the way.

HCW, Thanks for telling us this was Rochelle. I assumed it was...but wasn't sure. OK...you asked, so I'm gonna have to say. Yes, I have felt snubbed. I thought it was because HCW ... you and I got off on the wrong foot in the chat room the night before you decided to post this story. So, I didn't want to say anything and figured you had enough to deal with on this thread. And, I also thought it was because I felt that what some of what Satori had to say had some validity to it. I figured I was just on the poop list. Not the first time I guess. I wasn't hurt, just puzzled I suppose. I'm not the 'in your face' kinda poster, so I shy away from harsh, confrontational posts. I don't engage in those sorts of battles here on GS or in my life if I can avoid it.

Sky, Wow! They sure were running scared! Thanks for straightening the dates out for me about the P*narello's. But I thought they too sorta' took off in the night? Maybe I'm confusing them with the rest of the chicken ....s who couldn't take the heat! Ya they sure were good at dishing it out but they certainly couldn't take it!

Ma Belle, Wonderfully stated!!! Work of art!

That's it Excie. WW posted earlier that is what she is doing.

HCW, You are weak. What a thing to say to you guys. How humiliating. They didn't even have the balls to tell it to your faces. I'm sure for Rochelle that was a huge blow to her self esteem. If she was already battling with these issues to begin with, now it's re-inforced by those she trusts and 'thinks' she is loved by. I know how sensitive I can be and it would be one thing for Donnie to think well of me as he did with you guys on lead 104, but to have to go back to the campus and face those who are not convinced, that would be another thing. And regarding the accident ~ I'm sure in her mind she played the broken record...Where was my believing?

Oldiesman, What a wise choice you made. After I left the corps...I then married a corps grad a year later. We of course had been engaged way before I ever entered the corps. We are still very happily married after 21 yrs of marriage. :D--> Now, I remember right before we got the boot, LCM had started to put the pressure on those who were spouse corps to re-enter and do the way corps program. I NEVER EVER thought for one moment I could ever go back. I knew from the bottom of my socks that that would kill me. Glad we got the boot. Actually, the fact that we did not make any arrangements to re-enter the program was one of the main reasons they said for dropping us from the corps in the first place. It was a few months later that we actually got the boot from TWI.

Sky, Did not L*rry & C*nnie P*narello pretty much leave in the night from TWI? I think it was the year 2000.

Scout, Ditto what Excie said. Whenever things went out of the 'norm' in TWI, right away leaders and other nazis deemed that person 'weak' of believing or even worse 'possessed'. I had a woman in my fellowship who suffered from depression for years. She had the class many many years before, was a pretty faithful follower but nothing seemed to help. Finally, on the phone with her one day, while she was in tears and nothing I said seemed to solice her, I realized that I was not equipped to handle this problem. She had told me that her Dr. had recommended a month treatment at a certain hospital. I said to her...go...go now!!! So she went. She came back a changed person. A person who was able to control her mind and no longer suffered from this painful depression. She was put on medication and was a joy to be with. I want to tell you that I thought that was the best thing that person ever did for herself! But the sad part was that other leaders/corps didn't see it that way. Again, 'she is weak' was the general consensus. Rochelle, I am sure, hid all her pain...because of the same 'thinking' propounded in TWI and ESPECIALLY in the way corpse. Sad, I feel sad. :(-->

I knew many Irish in the 12th corps. Their rebel ways fit right in with mine. Joe Callan was a complete nutbar...we had a wonderful time together. Barbara Moorehead as well. She was Irish. Trevor Ballantine was from Northern Ireland...the only one in the 12th...the others were from the south ... is that what they call the Republic of Ireland? David Grimsditch was English. Had studied at Oxford I believe. He did spend some time in Chile and could speak fluent Spanish and he was pretty versed in French as well. David contracted some disease while he was in residence his last year (I think?)and I believe he ended up in a wheel chair. A very very sad story. I have no idea what TWI did at the time to help him. But I think he ended moving back to England with his parents.

Rascallion, I knew in the bottom of my heart that that could not possibly God's will, yet I still struggled to fit in. I had so much shame as well. Not a nice place to live.

I want to add that I was not suicidal though when I left. And I believe that the only reason I wasn't is because I had seen first hand the cruelty of those leaders. I knew in the bottom of my heart that THAT had nothing to do with God...I didn't care what they promoted that program as. Their actions spoke much louder to me than their words. And, as far as I was concerned, if that's what I had to do to become a leader, NO THANK YOU!! I didn't have in me to be that cruel. I just couldn't see God saying, 'YES, this is what a servant of God is supposed to do to his people, pummel the dang outta' them!' God is cool!

Cute story Sky! :D--> I got the boot...but it was an agreed upon dismissal. I fought with the leaders that BE to try and prove my FIREBALLSNESS (see LEAD thread for more details p. 16) but to no avail. There was nothing I could do right. I was always being called on the carpet for one thing or another. Of course in hindsight, I see that they were probably keeping me under close watchful eye and I'm sure they had certain people reporting back to the leaders on the progress of certain misfits or weaklinks of which I'm sure I was one. That to me would explain your post JONNY about the guy who had the RV/beer/steaks at graduation. He was never on their hit list. Probably had some goods on certain leaders and they knew he was a loose cannon and would spill the beans. (just my POV) :P--> Anyhow, what I was saying, I had spent my whole time it seemed fighting and being beaten up. So, by the time it was suggested I leave...I was relieved. I had nothing left in me. NOTHING. NOT A DROP OF ESTEEM, SELF-WORTH OR JOY DE VIVRE LEFT. IT WAS SUCKED OUT ME DRY. Though, I was so relieved that even the girl driving me to the airport said to me, "Gee, I haven't seen you this happy in months. You seem almost happy to leave." Deep down inside I was, yet I thought that was wrong too. --> I was a mess for a long time...trying to sort all this out. Yes and I can tell you that many Corps snubbed me. That hurt me.

Excie, Thank you. Yes, my father had a very difficult time with this. Don't mean to derail HCW from your story. Please go on. Washingtonweather, Thank you for the time and research you are putting into this.

The home-made trailer part intrigues me. As well as (as I ask for the 4th time -->) is it legal to transport passengers in the back of a pick-up truck in the state of New Mexico? OK, the homemade trailer part intrigues me because back in the mid 80's I believe it was, my father was travelling down a highway with a load of wood in a homemade trailer. As he was travelling, he crossed a bridge and there was a bump in the road where the abuttment was on the bridge. When the trailer hit the bump, the trailer flew off the hitch. The load of wood he was transporting (these were small pieces to be used for burning only, I'm not talking about huge beams)tumbled out of the trailer and buried an innocent hitch hiker standing at the side of the highway. The yound man was killed. This was devastating to my father. Anyhow, shortly after this my father had to attend a 2 day inquest and his trailer was confiscated as well as the hitch of the vehicle at the time of the accident. My uncle also was called in as well to testify because he was the one who had built the trailer. I do not have all the details of the accident, but I know that the hitch was tested and retested under extreme stress tests to see if it was defective. It wasn't. Yet, I know for a fact that laws were changed after this to make sure that certain specs are enforced regarding trailers. I'm wondering if any legal investigations were done at the time of the LEAD accident? I realize an inquest is normally done because a life was lost. I would imagine nothing like this had to be done.

Washingtonweather, Well put my friend. Sunesis Thank you. In the lines of what Satori asks at the top of this page... Is there a law about transporting people in the back of a pick-up truck in New-Mexico?

Oaksie, You just forgot to mention the 'weenie'/'weinie' wars.

#1 Way to get the boot 1. Start shouting during fellowship...Jesus Christ is God with an Alka-Seltzer foaming out of your mouth from under your tongue. It's bound to make TWI's headlines...maybe a topic for Corps Night. Enjoy! :D-->

Satori, I think Waterbuffalo was just speaking from the heart. Perceptive yes, but I found he/she was just being honest more than anything else. It almost sounds like you are patronizing her/him. Just my perception ;)-->

HCW, I believe I asked this question earlier. But I was curious... Is it legal in the state of New Mexico to transport people in the back of a pick-up truck?

Satori, Wheeww...you said a mouthful there. Yes, TWI got off on the human sacrifice. I have witnessed this first hand many times. And, "he was at his unholy meanest toward individuals who couldn't (or wouldn't) defend themselves." ...that was me. I assumed at all costs, that I was wrong and they were right therefore never spoke up or defended myself. The only one time I did speak up was when my corps cordinator's wife PL blew a gasket on me and started to yell at me that I wasn't a 'fireball' and that I hadn't proven to her that I deserved to be in the corps. She kept yelling at me about being this 'fireball' over and over. This, by the way was in a room full of people. I stood there nearly reduced to rubble but I managed to say one thing when she was done..."What is a fireball?"... She then said to me, "See what I mean!" in complete disgust and walked out of the room. I was called into her husband's office about an hour later and he told me that his wife had told him that she didn't like the way I talked to her. Soon after that, I was asked to leave the corps.

OM, wake up and smell the freghen coffee why don't you?

excie, 'unbeliever pigeon'...how did you know? do 'believer pigeons' cooo in tongues? or maybe unbelieving pigeons are meant to only dang on believers heads to thwart their mission of moving the word over the world? the other day at school as i was helping a grade 1 student get dressed for recess, I picked up this kid's coat and put my thumb into what I thought was banana smeared on his coat. IT WAS A BIG YELLOW SLIMY BOOGER... I dropped the coat, left the kid and ran to the bathroom to wash my thumb. Grossest day of my working career.

Catcup, I only saw your post AFTER I had posted mine. Funny how we said very similar things. UMMMMM....makes me wonder if we just might have something here???? I'm so sorry to hear what happened to you during your "LEAD" experience. Once again, that outfit surely showed their true colours!! Your incident reminded me of another incident that someone here on GS shared with me privately. They too were on the earlier LEAD sessions but it was in CA. That too was a nightmare. I'm hoping this person will sometime come forward and share here.

HCW, I sense sometimes that you are still feeling bad for what happened that day even though you say you "FELT" (past tense) bad in your earlier post. Accident aside for a moment, what Satori tried to say I feel has some validation. I walked away from TWI with more than a TON of baggage strapped tightly to my back. And most of that baggage I thought was actually part of my true body weight. It has taken me years for unravel and unload bit by bit this excess baggage TWI heaped upon me. After reading your posts here, I had never ONCE considered that you or Kevin were AT FAULT. Perhaps, things could have been done differently, but given the circumstances (Kevin being under alot pressure to fullfil his responsibilities as a LEAD instructor) it was probably only a matter of time before something like this happened. But, the biggest thing I feel that could be said was at fault, was the neglect of the individual's safety. And that my friend, lies at the feet of BOT's feet. As I read your LEAD experience as well as other LEAD experiences here, the most commom denominator is a lack of SAFETY. Either, on the rocks or on the highway, people's safety was put in jeopardy. And, TWI made sure if things did go wrong, they were the first ones to point fingers and say, "What did YOU do wrong?" They certainly had their best interests in mind first...all else came second. If TWI set up a program where they had to transport large numbers of people back and forth to Tinnie, then perhaps they should have purchased a bus to do so. Having some 15 people hop into a pick-up truck, un-secured by seat belts is just ludicrous in my mind. Transporting people in the back of a pick-up truck in my country is an illegal act. Is it in yours? And if it is, I can see why LCM and all others who would be deemed liable, layed very low. If Kevin took the blame of that accident upon his shoulders that is insane thinking in my opinion. But, I do not blame him for that either. The whole system was set up for all fingers to point back at us ONLY. I believe Kevin did the best he knew how, given his responsibilities, his age and the pressure he was put under to perform.