Lifted Up

Rocky, I am guessing you are referring to the first part of his message. The second part about Hafner no doubt refers to his game winning hit for the Indians against the Yankees last night.

No doubt he is ex-ranger like we are ex-Way...and would surely disavow any loyalty to his old group!

Another notch for the king of the movie trivia. he doesn't need my go sign on this thread but go anyway.

I am so sure that was just well planned!

I must have missed it by a day, so you get to have another birthday! Okay, minues the extra year.

Were you waiting for me to get back?

I may or may not be showing up the next 2 or 3 days so if someone knows the answer, run with it...do as I did, not waiting for Raf to confirm. I thought this would be easy, given there is a clue for people who know about the movie but havent seen it.

I'd better get this out of the way so this thread can sink before it gets too outdated. Thanks to all of you. Funny, even though (in most cases) we know each other through cyber handles, we also know that there are real people behind these handles. And as much as we don't really know each other, we can pick up indications here and there that we are communicating with really wonderful people. Excie, thanks for the memories of singing the birthday song so often at Emporia. After all, I am so sure that's how you meant it. Ex10, you have I guess joined Shell in calling me by name (fine)...I wont take advantage of that!

If "revisionism" indicates the attempt to explore and understand evidence that things didn't happen according to the official and/or accepted story, then why make thata bad term? That process of course is different than the promoting the "things just don't add up' theory and seeking to explain something without evidence. I think an example of the latter is provided by the same Ian Brockwell, who makes a lining out of promoting the idea that the official or accepted isnt the truth, often not by presenting evidence that it isn't, but by merely questioning the accepted ideas with "Do you really believe it could have happened this way?" questions, then presenting his own ideas, again without evidence. An example from a discourse my Mr. Brockwell on UFOs... "Aliens perhaps play a bigger part in our lives that anyone can possibly imagine, let’s take a closer look at life on this planet. It is a popular belief that all life originated from the sea, but doesn’t it seem strange that this theory of evolution can produce enormous dinosaurs, birds, fish and thousands of other creatures (in our ancient past), yet humans, the dominant species on our planet, only arrived a couple of million years ago? How can a new species (humans) just suddenly appear and develop so quickly, unless some “outside force” had some involvement in our present success? I have my own theory on this, and believe that probably all the creatures on our planet were brought here from other worlds, perhaps planets that faced total destruction as Earth will one day. Is it so difficult to believe that some very advanced alien race protects primitive creatures like us throughout the universe? Clearly, if such beings exist, they would have the power to destroy us at any time, but we are still here (despite our continued efforts to destroy ourselves), so this would suggest we may have friends in high places. If we continue to speculate on this theory, it also means that should our planet one day encounter an “End of Times”, there is a very good chance that some of us (not just humans) will be given an opportunity of life on a new world. This possibility and others are explored in the book “Global Warming – The Final Solution”." My purpose is not to ridicule his theory on aliens (you can make your own judgements on that), but that it seems to be a common thread in his writings to present his theories without evidence. On the holocaust, he spends a lot of time on how those who question the accepted line are persecuted, but no time presenting evidence. His explanation as to what happened seems along the same line as his "I have my own theory on this..."regarding how our Earth was populated by aliens, without presenting any evidence. Of course, if his theory is right, what have we to fear, as we are all aliens. Of course, i suppose we could be attacked by other aliens wanting to fight us for the planet. seriously, I find it hard to accept the "revisionism" of someone who makes his living, his bread and butter, by questioning accepted ideas. Not that I am opposed to seeking out the truth and arguing against the accepted explanation when there is evidence to do so. But he apparently automatically has to question the accepted, evidence or not, to make a living.

I agree with you, Rocky. There would have been good reasons not to blame her if she hadn't spoken up as she did. But we can certainly applaud her for, as you say, having the courage to see this thing through.

"What's the urgent urgency? You act like you're getting married." "I am." "Wow." "Yeah." "Is it Melinda?" "Melissa." "Wasn't there a Melinda in there somewhere?" "No, there's only been Melissa since you." "Boy, not much for browsing are you?"

Simon, my forays into the subject on this thread lead from the fact that I am an amateur but very serious student of World War II. That may come from be being the truest of baby boomers, with both my dad and mom being in the Navy during that war. I dont specify in the holocaust, but it is something that I must know about if I am to call myself what I have above. IMO both parts of your question are true. It was Hitler's "thing", but I have to believe he was influenced by past prejudices. He neede to strive, in his mind, for purity, and that had (to him) include elimination of any Jewish influence on the "master race". I am not siding on the numbers debate either, only to the point that it was significant. I do agree that it seem to be emotionally safeguarded, as you say, to the point where suggesting the number was less than 6 million brings an instant backlash, such as when the National Park Service estimated 250,000 people at the "Million Man March". Too much significance is attached to the magic 6 million number by both sides. WTH made such a point that his "authorities" showed the number could be as low as a few hundred thousand, but when I demontrated (I believe) that there was great significance to even those "low" numbers, he suddenly backed of on admitting that those numbers could be right. I have seen the same numbers argument on the subject of using the atomic bomb on Japan, in respect to how many lives would have been lost in an invasion and therefore were saved by the use of the bomb. Both sides stick to their numbers like glue. of course in that case it was an estimate of something that didnt actually happen, but the arguments take the same course. I wont call myself a "hate" expert, and you may get some answers on that subject from others. I wont pretend to know someones inner mind, especially someone in the past, as Robert J. Lifton pretends to know President Truman's inner thoughts in the above mentioned A-bomb decision. But Hitler's own writings, a mere couple of which I presented earlier in this thread, do a lot of speaking for themselves. No, I dont remember VPW mentioning the holocaust during my TWI time, except when I was at Emporia and he was promoting "the Myth of the Six Million" and a couple other books to the corps. By the way, I dont suppose you remember the "Haloween" party we had at HQ in 1979, where I was put up by some of my fellow 8th corps to be the Pope. And I will agree that calling someone anti sematic and/or racist can attach a stigma, and such labels should not be tossed around lightly. In this case, I prefer (as I did do) to avoid labels and let Hitler's writings speak for themselves. Also some well documented information helps, of which I search for in my studies. I agree that name calling "discussions" usually get nowhere. You seem like a person who likes to see and find out for himself (sort of like a certain fellow IRS taxman from a certain skit). If you are interested and have the time, do your own studying on the subject. It is amazing what some trips to the library or even internet searches can turn up, if you have a good eye as I feel you do for what is opinion and what is true documentation. You don't have to be doing PhD research find out very intersting things. I am hardly doing anything original, just trying to be sure I have everything i can manage to see.

Maybe they did...but at least they made a late go of it. And they didnt start with a huge lead. If your watermelon-in-a-pigs-thraot analogy was the Indians that year, I can't wait to see how you describe the mets of this year. And I still wounldnt bet my life savings (if I had any to bet) on the Tribe getting past the Yanks in the playoffs. At least you finally showed up.

"You're going to the hospital" "OK, I'll go, but I'm gonna drive myself." "Honey, your car is in a tree around the corner."

I agree on PB's posts on this thread, David. Maybe it was too civil, though...I refer to PB's response to Oldies you quoted, "No harm in you asking, though. Thanks."

I can give more but i would like to see if anyone has been here since I made my post.

In the respectful tone of Oldies' request and your reply, I must disagree aout there not being a point in telling more. It could only serve to illustrate "the idea you were trying to get across". Now, if there are personal reasons for not giving any details of how you tried to bring up what was wrong and how you were rebuffed, that's another thing. But contrary to what some think, ther are those of us who left (or were yanked) a long time ago, did not see or experience a lot of the bad, and who are genuinely interested in knowing more about what happened.

True, and yet there are so many here who tie the "offshoots" to TWI as though there is no difference. My deprogrammers would have had fun classifying them, since accordning to them the LDS were a cult just as TWI, UC, and JW. Anyway, I wouldnt use the word "offshoot" for those reasons, as I agree, they don't seem to be directly connected with LDS.

We are in fall here with the fall colors brightening every day. leave are starting to come down. Our tomato plants survived an early light frost, and some suny days are helping them to ripen. There is something about the season transition, on either side, that has it over my birthplace, which is southern CA.

OK, let's try one.... "Things go wrong. You can't explain it; you can't predict it. Killing yourself won't bring your dad back."

The victim testified, not only in court, but publically as well, as many have doubtless seen. That surely was a key. Allen Steed has now been charged with rape. Is will be interesting to see his defense, since he testified for Jeffs in that trial.

Finally!!! Somebody hit one of mine. "On Golden Pond" I actually saw the play first. As for the movie, Henry Fonda was a shoe-in for the best actor Oscar, for sentimental reasons plus, IMO, wonderful acting. It wont be long but have to think of mine. If I wait for confirmation, I might wait forever for stunningly busy Raf! So I will riskt eh penalty, whatever that is, if I'm wrong. though I'm not.

That was my AC. Mens branch 26. When we were doing retemories, I held up our branch sign high to get called on. Also during that class, at the end of a break, the camara operator asked me to sit in VPW's chair so he could get a fix or focus or something. The Indy guy I came with, Bill Barton, who was watching the class from downstairs because he had taken it before, came running up to find out if i ws really gonna teach that session! Also from Indy we had Good Seed there for entertainment. And not all of their entertainment was music.

Garth is really a nice guy... despite his name rhyming with "Darth" and he has been around ssooooooo long that he really deserves our fondest birthday wishes!!!

If Muslim leaders heed that English Bishop's call, then my question will be answered without Mister P-Mosh having to bother. However, evidently that has not happened in England or elsewhere.