Lifted Up

Two WOW roomies during my interim corps year in Philly in 1978-79, ST and JW, went out together one evening and had quite a spiritual experience as they described to me, in which it would be obvious that some of the things regarding spirits described in this book were true. I say obvious because these two guys would be the last ones to make anything up in this regard. I never saw either one of them after that WOW year (I went through my deprogramming about 4 months after the ROA) , although I later heard that JW was headed to the 11th corps. Maybe I should try friend finder and be more specific (A long long time ago I put out a blurb for Philly WOWs from that year, as there were 28 of us, but I didnt mention any specific names.)

This is another topic I will mostly hold off for now. I will say I don't think there is a simple answer or mold you can create. I also think there is a difference between Christan pacifism and non Christia or non religious pacifism.

This was one of the early books we were told to read...(anything during my TWI time is early I guess)...Whoever has read it and remembers it...what;s your take on it? I will cime in later. P.S. The author is Raphael Gasson.

When they tally storms for the entire basin, they go by maximum strength when saying there were (or are expected to be) x number of major hurricanes, named storms, etc. But in this case, it seems to me the question refers to the strength of the storm when it hits.

From May 16th, CNN... Warren Jeffs His group is described as an offshoot of LDS, which many years ago was described as a cult in the same vein as TWI by my deprogrammers. Of course, in this story it is written that LDS denies any connection with this group, just as TWI would deny any link with CES, CFF, CRF, etc. Best no doubt just to go with what actually takes place, rather than with labels...and this story seems to have plenty of stuff.

Thanks. I should clarify the above a bit, since I got a PM from someone else that ponted out my poor wording. In using the word "ago", I was trying to cover that so much has happened in almost 30 years. But it could imply that I no longer have some of the above. Of course I have not had the TWI life for a long time, but I do currently have the Russian wife and 5 kids, including 4 teenagers.

Hey...first of all, I have a thing about on line impressions...hey, even without the 30 years, I believe we all create different impressions on line that in person. I could go on a long time on that idea but I will hold my peace... But you certainly are right in large part. 30 years ago, a Russian wife ago, 5 kids including four teenagers ago, umpteen budget squeezes ago, etc etc etc...last but not least, a long time ago TWI life and one deprgramming ago. If my chance you are referring to me possibly not being the most talkative or outgoing person around, both of the above factors apply. All the myriad things in life have forced me to become more outgoing. On the other hand, I think there are a lot of shy people who find it a lot easier being bold online. I have a son who is one of the most outgoing people around. I think he got that from his mother, and I also think his disability has something to do with it.

Or in other words, judging by the title of this thread, maybe you should have found a different quote to demonstrate it.

I remember John Zika very well from my 8th corps residence year at Emporia. We were fellow Way C. of E. choir tenors. Also, he was the one on the camping trip when, with all trapped in a barn by the weather, announced he was changing his pants...so , he said, all those who wanted to turn away could do so!

My first trip there in 1976, on the spur of the moment, by myself, was good enough. I arrived and was not checked or in any way suspected of anything, and ate at a one table lunch led by Uncle Harry. HQ was bare of people because so many were at the big meeting at Emporia at that time. But I certainly was welcomed, and wasnt given any funny looks when I walked around some. yes, things have changed greatly since then.

OK, I'm back. Good to see someone else besides me keeping this thread going. Maybe nobody cares, but my e-mail is on my profile. I reveal all in private...first if so desired.

Good question...that is, does anybody remember VPW teaching that? If so, when and where?

Exactly what I meant. The books come up with myriads of reasons why this or that agency, person, or country would have wanted JFK gone, but without any substantial evidence of any of these entities performing the act. As much as I dont see things as George sees, I agree withhim here. (that will thrill him to no end I am sure.) Now...bring on the UFO cover up conspiracy theories. I was watching something on that last night on the discovery channel, and I have seen a ton of it on the history channel.

Obviously conspiracy theories abound, but as one who was around at that time, and in fact stood on the streets of Washington watching JFK's funeral procession, I don't sweat it. I think most of the theories try to deal in negative proof, that is, they say the succesion of shots fired could not have been fired by one person, and the like. I know some implicate the CIA or the mob. But I have never seen any real evidence of someone else being involved. If there are any conspiracy buffs around who know of such evidence, by all means bring it on. My favorite conspiracy theory is that the shuttle challenger was actually destroyed by the self destruct device in the tip of the external fuel tank, which was triggered by the leaking gasses. The reason this has always been interesting to me is that I remember watching numerous slow motion repeats on CNN when it happened in 1986, and remember distinctly the initial explosion radiating outward from the very tip of the external tank. This was not apparent on regular motion replays. The conspiracy being the cover up of said happening. But if anyone with knowledge ever said that theory was out in left field, they should not expect an argument from me. And yes, of course, I remember exactly what I was doing when I heard the JFK news. I was in 8th grade science class tracing reflection angles from a mirror on paper.

Maybe just another reason why our corps was smaller than the 6th or 7th? But that wont work because the two corps after ours were bigger too. Anyway, when you got the letter like mine I assume you got, which said "If we do not hear from you by Christmas, we will drop you", you let them do it.

I agree. Along that line, I think some people who presumably are describing their own experiences, but instead write, this happened to us, or that we were deceived and/or given the shaft, are trying to make their line apply to all.

I think rhino's point was that Pat Robertson was right, in his opinion, in what he said. If this is supposed to be a thread on his presumed lunacy, then by all means bring in other examples if you think his line of peace is hypocritical. But I think his idea hits quite a chord with many people, given the violent reaction to the famous cartoons. Perhaps the majority of muslims are peaceful; I don't now, so I certainly wont argue that they aren't. The problem is that they would then be a really forced "silent majority". The reaction to those cartoons is not the worst I could imagine. Can you imagne the reaction if a prominent muslim denounced...actively... the violent reaction to the cartoons and preached that the true way of their religion is a way of peace? Could a Martin Luther King...preaching the idea of peaceful protests and abhoring violence...come from the muslim religion? I am not denying that could happen; I really would like to hear such talk from peaceful muslims if there are so many, before judging it as a violent religion. On another note, to Allen, is your information about Mohammed reliable, or is it just talk? Again, an honest question.

As long as we are, hopefully, talking about our own experiences, and, again hopefully, not pretending that they apply to everyone, here is mine...without using the words we or us, of course. I was told, before I committed or applied for the corps, that it was a lifetime commitment. No details of anything that would happen to me if I left; just that it was a lifetime commitment to God. The person who told me this was a fellow Indy person, who with his wife were also my PFAL class instructors, and headed the next year for the 7th corps. He also told me the corps wasn't for everyone; that there were ways of serving God in just as commited a way outside of the corps, in ones own field. Of course, at that time (Indy in the 70s) , there were quite a number of medical people in that area.

I have been to several churches that don't seem to do that in the least, including the Russian language church I have been to most frequently. My problem before TWI was that the church I went to (and a few others I sampled) made just your assumption...that reality and the Bible never (not even once in a while) have any connection. Now for some that idea has appeal, but the churches I refer to above certainly don't waste their time trying to prove that idea wrong.

STL, I think I see what you are saying...we should use the same standards in condemming the Catholic Chrch for sexual abuse that takes place that we use in condemming TWI. But I don't agree that the answer is as simple as condemming everyone there. Perhaps it has been wonderful for many. Perhaps thre are wonderful people and wonderful leaders who have helped many. Or are all priests...or a majority even...molesters/abusers? I could say more, but I would rather hear fromsomeone involved in some way with the Catholic Church. I am not.

This sounds like a good discussion topic for the doctrinal forum.

A pretty bump - y ride, WW, as nobody has added to it.

As a non coffe drinker, I do like the smell.

I think I know how you feel. With some important differences on both ends. When it seems like everything is breaking, I somehow remember about enough things that aren't breaking to keep the thought that there is hope (no pun intended) yet...with someone who gives hope. Despair is sometimes forced out by the stark reality that there are some others who directly depend on you. But I think people can be (energized, encouraged, given hope, motivated, made to feel needed, pick all that apply) not only by what they have to do, but by what they can do but havent yet done. Have many of us at times failed to make the difference in someone's life because we didn't "have to"? As for fixing the breaking, I don't have the answers. I wish I did. Still have that picture you sent a few years ago.

I saw a video replay on the ESPN website that showed it pretty plainly. But, more importantly, in an interview after the game, Ed DeChellis (Penn State coach) talked about how the two opposing coaches were together durinbg the review, and each was being pessemistic to each other about what the outcome would be. Evidently they know each other very well and are both class guys.