Lifted Up

WW, I hadnt noticed this thread you brought back until after I made that query on the other thread and my resultant PM to you. So, I may as well repeat it here. Did anyone notice the idea of having to be loosened up sexually ever mentioned, discussed, applied to anyone (LCM or whomever) in the corps or elsewhere?

Alleycat, PM me if you like (and know how) or e-mail me, smile092850@hotmail.com , if you have any interest in knowing more about my deprogramming experience. I just don't feel like tying up the thread here for that again, plus I realized I am getting maybe a little too much into talking about someone else's feelings. Besides, that didnt happen to me until the end of 1979. However, I will be more than happy to talk about it on personal communications.

I agree. And, I don't think you are going to get many...if anyone...even choosing to share such an experience, at least on more than an anonymous and/or non=specific basis. Sharing extreme personal hurts from one's personal life requires trust that you just won't find at GS. Not GS alone, anyway. Of course there are some GSers who know each other well, but not just through GS. Thus the latter part of my quote from Simon is also true. This presents a problem for someone honestly seeking to find out some things about the subject. For, the matter of not owing anything and the matter of trust go both ways. No one owes me trust to talk specifics about very personal hurts when they know me only as a handle. Even giving my real name (which I do in virtually all my personal communicating) by otself wont do it. What does my name prove about me? By the same token, I dont owe an automatic acceptance of an account from someone I don't know any better than knows me. Linda Z some time ago gave very good reasons "Why some don't get the abuse stories". As she said, what convinced her involved knowing someone...outside of GS. But, outside of the idea that victims don't owe anybody anything, Simon's statement of it being their burden to share or keep to themselves as they choose has to be the way to go. For, a grudging sharing wont involve trust, and lack of trust will affect how much the victim shares, and therefore believability, and so forth. Thus, I can't and won't press the issue. Now, for a related sidelight. Not too long ago, someone; I'm pretty sure it was Wordwolf, and I think it was on another thread, mentioned something about VPW trying to get LCM to "loosen up sexually". I would like to get WW or anyone else to elaborate about that statement(like when was it made, etc.) and more specifically that attitude; that is, does anyone know of that attitude being mentioned or being prevelant in the corps or elsehwere? There is a reason why I relate this to the subject of this thread, which I will be glad to share in a personal communication with anyone who wants to know. Simon, that invitation goes to you too, considering we were at the same place at the same time for a while.

I think that view is probably shared by almost (not absolutely) everyone, no matter how many or how few real and Godly things each feels he/she received "in the ministry".

I'll get into that in a day or two, since I saw your post just as I gotta take off. She was 7th. I ran into her at the 79 ROA, and out of nowhere she started talking to me about something, and I dont thhink I had talked to her before, though of course I knew about her experience. ( I was 8th BTW). What I meant and probably didnt express well was whether or not she decided her experience was good after all when she reconciled with her parents, or could it have been her parents deciding it wasnt the best thing to do, or maybe they all decided they still loved each other after all. Thats what I think in my own mind, dont mean for anyone to speculate answers to me, since it is someone else's life I'm talking about.

That by itself doesn't mean that she then considered her deprograming a, well. "favorable event", but I can't help wondering. That was something I also heard a lot about at the time, not knowing that later (at the end of 1979) I would have that experience...one which I did not and do not consider a good method of leaving TWI, no matter how bad the bad. Over the years, I have made a couple of unsuccessful attempts at contact through other people, because I was interested in getting her current view of the experience, no matter what it was. BTW 1976 was the my year of big transition....from pre-PFAL to apprentice corps.

Yea..... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) Thought of you today when a story appeared in the local paper about joint replacement. Here it is, or for at least as long as the link is good... Joint Replacement Story

I must have missed something, besides trying to figure out that sentence"...wierwillw and the classes that taught them..." ...because I have been around quite a while and dont remember seeing Galen post about how TWI was all good or all bad. Galen can correct me if I am wrong, but I dont think he ever said that he despised the corps or that he elevates"wierwille and the classes that taught them". I do agree that if you say that VPW taught some very good things, you can be accused of elevating him, even if you also acknowledge wrongs he did.

Unbeaten and now UIF champs for both years of the league's existence. After having the top defense and giving up an average of 26 points per game during the season, we gave up 64...but the offense scored 72. Okay, well, 70 of the 72. The story from Sioux Falls... The Perfect Storm and from Lexington... Lexington story

OK Simon you are hereby invited to grab post number 100 on the 8th corps thread. Don't break your fingers typing to get it ahead of everyone else!

Pretty close to Arena League rules I think. Some relatively minor differences, mainly on penalties and ball placements after touchbacks, etc....and no rebound pass catching like I've seen in a couple Arena League games. But the field is the same, as are the basic rules. Much of the fun for us (me and my disabled son) comes from being in the front, about 5 yards from midfield no less. We get an occasional football, which we can keep, and have had a couple players wind up in our laps...but we have to throw those back. More fun comes from the team being well run...not just the winning, though that helps, but well managed on and off the field. Just like our basketball tesm, the Skyforce, also generally winners. Our baseball tesm, the canaries, hasn't been winning, but is still well run...good attendance for some reason.

Well, I remember my old roomie as a very hip guy anyway.

As Paul Harvey would say, now page two..... (of that book)..... can I wish you a happy week after birthday???!!! I will anyway. :)

I remember them from HQ fall 1979. Sally was in a 42nd anniversary skit I was also in, run by Cliff Wampler...Joe Wise, Joe Kriston, and Karen DeVincent were also in it. I borrowd something from Bruce for LEAD, and actually returnded it. ( I lost something I borrowed from David Bailey :( ). Of course, I saw plenty of them both. They were in the same trailer as Steve and Suzie Sann, for whom I got to babysit a couple times.

Yea, what Wacky said!!! :) :) :)

RR now is out of commision temporarily...see the prayer thread for him. But...I'm going to give anyone who wants it the 100th post on the 8th corps thread, just for posting. I wont take it unless it gets down there again.

The Sioux Falls Storm is now 16-0 after beating Evansville the day before yesterday. Left is only United Bowl II...the United Indoor Football championship...here Saturday evening. Okay, so it's a couple steps below the Arena League...still, unbeaten means something. It hasnt come by domination either, except in a couple cases like the above, but that was against a winless team. The Storm were down in several games, including Sundays semis...down by 8 in the second half then. Several comebacks have been needed, and they've dome it every time. Last stop is against Lexington, who beat us two years ago in the NIFL championship game, but who we beat on their ground in the semis last year in the first year of the new league. OK, let the "big deal"s start flying.

YES...YES...I know, and my respect for you helps me know you werent directing it at anyone. In fact, the same respect helps me believe the same thing about the person who told me that. But it just sounded to me at the time like it was directed at anyone who hasnt made up his mind the "right way" whether the query is dishones or honest. I'll explain more on you next visit to our great city.

I prefer not to get much into this subject at this time on the public forum, but instead have sent a rather detailed PM to someone who has posted. BUt I will mewntion a cople quick things... Sushi, you're a good guy, and what you say may be true, but it also sounds like a rebuff I got once when trying to find out more about this subject. As if the person assumed I had to be one of the "some" you describe. Also, someone mentioned something about LCM being told to "loosen up sexually." Believe it or not, I think I can understand that happening to someone.

right!

Yea, I know he's not the champ. But he's up there. Worth some honor. :)

I don't know if I would pin dissatisfaction with life only on ex-TWI people. I see plenty of it around. I think we get plenty of "input" (from TV, movies, even hearing others talk) trying to drive us to a "better life".

Weren't those books concerned with disputing the NUMBER of Jews killed by the German Nazi regime? PLEASE correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think they disputed that the above killings happened. A very wide disparity with the "accepted" six million, yes, but still I think the main point was disputing the number. As far as VPW's reason (s) for showing "The Hiding Place", I dont know if it matters much. From my knowledge of Nazi thinking, gleaned from my (plentiful?) WWII and preceeding years studies, I believe the showing of such a filf for any reason would be repugnant to a true Nazi, since the film displays persecution and killing of Jewish people.

Probably not, especially as there would not be any firsthand testimony. But it would be interesting if one could get closer to the source of the statement. As long as I am counting posts, ex, .... 2,999?!

I think you did, Linda. You acknowledged very clearly that lack of reports in the newspapers did not by any means show that it didn't happen. So we are left where we were...we have no account that it did happen, and no proof that it didn't. That brings us back to the original question of where did the statement come from. Groucho has given me an avenue or two that I can explore. It doesnt mean a thng in the least, I know, but Linda, for some oddball reason, I noticed as I read my post that at least for the moment, I have exactly half of your total posts....1,301 versus 2,602. You are twice as talkative as I am i guess.